How do you pray?
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peace,
Peace all,
It's wonderful to see everyone being proactive with their choice/methods of prayer. It shows ones awareness of their current understanding of their relationship towards God. However, based on 'The Reading', I understand that the prophet did lead the prayer in a congregation made up of several rows. Surely, they must've all prayed similarly otherwise the prophet could not have led the prayer if all his followers prayed differently. Is there a simple explanation to this that I may have missed or should we all eventually agree upon the method of prayer at some point in the near future (Insya'Allah)!?Yes, there is a simple explanation, it is called having a preconception
http//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/preconceptionI assume you are referring to 4101-103. If you look at the Classical Arabic meanings of "salat" and the usage of "sujud" in The Quran it is impossible to conclude that "prayer" took place based on these verses. It is simply one possibility.
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Peace Wakas,
Those are precisely the verses I was referring to, thank you for citing them. I understand where you are coming from in terms of how having a preconceived understanding of the meaning of 'salat' influences the overall construction of those verses. However, how else would you explain those verses if you don't use the commonly understood meaning of 'salat' which is prayer. It just doesn't seem to make sense otherwise.
I looked through all 8 pages of this discussion and I couldn't find your method of salat. Have you posted it elsewhere on this forum? I would very much like to see how you understand the concept of salat.
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Peace Wakas,
I've briefly looked at the articles you've mentioned and am quite impressed with some of your analogies. Especially where 'salat' is used in chapter 9 verses 1-12. You make some interesting conclusions. However, I read chapter 98 verses 1-8 just this morning and it's clear that Allah is very stern with the 'Ahlil Kitaabi wal Mushrikiina'.
Allah states
al-Baiyinah 098005
Transliteration Wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo Allaha mukhliseena lahu alddeena hunafaa wayuqeemoo alssalata wayu/too alzzakata wathalika deenu alqayyimati
Literal And they were not ordered/commanded except to worship God faithful/loyal/devoted to Him (in) the religion (as) submitters/Unifiers of God , and they keep up the prayers, and they give/bring the charity/purification , and that (is) the straight/valuable religion.al-Baiyinah 098006
Transliteration Inna allatheena kafaroo min ahli alkitabi waalmushrikeena fee nari jahannama khalideena feeha ola-ika hum sharru albariyyati
Literal That truly those who disbelieved from the Book's people and the sharers/takers of partners (with God are) in Hell's fire immortally/eternally in it, those, they are the creation's worst.My question is, why can't Allah insist that they mend their ways of 'salat'? Who are the 'mushrikeena'? Perhaps they were already establishing 'salat' but interjected other sayings/praises to previous prophets and Allah was insisting that they perfect their 'salat' now that He has perfected the system and revealed it through prophet Muhammad.
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Peace all,
It's wonderful to see everyone being proactive with their choice/methods of prayer. It shows ones awareness of their current understanding of their relationship towards God. However, based on 'The Reading', I understand that the prophet did lead the prayer in a congregation made up of several rows. Surely, they must've all prayed similarly otherwise the prophet could not have led the prayer if all his followers prayed differently. Is there a simple explanation to this that I may have missed or should we all eventually agree upon the method of prayer at some point in the near future (Insya'Allah)!?Peace sister,
Why we must agree upon a method of prayer?
Salat is our individual way to reach out to God and it can be done in that way you feel is right for you.
If we really had to reach out in a very exactly manner would you not think God would have clearly mention that way in his Great Reading?Maria
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Peace all,
It's wonderful to see everyone being proactive with their choice/methods of prayer. It shows ones awareness of their current understanding of their relationship towards God. However, based on 'The Reading', I understand that the prophet did lead the prayer in a congregation made up of several rows. Surely, they must've all prayed similarly otherwise the prophet could not have led the prayer if all his followers prayed differently. Is there a simple explanation to this that I may have missed or should we all eventually agree upon the method of prayer at some point in the near future (Insya'Allah)!?Ever been to one of those non-denominational Protestant churches where there is a massive crowd of people lined up in pews, all worshipping GOD in different ways? Some are shouting, some are playing instruments, some laying on the floor, some doing backflips... there's usually a pastor up on the stage also, although, I don't know if you could say he's "leading" them... but they're all in rows, even if they're doing it differently .
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Peace all,
I have more and more come to the conclusion that meditation is a wonderful tool to reach out to God and His blessings.
And therefore it is mentioned only 2 times of salat in Quran because meditation works best when it is quiet and calm and dawn and dusk are such times.
Salat wusta maybe when we reach a very deep meditation and benefit more from it. I think also Br Kyle aka idolfree mentioned this once.Maria
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peace Maria, all,
Many people suggest understandings for XYZ in The Quran. It means very little without evidence.
If people are lazy, feel free to run a suggested understanding through this checklist. If it passes, then one might be onto something.
Unfortunately, "meditation" doesn't come close to passing.
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peace Maria, all,
Many people suggest understandings for XYZ in The Quran. It means very little without evidence.
If people are lazy, feel free to run a suggested understanding through this checklist. If it passes, then one might be onto something.
Unfortunately, "meditation" doesn't come close to passing.
Peace Wakas,
So, do you mean that meditation not fit in because it is not mentioned in Quran?
Salat is a connection with God on fixed times and due to the many different explanations how and where to perform salat throughout Quran I have come to the conclusions that meditation can be a way.
For me connection is to focus and I cannot focus while doing physically bowing and prostrations then it's better I go to the gym for exercise.
The medition part am I doing as the last thing, first I recite surah al-fatiha and read some from Quran. Then praise my God and ask for His forgivness etc. Then I medtate and relax my mind and body.
Maria
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peace,
So, do you mean that meditation not fit in because it is not mentioned in Quran?
It is not clearly mentioned. It's possible you could get a verse or two where it is a possibility. I primarily meant it does fit the chracteristics / the attributes of "salat" that The Quran talks about. There is tons of info on "salat" in The Quran. In fact, so much so that it would take someone weeks just to study what it says about it. It took me several months.
The medition part am I doing as the last thing, first I recite surah al-fatiha and read some from Quran. Then praise my God and ask for His forgivness etc. Then I medtate and relax my mind and body.
Ahh, well, this isn't equating 'salat' with 'meditation', this is other things along with 'meditation'. When you first said it, it sounded like it was just 'meditation.'
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Ever been to one of those non-denominational Protestant churches where there is a massive crowd of people lined up in pews, all worshipping GOD in different ways? Some are shouting, some are playing instruments, some laying on the floor, some doing backflips... there's usually a pastor up on the stage also, although, I don't know if you could say he's "leading" them... but they're all in rows, even if they're doing it differently ).
Thank you rsw for your humble response. I don't have a problem with people praying differently. Even sunni's have varying methods of prayer. So I wasn't actually trying to justify my thoughts on why everyone should pray alike. I was merely pointing out a verse that I thought was interesting, to me at least, that may indicate a need to pray a certain way whilst in congregation. I'm only trying to study the Quran just like everyone else, not stating facts per se.
Peace peace
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In the absence of any other possible pointers towards meditation, i do believe salaat to be meditation; myself, i feel it would be unusual that (a concept such as) meditation should go unmentioned in the quran.
Before sunrise and after sunset.
Why, the traditional view holds that muhammad was in the habit of meditating (and this, perhaps, is what led to the inspirations); and unless i don't have the facts, the absence of meditation is one of sunnism's/shi'ism's biggest mysteries to me
God bless all.
alhamd li Allaah Rabb alaalameen
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What's really interesting here is that all of those claiming the Qur'an is completely detailed and no other source is needed cannot agree on anything regarding Salaat. And when I say anything I mean anything.
Is it 5 prayers?
Is it 3 prayers?
Is it 2 prayers?
Is Salaat-al Wusta a congregational prayer or just a mid-day prayer?
Is bowing and prostating necessary?And of course let's not forget the ones who say that Salat doesn't mean prayer at all.
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What's really interesting here is that all of those claiming the Qur'an is completely detailed and no other source is needed cannot agree on anything regarding Salaat. And when I say anything I mean anything.
Is it 5 prayers?
Is it 3 prayers?
Is it 2 prayers?
Is Salaat-al Wusta a congregational prayer or just a mid-day prayer?
Is bowing and prostating necessary?And of course let's not forget the ones who say that Salat doesn't mean prayer at all.
Maybe cause it really doesn't matter, and most agree between 3 or 5 prayers, and most bow, but we put more emphasis on the prayer itself, you don't just pray just because you have to
985 And they have been commanded no more than this To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight.
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Maybe cause it really doesn't matter, and most agree between 3 or 5 prayers, and most bow, but we put more emphasis on the prayer itself, you don't just pray just because you have to
985 And they have been commanded no more than this To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight.
You say it doesn't matter, but if the Qur'an says that Salat is something we have to do, how can you say it doesn't matter what Salat actually is or how many times we do it?
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You say it doesn't matter, but if the Qur'an says that Salat is something we have to do, how can you say it doesn't matter what Salat actually is or how many times we do it?
Qur'an says it is something we must do I agree, I never said it doesn't matter what Salat is...I think since salat is suppose to be your personal bond with GOD you should read the qur'an and whatever you get from it, is what you should do.
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Qur'an says it is something we must do I agree, I never said it doesn't matter what Salat is...I think since salat is suppose to be your personal bond with GOD you should read the qur'an and whatever you get from it, is what you should do.
You say it is something we must do, and then you say that we should do whatever we get from it. What about those who say Salat isn't prayer at all? I mean, it doesn't make much sense to me. You can't simply say that whatever we get from the Qur'an is the right thing.
Some people believe that "Obey God and obey the Messenger" means to follow hadeeth. If that's how they understood that command, then by your logic they should follow the hadeeth. After all, that's what they got from it (the Qur'an).
I just don't understand the logic. I agree that some things could be left to a bit of interpretation, if they are not repeated over and over. However, Salat is clearly something that the Qur'an commands for all of us to do, and it seems that every 3rd person or so on this board has a completely different opinion on what Salat actually is.
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Peace,
The observance of salaat has been disputed for so long because many people neglect the ideology that, as the Quran says, God's sunna (way) is unchangeable. The system outlined in the Quran is the same religion decreed to Abraham and the patriarchs, Moses, David, Jesus, and the Israelite prophets. All of these people, in the Torah, are described as praying THREE times per day, bowing and prostrating, facing a general direction (in the case of the Jews, that direction was toward Jerusalem), and dedicating all prayer and worship to God ALONE... The description of "salaat al wusta" is obviously referring to a daily middle prayer, and although it may be held by an entire congregation, there's no passage making it inappropriate on an individual basis.
Peace,
Ahmad
