Gods messenger speaks out on intoxicants.
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Peace "peace4life",
As you know technically and scientifically alcohol is classified as a narcotic DRUG. There should be no doubt about this. I watched a documentary here in germany and it said the only reason this narcotic is not banned is because of this DRUG IS DEEPLY ROOTED IN THE CULTURE. Now i ask are you IN SUPPORT of drug control by the government in general? If so then youd be inconsistent by singling out alcohol. GOD Bless! -
I do not think it is correct to consider alcohol at an individual level. Its importance derives of it being a social and not an individual phenomenon. It is not very quranic, I think, to say it doesn't cause me any wrong so let everybody else take care of themselves. It doesn't work so. People who by temperament or circumstances may be vulnerable to becoming addicts in fact will be encouraged to do so if they are in the company of somebody who drinks. I think that by now that is no mistery for anybody. So the thing about alcohol being haram or not is not whether "I" can drink without risk but whether "we" as a whole can afford to drink. Before thinking lightly and drinking with good conscience we should take a look at how things work in society at large and think better. So if we decide that taking some alcohol will not harm us and it ends there, that is very convenient, whether it is true, it is something else. People usually do not go around with a sticker "I am drink vulnerable" before mixing with other people, nor should we expect it. It is up to us all not to make it easy or pull people that may be on the brink. And shouldn't forget either, that even people who are not naturally vulnerable to alcoholism, may go through times when they are. It is a very tragic and awful problem, and we should efinitely think of others. Not just of ourselves.
Salaam
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salam
very well presented brother Anthony. Great quotes. interesting topic!
Allah has put His faith and trust in us that we would not abuse His blessings. But religious leaders tend to say "let's make it haram, just to be safe!"
three questions
There are lots of idiots out there who would abuse the quotes. Alcohol causes violence against women, brain damage, liver cancer, car accidents etc. What do you do with such people according to the system of Allah?
secondly, if sectarian muslim societies realised that Allah did not FORBID alcohol/intoxicants do you think that the society will improve? is there a social benifit for them as people?
Unlike apples and oranges, alcohol and intoxicants are also addictive (just like cigarettes and that's why a Shia scholar made up a rule that cigarettes are haram, and of course they damage lungs etc. etc.). Wouldn't addiction be such as worshipping that particular drug or intoxicant?
Since life has changed a lot since traditional times and now we have science, knowledge and tools to know what is good and bad for us and can research and take responsibility it is God's will that the truth in the Quran about this matter is now unlocked.
So everyone can just ask themselves this can i actually use alcohol etc. responsibly? and seriously many people actually can't. It can turn into a habit every day after work so that at exactly something O'Clock it is beer/wine time.
Those who molest the women ect... will be punished painfully or imprisoned, and those who make corruption on Earth will be punished ( drunk driving ect... ), each individual is responsible for his own mind.
Those who deter from the path of God and from the daily prayers are the ones who deter...
I believe they repel others away from the path when they make things forbidden that God has not forbidden. God wants to pardon and forgive, while those with desease in their hearts want that you be diverted into a great diversion.
I believe that sociaty will improve by giving good news to the poor and those who do use or struggle with it, that there is no sin on those who believe, and are aware and do good for what they consume. God loves and does not waste the reward of the gooddoers.
Instead of telling them that drinking or using drugs makes them unfit to worship God and unclean. And that they are the dwellers of hell because they drink, ect...And that they lie telling them that they will be forbidden wine in paradise, while the Quran tells us that whoever eners paradise will be given anything they ask for and will be forbidden nothing.
You are a slave to whatever controls you. And it is not smart to use because of the sin that it leads to. But we shouldnt go so far as to say its forbidden because there is benifits in them also. And God has not forbidden except that which is being recited.
God commands us to eat and drink, but do not indulge.. In other words because God has given us certain privilages doesent mean that we are to take advantage or abuse His favors on use, ect...
And those who do so then God does not like those...
According to the system of Allah we deal with the rejecters severly and we deal with those who believe humbly.
salam
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Peace
The harm is in the excess/addiction. Any intoxicant and almost anything is harmful in excess but intoxicants more so due to the addiction that comes with it. Some are more addictive than others (heroin, crack) some bring an addictive lifestyle (alcohol, marijuana, nicotine), this CAN lead to you forgetting God ultimately (as AW quoted 591) which is why God advises to AVOIDING them. There is a large risk in forgetting God and indulging in excess. The best thing to do is avoid them (does not mean they are forbidden) and use your sense.
What I am wondering is why is pork out right BANNED in the Qur'an when in reality ALCOHOL (which isn't banned in the same way) causes more deaths/violence/corruption (especially in the UK) than a plate of bacon. When's the last time you heard you atheist pork-eating friend got tapeworm? Surely it should be banned the same way? What do you think? God knows best.
Also what are peoples views on cannabis in contrast to alcohol?
Peace
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Peace to all,
Maybe God knows something you dont know soof, ever think of that as a possibility?
Kurt
hahaha, sarcasm?! Maybe thats why I wrote God knows best. It was a question open to debate, not for someone to get on their high horse and say "God knows and you don't". I asked what do you THINK? based on reading the Qur'an and using your reason.. Obviously this doesn't change what God has sent down. It's just a question on a "free minds" forum..
My understanding is that Intoxicants (in particular alcohol) is avoided and the reasons are given in the Qur'an such that you can avoid it out of reasoning. There are some benefits but the harm in the excess outweighs the benefits.
Pork is outright forbidden because it is in the group of foods that is harmful to human beings. It eats and rears in its own waste and it does not bring up its cud. It harbours worms such as tapewormm, roundworm or hookworm. It harbours diseases such as Trichinosis and Influenza which all are lethal in uncooked/untreated flesh. They most definitely would have posed a higher risk at the time the Qur'an was revealed.
Alcohol is not banned but God fully explains what intoxicants do invites you to use your reason to decide how to handle it 591, but there are some benefits. In a sense the excess is banned.
Pork meat is outright forbidden because it has no genuine benefit to man and is best to be avoided full stop. Also I believe the part of the Qur'an explaining what to eat is for our own benefit not to restrict us in what we can and cannot eat. The pig is unlike any other reared animal in its behaviours and God explains that this makes the flesh impure for us. Meat is a necessity (to non-vegetarians) consumed far more than alcohol all over the world by all ages so the most effective way of removing the threat of pork meat to mankind is to ban it, even though alcohol in its excess is more dangerous. If anyone has anything to share that could further clarify, please do.
Peace
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Peace all,
Another reason it may have be banned. Is I believe Pork tastes like Human flesh.In fact I remember reading that modern day canibbals call humans "longpig".
Definition A longpig is term for a human used as food. Human meat is supposed to
taste like pork. Thus the name. -
i think you only believe that intoxicants are forbidden because you want to drink.
GOD clearly forbids them!
and do you have any proof that you are the messenger of GOD?here are some verses
"O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed." 590
"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling say, 'In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness FAR outweighs their benefit.'" 2219
alcohol is an intoxicant
"And from the fruits of date palms and grapes you produce intoxicants..." 1667
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When's the last time you heard you atheist pork-eating friend got tapeworm? Surely it should be banned the same way? What do you think? God knows best.
Also what are peoples views on cannabis in contrast to alcohol?
Peace
http//www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455067,00.html Woman had to have a worm removed from her lower brain, doctor blamed it on uncooked pork and/or poor hygiene.
If I was to weigh in on the "are intoxicants forbidden" argument, I'd say to be extremely careful what you claim to be forbidden and not. SubmitterToGod, in those verses you quoted intoxicants are NOT "clearly forbidden." They say the cons outweigh the pros and the intoxicants should be AVOIDED, but "forbidden" is not a word that is used. Pork is clearly forbidden, intoxicants, not so much. Also, I would not venture to compare and contrast alcohol and marijuana, as substances they are very different and their effects on the body are very different, but they are both obviously intoxicants and should be avoided. Their differences are more a matter of study for scientists than for seekers of divine wisdom and instruction.
But if you're just asking whats our opinion on it, I'd tell you that one substance makes people violent and depressed while the other elevates their mood and makes them peaceful (if a little lazy). I'd also say that one is capable of completely destroying a human body in a few short years; while the other may bring out latent psychosis, but is mostly physically harmless to the body. Just like the Qu'ran says theres a little benefit in them but greater harm. I'd just advise people to steer clear of them.
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Dear brothers
Just some thoughts,
My understanding for certain food items being considered not permitted in GR is as follows,
Do we know what the true chemical compositions of any food are as of now we don't, limited technology etc. but complete avoidance of certain items will lead to absence of some chemicals in human body in other words there will be a difference in genetic code, DNA, Chromosomes, of a person who's 20 generations have been consuming Pork and the once whom not. Bani Israel were also told to avoid certain type of food for quite a while.
I always use to wonder why blood and then i observed an interesting practice taking place, here in south west Africa Damara tribe ("Whom the only one i have seen" but all others also agreed on it) when slaughtering an animal they will collect the blood in a pot and cook it with some spices and eat it like a soup.
For "KHAMAR" the word means "Concealing" like expiry food items, making people fool by lying, etc. Word Al-Cohol, or any other word in English or in any other language starting with Al is an Arabic word, like Al-Gebra, etc For modern English Qanoon of tib or Law of Medicine becomes Canon of medicine.
731 and eat and drink and do not indulge; He does not like the indulgers. this for me too is the truth.
And also Economic issue is the core of topic when ever word Khamar is mentioned then it has got to do something with it you dont talk about Meyeser, Ansaab, Izlaam and on the same time what you should consume as drink, or inhale, and immediately afterwords say give everything which is more than your needs.
Just some thoughts.
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I always use to wonder why blood and then i observed an interesting practice taking place, here in south west Africa Damara tribe ("Whom the only one i have seen" but all others also agreed on it) when slaughtering an animal they will collect the blood in a pot andcook it with some spices and eat it like a soup.
Drinking cooked and spiced up blood (usually mixed with nuts & flavors) remains a cherished custom in many parts of the world even today. I've personally witnessd this at few parties.http//everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1185616
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i know it's a staple in the traditional breakfast anywhere in the british isles.
http//www.donowdo.com/images/Activities/World-Black-Pudding-Throwing-Championships-149928-1130.jpg http//sg.yimg.com/i/travel/trv6/images/BN5720_46.jpg
that right there is coagulated pigs blood.