All Mighty God?

belH

Thanks for the clarification, now I'd like to add to my original question,

God knows all things
God knows the outcome of creating the earth, jinns, and humans
Why create the earth, jinns and humans if he knows the outcome

Peace all
In the following link you will find more details about my answer to your question (beside the answer I wrote before in this thread).

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16909.msg169720#msg169720

afridi220

Peace everyone,

Why manifest the attributes?

God knows He can create. He does not need to create just to manifest that attribute.

God knows He is merciful and just. He does not need to create humans to manifest those attributes.

God does not say "I did not create jinn and mankind except to manifest my attributes of justice and mercy", but He says "I did not create the jinn and the humans except to serve Me" (5156).

The article quoted by Afridi does not answer Diem's question of "why create anything in the 1st place?".

Panentheism is the only concept that might answer that question, otherwise it makes it look like God is needy and needs to manifest His attributes (low self esteem perhaps? astaghfir Allah nope), whereas He does not need anything (397, 296, 397, 646). Only God knows best.

For more info on Panentheism and how it is different from Pantheism

http//www.websyte.com/alan/pan.htm
http//www.kheper.net/topics/worldviews/panentheism.html

To describe it in simple words ALLAH is creator and his nature is creation he created the universe he created angels jinn and human, why because that is his nature and he wanted to craet,so if he created us to serve him then why he is called selfish. hmm

belH

To describe it in simple words ALLAH is creator and his nature is creation he created the universe he created angels jinn and human, why because that is his nature and he wanted to craet,so if he created us to serve him then why he is called selfish. hmm

Peace
Would you think that God Created Humans and Jins because He wanted to create creatures that Love Him and Worship him using their FREE-WELL?
As we all know we and the Jins are the only Creatuers with Free-Well.
What do you think?

Hope

I cann't wait to know these questions; please feel free to share them with us.

Peace all

Salam Belal and everyone

As i said before , there are some questions, that sometimes crosse my mind confused, i hope i can find answrer to them but , if there arent, it is okay

For example, As we have told from some verses of the Quran, that there will be some sort of communications between the ppl in heaven and ppls in hell, a sort of conversations and viewing, my question is, how someone in heaven feel happy, knowing that some of his beloved ones are suffering in hell.

weired question, i guess -[

peace

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Belalhammad,

As we all know we and the Jins are the only Creatuers with Free-Well.

Who has told you this? All of GOD's creation has free will, certainly not humans only. The angels have free will, as do the mountains and the entire universe.

Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly." (4111)

The statement "willingly or unwillingly" shows that there was a choice in the matter, and this is even a confirmation of the Torah, which says that certain creations of GOD chose to disobey His commands, and they were either annihilated or they submitted to Him. Indeed, He is most powerful.

Are they seeking other than GOD's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned? (383)

This verse uses the word "EVERYTHING" instead of "everyone". This shows that all of GOD's creation, even the things we consider inanimate/unliving, have a choice to obey GOD's command, and by their choices they are either rewarded or severely punished. This applies to everything GOD has created.

We have offered the responsibility to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant. (3372)

This verse is also stated in the Torah, and according to the Jews, this is a reference to the Torah itself, and only the nation of Israel was willing to submit to GOD and accept His law; all others were fearful and refused. Regardless, though, we see that the heavens and earth and the mountains all had the choice to bear this great responsibility, and they all were fearful and refused. So, if all these objects and subjects of GOD's creation have the choice to obey or disobey, why do you believe the angels to be any different? Nowhere in the Quran, or in the previous scriptures, will you find that the angels are robots who are forced to obey GOD's commands. They make a choice just like all other forms of His creation, and this is clarified by Satan's rebellion and refusal to pay homage to the man, Adam, after GOD instructed all the angels to do so...

Peace,

Ahmad

Rami

Peace Diem,
This is because you are a victim of science fiction and have a screwed concept of time. God REMEMBERS the past BUT doesn't know the future unless it can be forecasted. God still knows everything because what you will do tomorrow is NOT even a thing. Time travel is actually impossible cuz there is no such thing as time but it is changes in matter. So when you do something God will be the first to know as nothing hides from Him in the heavens and the earth. Therefore, His knowledge is being updated every second and He is always deciding what to do next. Thats why prayer is possible because God is dynamic. He doesn't change His words but your prayer can influence the upcoming decrees! but when the word is OUT you can't stop it because He does what He willed. You can notice that by seeing how God interacts with people of old. When God talks about the future, it is not a prophecy but a promise. When the time come, God will fulfil His promise NOT a prophecy that will come to pass. Peace.

belH

how someone in heaven feel happy, knowing that some of his beloved ones are suffering in hell.

weired question, i guess -[

peace

Peace all
No, it is not a weired question.
Now let me give an example from Quran that will answer your Question the story of The Son of Noah and the Story of Abraham Father. Both, the son and the father, will go to hillfire. Now, what did Abraham and Noha say when they knew (9-114 for Abraham, and 11-45, 46, and 47 for Noah)

(&#65279

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And God ordered the true believers to (9-113)
(&#65279

Now, in order to be a true believer, you have to accept God's Justice, even if it would mean what you said. But rest asure that you will not feel sad (43-68 thru 73), if you were to enter Heaven (I hope so)

(&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279

Our feelings will change in the next life; we will know that our beloved ones (in this life), Sons, Father, Mother, and friends are just creatuers of God; we will know that our relationship with them were part of God's test in this life.
we will know that our relationship with them has ended and our new relationship with the people of Jana (or hillfire &amp has started.

Peace Belalhammad,

Who has told you this? All of GOD's creation has free will, certainly not humans only. The angels have free will, as do the mountains and the entire universe.

(&#65279
We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof but man undertook it he was indeed unjust and foolish (42-72)

Here are the verses that shows God's has Hardwired the creaters

(&#65279
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; then He established Himself on the Throne; He has subjected the sun and the moon ! Each one runs or an appointed period of time. He doth regulate all affairs explaining the Signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord. (13-2)

(&#65279 (&#65279

All?h is He Who has created the heavens and the earth and sends down water (rain) from the sky, and thereby brought forth fruits as provision for you; and He has made the ships to be of service to you, that they may sail through the sea by His Command; and He has made rivers (also) to be of service to you. (32) And He has made the sun and the moon, both constantly pursuing their courses, to be of service to you; and He has made the night and the day, to be of service to you. (14-33)

(&#65279 (&#65279
The sacrificial camels we have made for you as among the Symbols from Allah in them is (much) good for you then pronounce the name of Allah over them as they line up (for sacrifice) when they are down on their sides (after slaughter), eat ye thereof, and feed such as (beg not but) live in contentment, and such as beg with due humility thus have we made animals subject to you, that ye may be grateful. (36) It is not their meat nor their blood that reaches Allah it is your piety that reaches Him He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His guidance to you and proclaim the Good News to all who do right. (22-37)

Nowhere in the Quran, or in the previous scriptures, will you find that the angels are robots who are forced to obey GOD's commands. They make a choice just like all other forms of His creation, and this is clarified by Satan's rebellion and refusal to pay homage to the man, Adam, after GOD instructed all the angels to do so...
Peace,

Ahmad

The Free-Well means ones will choose between paths. Angels are creatuers that we do not know too much about. But we know they are a True servant of God, as the TRUE BELIVERS are
(&#65279
And they made (made a story) the angels, who themselves are Allah servent, females. Did they witness their creation? Their evidence will be recorded, and they will be called to account! (43-19)

(&#65279
And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say "Peace!" (25-63)

All I know that we, Humans and Jin, are the only Creatures who are being tested in this Life; I know that Angel are not being Tested. Why? maybe they did their Test before us, in which some succeeded and became the Servent of God (God only Knows).

Peace Diem,
God REMEMBERS the past BUT doesn't know the future unless it can be forecasted.

You are 100% wrong; Read the Quran and tell me Does God speaks about the futuer using Past Verbes?

Rami

You are 100% wrong; Read the Quran and tell me Does God speaks about the futuer using Past Verbes?

Peace belal,

Yes because thats God promises and God promises will come true because He will do it! It is like saying 'consider it done'. You have to get out of this time travel nonsense otherwise you are creating paradoxes you can't get out from. If God know what You will say and do, how on earth did He speak to Moses?? Don't you see how awkward that is?? brickwall It is like He knows what Moses will say and God is just saying His part in the play. Nonsense.

594 O you who believe, God will test you with some of the game for hunting coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will know who reveres Him when unseen. Whoever aggresses after this, then he will have a painful retribution.

Look at the previous verse, you will see that God tests us so He can know who revers Him. I thought He knew already. peace

Peace.

Hope

Peace all
No, it is not a weired question.
Now let me give an example from Quran that will answer your Question the story of The Son of Noah and the Story of Abraham Father. Both, the son and the father, will go to hillfire. Now, what did Abraham and Noha say when they knew (9-114 for Abraham, and 11-45, 46, and 47 for Noah)

(&#65279

(&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279

And God ordered the true believers to (9-113)
(&#65279

Now, in order to be a true believer, you have to accept God's Justice, even if it would mean what you said. But rest asure that you will not feel sad (43-68 thru 73), if you were to enter Heaven (I hope so)

(&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279

Our feelings will change in the next life; we will know that our beloved ones (in this life), Sons, Father, Mother, and friends are just creatuers of God; we will know that our relationship with them were part of God's test in this life.
we will know that our relationship with them has ended and our new relationship with the people of Jana (or hillfire &amp has started.

thanks belal

your replay have a lot of sense in it. bravo

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Rami,

God REMEMBERS the past BUT doesn't know the future unless it can be forecasted. God still knows everything because what you will do tomorrow is NOT even a thing. Time travel is actually impossible cuz there is no such thing as time but it is changes in matter. So when you do something God will be the first to know as nothing hides from Him in the heavens and the earth. Therefore, His knowledge is being updated every second and He is always deciding what to do next.

This is an illogical concept. GOD initiated creation, and that means He has always been in existence, even before existence itself. And that means that GOD created the objects and the forces that are applied today, including time and space. If GOD created time and space, then how can He be subject to them? That's illogical. If GOD controls time, then He can move forward or backward through time periods, knowing and controlling the future.

Peace,

Ahmad

Rami

Peace Rami,

This is an illogical concept. GOD initiated creation, and that means He has always been in existence, even before existence itself. And that means that GOD created the objects and the forces that are applied today, including time and space. If GOD created time and space, then how can He be subject to them? That's illogical. If GOD controls time, then He can move forward or backward through time periods, knowing and controlling the future.

Peace,

Ahmad

Peace Ahmad,
This is a bit inaccurate. There is no such thing as Time as you understand. It is only changes in matter. If you want to go back in Time literally, you have to rewind matter to the state at that time ie. a new creation altogether.

Peace.

belH

Peace belal,

Yes because thats God promises and God promises will come true because He will do it!

Peace all

God knew the outcome of all this Life, before we were created

.........(6-59)

With Him are the keys of the Unseen, that none knoweth but He.......59-6

I will give you another Hint

(&#65279
Then they proceeded until, when they met a young man, he slew him. Moses said "Hast thou slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul (unheard-of) thing hast thou done!" (18-74)

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"As for the youth his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he will grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude. (80) "So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange better in purity and closer in affection. (18-81)

Look at the previous verse, you will see that God tests us so He can know who revers Him. I thought He knew already. peace

Peace.

We have to be tested so our actions would be counted, in order to earn Heaven or Earn Hillfire.
Peace

Peace Rami,

This is an illogical concept. GOD initiated creation, and that means He has always been in existence, even before existence itself. And that means that GOD created the objects and the forces that are applied today, including time and space. If GOD created time and space, then how can He be subject to them? That's illogical. If GOD controls time, then He can move forward or backward through time periods, knowing and controlling the future.

Peace,

Ahmad

bravo

belH

thanks belal

your replay have a lot of sense in it. bravo

I hope I was right, otherwise, I will be doomed &

Rami

Peace all

God knew the outcome of all this Life, before we were created

.........(6-59)

With Him are the keys of the Unseen, that none knoweth but He.......59-6

I will give you another Hint

(&#65279
Then they proceeded until, when they met a young man, he slew him. Moses said "Hast thou slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul (unheard-of) thing hast thou done!" (18-74)

(&#65279 (&#65279
"As for the youth his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he will grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude. (80) "So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange better in purity and closer in affection. (18-81)

We have to be tested so our actions would be counted, in order to earn Heaven or Earn Hillfire.
Peace

bravo

-The unseen is simply the secrets of the heavens and the earth. Not the future. The proton was a ghayeb to the people of the past. Heaven and Hell are ghayeb. Anything you really didn't see is ghayeb!
-The boy was already wicked but Moses didn't know that so his wickedness was a ghayeb to Moses.
-Still God says 'SO HE KNOWS who reveres Him' God will know who is good and bad not that he knew before hand!

Peace.

belH

-The unseen is simply the secrets of the heavens and the earth. Not the future. The proton was a ghayeb to the people of the past. Heaven and Hell are ghayeb. Anything you really didn't see is ghayeb!
-The boy was already wicked but Moses didn't know that so his wickedness was a ghayeb to Moses.
-Still God says 'SO HE KNOWS who reveres Him' God will know who is good and bad not that he knew before hand!

Peace.

We can go on forever in this point; I, myself, believe that God knew every thing before we were created. And the reason I'm saying this is because I experianced seeing futuer events many times in my dreams; thus, I tastify that God knows the Futuer.
Peace

unknownuser

We can go on forever in this point; I, myself, believe that God knew every thing before we were created. And the reason I'm saying this is because I experianced seeing futuer events many times in my dreams; thus, I tastify that God knows the Futuer.
Peace

Salam Belalhammad,
Excellent point! Many of us have had dreams of future events that came true. We also know of future events being foretold in the Quran (and in other scriptures as well).

I'm reminded of Matrix Reloaded

ORACLE .... Candy?

NEO Do you already know if I'm going to take it?

ORACLE Wouldn't be much of an Oracle if I didn't.

NEO But if you already know, how can I make a choice?

ORACLE Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to understand why you made it. I thought you'd've figured that out by now.

NEO I see Trinity and something happens, something bad. She starts to fall, and then I wake up.

ORACLE Do you see her die?

NEO No.

ORACLE You have the sight now, Neo, you are looking at the world without time.

NEO Then why can't I see what happens to her?

ORACLE We can never see past the choices we don't understand.

NEO Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?

ORACLE No. You've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it.

Maybe we've already made our choices and we are just here to understand why... or to experience them.... or both

Salam,
Arnab

belH

Maybe we've already made our choices and we are just here to understand why... or to experience them.... or both

Peace Arnab

(&#65279

Yousuf Ali
How can ye reject the faith in Allah? Seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return. (22-

We are here in our first life, in which we are making our choices.

sun

afridi220

Peace Belalhammad,

Who has told you this? All of GOD's creation has free will, certainly not humans only. The angels have free will, as do the mountains and the entire universe.

Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly." (4111)

The statement "willingly or unwillingly" shows that there was a choice in the matter, and this is even a confirmation of the Torah, which says that certain creations of GOD chose to disobey His commands, and they were either annihilated or they submitted to Him. Indeed, He is most powerful.

Are they seeking other than GOD's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned? (383)

This verse uses the word "EVERYTHING" instead of "everyone". This shows that all of GOD's creation, even the things we consider inanimate/unliving, have a choice to obey GOD's command, and by their choices they are either rewarded or severely punished. This applies to everything GOD has created.

We have offered the responsibility to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant. (3372)

This verse is also stated in the Torah, and according to the Jews, this is a reference to the Torah itself, and only the nation of Israel was willing to submit to GOD and accept His law; all others were fearful and refused. Regardless, though, we see that the heavens and earth and the mountains all had the choice to bear this great responsibility, and they all were fearful and refused. So, if all these objects and subjects of GOD's creation have the choice to obey or disobey, why do you believe the angels to be any different? Nowhere in the Quran, or in the previous scriptures, will you find that the angels are robots who are forced to obey GOD's commands. They make a choice just like all other forms of His creation, and this is clarified by Satan's rebellion and refusal to pay homage to the man, Adam, after GOD instructed all the angels to do so...

Peace,

Ahmad

Bilal you should learn from your other part i agree witjh Ahmed Bilal peace ;D

truthseeker11

Peace everyone,

God is all knowing.

"Ya3lama" in 594 is usually mistranslated as "will know" but that will cause contradiction with God being "3aleem"/all knowing. "Ya3lama" can also mean "will distinguish" and that is the correct meaning

594 O you who believe, God will test you with some of the game for hunting coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will distinguish who reveres Him when unseen. Whoever aggresses after this, then he will have a painful retribution.

God is gathering evidence and distinguishing one from the other for the sake of one's fellow creation (not to know Himself but for the creation to know by distinguishing one from the other) so that the fellow creation cannot say that one's recompense was unfair on the Last Day

3140 If you are wounded, then know that the other group is also wounded. And such are the days, We alternate them between the people, so that God will DISTINGUISH those who believe, and so He may make witnesses from among you; and God does not like the wicked.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Experiment_with_Time

?Dunne's theory, elaborated from years of experiments into precognitive dreams and induced precognitive states, is that in reality all Time is eternally present ie that past, present and future are all happening at the same time. Human consciousness, however, experiences this simultaneity in linear form. Dunne posits that in the dreaming state this way of interpreting Time ceases to be as concrete as when we are awake. Thus we are capable of having what we call precognitive dreams as consciousness finds itself free to roam across past, present and future. From this Dunne posited that we existed on two levels ourselves, both inside and outside Time, thus suggesting the notion of Immortality contained in his later books 'The New Immortality' and 'Nothing Dies'.

The idea that Time (and, by extension, humanity) exists both simultaneously and linearly is a difficult one to grasp. One analogy is that of a book. At any given moment the entirety of a book exists in itself but at any given moment we can only read one page at a time, the other pages, while existing simultaneously with the one we are reading, remaining outside our consciousness. If we could somehow read every page of the book at once, or be able to experience the book in its entirety in a single moment then we would be closer to a real experience of it. Similarly in our lives we are conscious of only one moment in Time, the present, rather than our past, present and future together. The past is remembered but not physically experienced, the future remains unknown.

To achieve the simultaneous awareness of past, present and future would mean a complete reevaluation of the nature of our existence in terms of consciousness, Time and physical reality, something which Dunne argues is the logical conclusion of his work.?

God can see the past, present and future AT THE SAME TIME. That is how He knows with 100 % accuracy without forcing any of our choices.

khyaletanzim

Dear Diem,

Answer to your question according to my understanding is very long and needs clearer understanding of the system of God (Deen). In my unerstanding, Unless you understand God's system completely you cannot have the answer to your question because your question is based on wrong assumptions.

Your question was

If God knows everything that is going to happen, what is the point of creating humans if he knows what they are going to do? What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so whats the point?

God knows everything that is going to happen
it is correct but it is not related to deeds.

What is the point of creating humans
this part has already been answered in the posts by other participants.

If he knows what they are going to do?
he knows and he also does according to their deeds.

What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so what?s the point
In my understanding you have been taught wrong that he created us for worship. There is no such thing as worship in Quran, this word is created by religious fanatics and in Quran equaling of worship in my understanding is minasik(rituals)

In my understanding the problem in understanding is due to following reasons

Idea of having one life (it is a cycle he created for us to reach salvation and we will remain in this cycle until Yawmmuddin)
Divisions will be hell and heaven only. (actually three divisions)
Assumptions about hell and heaven (it is same as this land or world)
God does what he wills assumed wrongly (changing of circumstances by God)
Translating yawmmuddin into judgment day. (time of the God?s system)

Answers are in Quran but if you want the exact verses then please let me know and I will find it for you. Not putting right now is due to short time.