But, heaven is boring!
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Peace all,
I once had an argument with a Christian friend of mine who lost all faith in religion and asked me why I was fasting during Radaman?
I said because you are commanded to
He said What if you don't do it?
I said God's gonna be M-A-D
He said Then what?
I said if I continue my chances for heaven would be narrowed )
He said Why do you want to go there anyway
I said because I don't wanna burn forever
He said Would'nt heaven be boring? You'll have everything you need. NO CHALLANGES. No Competition. You are always the winner in everything you do. What a rip-off!Hell's a challenge - an eternal challange. A struggle to survive and work hard )
What do you think?
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Peace be upon you,
What is this "heaven" you are speaking about?
I know of the SYMBOLIC stories of the Garden and the Fire, both of which are mind states that start here on earth, and after the death of the house we call a bidy, all that is left is our "mind states". Tell your frined he better start right now at getting control of his mind by practicing certain disciplines.
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Salaam Dell,
The way I see it is... first, God's gonna be mad?... I don't think so. wink
But getting in the subject of heaven... He doesn't KNOW what it's like there, he doesn't have a clue of what our thoughts and 'needs' are, so who says you would want challenges/competition. Infact I can tell you right here right now, I dont care about competition. It means nothing to me. I am the winner at who I am. I am perfect in my imperfections, and it's no "rip-off". P
Hell's a challenge - an eternal challange. A struggle to survive and work hard
Tell him to challenge this...Those who have rejected Our signs, We will admit them to a Fire. Every time their skins are cooked, We replace them with other skin that they may taste the retribution. God is Noble, Wise.
From behind him is Hell, and he will be served boiling water. He tries to drink it, but it cannot be swallowed, and death comes to him from everywhere, but he will not die; and from behind him is a powerful retribution.
People can say anything of things they've never experienced, and sound all tough. roll
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Excellent reply Idolfree1!
First, I want you to do me a HUGE favor and tell me what is the concept of heaven in your mind and then how God explains it.
My family and myself, we take all those descriptions literally. Meaning, yes, we believe we'll be ohh i don't know wearing silk clothes (if we make it heaven), etc.
But every now and then, I run into folks that tell me its all allegorical. None of it is real. Then, why did God explain it to us?
PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND>>>
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Peace be upon you Dell,
Excellent reply Idolfree1!
All appreciation is for the One God. D First, I hope you understood my message as I mispeled some words typing quickly D Second, be aware that there are many people here who do not like the SYMBOLIC approach and will try to discredit it. I only tell you to make up your own mind because you are the only one responsible. I do not ask you to follow them OR ME, only the God. And I hope I can help bring you closer to what HE is explaining in this reading(quran).
First, I want you to do me a HUGE favor and tell me what is the concept of heaven in your mind and then how God explains it.
This part I will provide tommorrow, unless the God wills. I was about to leave work when I saw this and someone is waiting for me.
My family and myself, we take all those descriptions literally. Meaning, yes, we believe we'll be ohh i don't know wearing silk clothes (if we make it heaven), etc.
But every now and then, I run into folks that tell me its all allegorical. None of it is real. Then, why did God explain it to us?
PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND>>>
All I will say until tommorrow is this, the God is explaining things to us that we have nothing to caompare it to in our exsistence, so the God uses SYMBOLISM. For example, if you never ate chocolate, how could you explain it to someone else except by alllegories and similitudes?
There is an excellent post somewhere on this forum that explains this well. I will try to find that as well tommorrow. Until then, may peace be upon you.
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peace Dell, All,
As a side note I recently changed my answer to the reasons behind fasting/abstaining or why I fast/abstain (Arabicsawm), if someone asks me.
Now, I intend to answer such questions by
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requesting the questioner to fast/abstain themselves in order to find out the answer, if any.
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if they return, after fasting/abstaining, still without any ideas as to the possible answers, I intend to ask them to fast/abstain again.
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if they return again, I will give them my reasons, GW.
In my humble opinion, parts 2 & 3 are unlikely to occur, once one questions the one fasting/abstaining on how it made them feel etc.
The truth/answer is more powerful if one sees/experiences it for themselves.
Wakas
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Peace be upon you Dell,
Sorry for the delay, quite simply, the God speaks about the "garden" and the "fire". They are allegorical descriptions of states of mind(nafs). Your mind is likened to a garden, whatever "seed" you plant in the garden, that is what will grow, therefore we get the saying, "you reap what you sow". But you must be always on guard, because there are other "farmers" who want to plant thier own seeds in your "garden". The God says that He does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in thier minds(nafs).
If you allow the wrong "seeds" to be planted in your mind, then this condition causes youto "fall" from the garden, and there we have the allegory of the fire. This is a good description of the nature of one who allows his burning desires and passions to lead him instead of the God's controllers(malaika). This was a short and simple explanation because it is really not a hard issue, just that we have been taught so much falsehood that the simple and easy path appears hard.
In 917-10, the God teslls us about the mind and states that whoever purifies it succeeds, and whoever corrupts it fails.
The goal is to be at PEACE in the "garden", that is why we greet PEACE be upon you.
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Peace Kyle,
Are you saying that you do not believe in Jannah and Jehenna in the hereafter? And that you do not believe in the ressurection and Judgement Day??
Just Curious.
Salaam,
Damon. -
Peace be upon you brother Damon,
Are you saying that you do not believe in Jannah and Jehenna in the hereafter? And that you do not believe in the ressurection and Judgement Day??
No, I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that these two states are going on right now. Our natural state is 'PEACE". We achieve that by being "farmers" and sowing seeds of purification in the "garden". But the fire, that is created by the wicked, and thier fiery desires/passions. When the physical body is done, all we have left are our mind states, just as it was before we had these bodies, which is why the God was speaking to the malaika before the creation of adam(physical man).
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Peace Kyle,
I don't understand your response. Maybe I should re-phrase my inquiry
Do you believe in Ressurection? Yes or No
Do you believe in Jannah? Yes or No
Do you believe in Gehanna? Yes or No
Do you believe in Judgement Day? Yes or No
Salaam,
Damon. -
Salaam
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okay-okay-okay
lets pause || for a sec...........
ok, so i believe for now that hell/heaven are allegorical, but if they are, then what happens to us when we die?
obviously our bodies aren't there, so neither would we benifit from the rivers with flowing wine and milk, nor would we suffer from the roasting of our skin because they are allegorical......then nothing happens even if you are good or bad? What happens to the soul?
and btw ansar, i know you are gonna ask, "so, now idolfree1 is your MUFTI?" so here's an answer, no, I am just getting people opinions )
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Peace be upon you Damon,
I don't understand your response. Maybe I should re-phrase my inquiry
Do you believe in Ressurection? Yes or No
Yes, I HAVE FAITH in ressurection because I see plants die and come back, and I see the human Mind die and come back, just as I have experienced my own Mind die from the life of this world and come back ressurected in the God's path. So with those examples I have built FAITH in this concept. As for the human body, I have faith that this process will continue because I have already seen the first creation, which we can all see around us, so why would not the God be able to do the very same thing. D
Do you believe in Jannah? Yes or No
YES. I HAVE FAITH in the garden. I believe that whatever seed I sow in my MIND that I will reap that very same fruit. I have faith in cause and effect because I see it everywhere I look. So likewise, I have faith that the TOTAL sum of causes will lead to a TOTAL sum of effects after this phase of exsistence.
Do you believe in Gehanna? Yes or No
YES. I HAVE FAITH in the FIRE because I have experienced this state of mind where the passions and desires burn inside me and I destroy what is around me that gives life. The fire within me did not allow growth.
Do you believe in Judgement Day? Yes or No
YES. I have faith in the ending time because I have faith in cause and effect. The ending time, or the effect, is where we are contiuously judged, and by that experience, I have Faith in the TOTAL effect of my TOTAL causes.
You see, ALL OF THEM are based on experiences, not just because someone came with a book and said "believe this or else".
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Peace be upon you Dell,
okay-okay-okay
lets pause || for a sec...........
ok, so i believe for now that hell/heaven are allegorical, but if they are, then what happens to us when we die?
No one can say with absolute certainty, but my faith leads me to the understanding that it will be like we are sleeping, we will be in our MIND STATES, some will have polluted minds, so it will be a torturing punishment, others will have purified thier minds, so they will be at peace, enjoying all that they wish. Have you heard of a LUCID DREAM? That is when one becomes aware while dreaming, and so they can control what happens. I have experienced this and was starting to fly in my dream. It was the best dream I ever had, along with the dreams where I was having sex and it seemed so real! Well its the truth!
obviously our bodies aren't there, so neither would we benifit from the rivers with flowing wine and milk, nor would we suffer from the roasting of our skin because they are allegorical......then nothing happens even if you are good or bad? What happens to the soul?
I translate "nafs" as MInd, not Soul. I think it helps us understand better. The milk honey and roasting skin are allegories to let us know how we will feel about our decisions.
and btw ansar, i know you are gonna ask, "so, now idolfree1 is your MUFTI?" so here's an answer, no, I am just getting people opinions
Please do not feed this persons ego any further than what it is already. We all know that each of us here is aware that we must listen to ALL Opinions, and follow the BEST as the God has instructed us, if he does not wish to follow the God, that is his decision, but we do not owe him continued explanation for what we do.
