Needing some sort of explanation
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See http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/kt/KT.htm
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Peace CandiceSj
Traditionalists claim free will does not exist?
http//muttaqun.com/freewill.html
If things are meant to be, do we really have any choice; if everything is preordained, why worry about taxes, death, and going to heaven ? no way to change destiny, is there?
The renown psychiatrist Viktor Frankl in his book ?Man?s Search for Meaning? describes spending years in Nazi death camps where all the familiar goals in life are snatched away and what remains is ?the last of human freedoms? ? the ability to ?choose one?s attitude in a given set of circumstances.?
Is there free will or is the choice our ?attitude? toward God?s will ? is that the test?
Or is attitude preordained as well?
We had a similar discussion at home and one of the girls in my family said she believes in free will that it?s like playing chess with God ? He knows your every move but at the same time you are free to play as you will.
I realized how good of analogy that actually is since there is almost an infinite amount of possibilities for different chess games (decisions or paths in life) that one can play; the actual number or permutation is calculated to be 10 to the 120th power! That?s more than twice as there are sub-atomic particles (quarks, electrons, etc.) in the known universe.
I asked if God knows the outcome how we can have free will.
If someone does evil is it really their fault if God willed it?
Her other sister checkmated with ?God does not will someone to do evil, it?s their choice!?
Believing in destiny and free will can be viewed as a contradiction if one doesn?t consider God transcends time-space with all events past, present, and future known in a single moment whereas relative to our experience it?s eternity ? a matter of point of view or relativity!
I also feel people?s spiritual point of view may also transcend time-space to recall future events as in deja-vu dreams or in near death experiences when their whole lives flash in front of them in an instant moment; both types of occurrences have been cited by numerous individuals and a similar flash phenomenon will happen on Judgment Day?
1713 And We have attached to every person's neck his deeds, and We bring forth for him a record on the Day of Resurrection which he will find on display.
1714 Read your record! It is enough for you that you are aware of yourself today.
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Thank you for all the responses and sorry for not replying sooner. I had been busy and hadn't returned to see most of the responses until now. I will think more about all of what has been written, and will read the articles suggested. Thank you very much. And I do feel a bit enlightened )
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I doubt that anybody can live or do or be anything but what he or she lives, does or is. I think that free will is a subjective feeling or perception which is necessary for our life to go the way God appoints for us I think that free will is subjective but is, and it is not in contradiction with God appointing everything for us, because God doing is a fact and us deciding and having free will is a conscience or perception. It is like a coin with two sides, both are the coin and they are opposed and not mutually excluding but mutually necessary for the coin to be the coin. It is something like being in love. One is free to do, be or live what God appoints. I think that it doesn't matter that you don't have choice or but that you have it. Why are you less free if you do not have choice? It is like sex all in the head, but it is.
Salaam
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I don't think there is such a thing as free will or choice. God having given us certain genetic characteristics and putting us in certain environments has already predetermined the choices we will make. Had our nurture or nature been even somewhat different we would have been different people with a different destiny. What reason is there then for God to create certain people in such a way that they would invariably end up Kafirs?
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I don't think there is such a thing as free will or choice. God having given us certain genetic characteristics and putting us in certain environments has already predetermined the choices we will make. Had our nurture or nature been even somewhat different we would have been different people with a different destiny. What reason is there then for God to create certain people in such a way that they would invariably end up Kafirs?
Peace,
Respectfully.There is a free will/choice, we decide what we will do/say/think but at the same time we are only informed that The Exalted God The Most Wise already knows about it because He lives outside the Space-Time Continuum. He already sees what will i decide before i have decided, He has not created kafirs, people chose to reject The Quran and chose to follow their desires.
You should definetely watch Matrix trilogy and you will see that all three movies ar emore Islamic then Iraq.
Glory be to our God.
Peace. -
Peace,
Respectfully.There is a free will/choice, we decide what we will do/say/think but at the same time we are only informed that The Exalted God The Most Wise already knows about it because He lives outside the Space-Time Continuum. He already sees what will i decide before i have decided, He has not created kafirs, people chose to reject The Quran and chose to follow their desires.
God created everyone including Kafirs. He gave them all of their desires and make them weak towards these desires. Who we are and the choices we make comes down to Nature and Nurture. Both of these things god decides from the very beginning. If he wanted he could have only created believers to save himself tormenting anyone in hell.
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God created everyone including Kafirs. He gave them all of their desires and make them weak towards these desires. Who we are and the choices we make comes down to Nature and Nurture. Both of these things god decides from the very beginning. If he wanted he could have only created believers to save himself tormenting anyone in hell.
Peace all,
Bubbles, long time no see, where have you been?Any way, so do you think God created you and give you the desire to believe in Hadiths as a Divine revelation?
belalhammad
I do believe Muhammed received other revelation besides the Quran (hadith qudsi being an example of this). Sahiih Bukhari and other books are a collection of the sayings and practices of Muhammed. They are not in their entirety a revelation from God as they were collected by men.
or have you change your choice and started to reject Hadith and Quran; because what you said in regard of Free Well is against hadith and Quran.
Looking forward to know about what happened to your believe.Peace
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I'm trying to find a way to understand something that doesn't seem to make sense to me. It's about free will. I don't feel like we have free will like we think we do. I mean, we are all born different biologically, and that includes the way we think and our temperament... and even more than that, we are all born in different circumstances and experience different things which shape us. Put those two things together and they determine a lot of the actions we make, thoughts we have, etc. I'm sure most of you believe that God determined these things (our height, our skin colour, our temperaments, our place of birth, our parents, our general family income, etc. etc.) and considering that all this will have an effect on the things we decide to do, how free are our "decisions"?? And if we don't have the free will, how can God punish us for doing what we did?
I really hope I can find a way to accept the concept of free will... and of people deserving punishments for sins, because I just feel now that we don't all have the same chance to be good and obey God, and if we don't start with the same chance, then it's unfair, basically, and that's not a characteristic of God.
salam,
we are brought into this world for one reason to worship god, he has set the stage for us, put all good and evil infront of us, gave us some clues as in "messengers being the clues", and set us free, throughout life we will experience hardships and easy times, but god has it different for every person, for he says he puts on us only what we can take, for example two people may not deal with a heartbreak the same so god lightens the burden on certain people depending on how much they can handle, some he burdens more .life is already set for us but it is how we choose to deal with it is the real test again. you have just come to be a believer, he will not burden you as he would someone who has been a believer and has developed stronger faith, nevertheless he will burden you with lets say debts or a loved one who has been hurt or an accident, all these are already set in place but it is how you deal with it, will you curse and start drinking not beleiving in god for what he has done to you or family, or will one take it like a beleiver and have patience, as one would have passed the test. he has already written everything that happens to us, what he has not written and left us with free will is the choice to beleive and have faith or to run after this life not beleiving in him. -
Peace all,
Bubbles, long time no see, where have you been?I was losing interest in Islam and I suppose I got kind of tired of debating hadiths.
Any way, so do you think God created you and give you the desire to believe in Hadiths as a Divine revelation?
or have you change your choice and started to reject Hadith and Quran; because what you said in regard of Free Well is against hadith and Quran.
Looking forward to know about what happened to your believe.Peace
I had a faith crisis recently and I no longer believe in the Quran or God.
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I was losing interest in Islam and I suppose I got kind of tired of debating hadiths.
I had a faith crisis recently and I no longer believe in the Quran or God.salam bubbles,
its funny that many your age tend to get confused with religion, i guess its because there is so much out there one tends to get lost, my son is learning religions of the world at school and he comes home one day telling me he doesnt beleive in a god.....hes 16, so what do i do as a mother hearing this from her child, i have had faith all my life learning through my own mother waking up in the morning finding her reading quran,i dont think shes ever missed a day........ i am not worried yet i will be patient with him and wait as he grows older and try to show him the true path.
my son tells me, mom look at you , you are almos 40 with no husband your only friends those on the enternet and our dad took off leaaving you with the five of us. he tells me you have been a beleiver all your life and what has that gotten you what has god done for you.
the is the mind of a 16 year old.......its not easy but one really cannot explain to someone of that age the true meaning of god, but i on the other hand have great patience, you seem to have had love for god one time, should not lose faith, he will always come through 945-6 l7amdulillah rab l3alamin -
Peace
I'm sure you can try and explain to your son the meaning of God, but the meaning of God is strange even for theologians. Alot if not all people do not really know God. I think maybe you can explain your ideas on his level, but I think it's good that you do not force your beliefs on him because people growing up really do abhor that.
Joe
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I had a faith crisis recently and I no longer believe in the Quran or God.
Peace Bubbles
Do you mind to share with us some of your "Faith Crisis"? I think Faith Crisis is a Good Sign, if the person who is experiencing the crisis had a wrong religion; It shows that His Soul did not accept the wrong religion.Please forgive me if I was rough with you in the Hadith thread, and let us start a new friendly discussion about your doubt in God and Quran.
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Peace Bubbles
Do you mind to share with us some of your "Faith Crisis"? I think Faith Crisis is a Good Sign, if the person who is experiencing the crisis had a wrong religion; It shows that His Soul did not accept the wrong religion.Please forgive me if I was rough with you in the Hadith thread, and let us start a new friendly discussion about your doubt in God and Quran.
Well I suppose I just don't see any real evidence that the Quran is the word of a god, or that gods actually do exist. I was a very strong believer, but over time I've found the justifications that I once believed in and used to support the Quran have faded away until I simply couldn't believe. My loss of belief had very little to do with the hadiths, but was primarily the Quran and the whole concept of a god, besides I was a believer in the Quran Alone at one point as well and that didn't last long.
I've also begun to hate the character of the Abrahamic god and am unable to understand why he would create this world that contains so much suffering for both humans and other animals just to make us all play a little game. The worst part is the punishment of hell that awaits those that can't believe in him or follow his at times irrational rules. He didn't even need to create people that would become kafir, yet he did it anyway knowing full well that they would end up burning in hell.
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Well I suppose I just don't see any real evidence that the Quran is the word of a god, or that gods actually do exist. I was a very strong believer, but over time I've found the justifications that I once believed in and used to support the Quran have faded away until I simply couldn't believe. My loss of belief had very little to do with the hadiths, but was primarily the Quran and the whole concept of a god, besides I was a believer in the Quran Alone at one point as well and that didn't last long.
I've also begun to hate the character of the Abrahamic god and am unable to understand why he would create this world that contains so much suffering for both humans and other animals just to make us all play a little game. The worst part is the punishment of hell that awaits those that can't believe in him or follow his at times irrational rules. He didn't even need to create people that would become kafir, yet he did it anyway knowing full well that they would end up burning in hell.
Peace Bubbles
I believe an intelligent human being, like yourself, would not believe that this world were created by itself. Therefore, I will not assume that you do think that way.
Now, I can note that you are not happy that God created us as Free well creatures. You are not Happy that God knew that most of humans will fail the Test, but still created them. And because of that you concluded that God Created and Hardwired the Humans to be either Believers or Disbelievers.
Will...Why do you think that some True Believers become True disbelievers? If God Hardwired them, when born, to be Believers, Why they became disbelievers? Why Abraham, whom his Father was a disbeliever, became one of the Strongest Believer? Why Noha Son is a Disbliever, when His Father was not?Brother Bubble, make your peace with God and your War with Evil.
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Say "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah for Allah forgives all sins for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (39-53)And if you decide to make your peace with God, Make sure to Submit to Him by following His True Guidance and not making peace with Him and submitting to others Guidance; otherwise, He will never Give you the Peace you asked for.
Bubbles, Listen to Me Make Your Peace With Him.
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Peace Bubbles
I believe an intelligent human being, like yourself, would not believe that this world were created by itself. Therefore, I will not assume that you do think that way.I do not believe that the universe requires a creator.
Now, I can note that you are not happy that God created us as Free well creatures. You are not Happy that God knew that most of humans will fail the Test, but still created them. And because of that you concluded that God Created and Hardwired the Humans to be either Believers or Disbelievers.
I don't think you quite understand me. I believe that free will is an illusion and that our existence and all of our decisions were determined right from the beginning of the universe. Every decision that we make is only the result of biological or environmental factors, if our biology or environment were somewhat different we would be completely different people. What I don't understand is why god who is supposedly all-knowing allowed for kafirs to even exist. If the end destination of the kafir is to go to hell, then nonexistence is preferable.
Will...Why do you think that some True Believers become True disbelievers? If God Hardwired them, when born, to be Believers, Why they became disbelievers? Why Abraham, whom his Father was a disbeliever, became one of the Strongest Believer? Why Noha Son is a Disbliever, when His Father was not?
People's beliefs often change with time, but all of these changes were predetermined by god if he exists. He already knew that Abraham would die a believer, and that Noah's son would die a disbeliever.
Brother Bubble, make your peace with God and your War with Evil.
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Say "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah for Allah forgives all sins for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (39-53)And if you decide to make your peace with God, Make sure to Submit to Him by following His True Guidance and not making peace with Him and submitting to others Guidance; otherwise, He will never Give you the Peace you asked for.
Bubbles, Listen to Me Make Your Peace With Him.
If I believed in god and actually liked him then I would make my peace with him.
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I was losing interest in Islam and I suppose I got kind of tired of debating hadiths.
I had a faith crisis recently and I no longer believe in the Quran or God.Bubbles,
You no longer believe in God, do you believe in devil, iblees, satan, whatever we know him as, If your answer is yes then Please start believing in God, or to be more accurate in Al-La ah The La ah, and also because devil believes in God or Al-Laah.
If your answer is no, meanings you also don't believe in Devil, then lets do an experiment And assume that there is nothing no planets, stars, earth, etc nothing, but who and what is doing this assumption, you your conciseness is doing this assumption so nothing exists but your conciseness, you might argue and say that for my conciseness to exist i have to exist too physically, bodily etc. But what do you think what is the proof of existence, reception and process of data from senses, its a mirage, once before time existed it was not the case HE who is ALONE or Al-ONE thought of time, so did time happen, we whom find our self living are very fortunate to experience LIFE, with all its superiority by being in Hueman from, we will hopefully Evolve, and all who are having life of Para-dies here will have life of paradise there. Don't know how to go further about it, have had quite a bit of faith crisis in life too, from dipping the fly to here was quite a journey. But could not stop believing in a Supreme Will, The Programmer, whom everything is also part of.
your posts are very nice i thoroughly enjoy your thoughts, when after your the La ah passes them to the display.
Linguistic is the key, Al-La ah spoke to Moses, European scientist say he was high.
I am a bit too, wanted to reach you done that, not a regular writer, scared actually among the company of quite GEMS here.
LA E LAHA EL LA AL LAH.
A Contract, for you, with yourself. -
Bubbles,
You no longer believe in God, do you believe in devil, iblees, satan, whatever we know him as, If your answer is yes then Please start believing in God, or to be more accurate in Al-La ah The La ah, and also because devil believes in God or Al-Laah.
I don't believe in the devil either.
If your answer is no, meanings you also don't believe in Devil, then lets do an experiment And assume that there is nothing no planets, stars, earth, etc nothing, but who and what is doing this assumption, you your conciseness is doing this assumption so nothing exists but your conciseness, you might argue and say that for my conciseness to exist i have to exist too physically, bodily etc. But what do you think what is the proof of existence, reception and process of data from senses, its a mirage, once before time existed it was not the case HE who is ALONE or Al-ONE thought of time, so did time happen, we whom find our self living are very fortunate to experience LIFE, with all its superiority by being in Hueman from, we will hopefully Evolve, and all who are having life of Para-dies here will have life of paradise there. Don't know how to go further about it, have had quite a bit of faith crisis in life too, from dipping the fly to here was quite a journey. But could not stop believing in a Supreme Will, The Programmer, whom everything is also part of.
I found what you wrote a little difficult to understand, but I think what you were getting at is that our own existence isn't provable. Like you said it might all just be a mirage, then what reason is there to believe in anything besides our own consciousness, like in god? By the way many philosophers bring the existence of our consciousness into question, it isn't inconceivable that thoughts could could exist without a mind to think it.
