Muhammad is a White Man?

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Chris,

first Iblis was INhuman according to the Quran and not SUBhuman like you stated.

Please show me where I said Iblis was "subhuman". I never made this statement at all, and you're trying to attribute words to me to prove your point, even though it's incorrect.

Second it is YOUR STORY about Iblis and "Eve" what implies that in your worldview white peopple are inferior. And others here can see the same.

Again, you are attributing lies to me to support your false theories. It's not "MY STORY" that Iblis reproduced with Adam's wife (i.e. "Eve&quot. It actually comes from a Jewish concept, and aspects of it are found in the Torah and in their oral history... And how many times to I have to repeat that I don't believe white people are inferior? ) I never said white people are inferior to anyone, and I never promoted black/Nubian superiority. I simply said they didn't come from the same ancestor.

Third I still refute strongly YOU STORY and until now you have not given ANY evidence from the Quran supporting that YOUR STORY about Iblis breeding with Eve and creating a different than black offspring is true.
Until now you have not refuted my evidence from the Quran that Allah created the various colours of the people.

Posted on Yesterday at 111127 AMPosted by Christoph Haupt

But I refute strongly and vehemently your claim and that of Al Khidr and Amin74 that caucasoid people are not descendants of Adam. That is a racial biased and separatist view with no support in the Quran!! Rather the opposite

And from His signs is the creation of the heavens and the Earth, and the difference of your languages and your colors. In that are signs for the world.
And from the people, and the animals, and the livestock, are various colors. As such, only the knowledgeable among Gods servants reverence Him. God is Noble, Forgiving.

Allah tells us that it was IT that is responsible for our different appearances and not Iblis breeding with Adams wife like you want people to believe.
If it is beyond your comprehension to understand the matter of diversity I would advise to seek knowledge the way Allah tells us

Say Roam the Earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Thus God will establish the final creation. God is capable of all things.

The answer can be found in exploring creation itself and not in mythological books.

Until know you did not answer to this post of mine so for you convience to read i put it again in here.

What was the point of quoting your opinionated comment? It says that the languages and colors of the people are among the signs from Allah. Does this illustrate a separation between blacks and whites? ABSOLUTELY. White people have considered themselves free from color and differentiation, which is why they call black people "colored". This shows the different colors of human skin tones in similar groups, not the difference between whites and blacks. If you're correct, then why doesn't the Qur'an mention different hair textures, eye colors, or featural dominance? Here's a basic answer the people obviously had similar features which wouldn't serve as clear identifiers for separation. They're only general difference was their skin tone and colors.

I also suggest you examine creation, and see what the differences are between black people and white people, and maybe you'll understand the truth. Also, since when has the Torah been regarded as a "mythological book"? According to the Qur'an, the Torah is a revelation from Allah.

Peace,

Ahmad

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Chris,

Do you not see that God sends down water from the sky, thus We produce
with it fruits of various colors? And of the mountains are peaks that are
white, red, or some other color and intense black.
And from the people, and the animals, and the livestock, are various colors.
As such, only the knowledgeable among God?s servants reverence Him. God is Noble, Forgiving.

This 2 ayat explain beautiful that all colours in nature are a creation of Allah, including the skincolour of people. Our Creator is even pointing out some colours in particular white, red, or some other color and intense black.
white people and black people and all other vrious skincolours are Creations from Allah, descendants of the first human being Adam

I already showed you how black people and white people having the same general ancestor is NOT physically possible. So, I won't even go back into detail on that matter... And regarding all the colors being creations of Allah, I suggest you read through the scriptures (i.e. the "mythological books" you mentioned). EVERYTHING is a creation from Allah, and this includes all people and jinns. Even Iblis himself was a creation of Allah. So, your showing that white people and black people are all creations of God doesn't mean anything at all; you're just stating the plainly obvious that Allah created EVERYTHING in existence, seen and unseen. This is already an established fact.

Ahmad Bilal, Al Khidr I CHALLENGE YOU to produce a verse from the Quran that supports your claim of white people not being the offspring from ADAM!
According to your claims white people are the Al-Jinn. Produce a verse from the Quran stating that a Jinn has a white skin!

Brother Al Khidr and I have already showed you this several times. We don't have to post a verse that says "jinns are white", because that's not necessary at all. This is a clearly derived conclusion by the Qur'anic confirmation of Adam being BLACK. That means if it's not black, it didn't come from Adam, plain and simple. Adam was formed from black mud, and Iblis wasn't. So, if Adam's descendants had black skin like their forefather, the reverse would be that Iblis' descendants did NOT have black skin, which is like their forefather... So, if you disagree, please show your proofs of jinns having wings and horns, flying around with pitchforks, like what is commonly referred to as a "devil". If you don't have any evidence of your claims, then it's most reasonable to at least look into the facts which can be backed up with evidence.

Peace,

Ahmad

Christoph_Haupt

Salaam Ahmad

Your stance regarding white people as satanic offspring is the focalpoint of your being and to take any other stance would shatter your self.
From this further discussion and argumentation is fruitless.
You don't view white people as inferior but seeing them NOT descandent of Adam you don't view them equal either.

Chapter 109

In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.

Say "O rejecters," (of equality)
"I do not serve what you serve,"
"Nor do you serve what I serve,"
"Nor will I serve what you serve,"
"Nor will you serve what I serve,"
"To you is your system, and to me is mine."

Peace

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Chris,

Your stance regarding white people as satanic offspring is the focalpoint of your being and to take any other stance would shatter your self.
From this further discussion and argumentation is fruitless.
You don't view white people as inferior but seeing them NOT descandent of Adam you don't view them equal either.

This is ridiculous. Like I've said numerous times, I BELIEVE IN RACIAL EQUALITY FOR ALL PEOPLE. The real question is Does being considered a descendant of Iblis make you feel inferior to descendants of Adam? You're disregarding the fact that Allah judges us by our righteousness and our belief, not by our ancestry. So, if being called a descendant of Iblis makes you feel inferior, then you should examine the Qur'an more carefully, and there you'll see how we are judged by the Almighty.

Peace,

Ahmad

Al_Khidr

Thanks Al Khidr for the long repley to my postings stating nothing new but I refute strongly and vehemently your claim and that of Al Khidr and Amin74 that caucasoid people are not descendants of Adam. That is a racial biased and separatist view with no support in the Quran!! Rather the opposite

And from His signs is the creation of the heavens and the Earth, and THE DIFFERENCE OF your languages and YOUR COLOURS. In that are signs for the world.
And FROM THE PEOPLE, and the animals, and the livestock, ARE VARIOUS COLOURS. As such, only the knowledgeable among God?s servants reverence Him. God is Noble, Forgiving.

Allah tells us that it was IT that is responsible for our different appearances and not Iblis breeding with Adams wife like you want people to believe.
If it is beyond your comprehension to understand the matter of diversity I would advise to seek knowledge the way Allah tells us

Say ?Roam the Earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Thus God will establish the final creation. God is capable of all things.?

The answer can be found in exploring creation itself and not in mythological books.

Peace....Chris

Chris

You said I made a claim huh..... You are jumping to fast with the gun. I challenge YOU to quote me to back up your statement.

But I will leave you with this

http//ipconcealer.com/goto/nph-proxy.cgi/010110A/uggc/=2fserr-zvaqf.bet/sbehz/vaqrk.cuc=3fgbcvp=3d9597416.zft188095#msg188095

You can also download the JINN

http//kushite.webs.com/jinn.htm

marleya

Salaam aleikum.

I am sorry Bilal that I forgot the link,been a little distracted.Didnt check the post.

http//exploring-africa.blogspot.com/2008/01/skin-pigmentation-gene-alleles-part-2.html

Mutation is the word Bilal.Thats how they know today that black men were the first creation,because the mutation is numerous.The skin colour is a mutation,and it is likely to have had happen not so long ago.From 6000 to 12000 years ago.The european have been darker longer than they have been white.

I find it strange how you people can from the Koran,draw the thougt that white men is not from Allah.

If you think that your thoughts is more nobel or different than the white racism,you are wrong Bilal.

To unite,and to reforme the character of men,is the way Allah gives us.To be the beings,he knew we could be.

Al Kidr,there is a good articel,here on free minds of jinn,easy to understand and good.

http//www.free-minds.org/jinn Search "who are the jinn" by Layth

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Marleya,

I am sorry Bilal that I forgot the link,been a little distracted.Didnt check the post.

http//exploring-africa.blogspot.com/2008/01/skin-pigmentation-gene-alleles-part-2.html

Mutation is the word Bilal.Thats how they know today that black men were the first creation,because the mutation is numerous.The skin colour is a mutation,and it is likely to have had happen not so long ago.From 6000 to 12000 years ago.The european have been darker longer than they have been white.

This doesn't have anything to do with Europeans. This is about the ancestry of black people and white people. What you are speaking is ridiculous nonsense. I already told you that racial differences between white people and black people goes FAR BEYOND skin pigmentation. Plus, regarding physical and genetic mutation, this wouldn't have happened in the case of Adam and his wife because THEY WERE THE FIRST BEINGS. In other words, they were created without genetic flaws and recessive traits; all of their features were dominant, which means they were passed on to their offspring.

I find it strange how you people can from the Koran,draw the thougt that white men is not from Allah.

I find that strange too... You need to stop your denial of the truth, and escape from the mental prison where you've enslaved yourself with your false reasoning. What you have stated is YOUR OWN conclusion. Show me ANYWHERE I ever mentioned that white people are not from Allah, ANYWHERE. Stop your blasphemies. Everything is from Allah; He is the creator of all things seen and unseen. If white people are descendants of Iblis, guess what! Iblis is from Allah too, just like Adam. That doesn't change who their (and your) ancestors are...

By the way, what's with the "you people" comment? wow laugh

If you think that your thoughts is more nobel or different than the white racism,you are wrong Bilal.

How am I promoting racism by speaking the truth? The fact of the matter is this You are speaking from emotion rather than common sense (or as Anwar says, "good sense&quot, and this is ridiculous. Is it wrong for me to say that black people were first given the scriptures as the children of Adam? Even modern-day scientists agree that the so-called Afro-Asiatic languages, which includes Semitic languages (i.e. Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, etc.), were originally spoken around Ethiopia, and the original Hebrews were dark-skinned people, just like the early Arabs. What you're speaking are your own emotion-based opinions, and when weighed against facts, your opinions don't mean anything.

Peace,

Ahmad

marleya

Salaam aleikum

Which truth Bilal?

You have said that it is impossible for black people to produce white people,I have proved that the europeans have not always been white,they started out black!

The truth is that the difference only goes skindeep,and the variation beetween africans themselves,are bigger than the differences beetween africans and europeans,or asians,or aboriginies.

For centuries tha white people have tried to search for the race gene,that would favourable the white man,but ended up with the knowledge that black people were their ancestors,that life was created in Africa.

What is more right than emotion?When somethings sounds wrong,feels wrong,than I trust my emotion.

Peace Bilal,may Allah guide us all.

Sarat

Peace,

Black people and White people and everyone in between are the descendants of the same person.

Its scientifically proven and its clearly mentioned in the Qur'an (if the science wasen't enough for you).

To say otherwise is blasphemous on both levels.

Btw, Progod are you a professor by chance? You could do a lot of good in an anthropology, middle east studies, or Islamic studies department, not to mention an Arabic department with your knowledge.

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Marleya,

You have said that it is impossible for black people to produce white people!

Where did I say it's impossible for black people to produce white people? o Please quote me. I didn't say that at all, and once again, you're putting words into my mouth for fit your own false belief.

The truth is that the difference only goes skindeep,and the variation beetween africans themselves,are bigger than the differences beetween africans and europeans,or asians,or aboriginies.

This is completely ridiculous. Please show proof of your claim. This has already been discussed, and resources have been used. So, if you're going to make a statement like that, please cite some examples or some evidence.

For centuries tha white people have tried to search for the race gene,that would favourable the white man,but ended up with the knowledge that black people were their ancestors,that life was created in Africa.

Then, why dp white people still deny this fact? Most of them still claim to be descendants of the ancient Arabs, not Africans/Nubians. In fact, most of them attest to the theory that ancient white civilization developed somewhere in Iraq, and they refuse to acknowledge ancient Nubian civilization as being part of their ancestry.

What is more right than emotion?When somethings sounds wrong,feels wrong,than I trust my emotion.

This is outrageous. Just because you "feel" something is right doesn't make it correct. Plenty of people "feel" good about making fast money, but does this make it okay to rob a bank? Most Christians "feel" that Jesus is so-called God-Incarnate, but does this make it true? ) Maybe you need to STOP trusting your emotion so much, and stick to facts.

Peace,

Ahmad

CousCous

If any of you guys are wondering whether the description of Mohamed in the hadith is reliable, check out the sunni inspired description of Ali; Fat, Black and Bald! Any political motivations?

Also remember that a 'White' Arab usually is nowhere near as 'White' as a European so even though the hadith says he was a 'White Man' doesn't make him a Northern European.

Just something to take into account guys.

CousCous

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace Sarat,

Black people and White people and everyone in between are the descendants of the same person.

Its scientifically proven and its clearly mentioned in the Qur'an (if the science wasen't enough for you).

To say otherwise is blasphemous on both levels.

Okay... ) Can you please show some of this scientific evidence and proof from the Qur'an to back up your claim?

Peace,

Ahmad

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace CousCous,

If any of you guys are wondering whether the description of Mohamed in the hadith is reliable, check out the sunni inspired description of Ali; Fat, Black and Bald! Any political motivations?

We don't particular know about the political motivations regarding Ali and his description according to Sunni scholars. All we know is that, according to their hadiths, he was sternly rejected by almost everyone, including Muhammad's wife Aisha, and nobody wanted to see him lead the people. They even tried assassinating him, which eventually occurred by a separate group of "Muslims" who regarded Ali as a disbeliever. But again, these are only rumors and hadiths, not actual facts, and we don't know the truth of any of these people and circumstances because we weren't there...

Also remember that a 'White' Arab usually is nowhere near as 'White' as a European so even though the hadith says he was a 'White Man' doesn't make him a Northern European.

You are correct. Pale Arabs are not necessarily as "white" as Europeans, and this could've possibly been manipulated by modern scholars. Maybe they were implying that he had a lighter skin complexion... However, this doesn't change the inconsistencies within these hadiths. There were previously texts in the hadith and sunna writings that described Muhammad as being black, and they've been replaced with hadiths about Muhammad being a pale Arab.

According to certain hadiths (i.e. Hadith, Vol. 9162, 163), Muhammad claimed that his dreams of black/Nubian women meant that disease and pestilence was approaching. According to these hadiths, he also called black people "raisin heads" (Hadith Vol. 1662; Vol. 9256). Plus

Muslims are told through the hadiths that
(1) Africans/Nubians "annoy the Prophet" (Ishaq 243)
(2) Blacks/Nubians should be left to die if injured, and should be denied intercession and entrance to heaven (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 137)

Still not shocked? Look at some of these hadiths

Abu Darda' reported God's messenger as saying, "God created Adam when He created him and struck his right shoulder and brought forth his offspring white like small ants. And He struck his left shoulder and brought forth his offspring BLACK as though they were charcoal. Then He said to the party on his right said, 'To paradise, and I do not care', and He said to the party in his left shoulder 'To hell, and I do not care'." Ahmad transmitted it. (Mishkat Al Masabih, English translation with explanatory notes by Dr. James Robson , Volume I, Chapter IV, Book I.- Faith, pp. 31-32)

Narrated AbudDarda'
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said Allah created Adam when He had to create him and He struck his right shoulder and there emitted from it white offspring as if they were white ants. He struck his left shoulder and there emitted from it THE BLACK OFFSPRINGS as if they were charcoal. He then said (to those who had been emitted) from the right (shoulder) For Paradise and I do not mind. Then He said to those (who had been emitted) from his left shoulder They are for Hell and I do not mind.
Transmitted by Ahmad. (Al-Tirmidhi Hadith, Number 38- ALIM CD ROM Version)

According to these hadiths, black people were created by Allah specifically with the purpose of going to hell! This doesn't sound racist to you? Or what about this

Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman, the companion of Sahnun, said, "Anyone who says that the Prophet was black SHOULD BE KILLED." (Muhammad Messenger of Allah (Ash-Shifa of Qadi 'Iyad), Qadi 'Iyad Musa al-Yahsubi, translated by Aisha Abdarrahman Bewley , p. 375)

Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman, Sahnun's companion, said that whoever says that the Prophet was black IS KILLED. The Prophet was not black. (Ibid., p. 387)

These state that Muhammad was definately WHITE, as in EUROPEAN WHITE, and anyone who claimed him to be black/darker skinned should be killed! According to their hadiths, they even imply that Satan himself is black

... The apostle said, "Whoever wants to see Satan let him take a look at Nabtal b. al-Harith!" He was a sturdy black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks. He used to come and talk to the apostle and listen to him and then carry what he had said to the hypocrites. It was he who said "Muhammad is all ears if anyone tells him anything he believes it." God sent down concerning him "And of them are those who annoy the prophet and say he is all ears, Say Good ears for you. He believes in God and trusts the believers and is a mercy for those of you who believe; and those who annoy the apostle of God for them there is a painful punishment." (Sura 961) (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulallah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad by A. Guillaume, page 243)

Now, I don't know how you interpret these, but to me, it looks like the writers had fierce objections and prejudices against black Arabs and Africans/Nubians, even to the extent of saying they are all destined for hell and Satan looks like a black man. This is ridiculous! So, even though the hadiths may have not been literally speaking of Muhammad being as white as Europeans, it is still implying that he, being called "the white man", had lighter skin than the other people around him, and they illustrate that he had extreme views against blacks.

Plenty of hadiths speak of Muhammad owning and selling black slaves, and even raping black women! Do you think this is a good example of Muhammad, a prophet of God? Regardless of whether you view Muhammad as European white, pale, light-brown skinned, or pitch black, it doesn't change the view of blacks that is exhibited throughout the racist Saudi Arabian Muslim society, promoted by pale Arabs and white people. And it's still wrong...

Peace,

Ahmad

Al_Khidr

If any of you guys are wondering whether the description of Mohamed in the hadith is reliable, check out the sunni inspired description of Ali; Fat, Black and Bald! Any political motivations?

Also remember that a 'White' Arab usually is nowhere near as 'White' as a European so even though the hadith says he was a 'White Man' doesn't make him a Northern European.

Just something to take into account guys.

CousCous

I think its so funny to see how people try to water down racism. Those hadiyths were design to make it appear that Prophet Muhammad was a white/european and the white man in Islaam only credits Bilal as Black and no one else and if you can understand that then you definately can see that there was a scheme or an agenda to make everything white in Islaam just like how they did in Christianity. When you look at their HIS-STORY, they even make the Moors (who are originally Black) white in their videos and pictures they create. Prophet Muhammad was 360 degrees away from being white, he was dark skinned, he was Black of Nubian/African descent. Those who conquered the original Nubians in Africa, Saudi Arabia, etc. came from Europe. The people consider the present day Jews in Israel are actually europeans, they are not the original Nubians who are the original Hebrews/Jews etc.

There is a lot of racism in hadiyth. There are hadiyth which states that the Black stone they kiss in Mecca was originally white and it turned Black because of the sins of the people who kissed it. The white man has always given the color Black, evil, negative, satanic connotations. Remember Angel Food Cake is WHITE and Devil Food Cake is BLACK. This is a demonstration of how racism is institutionalized which effects the conscious and unconscious level of all people and this same for of racism has been institutionalized in all religions. The prophets did not teach this, this is a result of the dirty practice of men.

Al_Khidr