All Mighty God?

Diem

I think the answer is in this verse

5156 'I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me".

I'm sorry if this is getting annoying, but why??
God doesn't need help doing anything.

the_seeker

Hey guys,
I'm a muslim that has discovered your site and the "God Only" movement and I'v learned a lot of new things and been able to make my faith stronger. I have a question that I'v been thinking about for a while,

If God knows everything that is going to happen, what is the point of creating humans if he knows what they are going to do? What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so whats the point?

salamun alayakum

i hope someone can point to the relevant verses about us having this life as a final chance to redeem ourselves by submitting to the authority of God alone. I remember reading something in submission.org about the heavenly feud. the specific verse of that would be

3869 "I had no knowledge of the command up high that they had quarreled." (Reformist Translation)

"I had no knowledge previously, about the feud in the High Society." (RK Translation)

3869 "I had no knowledge of the High Council when they disputed." (Arberry Translation)

3869 "I have no knowledge of the dispute among the angels (concerning their attitude towards Adam)." (Sarwar Translation)

3869 "I had no knowledge of the exalted chiefs when they contended" (Shakir Translation)

3869 "No knowledge have I of the Chiefs on high, when they discuss (matters) among themselves." (Yusuf Ali Translation)

3869 "I had no knowledge of the Highest Chiefs when they disputed;" (Pickthall Translation)

3869 "I had no knowledge of the chiefs (angels) on high when they were disputing and discussing (about the creation of Adam)." (Hilali & Khan Translation)

3869 Say! ?I have no knowledge of the exalted chiefs of the past when they disputed." (Shabbir Ahmed Translation)

may God increase our knowledge...

peace jedi

O0 ramon O0

belH

I'm sorry if this is getting annoying, but why??
God doesn't need help doing anything.

Peace,
So, you agree that God Saw our Deeds before we were created...okay.
Now, Do you think that God would reward us or punish us without actual deeds.
In other words, would it be fair for God to punish someone based on what He (God) knew about, before creating him ? Such a person would say "I did not do any thing". Thus, it was important for God to create us in order for us to do Good or do wrong, in order to not blame no one but ourselves when judged in the JD.

Salam
Salam

belH

you are not shouting and these people obviously did not watch 300 otherwise they would know this man is the king of spartans

Yes I did; it was a nice movie.

Diem

Peace,
So, you agree that God Saw our Deeds before we were created...okay.
Now, Do you think that God would reward us or punish us without actual deeds.
In other words, would it be fair for God to punish someone based on what He (God) knew about, before creating him ? Such a person would say "I did not do any thing". Thus, it was important for God to create us in order for us to do Good or do wrong, in order to not blame no one but ourselves when judged in the JD.

Salam
Salam

Thanks for the clarification, now I'd like to add to my original question,

God knows all things
God knows the outcome of creating the earth, jinns, and humans
Why create the earth, jinns and humans if he knows the outcome

Now, Do you think that God would reward us or punish us without actual deeds.

Uncreated humans cant ask questions such as the one you posed, as a matter of fact, they cant do anything since they do not exist,

also, if god allows humans to ask him such a question, then do we say that all people who are born retarded, or with low intelligence get a free pass to heaven because they will just tell Allah, "you did not give me enough intelligence to read the Quran or become Muslim."

SwedenMajidah

Thanks for the clarification, now I'd like to add to my original question,

God knows all things
God knows the outcome of creating the earth, jinns, and humans
Why create the earth, jinns and humans if he knows the outcome

Uncreated humans cant ask questions such as the one you posed, as a matter of fact, they cant do anything since they do not exist,

also, if god allows humans to ask him such a question, then do we say that all people who are born retarded, or with low intelligence get a free pass to heaven because they will just tell Allah, "you did not give me enough intelligence to read the Quran or become Muslim."

Peace,

Do I sense an agnostics?

Maria

the_seeker

peace all

agnostics are OK. I have been through this road...asking the right questions can lead you to God Alone.

the more you ask God, and He knows if your intentions/motivations are pure, the more He answers.

salamun alaykum.

ramon jedi O0

Hope

Thanks for the clarification, now I'd like to add to my original question,

God knows all things
God knows the outcome of creating the earth, jinns, and humans
Why create the earth, jinns and humans if he knows the outcome

Uncreated humans cant ask questions such as the one you posed, as a matter of fact, they cant do anything since they do not exist,

also, if god allows humans to ask him such a question, then do we say that all people who are born retarded, or with low intelligence get a free pass to heaven because they will just tell Allah, "you did not give me enough intelligence to read the Quran or become Muslim."

Salam

Well i guess i know what u mean, but there are things which i think it is hard to get a definte, concrete, satisfactory answer for them, Only God knows the answer, and he told us not to to question him, he to questin us.

2123 "He is not questioned about what He does, while they will be questioned."
,
I, myself have questions, which i dont find answers for, i will put them in this forum later. But i think that we dont have to concentrate much on that, cos it may have negative effect, The point is we believe in God, we try to follow his orders, that is all we can do.

P.S. what i wrote is my own personal thinking.

Peace

afridi220

Salam

Well i guess i know what u mean, but there are things which i think it is hard to get a definte, concrete, satisfactory answer for them, Only God knows the answer, and he told us not to to question him, he to questin us.

2123 "He is not questioned about what He does, while they will be questioned."
,
I, myself have questions, which i dont find answers for, i will put them in this forum later. But i think that we dont have to concentrate much on that, cos it may have negative effect, The point is we believe in God, we try to follow his orders, that is all we can do.

P.S. what i wrote is my own personal thinking.

Peace

sun

Alen

Hey guys,
I'm a muslim that has discovered your site and the "God Only" movement and I'v learned a lot of new things and been able to make my faith stronger. I have a question that I'v been thinking about for a while,

If God knows everything that is going to happen, what is the point of creating humans if he knows what they are going to do? What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so whats the point?

Peace,
Respectfully.

No human knows God.
God does what He wants.
Why?
Because He can.

My humble opinion.
God knows best.
Glory be to our God.

Peace.

belH

Why create the earth, jinns and humans if he knows the outcome

my understanding is this
God wanted to create something that can obey and worship him by their own choice-free well. therefore, Jin and Humans were created.

(&#65279 (&#65279
If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one People but they will not cease to dispute (11 Except those on whom He hath bestowed His Mercy and for this did He create them and the Word of thy Lord shall be fulfilled "I will fill Hell with jinns and men all together." (11-119)

Thus, God created them in order to collect the ones who will choose to obey and worship him, using their free-well.

also, if god allows humans to ask him such a question, then do we say that all people who are born retarded, or with low intelligence get a free pass to heaven because they will just tell Allah, "you did not give me enough intelligence to read the Quran or become Muslim."

(&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279

When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say "In what were ye?" They reply "Weak and oppressed were we in the earth." They say "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away?" Such men will find their abode in Hellwhat an evil refuge! (97) Except those who are (really) weak and oppressedmen, women, and children who have no means in their power, nor (a guide-post) to direct their way. (9 For these, there is hope that Allah will forgive for Allah doth blot out (sins) and forgive again and again.(4-99)

God knows who are retarded and those who have no way of knowing the right guidnene; and He, as promised, will forgive them.
)

belH

I, myself have questions, which i dont find answers for, i will put them in this forum later.

I cann't wait to know these questions; please feel free to share them with us.

Peace all

truthseeker11

Peace Diem,

Hey guys,
I'm a muslim that has discovered your site and the "God Only" movement and I'v learned a lot of new things and been able to make my faith stronger. I have a question that I'v been thinking about for a while,

If God knows everything that is going to happen, what is the point of creating humans if he knows what they are going to do? What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so whats the point?

This is one of the questions that have been on my mind also for a while and I have not been able to find a satisfactory answer. This does not mean there is no answer. This question is number one on my list of questions for God on the Last Day !! Hopefully we will eventually find out the answer from God )

By the way, we were not created to worship God according to 5156 but to serve Him, but again this does not answer the question you have asked OR DOES IT? &nbsp (Keep reading and you might see 5156 in a new light ))

I have some counter questions to stimulate your mind a bit and the answer to your question might lie in the answer to these questions

Where does God end and the universe begin?
Isn't God infinite and present everywhere? (2115, 2255, 4126, 4154)
Why did God create the controllers (malaika)? Can't He do everything Himself?
What is the Ruh of God? (1287, 1529, 1785, 3872)

E=mc^2

Matter and energy are interconvertible. Matter is "created" but is just another form of energy. God is the ultimate "energy". So maybe we are "created" in that sense !! String theory points to the same direction all elementary particles are manifestation of the same underlying energy. Still does not answer why the conversion to the "human form" matter and the controllers (malaika) in the first place? MAYBE WE CHOSE THE CONVERSION AND THE FREE WILL OURSELVES, AND THE PART IS SERVING THE WHOLE ) (Remember 5156?)

I am not suggesting we start calling ourselves God. A cell of Diem cannot claim to be Diem and can only SERVE Diem, but only the collection of 50-75 trillion cells that form Diem can claim to be Diem !

There is only one underlying supreme "force/energy", and no partners with it !!

PANENTHEISM http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism
WAHDAT-UL-WUJUD http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahdat_ul-wujud

Something to ponder jedi

afridi220

Even angels knew what we will do here but he wanted to creat us and he did who are we to question him ???

as your Lord said to the Angels ?Surely I am making in the earth a successor.? They said ?Will You make therein one who will corrupt in it and shed blood while we extol Your praise and call You Holy?? He said ?Surely I know whatever you do not know.? And He taught Adam all the names; thereafter He set them before the Angels; so He said ?Inform me of the names of these, in case you are sincere.?}* (Al-Baqarah 230-31)
{And He created everything, so He has determined it an determination.} (Al-Furqan 252)

{And He subjected to you the sun and the moon, both in a steadfast manner, and He subjected to you the night and the daytime. And He has given you of all you asked Him; and in case you number the favor(s) of Allah, you enumerate them. Surely man is indeed constantly unjust, most disbelieving.} (Ibrahim 14 33-34)

{So eat of what Allah has provided you, lawfully good, and thank for the favor of Allah, in case it be Him only that you do worship.} (An-Nahl 16114)

{And do not corrupt in the earth after being tilled, and invoke Him in fear and longing. Surely the mercy of Allah is near to the fair-doers.} (Al-A`raf 756)

{And when he turns away, he endeavors about the earth to corrupt in it and cause the tillage and stock to perish; and Allah does not love corruption.} (Al-Baqarah 2205)

{Corruption has appeared in the land and the sea for what mankind?s hands have earned, that He may make them taste some of that which they have done, that possibly they would return.} (Ar-Rum 3041)

because it is Allah who has created us and so He knows the purpose of our creation. We can hardly understand it ourselves.
Now if we are to look initially into revelation, to determine why was man created, there is a deeper question that we should be asking before that "Why did God create?". This before we even get to man because man is not the greatest act of creation. Allah says

"The creation of the Heavens and the Earth is indeed greater then the creation of mankind; yet, most of mankind know not."

Man is not the greatest act of creation, this universe is far more complex and far more magnificent than man. So the issue of creation should then go to, "Why did God create?", as opposed to simply, "Why create man?".

Fundamentally, we can say that the creation is the natural consequence of the attribute of creator. Allah is the creator. That is one of his attributes. That is what he has informed us. That being his attribute, the creator, the natural consequence or the product of this attribute is his creation
This is the mercy of Allah manifest in his creation. What is also manifest in creation, in the act of creation, the creation of man, is his attribute of justice, fairness, which comes out as the judgment at the end of this world

So if you choose the evil way, you find it easy and you carry on in that way, then that was what you were created for. But ultimately it is your choice. You choose hell. The fact hat Allah has recorded, before anything was created, who would be in hell and who would be in heaven does not change the fact that it is we who choose. The judgment is only to manifest to those who go to hell, that they deserve to be in hell. It is only for them basically. Because if Allah created you, and put you in paradise, with all that is in paradise, and you see those people in hell suffering, are you going to ask Allah, why did you put me in paradise? No. your going to say "all praise be to Allah!" you don?t want to question or to wonder, all you will be is ecstatic that you are of those in paradise. So the judgment is not for you, it is for those who are going to hell. If you happen to be amongst those who were created for and put in hell, you would say, why me? Why did you put me in hell? And Allah would say; because you would have done so and so in your life. But you would say; no, no I wouldn?t. If you give me a chance I would do good deeds. You would not give up arguing.

So Allah has allowed us to live out our lives. So when we stand before him, our book of deeds is spread before us, we know without a shadow of a doubt, that we chose hell. That Allah?s judgment is just. There is no injustice in it, in any way shape or form. Allah says he oppresses no one. We will know that we chose hell.

And the only thing that remains for us, and I pray that it is not in fact us, who are going to hell, is to beg Allah for another chance. Allah says;

"If you could only see when the sinners will bow their heads before their lord, saying; O Lord, we have now seen and heard, so send us back and we will do righteous deeds. Verily, we now believe with certainty."

This is the only response, which will be left for them. Or as Allah said;

"And those whose light scales of good deeds, they ruined themselves and they will be in hell eternally. The fire will burn their faces, and they will grin with disfigured lips, I will say to them; Were My Verses not recited to you, and you rejected them? They will reply; Our Lord, our misery overcame us and we were a people astray. Our Lord, bring us out of this, and if we ever return we will truly be unjust."
"Whoever brings a good deed, shall the value of ten like it. And whoever brings an evil deed will be punished with one like it. And they will not be wronged."

So the creation is a manifestation of Allah?s attribute of being the creator. In the creation of man within the scheme of things, there is manifest Allah?s attribute of mercy, his attribute of justice and this is the reason for the creation of man from the point of view of Allah. From human perspective, why did God create man in terms of for what purpose? Then this is the one we all know and are familiar with;

"We did not create the jinn and men except to worship us" [Surah adh-Dhariyyat, verse 56)

So relative to Allah, we were created in a means or a way in which Allah has chosen to manifest his attributes of creation, mercy, grace etc and he could have chosen another one. But relative to us as human beings, we know that our purpose is to worship Allah. As we said, Allah does not need our worship, a Allah didn?t need to create. When he created us to worship him, he didn?t create us, out of a need for our worship, because Allah has no needs
sun Gloru be to lord

Wakas

peace Diem,

The following are past threads and touch upon the subject
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8696.msg41026#msg41026
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7990.msg16525#msg16525
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13506.msg114110#msg114110

But they do not really answer the question of "why create anything in the 1st place?"

truthseeker11

Peace everyone,