I want to know the truth about what the Quran says about messengers

belH

In Quran Allah has clearly mentioned the systems to follow and we do not need a new "messenger" or "messengers" to tell us about those niether do these new "messengers" have to visit any town or village or city to warn them against Natrual disasters.

Peace Raj-ah and every one
First, Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) was the seal of Prophets and not Messengers--no more revelation after Quran .

Second, when analyzing the Nation of Mohamed, we will note that there are 100s of sects; they are fighting within themselves and with others (people of the Books). Now, do you see a problem?
I believe that God had and will keep inspiring whom He chooses (Messengers) to warn Humans to stick to the Book when preaching God's religion. And in our days, we see that this is happening all over the world; we see people who are saying This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah. (2-2); and when they do that, they get killed or tortured by their communities...Does that remind you with the Quranic stories in which God described killing and torturing of people who promote His Words?

May God Bless the Believers whom are preaching and protecting God's Words

WayFinder

Peace Raj-ah and every one
First, Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) was the seal of Prophets and not Messengers--no more revelation after Quran .

Second, when analyzing the Nation of Mohamed, we will note that there are 100s of sects; they are fighting within themselves and with others (people of the Books). Now, do you see a problem?
I believe that God had and will keep inspiring whom He chooses (Messengers) to warn Humans to stick to the Book when preaching God's religion. And in our days, we see that this is happening all over the world; we see people who are saying This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah. (2-2); and when they do that, they get killed or tortured by their communities...Does that remind you with the Quranic stories in which God described killing and torturing of people who promote His Words?

May God Bless the Believers whom are preaching and protecting God's Words

Peace

That is also my view on this issue and I expressed it somewhere like this on some other thread... We just cannot appoint ourselves to be DIVINELY appointed messengers... We just follow the EXAMPLE of Muhammad, warn the people and call them to Al-Islam, the deen that GOD chose for mankind... In this way, anyone can be a messenger... However, not a DIVINELY APPOINTED MESSENGER...

Regards

Allah knows best...

anthonywallace

Peace

That is also my view on this issue and I expressed it somewhere like this on some other thread... We just cannot appoint ourselves to be DIVINELY appointed messengers... We just follow the EXAMPLE of Muhammad, warn the people and call them to Al-Islam, the deen that GOD chose for mankind... In this way, anyone can be a messenger... However, not a DIVINELY APPOINTED MESSENGER...

Regards

Allah knows best...

Peace who said the messenger are divine? Or divinly appointed? God bestows His grace on whom He pleases. Some of them are narrated to you and others arnt. peace

khyaletanzim

Dear All,

The problem regarding messenger issue is that when people talk about messenger they always think about some special person for a nation with narrating verses(new or old alike). Please answer the following questions in a way that it can constitute a system and not special circumstances.

Here are few questions for those who say human messenger is not needed and Quran or Quran and sunnah is enough for guidance.

Is this not an injustice from God to the people after the era of prophet Mohammad?
Is this a justice that one group is bestowed with a living messenger and others are left to understand Quran by themselves?
The people who believe that Quran is the only guidance can show me what is the way they are on? (what i see on sights advocating Quran alone is opinions of different persons who in the end keep on finding new things all the time and they have no definite answer for anything)

Here are few questions for those who think more messenger can come.

If messengers are to come then how are you going to judge that the one who claims is the true messenger?
Messenger is for how many people? is it for a group of 50 people or is it for 5000,50000,500000 etc.
To what extent one should follow a messenger?

Regards.

belH

Here are few questions for those who think more messenger can come.

Peace all

If messengers are to come then how are you going to judge that the one who claims is the true messenger?

379

379 It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!?, rather ?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.?

Messenger is for how many people? is it for a group of 50 people or is it for 5000,50000,500000 etc.

It will vary; especially in the internet age.

To what extent one should follow a messenger?

The Quran is your final judge; in other words, any True message has to be confirmed by the Quran.

Peace

That is also my view on this issue and I expressed it somewhere like this on some other thread... We just cannot appoint ourselves to be DIVINELY appointed messengers... We just follow the EXAMPLE of Muhammad, warn the people and call them to Al-Islam, the deen that GOD chose for mankind... In this way, anyone can be a messenger... However, not a DIVINELY APPOINTED MESSENGER...

Regards

Allah knows best...

I agree; Any one can choose to work for God (God always has an opining for any one who wants to promote and defend His Messages). But they have to understand what they are promoting before promoting; they can not add or delete any thing to God's words.
Peace

anna

salam,
its funny how people are willing to accept new messengers but will not accept rashad khalifa as one........... brickwall

moslem

we have 3 so called messengers on this site alone, and they deny each other, all we can do is wait and see what proofs they have, if for me i find that it is acceptable i will take it.

Peace,
Is that true ???
Who r those 3 people ??

belH

salam,
its funny how people are willing to accept new messengers but will not accept rashad khalifa as one........... brickwall

Peace Anna
According to Quran, no one can delete or add a single verse to it; but when RK decided to delete to verses, He was wrong, and therefore, no one should follow him. Read the next verse (focus on the red part)

379 It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!?, rather ?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.?

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Anna,

its funny how people are willing to accept new messengers but will not accept rashad khalifa as one........... brickwall

What's funny to me is how people often accept Dr. Rashad Khalifa's teachings, yet they reject him because the only thing they associate with his ideologies is the alleged removal of 2 verses from the Quran. If people actually looked at the authentic ideologies of Rashad instead of judging him and claiming that he removed Quranic verses, many of them would become believers.

Peace BelH,

According to Quran, no one can delete or add a single verse to it; but when RK decided to delete to verses, He was wrong, and therefore, no one should follow him.

This is completely wrong, brother, WRONG. The scripture does NOT say that nothing can be added to or deleted from only the Quran... What do I mean by this? Let's examine the scripture...

Surely, we have revealed this scripture, and surely, we will preserve it. (159)

It's absolutely ridiculous that people interpret this to be referring to the Quran specifically. This clearly says that it will be preserved by Allah because "we have revealed this scripture"... Didn't Allah also reveal the Torah and the Gospel? Yet, you say they have been altered. Based on the context, this verse implies that ALL of God's scripture is preserved. So, why don't you believe the other scriptures to be preserved? Do you think God is a liar? Also, look at this scripture, which implies the same thing

The disbelievers rejected this message when it came to them, though it is a profound scripture. No falsehood can enter it, through addition or deletion, for it is a revelation from the Wise, the Praiseworthy. (4141-42)

This scripture states it even more plainly. It gives the statement (i.e. "No falsehood can enter it...&quot, and then it gives the reason (i.e. "for/because it is a revelation from the Wise, the Praiseworthy&quot. Now, since the Torah, Gospel, and Statute Book are all revelations from God, this means they are ALL preserved. What you are neglecting is the format in which they are preserved. According to 8522, they are kept secure in a "lawh mahfuz"/preserved tablet. So, the question is WHERE IS THIS TABLET? Is it on the Earth? Is it with Allah? Maybe you should ask yourself this. Nowhere in the Quran does it say that all the copies and translations of the scriptures would be preserved and kept from alteration. This is a ridiculous misinterpretation. It says the actual "revelations" of God (i.e. the ORIGINALS) would be preserved. For us, Allah has given us a way to determine the true words of His revelations and to separate them from the fabrications. With regards to the originals, do you know the locations of the original revelations of Allah, or do you know where the "preserved tablets" are located?

By the way, it's pretty interesting to me that this word (i.e. "lawh&quot has the same root as the word "lawaha", used in 7429, right before the words, "On it is nineteen" (7430). Is this a coincidence?

Peace,

Ahmad

anna

Peace Anna
According to Quran, no one can delete or add a single verse to it; but when RK decided to delete to verses, He was wrong, and therefore, no one should follow him. Read the next verse (focus on the red part)

379 It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!?, rather ?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.?

OK FOR THE LAST TIME HE DID NOT REMOVE ANY VERSES.......they never were part of the quran to begin with... so he never removed anything, and i have said this before the title that mohamad is given in the verse 128 can ONLY and ONLY and ONLY how many onlyies do i need to say,only belong to god..... the quran is a spiritualu book and every word in it is precise to the dot...... why in all of the quran we only find this title used for mohamad and nowhere else, and dont show me ayat i know the quran from one end to the other, second is it just concidence that bismillah is not found in that specifc chapter, or are we to assume god for the heck of it did not put bismillah, or maybe justttttttt maybe he knows the future and knew that there will bea time when someone added to the quran and this is one of the clues to prove it, not to mention there are others as in these 2 verses were makiyat and his last sermon was in madina yet the whole chapter came down in medina.... there is enough evidence to prove that these 2 verses are fake, for those who are truely sincere to the truth...
and donot tell me that god said he protected the quran and if these were not quran then he didnt protect it...... first of all gods word was protect from the day it came down and mind you these 2 verses were the last added after mohamads death but the hidden miracle which rashad khailfa discovered, discovered .... he did not wake up one day and say oh lets look for the 19 number......... it didnt go down that way
he was checking for the letters of the quran anaylizing in the computer and by concidence he discovered the code so it was the code that came to him.... as god wished it
and so through the code 19 it was yet again discovered not him waking up one day saying well im going to take some ayat out of the quran, lets see which ones should i take out today..... no no it didnt go down like that either
that these verses were not part of the quran........................................
now people can argue this till they have no breathe left in them. so be it, but it will change nothing, god is not going to change his ways because a few people are to arrogant to accept a messenger, its not bad enough they wont even look at his translation, so now even his translation is not worthy.............please people everyone elses is.....
in any case lan tahdi man a7babit inna allah yahdi man yasha2

belH

they never were part of the quran to begin with... so he never removed anything

Nowhere in the Quran does it say that all the copies and translations of the scriptures would be preserved and kept from alteration. This is a ridiculous misinterpretation. It says the actual "revelations" of God (i.e. the ORIGINALS) would be preserved.

Peace all
I have request for you (anna and Bilal, and any 19ers), can you answer the following

First, did RK remove 9-128 & 129 from the Quran that He Believed in and then called the new version the Pure Quran, or did He find a Version that Does not have 9-128 & 129 that He Called it the Pure Version?

Second, Would you Testify that Rashad Kalifa is a True Messenger of God?

anna

Peace all
I have request for you (anna and Bilal, and any 19ers), can you answer the following

First, did RK remove 9-128 & 129 from the Quran that He Believed in and then called the new version the Pure Quran, or did He find a Version that Does not have 9-128 & 129 that He Called it the Pure Version?

Would you Testify that Rashad Kalifa is a True Messenger of God?
)

i am a submitter, i submit myself to god alone and his last chapter of the mother book that lays with god in heaven
i beleive rashad was a messenger of god and no i dont have the, what quran was it? i have never heard of any version of the quran this is the first time i hear about it, but just so you know i have my own quran that i recieved 20 years ago as a wedding gift and if you look at chapter 9 in my quran i have the last to verses whited out......as of 5 years ago when i submitted
as a submitter i truley beleive that those 2 verses ARE NOT the word of god...................tsk tsk tsk am i hated now.... god says if the world is against you and you are rightous then god is with you... who else do i possibly need,absolutley NOONE.................
by the way im not a 19er or a quranist, or quran aloner, i am a submitter, beleive the only source to connect with god is the quran the last chapter... god tells us, INNA LDEEN 3INDILLAH HOWA L2ISLAMMMMM or in english SUBMISSION
i hope that answered your question

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace BelH,

First, did RK remove 9-128 & 129 from the Quran that He Believed in and then called the new version the Pure Quran, or did He find a Version that Does not have 9-128 & 129 that He Called it the Pure Version?

First of all, Dr. Khalifa didn't remove any verses from the Quran. I already explained this entire concept to you... When Rashad developed his translation, he admitted that his work was far from perfect. However, when he called it "pure", he was referring to it being free from fabricated verses. In other words, his translation was purely proportionate, and everything in it was verified by the Quran's proof.

Second, Would you Testify that Rashad Kalifa is a True Messenger of God?

I've already answered this for you as well. Allah is enough as a witness of His messengers, so I don't need to testify regarding his messengership. My shahaada is, "La ilaaha ila Allah" (There is no god but Allah).

Peace,

Ahmad

mmkhan

Salaamun All,

Peace all
I have request for you (anna and Bilal, and any 19ers), can you answer the following

First, did RK remove 9-128 & 129 from the Quran that He Believed in and then called the new version the Pure Quran, or did He find a Version that Does not have 9-128 & 129 that He Called it the Pure Version?

Second, Would you Testify that Rashad Kalifa is a True Messenger of God?

)

These testifications does not required actually. As Allah said

11120 AND out of all the accounts relating to the Messengers We convey unto thee that wherewith We make firm thy heart for through these comes the truth unto thee, as well as an admonition and a reminder unto all believers.

(11120)

When everything is told about THE Messengers, then what is the use of sending new THE Messengers?

Apart from that, Allah also said

53 FORBIDDEN to you is carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that over which any name other than God's has been invoked, and the animal that has been strangled, or beaten to death, or killed by a fall, or gored to death, or savaged by a beast of prey, save that which you may have slaughtered while it was still alive; and all that has been slaughtered on idolatrous altars. And to seek to learn through divination what the future may hold in store for you this is sinful conduct. Today, those who , are bent on denying the truth have lost all hope of your religion do not, then, hold them in awe, but stand in awe of Me! Today have I perfected your religious law for you, and have bestowed upon you the full measure of My blessings, and willed that self-surrender unto Me shall be your religion. As for him, however, who is driven by dire necessity and not by an inclination to sinning -behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

(53)

Do you think still THE Messengers can come. Rasools will come till the end of this world but ALRasools will not. This is what I believe.

Allah knows best.

Khan

moslem

by the way im not a 19er or a quranist, or quran aloner, i am a submitter, believe the only source to connect with god is the quran...
GOD tells us, INNA LDEEN 3INDILLAH HOWA L2ISLAMMMMM or in english SUBMISSION

WAW
Peace sister, i have became a fan of u ... )

anna

WAW
Peace sister, i have became a fan of u ... )

angel you sweet, i will give you my fanclub email....

unknownuser

i am a submitter, i submit myself to god alone and his last chapter of the mother book that lays with god in heaven
i beleive rashad was a messenger of god and no i dont have the, what quran was it? i have never heard of any version of the quran this is the first time i hear about it, but just so you know i have my own quran that i recieved 20 years ago as a wedding gift and if you look at chapter 9 in my quran i have the last to verses whited out......as of 5 years ago when i submitted
as a submitter i truley beleive that those 2 verses ARE NOT the word of god...................tsk tsk tsk am i hated now.... god says if the world is against you and you are rightous then god is with you... who else do i possibly need,absolutley NOONE.................
by the way im not a 19er or a quranist, or quran aloner, i am a submitter, beleive the only source to connect with god is the quran the last chapter... god tells us, INNA LDEEN 3INDILLAH HOWA L2ISLAMMMMM or in english SUBMISSION
i hope that answered your question

It is fairly sad that you feel the only way you can connect to our creator is through a book you most likely can barely read. Apologies if I'm wrong.

anna

It is fairly sad that you feel the only way you can connect to our creator is through a book you most likely can barely read. Apologies if I'm wrong.

technically its not the only way but it is the strongest, i like meditating late at night and just sitting with him, all alone...
and its not just a book, it his book his words, actually im bad at reading, i have managed to read it oh maybe a 100 times or so from beginning to end in arabic..if not more, so yes you are right im not very good at reading

khyaletanzim

Dear aalmakto,

Here is my understanding regarding the messenger matter. First of all let me summarize my Understanding "In the system of God everyone including prophets is told to follow living messenger in their time". Now i am going to prove my understanding from logic and the Quran.

logically it will be an injustice from God to all the other humans if that is not the case.

Starting with Quranic perspective.

Rashid Khalifa 238 We said, "Go down there from, all of you. When guidance comes to you from me, those who follow my guidance will have no fear, nor will they grieve.
We can easily conclude from the above verse that the Guidance is sure to come and it comes to the people from the God.

Now we have to determine that what are the types of guidance and how many. I have found two kind of guidance?s which are -

Basic guidance.
Explained guidance.
Let?s start with the basic guidance. Basic guidance is given through the clear verses of the book of God (Quran) and the explained guidance is through knowledge. The following verse explained in detail about both the guidance.

Khalifa 37 He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbour doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.
According to my understanding the basic or the clear message is the part of the book which is indisputable when translated. When one tries to translate the clear or basic verses (signs) he will come to the conclusion that meanings remains the same.

In my understanding, basic understanding can be achieved by reading the basic or clear verses by anyone who reads the Quran but for the complete understanding(regarding allegoric verses) you need a knowledgeable person for explanation.

2269 He grants wisdom to whom He pleaseth; and he to whom wisdom is granted receiveth indeed a benefit overflowing; but none will grasp the Message but men of understanding.
The above verse confirms that wisdom can be given to any human selected by God. In my understanding Messenger is the knowledgeable person. The necessity of the messenger is only to understand the message of the Quran completely. You can say when one wants to understand the God's system completely he needs the help of a messenger or knowledgeable person for complete understanding.

Next step is to find out how many kinds of messengers are there. For this please read the following verse
2275 God chooses messengers from angels and from men for God is He who hears and sees (all things).

Now we know that there are two kinds of messengers.

Human as a messenger
Angel as a messenger.

Khalifa 4034 Joseph had come to you before that with clear revelations, but you continued to doubt his message. Then, when he died you said, "GOD will not send any other messenger after him. (He was the last messenger)!" GOD thus sends astray those who are transgressors, doubtful.
The above verse is directly talking to the reader of the Quran because it says ?to you? which is the reader of the Quran. In the above verse it is clearly mentioned that those who say that no messenger will come after any of the messengers mentioned in Quran makes the person astray from the path of God.

3101 And how would ye deny Faith while unto you are rehearsed the Signs of God, and among you Lives the Apostle? Whoever holds firmly to God will be shown a way that is straight.
If you carefully read the above verse then you will find that verse is mentioning two points together and those points are 1. Verses are rehearsed to the people. 2. Apostle lives among the people. These two points coming together clearly gives an understanding that messenger is always there living among people. Verses 735 and 9128 clearly conclude that God tells us that ?messenger comes to the people or messenger lives among them? and it is a present situation not past or future matter.

God again tells us in the following parable the same message. The following verse clarifies that following one person (messenger or ordinary) is better than following many persons with different ideas and those men fight between themselves. Please do not confuse the two words believing and following.
3929 God puts forth a Parable a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to God! But most of them have no knowledge.]

Duty of the messenger is to preach or explain clearly 592 Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil) if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.Also see 1635, 1682, 2454, 2918, 3617 and 6412.

Now we come to the second part which clarifies that all the prophets were made to take oath that when the messenger will come to them (which means while they are alive) they have to follow him and help him. This verse makes it crystal clear that all the prophets took the oath of following the messenger. Following verse also clarifies that prophet and messenger are two different words.

381 Behold! God took the covenant of the prophets, saying "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you an apostle, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." God said "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said "We agree." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

In the following verse again God clearly talks about the covenant which is told in verse 381 and makes it clear that Prophet Mohammad is included in the covenant because in whole Quran there is no other covenant about prophets is mentioned therefore this verse can?t be taken as any other covenant God is talking about which in other words will dismiss the claim of so called leaders of Islam that prophet Mohammad was the last messenger because if Mohammad(PUBH) has to follow the messenger than how can he be the last messenger? For proof read the following verse.

337 Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you (O Muhammad), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.
The above verses clearly explain that all the prophets had to follow the messenger including Prophet Mohammad. This verse also clarifies that prophet Ahmad (Mohammad) was included in the covenant with the prophets therefore he also took and agreed to the covenant of following messenger.

Following are the verses which are telling us that Moses did follow a person for knowledge. In the following verses you can clearly understand that Moses (Prophet) is asking a person to let Moses follow him to get the understanding of the knowledge of God given to that person.

1865 So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence.
1866 Moses said to him "May I follow thee, on the footing that thou teach me something of the (Higher) Truth which thou hast been taught?"

Following is the verse which is hinting that prophet Ahmad (Mohammad) going to another person which is clear hint to prove the above claim that ?prophets need to follow the messenger?. The following verse also clarifies that Messenger is not God and Quran is not from the messenger but From God.
16103 we know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

Other verses which leads to the conclusion that messengers are always present at all times for guidance are following.

(2351 O you messengers, eat from the good provisions, and work righteousness. I am fully aware of everything you do.) Please note that " O you Messengers" is direct speech to the messengers and If there are no more messengers to come then this verse with a collective addressing to the messengers will be useless. You can also derive from the above verse that there are ?messengers? at all times and not one messenger.
(4051 Most, surely, we help Our Messengers and those who believe, both in the present life and on the day when the witnesses will stand forth.) This verse also includes messengers and believers together which also constitutes more believers and messenger to come.

I hope that will clarify the Doubts regarding the matter of Messenger.

Regards.

belH

I hope that will clarify the Doubts regarding the matter of Messenger.

Regards.

May God Bless you and increase your Wisdom.