Number of wives?
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Finally I reiterate that I don?t find polygyny unfair to women as you are not allowed to inherit women by force nor are you allowed to take a woman for granted. In fact, if properly understood, it is to safeguard women against abuse. It would stop men from deceiving their wives and abusing other women behind the shield of monogamy but, sadly not many Muslim men understand the logic behind Polygyny and one forum member, who considers himself to be ?The voice of God? did not acknowledge the responsibilities associated with taking a wife but is, I believe, the whisper of a very different Potentate. He wrote
?If the gentleman had married one woman, went on to marry another woman, then married a third woman, all three without giving any one of them a talaq, this gentleman is well within the hudood, he has a right accorded to him by Allah to have more than one wife. To speak ill of his conduct is gheebat, his conduct is that of a momin.? > brickwallHere we go another "momin? within Hudood
The THREE wives of former clergyman march to court as he is accused of bigamy and ?10,000 forgery
By Daily Mail Reporter
Although he was not in court, it was clearly a day the three wives of former church minister Roderick Sangster were determined not to miss.
In court they heard that Sangster, who is accused of bigamy and forgery, was a conman who used vulnerable women to get his hands on money.
The trial at Warwick Crown Court, which took place in the 58 year old's absence, heard how Sangster had targeted women, conning them out of cash before moving on
peace
http//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1085141/Pictured-The-THREE-wives-clergyman-march-court-accused-bigamy-10-000-forgery.html -
Its not what I expect or is something in the back of my mind but this is what several studies on men have shown that men are generally polygamous.
peaceIf studies (what studies) suggest that men are generally polygamous, then why are some people here using their logic to prove that the quran is against polygny?
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I am 100% sure that any study conducted among whores will show that women phantastically poligamous. It will also show that poligamy practiced by women does not enhance their social status.
Any study will show that men(males) are naturally monogmous, poligamous, murderers, heroes, saints, mathematically gifted, ungifted, etc. etc.
I do not mean to discourage anybody from conducting studies. Far from it, but we should look at what we can readily see without taking the trouble of doing any "study" that men (and women) are naturally capable or inclined or disinclined to practiclly everything. It is not a naturally predetermined thing but a social, moral and individual materialisation of conditioning through education, peer approval or dispproval, prestige, acceptance, general moral values or lack of them of the community or society in which the persons live and as many etcs. as you may care to add.
Natural monogamy or poligamy doesn't exist, the same way that heterosexuality or homo or bi or bestilism or any of those things doesn't exist except where physiologically determined. To a great extent man is not "natural" but made out of mud, that is, eminently fashionable, like putty. So studying any of its "naturally" givens will not lead us anywhere. WE OURSELVES SHOULD DETERMINE where we want to go. No "nature" is going to solve our problems for us nor relieve us of our responsibility for fashining our own destiny.
This reliance on "nature" to derive principles to guide humand kind is not very different from the reliance of certain supermuslims on the purported "complete system" of life where everything is presolved, failsafe and pefectly foreseen and structured to the minutest detail, so that if we follow to the dot, our society will be perfect so that we may logically conclude that the need to go to Paradise is obviated.
Salaam
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I am 100% sure that any study conducted among whores will show that women phantastically poligamous. It will also show that poligamy practiced by women does not enhance their social status.
Any study will show that men(males) are naturally monogmous, poligamous, murderers, heroes, saints, mathematically gifted, ungifted, etc. etc.
I do not mean to discourage anybody from conducting studies. Far from it, but we should look at what we can readily see without taking the trouble of doing any "study" that men (and women) are naturally capable or inclined or disinclined to practiclly everything. It is not a naturally predetermined thing but a social, moral and individual materialisation of conditioning through education, peer approval or dispproval, prestige, acceptance, general moral values or lack of them of the community or society in which the persons live and as many etcs. as you may care to add.
Natural monogamy or poligamy doesn't exist, the same way that heterosexuality or homo or bi or bestilism or any of those things doesn't exist except where physiologically determined. To a great extent man is not "natural" but made out of mud, that is, eminently fashionable, like putty. So studying any of its "naturally" givens will not lead us anywhere. WE OURSELVES SHOULD DETERMINE where we want to go. No "nature" is going to solve our problems for us nor relieve us of our responsibility for fashining our own destiny.
This reliance on "nature" to derive principles to guide humand kind is not very different from the reliance of certain supermuslims on the purported "complete system" of life where everything is presolved, failsafe and pefectly foreseen and structured to the minutest detail, so that if we follow to the dot, our society will be perfect so that we may logically conclude that the need to go to Paradise is obviated.
Salaam
A whore does not get married. And no, Mutah is not valid.
As for your rejection of knowledge. Surely that's why the mu'slims fell. Especially those who said "we ourselves should determind where we want to go". Yes, I'm sure the tribe of Israel said the same to the god.
As for your method of thinking, I don't think I could accept that. One goes to those who know, not to those who have many opinions.
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Where do I reject knowledge my dear? And whose knowledge are you talking about?
At any rate I don't see in your post an answer to my post, I see a dogmatic rejection of my post by not anything that enlightens as to what you oppose to it or your understanding of it, other than an opinion of what you think I have in mind and there you seem to have got it wrong. You seem to be more in a hurry to be judgmental of what you think others think than to study the matter thoroughly.
As to those who know, my dear, only God knows, and only God knows who knows what, anything else is just opinion.
Salaam
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Where do I reject knowledge my dear? And whose knowledge are you talking about?
At any rate I don't see in your post an answer to my post, I see a dogmatic rejection of my post by not anything that enlightens as to what you oppose to it or your understanding of it, other than an opinion of what you think I have in mind and there you seem to have got it wrong. You seem to be more in a hurry to be judgmental of what you think others think than to study the matter thoroughly.
As to those who know, my dear, only God knows, and only God knows who knows what, anything else is just opinion.
Salaam
Have you've forgotten what the god gave to adam in Quran 230-39, specifically Quran 231?
Also, what do you understand from Quran 217 and 1643, specifically Quran 217?
And please let's stop being off topic regarding this thread, perhaps create a new thread, but unless we stick to polygny.
You said that reliance on nature is some how bad, but what of Quran 453? If such is what the god is refering to, we'd be wrong to deny research of nature when it comes to figuring out verses of the quran and thus giving an interpretation of the quran, no?
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salam simple. polygyny is wajib. polygyny is not fard, haram, or makruh.
there is no limit on the number of wives a momin can have in the quran. what is even more important, is that the right to more than one wife is conferred on the husband, it is a man's discretionary right. there is an exception, the prophet was told he could have no more wives except from those in his guardianship 3352.
those who seek to interfere with this right, men or women, interfering with the laws of allah, comitting shirk, adding words to the quran, associating themselves with allah, are warned their hands are testifying against them. their hands will testify against them on the day of judgment.
in response to the women who lie and claim they are not polygamous, i have found that they have had more than one man go into them, therefore they are liars and polygamous.
allah is the truth and the law
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Surely you are mistaken al araf - many of the Prophet's wives had previous husbands, so "having more than one man" does not mean you are polygamous.
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liquiddharma. your claim betrays nothing short of utter ignorance. ignorance of english. ignorance greek, from which the particular english word is borrowed. in this age of the computer, there is no excuse for blithely posting on the forum, without doing your research.
polygamy is a greek word. poly means multiple in greek. gamy means going in. polygamy means multiple going in. the word polygamy defined the greek practice of going into young boys and later going into women. medieval europe took this word and altered the defintion to describe the biblical restriction on a woman marrying more than once, that a woman could not get a divorce, and if her husband died she had to be locked up. post medieval europe got rid of the widows restriction leading to the current "serial monogamy" claim of definition. currently the "serial monogamy" definition is, one husband at a time. this sequence of events demonstrates that pagan europe never knew what was right in the first instance, did not have it right in the second instance, and do not have it right in the third instance. the fact that they change the meaning of a word to suit their arbitrary practices and fashions, demonstrates their pagan blundering around.
the word polygamy does not exist in the quran. using this pagan term demonstrates the pagan influences on the speaker. to compare the actions of the prophets to this greek word, is ludicrous, and those that seek to impose this greek word on muslim practices are pagans who try and bring their pagan practices along with them. listeners for the sake of a lie. people who will only believe if they can find something that they think is the same as their pagan beliefs in the quran. a person who utters the word polygamy cannot be a muslim or a momin. the fact they use the term polygamy is their mouth and hands testifying against them, that they worship the greek gods and the laws of greece.
the prophets follow the hudood, plural of hadd, the limits and laws established by allah. it is jaiz, and wajib for a muslim and momin, to have multiple zawj and amrat fi malkat aymanakum. in english, it is permitted and optional for a believer and practitioner to have multiple wives and wards held in righteousness.
allah is the lawgiver.
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Assalaam Alaikum
Excellent topic Simple. Unfortunately, (for the Men) the polgamy reference in Sura Nisa 43 is a mistranslation in english and misinterpretation along with a 'lustful' fallacy developed by Men.
Allah makes it clear.....
MARRY THOSE AMONG YOU WHO ARE SINGLE, and the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female. if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace. for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things.
Thus the ayah An-Nur 24.32 destroys the polygamous fallacy.
If the female Musilimah's gave the married Males who approach them Sura An-Nur 24.32, the fallacy and misinterpretation would cease to exist.
Now for those Men who believe they can still practice Polygamy, 'because Muhammad did'
Allah addresses these Men in the following Sura and ayahs....
Wa-ith taqoolu lillathee anAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi
amsik AAalayka zawjaka waittaqi Allaha / amsik AAalayka zawjaka waittaqi Allaha = Keep your dignity with your wife/mate and have regard for Allahwa tukhfee fee nafsika / and Be aware of your soul;your inner feelings
ma Allahu mubdeehi watakhsha alnnasa waAllahu ahaqqu an takhshahufa lamma qada zaydun minha wataran zawwaj nakaha li-kaa (for YOU) la yakoona AAala almu/mineena harajun fee azwaji adAAiya-ihim itha qadaw minhunna wataran wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan
Any excesses (i.e. polygamy, oppressing women, etc.) that were practiced in regards to females and marriage have now ENDED and those practices should cease.
O those who believe in the Prophet! ....ANY BELIEVING WOMAN WHO DEDICATES HER SOUL TO THE PROPHET IF THE PROPHET WISHES TO WED HER;- THIS ONLY FOR YOU, AND NOT FOR THE BELIEVERS / waimraatan muminatan in wahabat nafsaha lilnnabiyyi in arada alnnabiyyu an yastankihaha/ khalisatan/ laka min dooni almumineena
Yastankihaha (imperfect, 3rd person) wish to marry
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 577 (nakaha)Khalisatan (active participle) Distinct Quality, Someone with exclusive right, one who is pure, genuine, best choice, most excellent; Mukh-la-san / Mukh-lee-san means one who is Chosen, Chosen by Allah, pure from pollution or hypocrisy, pure & sincere towards Allah, purely believing in the unity of Allah (applied to a Human)
Lanes Lexicon Volume 2 page 785-787;
Online Single Page http//www.studyquran.co.uk/LLhome.htm
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 161 (khalasa)
Sorry (ladies) gentlemen, Allah makes it clear you can nolonger practice excesses and marry all the women you want. The exclusive right to practice polygamy in its true sense was ONLY relegated to the Prophets of Allah
Now we can address Sura Nisa 43 in light of the truth.
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Assalaam Alaikum
Before we address Sura Nisa 43....
Allah continues to address the Men who still insist on 'slipping' by with 'exchanging' and changing their wife or wives for others.....amazing Allah knows Men are lustful and rebellious
It is not lawful for you (to marry more) women after this, NOR TO CHANGE THEM FOR (OTHER) WIVES, even though their beauty attract you, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens). and Allah doth watch over all things.
La yahillu laka alnnisaa min baAAdu wala an tabaddala bihinna min azwajin walaw aAAjabaka husnuhunna illa ma malakat yameenuka wakana Allahu AAala kulli shayin raqeeban
Sorry Gentlemen cant do that either.....
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Assalaam Alaikum
Ok Lets just jump to the chase....
I will NOT post the english translation, because EVERYONE I have encountered is wrong.....
Wain khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama fa inkihoo {MA TABA lakum minna alnnisai mathna wathulatha warubaAAa} fain khiftum alla taAAdiloo fawahidatan aw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adna alla taAAooloo
Wain khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama fa VERBAL SENTENCE >>> inkihoo ADVERBAL MODIFIERS >>> MA TABA lakum minna <<< GENITIVE >>> alnnisai ADJECTIVES >>> mathna wathulatha warubaAAa <<< fain khiftum alla taAAdiloo fa ADJECTIVE Subject (Al Nisa) >>>> wahidatan <<< aw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adna alla taAAooloo
It is Ma = NOT Taba = good/lawful Lakum =TO/For YOU to be given the Minna = favor/gift/blessing/benefit of Al Nisai = (get married to) Women Mathna = 2, Thulatha = 3, and Rubaa = 4 TIMES
IT IS NOT LAWFUL to divorce get married, divorce get married, divorce get married again and divorce and get married again (and in doing so leave a family behind EACH time!)
Al Yatama does NOT mean 'orphan'....
?Al? (adataatarif) is a Definite Article , used to give the meaning of ?Most, All, Complete, Maximum, Whole, and to denote comprehensiveness, all aspects or categories of a subject, or to denote perfection and includes all degrees and grades.
yatama sole, unmatched, single, lonely, jaded, one withoutparents; Root word atamm means more complete, more perfect, perfectly prepared, totally ready; Root word Tamm meaning consummate, of full value, self contained, needing no completion; Root word Tamma means to or become complete, completed, finished, done, to be performed, be accomplished, to come to an end;
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. page 117-118 (tamma)When Allah references 'orphans' Allah uses the word 'yateem'
Al-Insan/Al-Dahr 76.8] And for His love they feed the food to the miskeen / the needy (who is reduced to poverty) and the yateem / orphan and aseer / captive.
No, No! but you honour not the orphans / al-yateema!
mathna wa thulatha wa rubaAAa does not mean two three and four because two, three and four in Arabic are ithnaan, thalatha and arbaa' and not mathna, thulatha and rubaa
ithnan means 2 thalatha means 3 arba?a means 4
Allah confirms the definitive use of ALL these cardinal / ordinal number references in the following ayahs
Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two/ mathna, or three/ thulatha, or four/ rubaAAa. He adds to Creation as He pleases. for Allah has power over all things.
O you who believe! When death approaches any of you, (take) witnesses among yourselves when making bequests,- two / ithnani just men of your own
O, you who believe those whom your right possess and those among you who have not reach puberty, ask permission from you three / thalatha times/repetitions / marratin
For those who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a waiting for four / arbaAAati
sadeeqal atheemi / Allah has revealed the truth
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salam simple. please ignore muslimthreadrevealed's ranting.
muhammad had multiple wives. abraham had mutliple wives. allh called both men righteous and blessed them.
muslimthreadrevealed's post implies that muhammad and abraham were rejecters and not muslim because they had multiple wives.
muslimthreadrevealed's posts are majnun
allah separates falsehood from the truth.
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liquiddharma. your claim betrays nothing short of utter ignorance. ignorance of english. ignorance greek, from which the particular english word is borrowed. in this age of the computer, there is no excuse for blithely posting on the forum, without doing your research.
polygamy is a greek word. poly means multiple in greek. gamy means going in. polygamy means multiple going in. the word polygamy defined the greek practice of going into young boys and later going into women. medieval europe took this word and altered the defintion to describe the biblical restriction on a woman marrying more than once, that a woman could not get a divorce, and if her husband died she had to be locked up. post medieval europe got rid of the widows restriction leading to the current "serial monogamy" claim of definition. currently the "serial monogamy" definition is, one husband at a time. this sequence of events demonstrates that pagan europe never knew what was right in the first instance, did not have it right in the second instance, and do not have it right in the third instance. the fact that they change the meaning of a word to suit their arbitrary practices and fashions, demonstrates their pagan blundering around.
the word polygamy does not exist in the quran. using this pagan term demonstrates the pagan influences on the speaker. to compare the actions of the prophets to this greek word, is ludicrous, and those that seek to impose this greek word on muslim practices are pagans who try and bring their pagan practices along with them. listeners for the sake of a lie. people who will only believe if they can find something that they think is the same as their pagan beliefs in the quran. a person who utters the word polygamy cannot be a muslim or a momin. the fact they use the term polygamy is their mouth and hands testifying against them, that they worship the greek gods and the laws of greece.
the prophets follow the hudood, plural of hadd, the limits and laws established by allah. it is jaiz, and wajib for a muslim and momin, to have multiple zawj and amrat fi malkat aymanakum. in english, it is permitted and optional for a believer and practitioner to have multiple wives and wards held in righteousness.
allah is the lawgiver.
In other words, you have nothing to say, you don't like what I say but you haven't thought the issue through enough to actualy respond to the points I make, so you just blag and insult and repeat yourself. Why do you bother?
Rant arg brog brrrr PAGANS grr rant grrr IGNORANT OF ARABIC brrr rant brr POLYGAMY!
ALLAH IS THE (insert random, authoritative sounding noun)
/sigh
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Peace,
Treat others the way you want to be treated. And respect the dignity, privacy and freedom of all individuals be they male or female. group
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salam thesilverlining. there is no respect for those who forge lies against allah. no respect for those who commit shirk by adding words to the quran. no respect for those who mislead believers. they earn their own sins and the sins of those they have misled with their lies.
allah is the only one worthy of respect.
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Peace Al Araf,
I was mainly speaking in terms of the topic of discussion ie. having multiple wives. Respect the dignity, privacy and freedom of the woman in your life just as you would expect her to respect yours.