The Shahada
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Peace
If I'm 100% sure that Mohamed is a Prophet and Messenger of God, then can I testify?no you cant, in order to testify you ahve to be a witness, did you witness his prophethood or messengership........why you so obsessed with mohamad anyway, and if we dont testify does that make us non muslims, does islam belong to god or to mohamad
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Peace BelH,
Believing is a mentality, an acknowledgement. Testifying, however, is an act of worship.
Believing is far from ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, and Testifying is not ACT OF WORSHIPING. Do you Acknowledge the Quran only? or do you act upon the Quran-Believing?
How can testifying that the one who wrote the Quran is a Messenger (A HUMAN BEING) of God be act of Worshiping confused
So these people on the following verse were committing Sin when testifying
3 86 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they Testified that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Here it shows that Testifying was a common thing between the people who accepted Mohamed as a Prophet of God
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say ?We bear witness that you are the messenger of God.? And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
Now, Do you consider this Shrik? How can you say about God what you do not Have knowledge of? What is your prove from Quran that this is Shrik? And if you do not have a well-established prove, then I advice you to not Follow Rashad Kalifa Advice Blindly as you did with deleting 9-128 and 129.
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How can testifying that the one who wrote the Quran is a Messenger (A HUMAN BEING) of God be act of Worshiping confused
So these people on the following verse were committing Sin when testifying
3 86 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they Testified that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Here it shows that Testifying was a common thing between the people who accepted Mohamed as a Prophet of God
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say ?We bear witness that you are the messenger of God.? And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
Now, Do you consider this Shrik? How can you say about God what you do not Have knowledge of? What is your prove from Quran that this is Shrik? And if you do not have a well-established prove, then I advice you to not Follow Rashad Kalifa Advice Blindly as you did with deleting 9-128 and 129.
why would we have to prove that shahada other to god is shirk, you just brought the proof yourself
both ayat is talking about kufar and monafiqeen, -
Peace All
This what I just learned
Testifying upon something is a result of Believing in this thing.
When God says that Believers are the Ones who believe in the Unseen, then God expect the Believers to Testify that the Unseen is True.
One of the Unseen is the Title of Messenger ship and Prophet hood of Mohamed (PBUH), Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Ismael, Jacob..etc.why would we have to prove that shahada other to god is shirk, you just brought the proof yourself
both ayat is talking about kufar and monafiqeen,I have learned, when I was debating with you about 9-128 and 129 should not be deleted from Quran, that you follow Rashad Kalifa Blindly, which shows in your above short sighted reply. Thus, there is no point of debating with a blind.
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How can testifying that the one who wrote the Quran is a Messenger (A HUMAN BEING) of God be act of Worshiping confused
So, you're saying that testifying about the messenger (through al-shahaada) is NOT an act of worship? Then why do you have to do it? All the things you are required to do in your religion, including recitation of al-shahaada, are considered acts of worship. And all acts of worship should be dedicated to God ALONE, not to the prophets and messengers.
And if you do not have a well-established prove, then I advice you to not Follow Rashad Kalifa Advice Blindly as you did with deleting 9-128 and 129.
I see you are clearly promoting your ignorance and arrogance. When did you EVER hear of me blindly accepting anything? I did extensive research in the matter of the code 19, and I didn't blindly follow any religious guidance without carefully examining it. If you believe that 9128, 129 are actually the authenticated words of God, then you obviously haven't read the verses carefully... But regardless, this is about the shahaada and testifying regarding the prophets and messengers. So, my question is this Since the Quran is complete and fully detailed, why isn't your shahaada (i.e. "Ash-hadu an la ilaaha illa Allah wa'ash-hadu an Muhammad ar-rasuwlu Allah") in the Quran?
Peace,
Ahmad
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when I was debating with you about 9-128 and 129 should not be deleted from Quran, that you follow Rashad Kalifa Blindly, which shows in your above short sighted reply. Thus, there is no point of debating with a blind.
it seems that we have managed to bring you enough ayat to prove you otherwise about shahada, where youwere only able to bring the only 2 ayat that speak of monafiqeen and kufar, now you either take all of the quran or none......
i might wear glasses but thank you i am anything but blind...i have learned one thing about debating, when put in a corner, it resorts to put downs,
thank you, blieve what you want my dear lakom dinakom wali dini -
Peace
If I'm 100% sure that Mohamed is a Prophet and Messenger of God, then can I testify?What to talk of his messengership, you can not even testify about his existence, moreover if you come up with such a testification in any court of law on this planet, You will definitely be proven a liar in cross questioning.
To add, english word "testify" is not equvilant of "shahida" in arabic, which means , a first hand /or real experience, that is why you are told to "believe" in him, not shahida about him, God does not want to press you for a technical lie.
3-86 How shall God Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Apostle was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but God guides not a people unjust.
The above aya is talking about those people who were actually present then, and who witnessed (shahda) the truth being presented by Mohammad(pbuh) yet later they converted back.
It does not talk about any testification of his prophethood.
siki
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It does not talk about any testification of his prophethood.
siki
When the hypocrites come unto thee, they say We bear witness that thou art indeed Allah's messenger. And Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the hypocrites indeed are liars.
(631) The glorious opening of a 'surah' dedicated to the hypocrites.
Well according to Quran, the shahada is obviously a clear sign of hypocrisy.. period..
Having said that, as time progress, it seems that those arab hypocrites who loved to refer themselves as "the knowledgeable" (Ulema) eventually get the upper hand and wrote many falsehood and lies which being continously dogmatized, doctrinized and faithfully embraced by millions of people who called themselves muslims for many centuries up until today.
"Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts Which devour widows? houses, and for a pretence make long prayers these shall receive greater damnation."
-- Iashua Ha Mossiach, Mark 1238-40 -
When the hypocrites come unto thee, they say We bear witness that thou art indeed Allah's messenger. And Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the hypocrites indeed are liars.
(631) The glorious opening of a 'surah' dedicated to the hypocrites.
Well according to Quran, the shahada is obviously a clear sign of hypocrisy.. period..
Peace all
Reread the verse; can you note that God, at the end of the verse says "The Hypocrites Indeed are Lairs"
Now, why God called them Liars and not Moshrkeen, when saying the Shahada)?............ confused
Let me tell you why? Because the Hypocrites do not mean what they say.... They testify that Mohamed is
the Messenger of God, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts (The Hypocrites Sign).What to talk of his messengership, you can not even testify about his existence, moreover if you come up with such a testification in any court of law on this planet, You will definitely be proven a liar in cross questioning.
How about in your court of Law, would you believe me? would you believe that Mohamed is a Prophet of God?
3-86 How shall God Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Apostle was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but God guides not a people unjust.
The above aya is talking about those people who were actually present then, and who witnessed (shahda) the truth being presented by Mohammad(pbuh).
So, Saying the Shahda or Testifying about the Prophet was a common and required act by any person who accepts The Quran.
So, why some people, such Ahamed and anna and Edip, are calling it an act of Shrik? Do they have new Revelation from God that calls that Act "Shrik"? -
So, you're saying that testifying about the messenger (through al-shahaada) is NOT an act of worship? Then why do you have to do it? All the things you are required to do in your religion, including recitation of al-shahaada, are considered acts of worship. And all acts of worship should be dedicated to God ALONE, not to the prophets and messengers.
I worship God by being Mercy to My Dad and Mom, should I Stop?
Worshiping = Obeying
Worshiping God = Obeying God Commandments -
How about in your court of Law, would you believe me? would you believe that Mohamed is a Prophet of God?
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Salaam
We can not single out prophet Mohammad in our shahadaas as we are not allowed to discriminate among prophets. So any one who wants to testify should include all prophets, naming each one as a part of the shahada. For us to say he was the last prophet in the line of all the prophets who passed away before him would be inclusive of all, as well as acknowledgement that he is not among us anymore.
So, Saying the Shahda or Testifying about the Prophet was a common and required act by any person who accepts The Quran.
As I understand this was the requirement for those who lived at the same time as the prophet, in order to join him they had to testify him as the prophet and ask others to do the same.
So, why some people, such Ahamed and anna and Edip, are calling it an act of Shrik? Do they have new Revelation from God that calls that Act "Shrik"?
Prophet Mohammad died like the rest of the prophets, to give shahada that he IS the prophet of God indicates that he is still alive and still prophet over us, thus it would come under shirk.
peace -
Peace all
Reread the verse; can you note that God, at the end of the verse says "The Hypocrites Indeed are Lairs"
Now, why God called them Liars and not Moshrkeen, when saying the Shahada)?............ confused
Let me tell you why? Because the Hypocrites do not mean what they say.... They testify that Mohamed is
the Messenger of God, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts (The Hypocrites Sign).Even saying such testimony is an act of the hypocrites, the act of a liars.. the argument will be described below..
How about in your court of Law, would you believe me? would you believe that Mohamed is a Prophet of God?
If you (or someone else) bearing a testimony in the court of law that he/she believes that a guy named Mohammed is a prophet of God.
Then.- Which Mohammad are they talkin' bout? There are millions of Mohammad nowadays.
- If he/she refer to a guy named Mohammad which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, unless he/she is around +1400 years of age, then it is a false testimony, he/she has surely comitted a lie in the court of law (a liar), as it is impossible he/she met this Muhammad guy who lived and died around 1400 years ago.
- If this Mohammad he/refers to is NOT a guy which which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, and happens to be a famous american boxer named Muhammad Ali (for example) which he/she has closely met, and he/she believes that his/her friend, this Muhammad Ali The Boxer is indeed the prophet of God. Then it is of course a TRUE testimony as he/she is entitled to believe in anything that he/she wanted to believe, and his/her right of doing so is protected by law... well at least by law on some secular countries.
So, Saying the Shahda or Testifying about the Prophet was a common and required act by any person who accepts The Quran.
No it isn't, shahada is bullshit (Please excuse my french)..
A sectarian concept deviced by some Sunni/Shia scribes/ulema/priest centuries ago..So, why some people, such Ahamed and anna and Edip, are calling it an act of Shrik? Do they have new Revelation from God that calls that Act "Shrik"?
Agree with you on this one...
Saying bullshit (please excuse my french), is not a crime..
They can say any bullshit (again, please excuse my french) that they wanted..
But of course they're definitely qualified as a liar...Salam / Peace
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Even saying such testimony is an act of the hypocrites, the act of a liars.. the argument will be described below..
If you (or someone else) bearing a testimony in the court of law that he/she believes that a guy named Mohammed is a prophet of God.
Then.- Which Mohammad are they talkin' bout? There are millions of Mohammad nowadays.
- If he/she refer to a guy named Mohammad which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, unless he/she is around +1400 years of age, then it is a false testimony, he/she has surely comitted a lie in the court of law (a liar), as it is impossible he/she met this Muhammad guy who lived and died around 1400 years ago.
- If this Mohammad he/refers to is NOT a guy which which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, and happens to be a famous american boxer named Muhammad Ali (for example) which he/she has closely met, and he/she believes that his/her friend, this Muhammad Ali The Boxer is indeed the prophet of God. Then it is of course a TRUE testimony as he/she is entitled to believe in anything that he/she wanted to believe, and his/her right of doing so is protected by law... well at least by law on some secular countries.
No it isn't, shahada is bullshit (Please excuse my french)..
A sectarian concept deviced by some Sunni/Shia scribes/ulema/priest centuries ago..Agree with you on this one...
Saying bullshit (please excuse my french), is not a crime..
They can say any bullshit (again, please excuse my french) that they wanted..
But of course they're definitely qualified as a liar...
Very rational post, Jafar. Muslims are the only ones on earth that are continuing to drumbeat upon their ancient foolish and distorted belief systems. -
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Salaam
We can not single out prophet Mohammad in our shahadaas as we are not allowed to discriminate among prophets.
Peace all
Farida, we are talking about the shahada for the New Moslems and not about the existing Moslems. I say if a Christian, who believes in God and Jesus and Moses and all prophets, wants to become a Moslem, He or she will have to complete what is missing in His submission to God--accepting Mohamed as a Prophet.Otherwise, what would you ask the Christian to do in order to become a Moslem?
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Even saying such testimony is an act of the hypocrites, the act of a liars.. the argument will be described below..
If you (or someone else) bearing a testimony in the court of law that he/she believes that a guy named Mohammed is a prophet of God.
Then.- Which Mohammad are they talkin' bout? There are millions of Mohammad nowadays.
- If he/she refer to a guy named Mohammad which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, unless he/she is around +1400 years of age, then it is a false testimony, he/she has surely comitted a lie in the court of law (a liar), as it is impossible he/she met this Muhammad guy who lived and died around 1400 years ago.
- If this Mohammad he/refers to is NOT a guy which which supposedly lived and died around 1400 years ago, and happens to be a famous american boxer named Muhammad Ali (for example) which he/she has closely met, and he/she believes that his/her friend, this Muhammad Ali The Boxer is indeed the prophet of God. Then it is of course a TRUE testimony as he/she is entitled to believe in anything that he/she wanted to believe, and his/her right of doing so is protected by law... well at least by law on some secular countries.
No it isn't, shahada is bullshit (Please excuse my french)..
A sectarian concept deviced by some Sunni/Shia scribes/ulema/priest centuries ago..Agree with you on this one...
Saying bullshit (please excuse my french), is not a crime..
They can say any bullshit (again, please excuse my french) that they wanted..
But of course they're definitely qualified as a liar...Salam / Peace
Peace All
I have provided verses to prove that the act of saying the Shahadda was common during prophet time3 86 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they Testified that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say ?We bear witness that you are the messenger of God.? And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
Now you have provided non-quranic evidences (bullshit ;D excuse my French) to support your argument; Jafar, my advice to you and everybody, only Quran can dictate and not you.
I will agree with you if you bring me the Truth from the Book, as I did. Let us be a true believers and accept the Quran as our Final and decisive Judgment. Let us cut the aggressive language between us so we can focus and find the truth.
yes -
Peace all
Farida, we are talking about the shahada for the New Moslems and not about the existing Moslems. I say if a Christian, who believes in God and Jesus and Moses and all prophets, wants to become a Moslem, He or she will have to complete what is missing in His submission to God--accepting Mohamed as a Prophet.Otherwise, what would you ask the Christian to do in order to become a Moslem?
a new muslim and old muslim a green one or purple a fat one or skinny one, one from outter spaces one from the deep waters anywhere anything you want muslim, you are right belH you can do shahada for mohamad, IT IS ONLY TRUE BELIVERS AND MO2MININ WHO DO NOT DO SHAHADA FOR MOHAMAD,
LA TAQOOL MO2MIN QOOL MUSLIM 7ATA YOU2MIN BILLAH
SO UNTIL YOU START BELEIVEING AND DOING SHAHADA FOR GOD ALONE YOU ARE STILL AT THE LEVEL OF A MUSLIM -
SO UNTIL YOU START BELEIVEING AND DOING SHAHADA FOR GOD ALONE YOU ARE STILL AT THE LEVEL OF A MUSLIM
I do not do shahada (the one under debate in this thread) any more, I was born Moslem. But when I left the Hadiths Sect, I Retook the Shahada by saying "I Submit only to Allah"
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I do not do shahada any more, I was born Moslem.
so was i, not only a muslim but my father was a shiekh so yes we did shahada for mohamad everytime we prayed, i stopped when i became a true mo2min, a submitter..........
and if you dont do shahada as you claim, why are you wasting everybodies time with something you know is wrong, and if you were born a muslim, and still do shahada, you are still a muslim and have not been promoted to a mu2min yet.... so please allah yi5alik jarib 2i2ra lkalam 2abil ma trod 3al posts -
so was i, not only a muslim but my father was a shiekh so yes we did shahada for mohamad everytime we prayed, i stopped when i became a true mo2min, a submitter..........
and if you dont do shahada as you claim, why are you wasting everybodies time with something you know is wrong, and if you were born a muslim, and still do shahada, you are still a muslim and have not been promoted to a mu2min yet.... so please allah yi5alik jarib 2i2ra lkalam 2abil ma trod 3al postsPlease reread my post (after I audited); moreover, we are debating about the Shahadda for the new Moslems.