Why do you beleive the Quran to be the Word of GOD?
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Peace
Because it is the truth. Why shouldnt we belive in the truth that has come to us? And we yearn that our Lord joins us with the righteous peopkle.
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Salaam Ahmed Bilal
First of all make it clear that Quran has NOT CHANGED, the article you mention does not support your views.
Let us see what does recognized scholars have to say about these scribal errors mentioned in article.In short, the claim of so-called scribal errors in the Qur'?n is not only ridiculous but also a fanciful imagination of an extremely ignorant person.
In the following article, we contemplate giving some clues in answer to the strange claims made by Mr. Newton on the scribal issues of the Qur'?n.
In short, the author of that page notices rightfully that the spelling of many words in the Holy Qur'?n does not match their spelling in modern literature. He wishes to prove that the Qur'?n is not miraculous and uses scribal pecularities to support his claims. He, of course, seems to be unaware of the way the Arabic script developed due to many reasons, the primary one being the correct pronunciation of the letters in the Qur'?n.
The introduction of tashk?l and as well as tanw?n signs was, to facilitate the correct reading of the Qur'?n. A superfluous change in the script does not mean it is corrupted.
An excellent example which shows how the Arabic script progressed is the writing of the letter q?f on the Dome of the Rock. The letter q?f is marked by one stroke below it five times on the Dome of the Rock, whereas today, q?f is written with two dots on top. Examples of this kind can only be found in early copies of the Qur'?ns.The script of any language (not only Arabic) is subject to many changes and amendments agreed upon by the users of that language throughout history. Writing being a communication tool, the script must be devoid of ambiguity so that the information carried gets from the sender to the recepient without ambiguity. Once in a while, linguists decide to change certain scribal rules in order to simplify the script. For instance, a recent amendment in Arabic script occurred in the middle of the 1980's. It concerned the rules of drawing the hamzah. Originally, in some cases, the hamzah was drawn on a w?w letter and was followed by a long vowel w?w, thus putting two consecutive w?ws in the same word. In this regard, Arab linguists decided to eliminate the first w?w and draw the hamzah either on the line or on a hook (nabirah) followed by the second w?w.
The same applies to many other words like mas'?liyyah (i.e., responsibility) or sho'?n (i.e., concerns). So, what do we have here? If the argument of the critic was acceptable then the Arabic literature published before 1985 would be full of errors! Actually, the script being a matter of conventions, one cannot say that books older than 1985 are full of mispelled words while the ones published after that date are correct. In reality, both are correct given the scribal conventions prevailing in their time. It doesn't make sense to judge written material based on conventions other than the ones in which it was written.It is noteworthy that the Qur'?n is written according to the cUthm?nic scribal conventions (rasm) and not according to the modern conventions. After learning the conventions of the cUthm?nic script (it is as easy as any alternative convention), any reader is able to read the Holy Qur'?n correctly. This means that the message of the Qur'?n is entirely transmitted from the hardcopy to the reader without ambiguity. It is also noteworthy that the modern script still bears many anomalies that could be amended later. For example, words like dh?lik or l?kin ought to be written with alif letters but, according to the modern scribal conventions, they are written without alif.
But even in the modern script those anomalies are not corrected. In the aforementioned elaboration, we have conclusively established that the position of the critic is both unreasonable and ill-founded. One question may remain Why don't Muslims abandon the cUthm?nic script and adopt the modern script? This question needs a separate exposition and may be too lenghty for the purpose of this article
These are pieces from an article by Mr. Saifullah and Robert Squires.
Samia, ayman or any other linguistic who can comment on this Please?
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Dear Bilal,
I know i cannot win your stubbornness with simple logic so now i am going to try another way.
In the beginning i thought that you know Arabic and that is why i wrote letters many time but you seemed to be ignoring the point which I was raising. Kindly read carefully and answer accordingly and see who is illogical, foolish and confused.
letter noun
any of the alphabetic symbolsleaser
,written or printed message sent by post or messenger
, , , , , , ,I hope now you will be able to see what i have been telling you all along. brickwall
I think if I let you understand yourself you may come up with a foolish answer as in the past so please let me explain the difference between and in case you could not understand on your own.
Any of the alphabetic symbols is called and i hope you know the plural for it.
written or printed message sent by post or messenger is called . there are many other words which come in the same category and those words are , , , , , , .
Arabic - English
speech , address , letter , note , disquisition , dispatch
say , conception , concept , view , notion
,
announcement statement,
utterance , vocable , wordvocable , utterance , word
Now please read the following verses and the translation of Khalifa in case you refuse to accept that word is not the correct translation.
22
Transliteration
Thalika alkitabu la rayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeena
Free_Minds
This is the Scripture in which there is no doubt, a guide for the righteous.
Khalifa
This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;= Ta-Qaf-Ya = to fear, be cautious, guarded, prepared, preserve, forethoughtful, reverential & pious fear (of God), righteous/virtuous/just/honest.
6115
Transliteration
Watammat kalimatu rabbika sidqan waAAadlan la mubaddila likalimatihi wahuwa alssameeAAu alAAaleemu
Free_Minds
And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
Khalifa
The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.1827
Transliteration
Waotlu ma oohiya ilayka min kitabi rabbika la mubaddila likalimatihi walan tajida min doonihi multahadan
Free_Minds
And recite what has been inspired to you from your Lord's Scripture, there is no changing His words, and you will not find besides Him any refuge.
Khalifa
You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it.I hope now you will understand that God has not promised the saving of letters but message and all the pointed problems on your article does not change the message in any way as far as my understanding is concerned. Please prove to me if my understanding is wrong but with the clear example from the article you mentioned.
Regarding the translations don't bother to tell me that they are corrupted because i already know that fact. I also know the fact that that kind of mistranslation can be caught very easily by the one who knows Arabic.
Regards.
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Salaam Raj-ah and Khyaletanzim,
This is really getting ridiculous, and both of you are showing your ignorance of GOD's message. You're basing your ridiculous arguments about the preservation of the Quran on the scripture's own words, and this is not a solid argument at all. The Quran wasn't composed only for "Muslims"; it's for everyone, a message to the entire world. Do you think everyone in the world believes in the preservation of the Quran?
Raj-ah, you said Allah has protected His message entirely, and I agree. However, you said the Quran hasn't changed at all. So, once I refuted your misguided reasoning, you try to use other means to defend your logic, even though it doesn't make any sense.
Quran was not in the book shape from day One, it took 23 years almost and people meorized slowly and surely, No chance of any deletion or addition going unnoticed on great scale.
My question is HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? If you were told something and instructed to remember it, each year adding a new statement to remember, over the course of 23 years, do you think you'd remember the initial statement? The widespread answer is NO. Those people did not go through a daily routine of reciting a 114-chapter recital, a total of 6346 verses, every single day to remember them. This is an outrageous claim!
Khyaletanzim, you claim that GOD has only protected the meanings of the verses, not the letters or words themselves... This is even more ridiculous that Raj-ah's claim. People can interpret the scripture differently, and any or all of the interpretations can be correct. The Quran is called a "preserved BOOK". So, think logically, brother. How can you preserve a book without preserving the words? And how can you preserve the words without preserving the letters? What you're implying is absurd, and it goes against plain logic.
Regarding the translations don't bother to tell me that they are corrupted because i already know that fact. I also know the fact that that kind of mistranslation can be caught very easily by the one who knows Arabic.
This is also wrong, wrong, WRONG! The Arabic translations of the Quran are NOT all the same either. So, consequentially, when you read the Arabic Quran, you are still reading a TRANSLATION, a COPY, not the original.
So, how do you either of you know the Quran is actually preserved? And saying, "Because the Quran says..." is not an acceptable answer, since this would make the Quran only for muslims, which it's not. So, how do you know? Or are you just blindly believing everything you read and hear?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Bilal,
I give up against your stubbornness and ignoring of others point of views or understandings. For God's sake tell me honestly have you answered any of my questions asked to you in previous posts?
Just saying us ridiculous will not make us one. Show me what is ridiculous in my explanation or questions and how? I never said that my understanding is the correct one but i always present reasons and logic for my understanding where you just pass your comments.
Once again look at your stupidity and false understanding.
Quote from khyaletanzim on Today at 062642 PM
Regarding the translations don't bother to tell me that they are corrupted because i already know that fact. I also know the fact that that kind of mistranslation can be caught very easily by the one who knows Arabic.
Answer from Bilal
This is also wrong, wrong, WRONG! The Arabic translations of the Quran are NOT all the same either. So, consequentially, when you read the Arabic Quran, you are still reading a TRANSLATION, a COPY, not the original.Do you understand English at all? what was my point and see what is your answer.where did i said in the above that translations are same?
Kindly explain how and what do you read? Original Quran or translation? How do you understand the Quran?
Your behavior is exactly the same as other religious fanatics. They always say
what I say is right and You are wrong.
even if others use the same logic or reasoning as they use still the answer remains the sameIf you have some dignity left then read all my previous posts and answer the questions I raised and prove it to me by either presenting your correct translations or logic where i am wrong or what is it that I have misunderstood. I don't think you will do that but still I hope that you will answer.
Regards.
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Peace Khyaletanzim,
I gave thorough explanations for all of my arguments. You are blatantly ignoring the facts, which is pretty typical of Muslims who base their beliefs on blind devotion, blind belief, and blind faith. Your arguments DON'T MAKE SENSE. That's why I'm questioning how good your knowledge of the English language is. You said
Regarding the translations don't bother to tell me that they are corrupted because i already know that fact. I also know the fact that that kind of mistranslation can be caught very easily by the one who knows Arabic.
What you obviously don't understand is the absurdity of this ridiculous argument. This mistranslation is NOT caught by the one who knows Arabic. The oldest Quranic manuscript that you read from is a TRANSLATION. You have no idea what the original scripture said by reading translations, even the Arabic ones. The oldest Quranic manuscripts possessed today by Sunni and Wahhabi scholars in Mekkah and Medinah are CORRUPTED. How hard is that to understand?
Kindly explain how and what do you read? Original Quran or translation? How do you understand the Quran?
I read a translation, just like you. Whether this translation is Arabic, English, French, Spanish, Aramaic, Italian, or Russian, it is STILL A TRANSLATION. Nobody on this Earth possesses the "original" Quran because it is with Allah. Now, regarding the translations, I've read English, Arabic, and Spanish translations of the Quran, and they all have their own flaws and mistranslations.
If you have some dignity left then read all my previous posts and answer the questions I raised and prove it to me by either presenting your correct translations or logic where i am wrong or what is it that I have misunderstood. I don't think you will do that but still I hope that you will answer.
Trust me, I have plenty of dignity left, and I never lost any... ;D If you want the answers to your questions, I suggest you look back through this thread and find them. I won't waste your time (and mine) by re-repeating all the answers I've given to your questions.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Ahmad Bilal,
Well you have won Argument and I Accept my Ignorance. bravo but what you are saying is the following
ARABIC QURAN IS ALSO A TRANSLATION wow WHAT AN INTELLECTUAL OBESERVATION. rotflgiveup
AM I CORRECT IN MY UNDERSTANDING? whatever
My last question If Quran is with God Then please tell me Where do you Get your Guidance? brickwall
Regards.
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Peace Khyaletanzim,
It is true that the Quran you read today is a copy and a translation. It is NOT the original. If you don't believe me, that's your choice; but I challenge you to walk into a local masjid (i.e. mosque) and ask them for a copy of the ORIGINAL message written by Muhammad. You'll probably be laughed at and chased out of there by insults and chastisements... ) Do you actually believe that when you open your household Quran, you are actually reading the original Quranic manuscript written by Muhammad? I sure hope not, brother...
My last question If Quran is with God Then please tell me Where do you Get your Guidance? brickwall
I get my guidance from a COPY of the scripture delivered to the prophet Muhammad, just like all modern-day muslims do. By reading a purified version of this Quran, which is perfectly symmetrical and in harmony with no discrepancies, I develop my ideologies regarding the system of islam/submission, and I apply the principles inherent in the religion through the scriptures...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Ahmad bilal,
Please tell me where do you get that copy. Kindly tell me where to Get that copy. If you have some link let me know.
Regards.
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Peace Afridi220,
No where just remove as many versese as you wish to purify it & brickwall
Allah will judge your mockery of His message and your rejection of His signs. By your statement, you have clearly shown your incredible ignorance, and you have made a mockery of the Qur'an. And surely, God will be the judge of all things.
Peace Khyaletanzim,
Please tell me where do you get that copy. Kindly tell me where to Get that copy. If you have some link let me know.
There is no link. The True Qur'an is not physical, it is spiritual. By reading the physical manifestation of the message, Allah explains His words for those with pure minds and hearts, and He grants these wisdom and understanding... If you wish to study the pure message of God, surely He will guide you to it. Now, in my personal opinion, Dr. Rashad Khalifa has a pretty good translation of the scriptures, and I think you will benefit from reading his copy, since it is free from sectarian views. Brother Edip Yuksel also has a decent translation of the scriptures, and I think you will benefit from reading his as well. However, if you want to read the True Qur'an, this only comes from Allah, and He alone is the provider of wisdom and knowledge, and He keeps His scriptures in a "preserved tablet".
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Afridi220,
Allah will judge your mockery of His message and your rejection of His signs. By your statement, you have clearly shown your incredible ignorance, and you have made a mockery of the Qur'an. And surely, God will be the judge of all things.
Peace Khyaletanzim,
There is no link. The True Qur'an is not physical, it is spiritual. By reading the physical manifestation of the message, Allah explains His words for those with pure minds and hearts, and He grants these wisdom and understanding... If you wish to study the pure message of God, surely He will guide you to it. Now, in my personal opinion, Dr. Rashad Khalifa has a pretty good translation of the scriptures, and I think you will benefit from reading his copy, since it is free from sectarian views. Brother Edip Yuksel also has a decent translation of the scriptures, and I think you will benefit from reading his as well. However, if you want to read the True Qur'an, this only comes from Allah, and He alone is the provider of wisdom and knowledge, and He keeps His scriptures in a "preserved tablet".
Peace,
Ahmad
Wow who is mocking and rejectin God verses and who is calling Quran a copy and not the true message of Allah you are me ???
Mock allah and his message with your 19 you are free to do so till the last day yeah -
Peace Afridi220,
Wow who is mocking and rejectin God verses and who is calling Quran a copy and not the true message of Allah you are me ???
hmm So, you actually think the Qur'an that you read everyday is the exact same document that Muhammad wrote over 1400 years ago, same paper and all? ) If you believe this, I really don't know what to tell you... In reality, though, every version of the Qur'an we have today is a COPY and a TRANSLATION, not the original... You don't really want to debate on this issue, do you? If you do, please show me a 1,400 year old version of the Qur'an.
Throughout the Qur'an, Allah condemns the disbelievers for rejecting His signs. It doesn't say anything about rejecting "verses". One of His signs is the manifestation of the Qur'anic pattern, which demonstrates it's infallibility and symmetry, since everything in it is completely proportionate and balanced. Your rejection of this only shows your willful rejection of His signs.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Ahmad Bilal,
Do you know what you are saying? Are you trying to tell that verses(ayahs) are not signs(Ayahs) brickwall I think I have nothing to tell you anymore because you are so set in your understanding that you don't even give a dam to the words used and your understanding is so foolish that you can even say that ayahs are not signs.
Arabic - English
masterwork , masterpiece , gem , curio , wonder , chef d'oeuvre
warning , lesson , adage , preachment , example
logo , token , reference , catchword , charactery , ensign , graffito , temper
,
wonder , miracle , marvel , prodigy
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paradigm , example , exemplarPlease don't reply to my posts because I have given up already. I accept the fact that you are the winner under all circumstances either it is Arabic Quran or translations. The actually Quran is already in the sacred tablet where no one can reach accept few like you so this is definitely a win win situation.
Regards.
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Peace Afridi220,
hmm So, you actually think the Qur'an that you read everyday is the exact same document that Muhammad wrote over 1400 years ago, same paper and all? If you believe this, I really don't know what to tell you... In reality, though, every version of the Qur'an we have today is a COPY and a TRANSLATION, not the original... You don't really want to debate on this issue, do you? If you do, please show me a 1,400 year old version of the Qur'an.
Throughout the Qur'an, Allah condemns the disbelievers for rejecting His signs. It doesn't say anything about rejecting "verses". One of His signs is the manifestation of the Qur'anic pattern, which demonstrates it's infallibility and symmetry, since everything in it is completely proportionate and balanced. Your rejection of this only shows your willful rejection of His signs.
Peace,
Ahmad
"Having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not."
-the Holy Quran (7179)
?And their hearts are sealed, so that they apprehend not.?
-the Holy Quran (987)
Faith
?These are they into whose hearts He has impressed faith and strengthened them with a spirit from Him."
-the Holy Quran (5822)
Blasphemy and Disbelief
"And as for those who believe not in the Hereafter there hearts refuse to know, for they are proud."
-the Holy Quran (1622)
?Such are they whose hearts and ears and eyes God hath sealed. And such are the heedless.? -the Holy Quran (1610
Dissension
"The Hypocrites fear lest a surah should be revealed concerning them, proclaiming what is in their hearts." -the Holy Quran (9 64)
To Receive Guidance
"And whosoever believeth in God, He guideth his heart. And God is knower of all things." -the Holy Quran (6411)
?Most surely there is a reminder in this for him who has a heart or he gives ear and is a witness.? -the Holy Quran (50 37)
Negligence
"And obey not him whose heart we have made heedless of Our Remembrance, who followeth his own lust." -the Holy Quran (182
Certainty and Tranquility
"Verily in the remembrance of God do hearts find rest."
-the Holy Quran (132
"He it is who sent down peace of reassurance into the hearts of the believers that they might add faith unto their faith." -the Holy Quran (484)
Anxiety and Conflict
?They alone ask leave of thee who believe not in God and the Last Day, and whose hearts feel doubt, so in their doubt they waver."
-the Holy Quran (945)
Blessing and Kindness
"And places compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him."
-the Holy Quran (5727)
"He it is who supporteth thee with His Help and with the believers. And (as for the believers) hath attuned their hearts." -the Holy Quran (8 62-63)
Hot-temper and Cruelty
"If thou hadst been stern and fierce of heart they would have dispersed from round about thee." -the Holy Quran (3159)
"Which is the true spirit hath brought down, upon the heart, that thou mayest be (one) of the warners."
-the Holy Quran (26193-194)
"Say (O Muhammad, to mankind) who is enemy to Gabriel! For he it is who hath revealed (this scripture) to thy heart by God's leave."
-the Holy Quran (297)
"And He revealed unto His slave (Prophet Muhammad) that which he revealed. The Heart lied not (in seeing the angel) what it saw."
-the Holy Quran (5310-11)
Soundness and Sickness of Heart
"The day when wealth and sons avail not (any man). Save him who bringeth unto God a whole heart " -the Holy Quran (26 88-89)
"Lo! therein verily is a reminder for him who hath a heart?
-the Holy Quran (5037)
"And the Garden is brought nign for those who kept from evil, no longer distant. (And it is said) that is that which ye were promised, (it is) for every pertinent and heedful one, who feareth the Beneficent in secret and cometh with a contrite heart."
-the Holy Quran (50 21-33)
"In their hearts is a disease, and God increaseth their disease."
-the Holy Quran (210)
"But as for those in whose hearts is disease, it only addeth wickedness to their wickedness."
-the Holy Quran (9125)
"And when the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease were saying God and His Messenger promised us naught but delusion."
-the Holy Quran (3312)
"And thou seest those in whose heart is a disease race towards them, saying We fear lest a change offortune befall us."
-the Holy Quran (5 52)
"The day when wealth and sons avail not (any man). Save him who bringeth unto God a whole heart." -the Holy Quran (26 88-89)
"But he who turneth away from remembrance" of Me, his will be a narrow life, and I shall bring him blind to the assembly on the Day of Resurrection. He will say 'My Lord! wherefore hast thou gathered me (hither) blind, when I was wont to see?' He will say 'so (it must be) our revelations come unto thee but thou didst forget them. In like manner thou art forgotten this Day."
-the Holy Quran (20124-126)
"Have they not traveled in the land, and have they hearts where with to feel and ears wherewith to hear ? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind."
-the Holy Quran (2246)
"Whoso is blind in here will be blind in the Hereafter, and yet further from the road."
-the Holy Quran (1722)
"And he whom God guideth, he is led aright, while, as for him whom He sendeth astray, for them thou wilt find no protecting friends beside Him, and We shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf "
-the Holy Quran (1797)
"Then those who believe in him (Muhammad) honor him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him They are the successful."
-the Holy Quran (7157)
"Now hath come unto you light from God and a plain scripture."
-the Holy Quran (515)
"Is he whose bosom God hath expanded for the surrender (unto Him), so that he followeth a light from His Lord (as he who disbelieveth) ? Then woe unto those whose hearts are hardened against remembrance of God. Such are in plain error."
-the Holy Quran (39 22)
"We have revealed unto thee (Muhammad) that thereby thou mayst bring forth mankind from darkness unto light."
-the Holy Quran (141)
"On the day when thou (Muhammad) wilt see the believers, men and women, their light shining forth before them and on their right hands (and will hear it said unto them) Glad news for you this day Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein ye are immortal. That is the supreme triumph."
-the Holy Quran (5712)
"On the Day when the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women will say unto those who believe, look on us that we may borrow from your light! It will be said Go back and seek for light!"
-the Holy Quran (5713)
only, when our disaster came on them, they had been humble! But their hearts were hardened and the devil made all that they used to do seem fair unto them!"
-the Holy Quran (643)
"Then woe unto those whose hearts are hardened against remembrance of God. Such are in plain error.?
-the Holy Quran (3922)
"There hath come unto you an exhortation from your Lord. A balm for that which is in the breasts."
-the Holy Quran (10-57)
"And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy for believers."
-the Holy Quran (1782)
"Have they not traveled in the land and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear."
"Having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not."
Some ppls consider God 19 above God so offtopic giveup
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Some ppls consider God 19 above God so fftopic giveup
salam dear friend afridi,
never give up, we are not all obsessed with 19 as many are, but we cannot deny its greatness either as it does come from god, all we try to do is give our opinion and bring proof to support our opinion, this world is an illusion for those who beleive, we as believers live in a spiritual world and in order to understand the spiritual world one must understand god and his last chapter the quran of the mother book, once you open the door to understanding it, you will find yourself in a different world all together.....
never give up finding the truth group -
Peace Khyaletanzim,
Do you know what you are saying? Are you trying to tell that verses(ayahs) are not signs(Ayahs) brickwall I think I have nothing to tell you anymore because you are so set in your understanding that you don't even give a dam to the words used and your understanding is so foolish that you can even say that ayahs are not signs.
Arabic - English
masterwork , masterpiece , gem , curio , wonder , chef d'oeuvre
warning , lesson , adage , preachment , example
logo , token , reference , catchword , charactery , ensign , graffito , temper
,
wonder , miracle , marvel , prodigy
,
paradigm , example , exemplarPlease don't reply to my posts because I have given up already.
I'm glad you have given up o this, brother, because by posting comments like this, you only show your ignorance regarding the Arabic language. Stop listening to your Sunni scholars, and examine the Qur'an. A sign ("ayah" is not the same thing as a verse ("abyah", and foolish are those who take the scripture as a book of poetry. Allah explains His signs throughout the reading, and it would probably benefit you if you paid attention to them. Please identify a passage in the Qur'an that says that VERSES ARE SIGNS, and I will listen to your understanding. But until then, you are only speaking on hearsay.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Bilal,
As you have already noticed that i am an ignorant person so kindly enlighten me from the Quran that sign and verse are different. Please kindly provide the Arabic and clearly mark the difference with your translation so that i can understand.
Regards.
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Peace Khyaletanzim,
As you have already noticed that i am an ignorant person
Why do you keep doing this? I never said you are an "ignorant person", YOU DID. Stop making false accusations, claiming that I'm bad-mouthing you when I'm not. All I said was your conclusion was incorrect, showing your "ignorance" of the language.
so kindly enlighten me from the Quran that sign and verse are different.
Show you where SIGN and VERSE are different? -\ I don't understand this request. The WORDS ("ayaat" and "abyaat" are not even the same. There are plenty examples in the Qur'an showing that an "ayaat" is NOT a verse, it's a sign...
In the creation of heavens and Earth, and the difference between night and day, are "ayaatin" for those with pure hearts. (3190)
How are the creation of the universe and the alternation of night and day "VERSES" for those with pure minds/hearts? This would be illogical.
He said, "My Lord, make for me a AYAT." He said, "Your AYAT is not to speak to the people for three days except by symbol, and commemorate your Lord greatly, and glorify evening and morning." (341)
How could these refer to "verses"? This wouldn't make any sense at all. In the Qur'an, a reference to "ayaat" is always referring to a sign or proof. Please show me where the word "ayaat" is referring to verses instead of signs.
Please kindly provide the Arabic and clearly mark the difference with your translation so that i can understand.
I can't mark the differences on here because I didn't photocopy exerpts from the Qur'an onto my computer... Just look up the meaning of the word "ayaat", and it means "signs", not verses. This is a sectarian mistranslation and misinterpretation. You should probably even be able to find the answers to these questions online, maybe even on this website (i.e. "Free-Minds" or this forum.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Dear Bilal,
I don't know what to say after your answer except please learn to understand English. brickwall
Look at your quote again Posted on December 11, 2008, 032750 PM
Throughout the Qur'an, Allah condemns the disbelievers for rejecting His signs. It doesn't say anything about rejecting "verses".
I don't know what you wanted to say. But in English this quote meant that signs are not verses. Please read again all your stupid answers which you call explanations.
You contradict your sayings in every post. First you said that this Quran is not the copy of original manuscript then when I asked you to show me the alterations you showed me some letter alterations and when i asked you that tell me what difference it made in the meanings you came with a new idea that Quran we read in Arabic is also a translation and the actual Quran is spiritual not physical then when I asked you where did you Got your Quran then you said the same Quran we use and translation of Khalifa was approved by you.
I accept the fact that Quran means recitation and not book named as Quran. In my understanding God is telling us at many points that what we are reading are his signs in this book. We call this Book Quran and I hope that you will contradict again to this too. brickwall
Can you tell me why Mr. Khalifa did not translated word ayat altogether and used letter in bracket instead?
121 A.L.R. these are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book
KhalifaA.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture.131 A.L.M.R. these are the signs (or verses) of the Book that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not.
KhalifaA. L. M. R. These (letters) are proofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
(131282 these are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.
KhalifaThese (letters) constitute proofs of this profound book.
(282)271 these are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear;
KhalifaT. S. These (letters) constitute proofs of the Quran; a profound scripture.
(271)
If you pay attention to the verse 271 it says but nobody has translated and in this sign(verse). Do you know why?Now I have given the translations of Khlaifa too and you will see that he did not even translated as sign or verse but letters. In my ignorant understanding, first he wanted to confuse his followers with letters so that he can prove to them that letters have been tempered with and once that doubt has been created, he came with his idea of 19 and to to prove his formula true just as a sign or miracle for his followers. Why you cannot see the simple fact that if any kind of doubt can be created in the Book(Quran) then it will become equivalent to the Books others are having. This is not a new try from the disbelievers to prove that Quran has been tempered with and you know that hadith books are full with that kind of confusion creating hadiths.
If you accept Quran as a God is mentioning in his then you cannot deny that he is saying which can mean this or these and it means that one is seeing that. I know this too that you will never accept the simple fact provided by me and you will even now may deny that the translations I have posted are not even khalifa's. In any way i have tried my best to show you the truth but you keep on changing your words where ever you Got caught in your sayings. I am 100% sure that you will do the same again brickwall but i am helpless giveup
Regards.