What Kind of Arabic Is Used In the Great Reading?

Mr_Deen

Peace Mr D,

Reading aloud is recitation. But you can also read it silently. Reading is the closer meaning. Reading means reading (either aloud or silently) out of a written document. Remember that the god ordered us to read and that he taught us by the PEN.

Your assumption is based on the false traditional belief that the great reading was not written down until the time of Uthman and that it was recited from memory. The word "qaraa" surely means "to read" not "to recite". In fact, if one reads between the lines of the traditional pious fiction of Hadiths, one can see that it was always implicitly understood that the great reading has has always been read from a written document from the very beginning. For example, the stories tell of Mohamed upon receiving Chapter 96 being instructed by Gabriel "iqraa" to which he replied ?I can?t iqraa? three times. Surely, even those traditional stories don?t suggest that Mohamed was a mute and couldn?t speak/recite.

"All people and all times" are very big words. Hmm... some people never read the great reading. Also, how about people from before the time the great reading was revealed?

Where did I say that peope of the book are not addressed?

I merely said that the language of the great reading is the oral language of the people of the messenger. Most of the people of the book living in Arabia also spoke this language. You don't seem to know the difference between a written language and an oral vernacular. For example, in the middle ages in England the spoken language was English but the written language of prestige and religion was Latin. So everyone spoke English but only "the people of the book/writing" understood Latin. The situation was largely the same in Arabian towns where everyone spoke Arabic but writing was done in Aramaic or Greek.

Exactly, in "a tongue", in an oral vernacular language.

Peace,

Ayman

"Recite, in the name of your Lord."

I don't see the use of arguing this.

I am not basing any assumptions on anything, you are assuming wrongfully that I do though.

I am a hadith rejecter, you do not need to speak about hadiths to me.
I find the hadith you refer, offensive. If one can't read, physical abuse, will not change that. I find it to be yet another satanic hadith.
I do also not believe hadith about the Prophet Mohammed not being able to read or write. It would seem quite obvious, as the verse almost reads "write this down, and recite it".

You argumentation about spoken versus written language is useless, I will refer again.

And yes, all people. All messengers brought the same message. "We do not consider them being at odds".

ayman

Peace Mr. D,

"Recite, in the name of your Lord."
I don't see the use of arguing this.
I am not basing any assumptions on anything, you are assuming wrongfully that I do though.
I am a hadith rejecter, you do not need to speak about hadiths to me.
I find the hadith you refer, offensive. If one can't read, physical abuse, will not change that. I find it to be yet another satanic hadith.
I do also not believe hadith about the Prophet Mohammed not being able to read or write.

It would seem quite obvious, as the verse almost reads "write this down, and recite it".
You argumentation about spoken versus written language is useless, I will refer again.
And yes, all people. All messengers brought the same message. "We do not consider them being at odds".

All I said is that there is a clear contradiction between this traditional false Hadith and the traditional view that "quran" means "recite" as opposed to "read".

I never said that the prophet was not able to read and write. Arabic itself as a language wasn't normally written so there was nothing to read or write in it to begin with. When the great reading descended this changed. When it was written the prophet and the scribes used the script of the language of prestige in their town (Nabataean Aramaic) to write it. What you are seeing in the great reading is a transliteration of Arabic in Aramaic script.

It is one thing to claim to reject Hadiths and it is another thing to actually cleanse your mind from their influence and preconceptions. You claim to reject Hadiths and then turn around and base the meaning of "quran" on them. If you disagree then tell us why you deliberately cut Chapter 96 short and don't quote the rest of it which clearly shows that "iqraa" doesn't mean recite but means reading from a written document.

963-4. Read and your lord the most honorable, who taught with the pen.

The pen only comes into play if we are READING (loud or silently) out of a written document. This is indisputable. If you want to argue further then argue with the god when you meet him about why he decided to use the word "pen" in there to make it clear that the meaning of "iqraa" is read while you think you know better and that it means "recite".

It would seem quite obvious, as the verse almost reads "write this down, and recite it".

Even you are forced to acknowledge this indisputable fact despite whatever you say out of pride to save face since "write this down and then recite what you wrote" is indisputably another way of saying "read".

Peace,

Ayman

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

I'qra does NOT mean 'read', it specifically means to 'be aware, ponder, recognize'

As it relates to the language of the Quran, Allah defines the exclusive distinction of the language of the Quran...

A Book / Kitabun, whereof the signs / ayatuhu are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic / quranan AAarabiyyan, for people who understand;-

Kitabun fussilat ayatuhu quranan AAarabiyyan liqawmin yaAAlamoona

fussilat , passive participle, verbal form II meaning detailed, self defining, distinct, distinguished, unique, discrete; it is dissimilar from ANY language

Fasala (without shaddah) is a PERFECT verb and means to "separate, divide, disunite, disassociate, disconnect, disjoin, disengage, detach, break up, resolve, to cut off, segregate, isolate, seclude, sever, displace, remove, discharge, lay off, etc.....

Fassala (with shaddah) IMPERATIVE command, Verb Form II "He has explained, to detail, set forth detail, develop in great detail, elaborate, expound, give the particulars in detail, divide into sections, classify, categorize, group, to make clear, to clarify, to explain, divide into sections, to arrange, etc..."

The language of the Quran is from Allah, it has no reference, it is a NOT a conversational 'dialect'. Modern Standard Arabic does NOT reflect the grammatical constructs (Sarf) of the Arabic of the Quran.

ayman

Peace MTR,

I'qra does NOT mean 'read', it specifically means to 'be aware, ponder, recognize'

This is false. There is no support from the great reading for this.

As it relates to the language of the Quran, Allah defines the exclusive distinction of the language of the Quran...

A Book / Kitabun, whereof the signs / ayatuhu are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic / quranan AAarabiyyan, for people who understand;-
Kitabun fussilat ayatuhu quranan AAarabiyyan liqawmin yaAAlamoona

fussilat , passive participle, verbal form II meaning detailed, self defining, distinct, distinguished, unique, discrete; it is dissimilar from ANY language
Fasala (without shaddah) is a PERFECT verb and means to "separate, divide, disunite, disassociate, disconnect, disjoin, disengage, detach, break up, resolve, to cut off, segregate, isolate, seclude, sever, displace, remove, discharge, lay off, etc.....
Fassala (with shaddah) IMPERATIVE command, Verb Form II "He has explained, to detail, set forth detail, develop in great detail, elaborate, expound, give the particulars in detail, divide into sections, classify, categorize, group, to make clear, to clarify, to explain, divide into sections, to arrange, etc..."

The expression "Qur'an in Arabic" is meaningless nonsense. So either you know the meaning of the word "quran" and translate it or admit that you don't know the meaning. A "pondering/awareness/recognizing" in Arabic is equally meaningless nonsense. Only "a reading" in Arabic makes sense.

The language of the Quran is from Allah, it has no reference, it is a NOT a conversational 'dialect'.

You have created an idol out of a 100% human language. You have made this idol so that you can make it say whatever you imagine it to say.

The Arabic language existed before the great reading and people spoke it at home and on the streets. It was a mundane conversational human language. It only became a "sacred" language much later after Arabic was transformed into a language of religious prestige to serve the Islamic empire Arab nationalistic and political agenda. There is nothing special about Arabic and in fact it has many eccentricities like all human languages. How the god uses it is special (as would be the case in any human language that the god decides to use to communicate with us), but not the language itself.

Modern Standard Arabic does NOT reflect the grammatical constructs (Sarf) of the Arabic of the Quran.

It doesn't reflect it 100% percent but it is closer to it than your made up idol.

Peace,

Ayman

Joe_Betik

salaam

go easy please. let's consider this

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la taqooloo raAAina waqooloo onthurna waismaAAoo walilkafireena AAathabun aleemun
You who have faith, do not say, ?Heed us!? Say, ?Consider us when you listen.? And to disbelievers, it is a punishment of distress.

so we have differences in understanding, e.g. in this word 'iqra''.

it is to be expected (God teaches in phases, remember?), and should be a non-issue, for the standard is God attains one an understanding that he/she is comfortable with, or without burdening him/her. remember that He knows everything in our hearts, and whatever understanding we are comfortable with at some particular point of time. He is teaching us right now. be patient please.

and over time, when one continues to strive to attain an understanding (with God as the Teacher, of course), one will insha-Allah attain the perfect understanding - perfect here means the correct understanding according to, or meant by, God.

in this respect, whatever understanding you might have had at this point of time, there is nothing wrong about it. it is never wrong, for God has led you to attain such an understanding according to what you have strived for - the truth according to you, or according to Him. if you want the truth according to Him, then the very first thing to do is to acknowledge, appoint and respect His status as the Teacher. so learn from Him.

later on one will comprehend on how to acknowledge, appoint and respect His status as the Lord (the one in control of your life, learning, or even 'state' at this moment).

anyway, what is God to someone, if He is not the one in control of that particular someone, at this point of time?

so, please reflect on 2104. the Qur'an is for you and me, not some tales of the old. be careful, please.

also please consider this (96 - al-AAlaq)

Iqra/1 bi-ismi2 rabbika allathee khalaqa
Khalaqa al-insana min AAalaqin3
Iqra/ warabbuka al-akramu
Allathee AAallama bialqalami4
AAallama al-insana ma lam yaAAlam
Kalla inna al-insana layatgha5
An raahu istaghna6
Inna ila rabbika alrrujAAa7
You (s) ponder! In status, your Lord is the one who created.
He created the human to be 'in dependence'.
Ponder how your Lord is the most generous.
He is the one who taught progressively.
He taught what man did not know.
On the contrary, verily man is too much!
In that he considered himself self-sufficient.
Indeed it is to your Lord, the reference.

Notes

?to declaim, recite; to read; to peruse; to study.? ?to follow up, investigate, inquire; to check, verify.?
?(s) name; appelation; reputation, standing, prestige.
?(s) medicinal leech; leech; (coagulated) blood, blood clot.? ?hanging, suspension, dangling; sticking, clinging; attachment, affixed.? ~ Note the ?min? before ?AAalaq?.
?reed pen; pen; writing, script, handwriting; style; office, bureau, agency; window, counter; item, entry; stripe, streak, line.? ~ Note the ?bi? before ?qalam?.
?to exceed proper bounds, overstep the bounds, be excessive; to overflow.?
X ?to become rich; not to need, be able to do without, have no need, be in no need; to get by, do, be satisfied.?
[r-j-AA)?reactionism, reaction.?

'al-qur'an' then could simply mean 'the subjects for ponderment', or something to ponder over. thus, the subjects for ponderment in this post is in english, not some greek, please.

may God guide us all on the honourable path.

insha-Allah. peace!

mohammed noh

ayman

Peace Joe,

go easy please. let's consider this
2104. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la taqooloo raAAina waqooloo onthurna waismaAAoo walilkafireena AAathabun aleemun
2104. You who have faith, do not say, ?Heed us!? Say, ?Consider us when you listen.? And to disbelievers, it is a punishment of distress.

Thank you for the reminder.

so we have differences in understanding, e.g. in this word 'iqra''.
it is to be expected (God teaches in phases, remember?), and should be a non-issue, for the standard is God attains one an understanding that he/she is comfortable with, or without burdening him/her. remember that He knows everything in our hearts, and whatever understanding we are comfortable with at some particular point of time. He is teaching us right now. be patient please.
and over time, when one continues to strive to attain an understanding (with God as the Teacher, of course), one will insha-Allah attain the perfect understanding - perfect here means the correct understanding according to, or meant by, God.
in this respect, whatever understanding you might have had at this point of time, there is nothing wrong about it. it is never wrong, for God has led you to attain such an understanding according to what you have strived for - the truth according to you, or according to Him. if you want the truth according to Him, then the very first thing to do is to acknowledge, appoint and respect His status as the Teacher. so learn from Him.
later on one will comprehend on how to acknowledge, appoint and respect His status as the Lord (the one in control of your life, learning, or even 'state' at this moment).

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

anyway, what is God to someone, if He is not the one in control of that particular someone, at this point of time?

The god is in control of everything all the time (he is even in control of time itself).

so, please reflect on 2104. the Qur'an is for you and me, not some tales of the old. be careful, please.
also please consider this (96 - al-AAlaq)

Iqra/1 bi-ismi2 rabbika allathee khalaqa
Khalaqa al-insana min AAalaqin3
Iqra/ warabbuka al-akramu
Allathee AAallama bialqalami4
AAallama al-insana ma lam yaAAlam
Kalla inna al-insana layatgha5
An raahu istaghna6
Inna ila rabbika alrrujAAa7
You (s) ponder! In status, your Lord is the one who created.
He created the human to be 'in dependence'.
Ponder how your Lord is the most generous.
He is the one who taught progressively.
He taught what man did not know.
On the contrary, verily man is too much!
In that he considered himself self-sufficient.
Indeed it is to your Lord, the reference.

Notes

?to declaim, recite; to read; to peruse; to study.? ?to follow up, investigate, inquire; to check, verify.?

The primary meaning is to "read". Hence, we are told in the great reading to PAY ATTENTION while the great reading is read. How can you pay attention to "pondering" inside someone's head? This doesn't make any sense. Of course when one reads, one should ponder ("yatafakar&quot upon what he or she is reading. The word "quran" is intensified to indicate that it is "intense reading". But the first meaning is to read it. Afterwards you can ponder on what is read (this doesn't necessarily require a pen or a written document). There is nothing wrong with pondering and it is a nice thing. However, I think that one should use the primary meaning and the one that logically fits in the great reading and not try to force a meaning because it is nice.

You provide some interesting translations for other words that are worth considering. However, again one must be disciplined and not choose words because they sound nice without regards to logic and consistency throughout the great reading.

?(s) name; appelation; reputation, standing, prestige.
?(s) medicinal leech; leech; (coagulated) blood, blood clot.? ?hanging, suspension, dangling; sticking, clinging; attachment, affixed.? ~ Note the ?min? before ?AAalaq?.
?reed pen; pen; writing, script, handwriting; style; office, bureau, agency; window, counter; item, entry; stripe, streak, line.? ~ Note the ?bi? before ?qalam?.
?to exceed proper bounds, overstep the bounds, be excessive; to overflow.?
X ?to become rich; not to need, be able to do without, have no need, be in no need; to get by, do, be satisfied.?
[r-j-AA)?reactionism, reaction.?

'al-qur'an' then could simply mean 'the subjects for ponderment', or something to ponder over. thus, the subjects for ponderment in this post is in english, not some greek, please.

As with any good reading, the great reading is of course something to ponder over. This doesn't mean that we eliminate the word "read" from all languages and use the word "ponder" instead, no matter how "nice" this may sound.

Peace,

Ayman

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

@ayman thank you for sharing your opinion. With all due respect, I dont agree, nor do I believe that you have clear understanding of Arabic of Quran.

What Allah is commanding the Believer in Al-`Alaq 96 is to ponder, study, consider your creation NOT read from a Book of papers.

Iqra means ASK SOMEONE to be aware, contemplate, ponder, examine, investigate, explore, search, study
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 882 (qara?a)

Imperfect tense indicates present or future tense NOT past tense

Passive Verb denotes the act is taking place among someone discoverable, and the act is done either through a human agency or through an unknown inner cause (Reference ?Learn the Language of The Quran? page 24

Iqra is used in every instance in the Quran in present tense and future tense....NOT past tense

Day of Judgement....

(It will be said to him.) "Recite your (own) record. Sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against you."

Iqra kitabaka kafa binafsika alyawma AAalayka haseeban

Then he that will be given his Record in his right hand will say. "Ah here! Read you my Record!

Faamma man ootiya Kitabahu biyameenihi fayaqoolu haomu iqraoo kitabiyah

Joe_Betik

salaam ayman & all

please ponder that

surah 96 (al-AAalaq) was the first in the revelation order. (the command 'iqra'!' is to a singular person, i.e. in this regard it was to muhammad the 'nabiy'.) it is possible that there was a break in the delivery of the message to him after the first one. as a human being like you and me, he was most probably 'disturbed' by the 'delivery' of the message.

the message was revealed to muhammad the 'nabiy' in an oral form. the message was delivered internally (or within). in lay-man's lingo, the 'nabiy' heard this message within his ears, or in his head. (it was not from an external source, like him listening to a radio, for example, or 'jibreel' standing before him.)

perhaps you may now want to imagine yourself in that small hole (cave) in the mountains. you were alone meditating (seeking direct guidance from God), and suddenly you heard a voice - soft but audible, and firm, in your head, delivering a message. and that message was surah 96. how would you have felt?

then you began to talk to people about the message that you have received. how do you suppose people would have reacted? and how would you deal with the accusations - being possessed, mad, etc.?

in the surah immediately after al-AAalaq you will learn how the 'nabiy' was guided by God. in fact the guidance was very detailed, but the bottom-line is he learnt with God as the Teacher. God is the Compassionate Counselor.

if you were to follow the way of the 'nabiy' (read, ponder, meditate, and act accordingly to the guidance contained in the Qur'an), then you will personally experience (shahada) exactly what the 'nabiy' has gone through. then you will comprehend that the Qur'an is as 'alive' and 'relevant' to you now as it was in the times of the 'nabiy'. if you consider that the Qur'an is for you and me, like it as for the 'nabiy', then then you will comprehend the truth according to God.

most of us have considered the Qur'an to be a book of guidance. no doubt about it. however there are various attitudes toward it. some say it is subject to time variance, or regionalities, race, languages and semantics, etc. and most are carelessly adopting the attitude of mustahzioon, kafiroon, munafiqoon, mushrikoon, etc. please be careful with our casuality. not all believers in God and the last day believe in the guidance contained in the Qur'an. and not all believers in God and the last day acknowledge and revere God as the Teacher, or the 'Rabb'. but, whatever is your attitude, God is Watchfully Aware. and you shall reap whatever you sow.

2.15. Allahu yastahzi-o bihim wayamudduhum fee tughyanihim yaAAmahoona
2.15. God mocks them when He grants them with a delay; in their overindulgance, they are confused.

may God guide us on the honourable path.

insha-Allah. peace!

mohammed noh

Muslimtruthrevealed

963-4. Read and your lord the most honorable, who taught with the pen.

The pen only comes into play if we are READING (loud or silently) out of a written document. This is indisputable. If you want to argue further then argue with the god when you meet him about why he decided to use the word "pen" in there to make it clear that the meaning of "iqraa" is read while you think you know better and that it means "recite".

Even you are forced to acknowledge this indisputable fact despite whatever you say out of pride to save face since "write this down and then recite what you wrote" is indisputably another way of saying "read".

Peace,

Ayman

Assalaam Alaikum

@Ayman, again your being presumptuous, there is NOTHING being 'written' with a 'pen' that someone is using.

Allathee AAallama bi -qalami

transitive verb (AAallama) is a verb that takes both a subject (Al Qalami) and an object (Humans/Believer)

The ACTION, of a transitive verb, is NOT merely received by an object, but produces some CHANGE in the object

?Bi? is an inseparable preposition. It also denotes the object of the transitive verb (AAallama) and supports the subject (Al Qalami) that is termed Zaidah (additional)? Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 40-41 (Ba)

Qalama means to diminish, reduce, minify, minimize, make less, smaller

Qalam means to stripe something, streak, striation, striated something. Lines on something, band, bar (i.e. barcode, encode) something

Allama (perfect, PAST TENSE 3rd person, singular Verb Form II) He taught
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 383-384 (alama)

Verb Form II, emphasis, REPETITION, force, causative

Due to the Transitive nature of the word 'AAallama', we know that Allah is NOT using a 'pen' to 'write' on some papers. The verb 'AAallama' is in PAST TENSE and we know that Allah did NOT use a physical 'pen' to teach, inspire, write on Human Beings.

Allah did NOT 'write' or send the Quran on sheets of papers....

If We had sent unto you a written (message) on paper, so that they could touch it with their hands, the Unbelievers would have been sure to say. "This is nothing but obvious magic!"

Wa law nazzalna AAalayka kitaban fee qirtasin falamasoohu biaydeehim laqala allatheena kafaroo in hatha illa sihrun mubeenun

Qirtasin/ (Noun, tanween-kesra, indefinite) Book, Paper, What one writes upon;Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 452 (qartasa)

Supernaut

Peace everyone,

What I understand is that due to Persian influence, the Arabs tried to make the great reading a rigid scripture rather than let it be the flexible scripture it is and that despite the efforts of the Arabs to set rules for the language of the great scripture, Classical Arabic and the Arabic of the great reading are different. Perhaps the great reading will be around for as long as there'll be humans because its language will always be unconventional. I guess the following description of the US Constitution also applies to the language of the great reading

The concept of constitutional interpretation is foreign in some countries, where the constitution makes a reasonable effort to cover every eventuality. These constitutions are generally rigid and little changing, adapting slowly to advances in political views, popular opinion, technology, and changes in government. The U.S. Constitution, however, has been termed a Living Constitution, in part because it grows and adapts to internal and external pressures, changing from one era and generation to the next.

When a new situation arises, or even a new variation on an old situation, the Constitution is often looked to for guidance. It is at this point that the various interpretations of the Constitution come into play.

Source http//www.usconstitution.net/consttop_intr.html

I now think that the god chose an unconventional and hybridized form of Arabic for the great reading so that it would always be a tiny bit vague and interesting. Interesting, vague and quirky things tend to leave a lasting impact. At a party where everybody is dressed formally, but one person, who is dressed a bit strangely, you're more likely to be intrigued by the person who's dressed a bit strangely and you're likely to remember only them long after the party.

ayman

Peace Mohammed Noh,

please ponder that
surah 96 (al-AAalaq) was the first in the revelation order. (the command 'iqra'!' is to a singular person, i.e. in this regard it was to muhammad the 'nabiy'.) it is possible that there was a break in the delivery of the message to him after the first one. as a human being like you and me, he was most probably 'disturbed' by the 'delivery' of the message.

the message was revealed to muhammad the 'nabiy' in an oral form. the message was delivered internally (or within). in lay-man's lingo, the 'nabiy' heard this message within his ears, or in his head. (it was not from an external source, like him listening to a radio, for example, or 'jibreel' standing before him.)

Where is the evidence that the message was revealed in an ?oral form?? The message delivered ?internally? contradicts that it was in an oral form and ?in his head? is not ?oral? and ?in his ears? is not the same thing as ?in his head?. You really don?t know how the message was delivered, don?t you?

perhaps you may now want to imagine yourself in that small hole (cave) in the mountains. you were alone meditating (seeking direct guidance from God), and suddenly you heard a voice - soft but audible, and firm, in your head, delivering a message. and that message was surah 96. how would you have felt?

I am sorry but I would rather stick to the facts and not let my imagination run wild with speculation. Where did you get that there was a cave in the mountains? There was no cave, no meditation and no hearing little voices and none of this is mentioned in the great reading. This is all in your imagination.

then you began to talk to people about the message that you have received. how do you suppose people would have reacted? and how would you deal with the accusations - being possessed, mad, etc.?

If you go to a cave and come back telling me that you heard voices then yes, you most likely need professional psychological help. There is nothing in the great reading about any cave or little voices. What you are saying is based on pious fiction.

in the surah immediately after al-AAalaq you will learn how the 'nabiy' was guided by God. in fact the guidance was very detailed, but the bottom-line is he learnt with God as the Teacher. God is the Compassionate Counselor.
if you were to follow the way of the 'nabiy' (read, ponder, meditate, and act accordingly to the guidance contained in the Qur'an), then you will personally experience (shahada) exactly what the 'nabiy' has gone through. then you will comprehend that the Qur'an is as 'alive' and 'relevant' to you now as it was in the times of the 'nabiy'. if you consider that the Qur'an is for you and me, like it as for the 'nabiy', then then you will comprehend the truth according to God.

I agree. So, as you admit, the first step is to read the great reading. One has to read any book first before they can ponder, meditate and act on it. This is mundane common sense. Your problem is that you ignore this normal way that the god made humans learn (not just the great reading) and you are imagining caves and little voices. What you are saying is abnormal.

most of us have considered the Qur'an to be a book of guidance. no doubt about it. however there are various attitudes toward it. some say it is subject to time variance, or regionalities, race, languages and semantics, etc. and most are carelessly adopting the attitude of mustahzioon, kafiroon, munafiqoon, mushrikoon, etc. please be careful with our casuality. not all believers in God and the last day believe in the guidance contained in the Qur'an. and not all believers in God and the last day acknowledge and revere God as the Teacher, or the 'Rabb'. but, whatever is your attitude, God is Watchfully Aware. and you shall reap whatever you sow.
2.15. Allahu yastahzi-o bihim wayamudduhum fee tughyanihim yaAAmahoona
2.15. God mocks them when He grants them with a delay; in their overindulgance, they are confused.
may God guide us on the honourable path.
insha-Allah. peace!

The command to read/?iqraa? is not just directed at the prophet but it is directed at you and me and all of us. This is exactly what we do. Whether you agree with me or not when you hear the command to ?iqraa?, you don?t go to a cave and hear little voices in your head but you read the great reading. Whether you like it or not, you have to read first before you can ponder (as you admit above). So what I am saying is a matter of fact independent of whatever pious fiction anyone imagined.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace MTR,

@Ayman, again your being presumptuous, there is NOTHING being 'written' with a 'pen' that someone is using.

Words like ?nothing?, ?always? and ?never? should be used judiciously because such exclusive statements can get a person into logical trouble. I have here a copy of the great reading that has been written by a modern day pen (a printing press). I also have an electronic copy of the great reading and when I click on it, I see it written on my computer screen using LCD technology (a kind of electronic pen). So something is being written and something was written. This is reality.

Allathee AAallama bi -qalami

transitive verb (AAallama) is a verb that takes both a subject (Al Qalami) and an object (Humans/Believer)
The ACTION, of a transitive verb, is NOT merely received by an object, but produces some CHANGE in the object
?Bi? is an inseparable preposition. It also denotes the object of the transitive verb (AAallama) and supports the subject (Al Qalami) that is termed Zaidah (additional)? Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 40-41 (Ba)
Qalama means to diminish, reduce, minify, minimize, make less, smaller
Qalam means to stripe something, streak, striation, striated something. Lines on something, band, bar (i.e. barcode, encode) something
Allama (perfect, PAST TENSE 3rd person, singular Verb Form II) He taught
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 383-384 (alama)

So according to you the passage is translated as

?he taught by the diminishing/reduction/minimization?

Or

?he taught by the stripping/streaking/band/bar?

This is of course nonsense.

Verb Form II, emphasis, REPETITION, force, causative
Due to the Transitive nature of the word 'AAallama', we know that Allah is NOT using a 'pen' to 'write' on some papers. The verb 'AAallama' is in PAST TENSE and we know that Allah did NOT use a physical 'pen' to teach, inspire, write on Human Beings.

The god is not a native Arabic speaker either and we know that he doesn?t directly use Arabic or the ?Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 383-384? to teach humans about, for example what ?teach? means.

We can sit here and argue and speculate all we want. This will not change reality. The reality of the matter is that the vast majority of humans learn by reading written materials, including ?Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 383-384?. Sure, now the writing medium and instruments have progressed and expanded to include modern electronic pen and paper but the concept is unchanged. This is why in all education systems, reading is the most important and basic discipline. One of the modern theories of education is the theory of multiple-intelligences, which looks at the different ways humans learn. Out of all the different ways of learning, most humans are predominantly ?visual learners?. In other words, they learn more by reading and seeing than by hearing.

You are free to disregard this reality and instead of sending your children to school where they mainly learn by reading, send them to a cave everyday and hope that they learn by hearing little voices.

Allah did NOT 'write' or send the Quran on sheets of papers....
If We had sent unto you a written (message) on paper, so that they could touch it with their hands, the Unbelievers would have been sure to say. "This is nothing but obvious magic!"

Wa law nazzalna AAalayka kitaban fee qirtasin falamasoohu biaydeehim laqala allatheena kafaroo in hatha illa sihrun mubeenun
Qirtasin/ (Noun, tanween-kesra, indefinite) Book, Paper, What one writes upon;Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 452 (qartasa)

Chapter 96 doesn?t say anything about ?sending down?. It simply says that the god teaches (generally) with the pen. It doesn?t even say that the god only teaches the great reading with the pen or only the prophet with the pen. So this statement applies generally. We can verify that this statement is true in everything we learn. We would learn much more by reading everyday than by going to a cave and hoping to hear little voices everyday.

In fact, you learned the above by reading the written with the pen Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 452 and not by going to a cave and hearing voices. So you are learning by the pen. This is reality. What you do with what you learn is up to you.

Peace,

Ayman

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum @Ayman

Again, With all due respect, I believe you are not well versed in Arabic of the Quran and its grammatical references and indications.

@Ayman You also seem to be struggling with accepting Allah's guidance and influence.

Iqra biismi rabbika allathee khalaqa

Iqra means ASK SOMEONE to be aware, contemplate, ponder, examine, investigate, explore, search, study
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 882 (qara?a)

Imperfect tense indicates present or future tense meaning ?Is?, occurring NOW and in the Future

Passive Verb denotes the act is taking place among someone discoverable, and the act is done either through a human agency or through an unknown inner cause (Reference ?Learn the Language of The Quran? page 24

@Ayman, Allah is giving a command, an order, not writing with pen or chalk on a blackboard. Allah is 'etching, creating striations, encoding, bar coding' the hearts of the Believers with guidance and tools for understanding.

Example

You wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such Allah has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself / olaika KATABA fee QULOOBIHIMU al-eemana waayyadahum biroohin minhu. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.

Kataba means ?to write, note, record, prescribe, ordain, destine, decree, transcribe,, command, inscribe Katibun/Katiban/Katibu/Kutubun means ?a scribe, one who writes, writings

As a result of the 'writing' upon the heart....

And Likewise, We have inspired you the ROOH/THE SPIRIT from OUR order, you did not have the perception, what is THE BOOK and the BELIEF/Eeeman, but We have made it light / Nur, We guide with it whom We will from Our servants. And surely you guide towards the straight path / siratin mustaqeemin.

...thus by following and 'pondering, analyzing' what has been 'written' upon our hearts...we are guided to...

The Way of Allah / Sirati Allahi, to Whom belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Behold (how) all affairs tend towards Allah!

Joe_Betik

salaam ayman,

i was only asking you to consider, and ponder without prejudice, but you have taken a different course.

i wasn't asking you to take my words for the truth. no. not even the false. it was a suggestion to consider, and ponder without prejudice, for the whole truth is with God. read the Qur'an without any baggage, intellectual or ortherwise. go ask God.

and when you have got the answers, read again what you have written. perhaps you will then be asking yourself, "Who was my Lord when i wrote that post?" or in lay-man's terms, "Who was in control of me when i wrote that post?"

if the asking of you to consider, and ponder without prejudice is too much of me, then my apologies please. 'lakum deenukum, waliyaddeen', indeed.

i am writing with full awareness of this verse in particular

Wamina alnnasi man yuAAjibuka qawluhu fee alhayati alddunya wayushhidu Allaha AAala ma fee qalbihi wahuwa aladdu alkhisami
And some people astonishes you (s) with his accounts about the life of this world while God is observing what is in his heart, and he is the most argumentative in disputes.

i shall leave your post as it is. arguing for the sake of arguing is not my cup of tea, especially at breakfast time here in malaysia. peace

may God guide us on the honourable path.

insha-Allah. peace.

mohammed noh

ayman

Peace Mohammed,

i was only asking you to consider, and ponder without prejudice, but you have taken a different course.
i wasn't asking you to take my words for the truth. no. not even the false. it was a suggestion to consider, and ponder without prejudice, for the whole truth is with God. read the Qur'an without any baggage, intellectual or ortherwise. go ask God.
and when you have got the answers, read again what you have written. perhaps you will then be asking yourself, "Who was my Lord when i wrote that post?" or in lay-man's terms, "Who was in control of me when i wrote that post?"
if the asking of you to consider, and ponder without prejudice is too much of me, then my apologies please. 'lakum deenukum, waliyaddeen', indeed.
i am writing with full awareness of this verse in particular
2204. Wamina alnnasi man yuAAjibuka qawluhu fee alhayati alddunya wayushhidu Allaha AAala ma fee qalbihi wahuwa aladdu alkhisami
2204. And some people astonishes you (s) with his accounts about the life of this world while God is observing what is in his heart, and he is the most argumentative in disputes.
i shall leave your post as it is. arguing for the sake of arguing is not my cup of tea, especially at breakfast time here in malaysia. peace
may God guide us on the honourable path.
insha-Allah. peace.

I agree with your general stance. I don't agree with your specific translation of the word "iqraa". Just because we disagree and debate about something, it doesn't mean that we are disputing. Try to focus on the positive things.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace MTR,

Again, With all due respect, I believe you are not well versed in Arabic of the Quran and its grammatical references and indications.
@Ayman You also seem to be struggling with accepting Allah's guidance and influence.
Iqra biismi rabbika allathee khalaqa
Iqra means ASK SOMEONE to be aware, contemplate, ponder, examine, investigate, explore, search, study
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 882 (qara?a)
Imperfect tense indicates present or future tense meaning ?Is?, occurring NOW and in the Future
Passive Verb denotes the act is taking place among someone discoverable, and the act is done either through a human agency or through an unknown inner cause (Reference ?Learn the Language of The Quran? page 24
@Ayman, Allah is giving a command, an order, not writing with pen or chalk on a blackboard. Allah is 'etching, creating striations, encoding, bar coding' the hearts of the Believers with guidance and tools for understanding.
Example
You wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such Allah has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself / olaika KATABA fee QULOOBIHIMU al-eemana waayyadahum biroohin minhu. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.
Kataba means ?to write, note, record, prescribe, ordain, destine, decree, transcribe,, command, inscribe Katibun/Katiban/Katibu/Kutubun means ?a scribe, one who writes, writings
As a result of the 'writing' upon the heart....
And Likewise, We have inspired you the ROOH/THE SPIRIT from OUR order, you did not have the perception, what is THE BOOK and the BELIEF/Eeeman, but We have made it light / Nur, We guide with it whom We will from Our servants. And surely you guide towards the straight path / siratin mustaqeemin.
...thus by following and 'pondering, analyzing' what has been 'written' upon our hearts...we are guided to...
The Way of Allah / Sirati Allahi, to Whom belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Behold (how) all affairs tend towards Allah!

MTR, why don't you provide your translation of Chapter 96 so that we can see if it makes sense.

Peace,

Ayman

Muslimtruthrevealed

Peace MTR,

MTR, why don't you provide your translation of Chapter 96 so that we can see if it makes sense.

Peace,

Ayman

Assalaam Alaikum @Ayman

Im not concerned about 'translations', your free to pick any one or several that you deem as sensible.