The Shahada

anthonywallace

I chose it because it has every thing believers should endorse to complete their submission. But maybe you have something else in mind; share it Brother.

I think to bear witness that there is no god but God is the greatest testimony of all.

belH

no it was not......and i explained to you why, and i will teil you again incase you didnt understand my arabic writing, the reason god did shahada that the monafiqeen are liars is because they were trying to do fitna they wanted people to add mohamad so as people would pull away from the idea of god alone,

Free-Minds Translation

In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say ?We bear witness that you are the messenger of God.? And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
632 They have chosen their oath as a deceit, thus they repel from the path of God. Miserable indeed is what they do.
633 That is because they believed, then disbelieved. Hence, their hearts are sealed; they do not understand.
634 And when you see them, you are impressed by their physical stature; and when they speak, you listen to their eloquence. They are like blocks of wood propped-up. They think that every call is intended for them. These are the enemies, so beware of them. May God condemn them; they have deviated.
635 And if they are told ?Come and let the messenger of God ask for your forgiveness,? they turn aside their heads, and you see them walking away in pride.

When reading the above, please note in 63-2, the word "Their Oath"; What was the Oath they Took in 63-1?
Moreover, 63-3, please note "They believed...then disbelieved"; What was their first act that implied their Believing? is it the first act of 63-1, the Shahada?
Finally, would you call 63-5 act of asking the prophet to ask God for their forgiveness is "SHIRIK"?

belH

I think to bear witness that there is no god but God is the greatest testimony of all.

Peace
You are right; but Saten Testifies that there is no God but God, why God still Condemns him ?
Because, He did not Obey God. Thus, Saying there is no God but God without obeying Him will not save us. But 2-285 is what will save us, which has every thing we need to do.

Hope

I think to bear witness that there is no god but God is the greatest testimony of all.

(&#65279

The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His Messengers "We make no distinction between one and another of His Messengers." And they say "We hear and we obey; Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." (2-285)

I would add to the above, this command from God

2136 "Say we believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them and to Him we submit.?

truthseeker11

Peace Hope,

The discussion is not about declaration of faith/trust/imaan but testifying/witnessing/shahada according to al-quran.

Hope

Peace Hope,

The discussion is not about declaration of faith/trust/imaan but testifying/witnessing/shahada according to al-quran.

Peace Truthseeker11

Yes, i understand )

But i used this verse , to clarify what god has ORDERED us to SAY, he didnt order us to SAY shahada.

This is my humble understainding so far.

truthseeker11

Peace Hope,

Testifying/witnessing that there is no god but God is only for God Himself, the controllers, and those with knowledge

318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the controllers, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.

All others are excluded even from bearing witness that there is no god but God!

Hope

Peace Hope,

Testifying/witnessing that there is no god but God is only for God Himself, the controllers, and those with knowledge

318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the controllers, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.

All others are excluded even from bearing witness that there is no god but God!

Peace truthseeker11

Sure there is no god but God, i think God wants us to believe in that and act accordingely , not to testify.

my humble understanding so far.

What is the defination of those with knowledge according to the quraan??

belH

Peace Hope,

Testifying/witnessing that there is no god but God is only for God Himself, the controllers, and those with knowledge

318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the controllers, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.

All others are excluded even from bearing witness that there is no god but God!

Peace
So, your argument is to not only exclude Mohamed and all the other profit from our testifying, but also God. Is that true?

Peace truthseeker11

What is the defination of those with knowledge according to the quraan??

God Question? Can I say that they are the ones who are knowledgeable of the book.

Mr_Deen

These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will

Do we understand something from this? or we have to debate the issue in detail. If some one has time he or she can read the thread "Praise be to Muhammad Rasul Allah" before discussing.

Please try to understand what is "Shahada" and at time of Prophet Muhammad why it was necessary to bear the witness for one who enetered the religon of Allah.

Yes, we all know the verse about not making a distinction between the messengers.
However, the effect of shahadah seems to resemble what is mentioned in 3945 for some.

Yusuf Ali When Allah, the One and Only, is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are filled with disgust and horror; but when (gods) other than He are mentioned, behold, they are filled with joy!

I guess some only see...

I testify that there is no GOD and MOHAMMAD is his messsenger

and they rejoyce, with love for their beloved idol.

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace BelH,

Saying the Shahadda was common during the prophet time

If it was a practice that was supposed to be practiced by all the believers, then Allah would've definately preserved it in His book, the Quran. So, again, I'm asking you

WHY ISN'T YOUR SHAHAADA "ASH-HADU AN LA ILAAHA ILA ALLAH W' ASH-HADU AN MUHAMMAD AR-RASUWLU ALLAH" IN THE QURAN?

If these words are actually in the Quran, then please state the verse so we can identify them. Until you can prove that this is a statement from God's guidance for us to uphold, however, you are practicing a manmade innovation, which constitutes "shirk".

Peace,

Ahmad

Raj-ah

Ahmed Bilal wrote;

Are you actually buying into your own worthless words? This doesn't make any sense at all! How do you know followers had to make a testimony about Mohammed before they entered into monotheism? If Mohammed was promoting pure monotheism, worship to GOD ALONE, why would he include his own name in a testimony dedicated to God? If we are advised not to make ANY DISTINCTION among any of the prophets and messengers, why would he tell you to say, "I bear witness that MOHAMMED is THE messenger of Allah"? Is he the only one? Stop preaching your shirk.

The Quran clearly claims to be perfect, complete, and fully detailed. Do you disagree with this? And if you agree that the Quran is what it claims to be, then
WHY ISN'T YOUR SHIRK SHAHAADA INCLUDED IN THE SCRIPTURES?

Peace,

Ahmad

You never seem to read the posts of others.
The first question I asked in my post was "How the hell is it shirk if some one say Muhammad is Rasul of Allah?"
But like your previous behavior you never bothered to answer.

Regarding distinction among messengers, you still not bothered to read the verse I quoted, for you once again
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.

Brother try to cool down start analyzing things rationally.

Did I say that it is included in Quran?

In my first post I also wrote that;
It is statement of fact and no Muslim can deny it, if I do not believe in Muhammad as Messenger of God I am not a Muslim according to Quran, if any one wants to debate it we can.

Belh have some excellent points but off course for those who understand.

Sorry Mr. Been I do not got your point?

Yes I love Muhammad and Allah loves Muhammad.
Yes Muhammad is Rasul of Allah!

and Yes
Allah has blessed some messengers more than others and Yes Allah has raised some of them to HIGHER ranks.

Now if some one is jealous with the status of Muhammad (PBUH) let him or her.

Please be assure that in any case no one; Muhammad or any one else is equivalent to or even near to God in that sense.

Allah ho Akbar

Mr_Deen

Rob-ah No, I dont gets your paingt aitheren.

-* -* -* -MOHAMMAD - -* -* -*

belH

Peace BelH,

If it was a practice that was supposed to be practiced by all the believers, then Allah would've definately preserved it in His book, the Quran. So, again, I'm asking you

WHY ISN'T YOUR SHAHAADA "ASH-HADU AN LA ILAAHA ILA ALLAH W' ASH-HADU AN MUHAMMAD AR-RASUWLU ALLAH" IN THE QURAN?

I Showed you in verses 631 and 386; please reread my analysis.

Peace all
I think many people have a psychological problem, I will call it "MohamedPhobia". I will discuss this in a different thread one day (In Shaa Allah).
This is for every one who thinks that "Testifying that Mohamed is the Prophet of God" is Shrik.

Let us take an example
If I were in any court to testify, I will Have to raise my Hand and swear that I will only say THE TRUTH and nothing BUT THE TRUTH.

What is the Truth? Who Defines the Truth? the answer is in the following verse

1082 ?And so that God will set the truth with His words, even if the criminals hate it.?

Now, did God Order the Believers (The True Submitters) to not conceal our Testimony of Truth?

2-140 ?Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs were all Jewish or Nazarene?? Say ?Are you more knowledgeable or is God?? Who is more wicked than one who conceals a testimony with him from God? God is not unaware of what you do.

Now, all of us are ordered to Testify and not conceal the Truth (God's Words). Now, Should I Testify That Prophet Mohamed, Jesus, Moses, and Abraham are God's Prophets? Or should I Conceal? Should I Conceal My Testimony for the following
3340 Mohammed was not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.

Guess what, if you keep on testifying about God's Words (all of God's Verses), you will be among the following

4386 And those whom they call on beside Him do not possess any intercession; except those who bear witness to the truth, and they fully know.
They will be the ones who will be given the permission to Intervene and ask for God's forgiveness for their loved ones.

Now Do not call Testifying with the Truth Shirk; otherwise, you are promoting your own god's words; and I and the true believers do not submit to them.

May God Bless the ones who testify with the Truth.

(I'm using Free-Minds Quran Translation)

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Raj-ah,

The first question I asked in my post was "How the hell is it shirk if some one say Muhammad is Rasul of Allah?"
But like your previous behavior you never bothered to answer.

It's not "shirk" to say that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah, and I never said it's shirk to state this.

Regarding distinction among messengers, you still not bothered to read the verse I quoted, for you once again
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.

So, you're using this verse to justify your idolization of Mohammed, by saying he's achieved a "higher rank" among the messengers? Maybe you haven't noticed, but Mohammed's name isn't even mentioned ANYWHERE in this verse at all. So, who raised Mohammed to this "high rank", YOU?

Did I say that it is included in Quran?

In my first post I also wrote that;
It is statement of fact and no Muslim can deny it, if I do not believe in Muhammad as Messenger of God I am not a Muslim according to Quran, if any one wants to debate it we can.

This is wrong. No BELIEVER can deny that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah, and nobody is disputing this. Mohammed WAS a messenger of God. Abraham was also a messenger of Allah, and I'm sure he never recited a shahaada about Mohammed; but you obviously still don't understand this basic fact. If we practice Islam/Submission and monotheism, following the "Millat Ibraheem"/Religion of Abraham, that means the rites of our rituals are the same ones that Abraham practiced. This is even confirmed in the Torah, that Abraham's salaat, zakaat, hajj, and even wudhu are practiced by submitters today. So, why are you changing the testimony that applies to ALL submitters, the declaration that there is one supreme god and He is WAAHID, by adding a prophet's name to it? This is what makes it "shirk", and the fact that it is NOT included in the Quran is proof enough that it is a manmade innovation.

Peace Belalhammad,

Reciting "al-shahaada" is considered an act of worship, and this is an undisputable fact. It must be acknowledged in order to be a true submitter and believer; so the shahaada is something that ALL submitters and believers can attest to as DEFINATE, regardless of the time period in which they lived. We, as muslims, can acknowledge Mohammed's prophethood and messengership, but Moses, who was also a submitter and believer, can't do this, because Mohammed didn't come until AFTER Moses. The same goes from Jesus, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and all the other prophets and messengers who existed before Mohammed was born and delivered the Quran... Your argument is something I already pointed out before

Say, "My Salaat, my worship practices, my life and my death are all devoted absolutely to GOD ALONE, the Lord of the universe. (6162)

Our acts of worship shouldn't be dedicated to the messengers at all; they are only for God. Placing the messengers' names in our acts of worship is blasphemy.

When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do disbelieve in the Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when others are mentioned with Him, they become satisfied. (3945)

This is a clear reference to the Sunni shahaada, in which the unbelievers are INCAPABLE of reciting the true and only shahaada (i.e. "There is no god but Allah&quot without adding Mohammed's name into it. Don't be one of these...

And you STILL haven't explained why Mohammed's name is not in the shahaada mentioned in the Quran (i.e. 31. If your shahaada is true and definate, and if it is supposed to be recited by all muslims throughout the world, WHY ISN'T IT IN THE QURAN? What you provided was your opinion on the issue, but you didn't explain this at all, and you certainly didn't show me anywhere in the Quran where your testimony is mentioned... Who created this shahaada, men or Allah? If it is created by God, then show me in the Quran where Allah testifies to this fact and encourages us to do the same...

Peace,

Ahmad

Mr_Deen

2278 Translated by Uncle Cash.

And walk in the blessed path of God, of those naturally chosen, the faith of your Father Abraham. He gave you the name, submitters, and this the messenger can testify to you, and so can you testify to the people. So practise prayers, and be beneficient, and be steadfast with God, he is your ally, a praised ally, and praised saviour.

To, me, this would rather indicate, that it was the prophet who testified to the faith of Abraham. And the people testified to it aswell.

afridi220

The correct Shahada (Testimony)

http//www.quran-islam.org/164.html

yes

Tony

Peace Tony

I agree with what you wrote, i just have a small thought that i would share.

First i want to clarify that i do not do the shehada which includes prophet Mohamed name ever since i followed the quraan alone cause God name is never associated with any other names (la illah illa allah is mentioned alone). But of course i believe in all the messengers including Mohamed without any discrimination between them.

386 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they witnessed that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.

From the above verse God didnt critisize the believers who did witness that the massenger is true.

Does that mean that people who was there should witness the messenger? if the answer is yes, so God didnt critisize the hypocrites for saying they bear witness, but cause they did not say it sincerly, they say with their tongue what is not in there hearts.

peace

Peace Hope!

That is just my rhetorical question to mean that NOT ONE OF US was there to witness when God assigned Muhammad as the messenger, so there is no point in uttering the statement that WE BEAR WITNESS THAT MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH. ITS A BLATANT LIE BEING REPEATED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Al_Khidr

Ahmed Bilal wrote;
You never seem to read the posts of others.
The first question I asked in my post was "How the hell is it shirk if some one say Muhammad is Rasul of Allah?"
But like your previous behavior you never bothered to answer.

Regarding distinction among messengers, you still not bothered to read the verse I quoted, for you once again
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.

Brother try to cool down start analyzing things rationally.

Did I say that it is included in Quran?

In my first post I also wrote that;
It is statement of fact and no Muslim can deny it, if I do not believe in Muhammad as Messenger of God I am not a Muslim according to Quran, if any one wants to debate it we can.

Belh have some excellent points but off course for those who understand.

Sorry Mr. Been I do not got your point?

Yes I love Muhammad and Allah loves Muhammad.
Yes Muhammad is Rasul of Allah!

and Yes
Allah has blessed some messengers more than others and Yes Allah has raised some of them to HIGHER ranks.

Now if some one is jealous with the status of Muhammad (PBUH) let him or her.

Please be assure that in any case no one; Muhammad or any one else is equivalent to or even near to God in that sense.

Allah ho Akbar

Salaam Raj-ah

Ahmad Bilal is correct when he says the Shahaada that you believe in "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" is shirk. Your argument was weak because the verse that you quoted below

Qur'aan 2253
These Messengers; We have given precedence to some over others. Among them are those whom Allah spoke to; and He raised some of them in ranks. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, the clear signs and supported him with Ruwh Al-Qudus (the Holy Spirit). If Allah had willed, succeeding generations would not have fought against each other, after the clear proofs have came to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. Had Allah willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with Allah?s will.

Notice that this verse says "WE" . As we can see its Allah alone who makes the distinctions and He is the Only One who has Authority to do this not us and notice that this verse uses the plural for Messenger and not just one Messenger such as Muhammad. Again Allah can make the distinction but Allah teaches in the Qur'aan that we Muslims cannot make a distinction right in the same sura that you violate with your shirk shahaada by making a distinction placing Muhammad's name in the original Shahaada

Qur'aan 2136
Say, ?We believe in Allah, and in what was revealed to us, and in what was revealed to Abraham and Ismaa?il and Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and all the Prophets from their Sustainer. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are Muslims.?

Qur'aan 2285
The Messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They all believe in Allah, His Angelic Beings, His scripture, and His Messengers ?We make no distinction among any of His Messengers.? They say, ?We hear, and we obey. Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny.?

If you believe that Muhammad's name should be in the Shahaada then produce just one verse in the Qur'aan that says I bear witness that there is no god but Allah

THIS IS A CHALLENGE THAT I KNOW YOU CANNOT LIVE UP TO.

Al_Khidr