Marriage Issue? How many wives/husbands?
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salam raj-ah. there are two pieces of evidence to prove polygyny is wajib.
the quran refers to azwajan, wives indicating that the quran controls the issue of wives. the quran also does not prohibit or discourage wives, its is neither haram or makruh.
the mathala cited by the quran of some marriages contains a narrative of the prophets marriage and his wives, a clear indication that allah, not only approved of wives, but provided examples of wives as a guidance.
this double emphasis on wives is concrete proof wives are permitted.
allah is the law.
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salam supernaut and sweden majidah. you have both comitted shirk. both of you have associated an article on a website with allah. it is bad enough that people try and associate hadith with the quran. when those who reject the quran, look for ways to reject, the first thing they do is commit shirk.
if the both of you find articles from anton lavey on a website on satanism, and you find it convincing, will you then claim you agree with anton lavey and satanism?
allah exposes falsehood with the truth.
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Salaam,
I'm convinced that polygamy isn't allowed. The article that convinced me it isn't can be found at http//www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/polygamy.html
You can find articles on "What your oaths possess" at http//free-minds.org/taxonomy/term/12
I'm convinced that polygamy is allowed. Do you believe that the verse in the Quran that deals with marrying up to four wives means nothing?
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salam supernaut and sweden majidah. you have both comitted shirk. both of you have associated an article on a website with allah. it is bad enough that people try and associate hadith with the quran. when those who reject the quran, look for ways to reject, the first thing they do is commit shirk.
if the both of you find articles from anton lavey on a website on satanism, and you find it convincing, will you then claim you agree with anton lavey and satanism?
allah exposes falsehood with the truth.
Its alot more productive to provide basis for debate and discussion than just throwing accusations of heresy.
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I'm convinced that polygamy is allowed. Do you believe that the verse in the Quran that deals with marrying up to four wives means nothing?
There is no verse in the Arabic Quran that allows up to 4 wives...that fallacy ONLY exists in english and erroneous, misleading interpretations
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Peace,
That article made of Br Yaseen was the best one I have ever read of the polygamy issue.
Maria
Brotha Yaseen's article is excellent work, but there are a number of mistakes and misinterpretations.
Al-Nisa'a 4.3
yatama does NOT means 'orphans'
yatama sole, unmatched, single, lonely, jaded, one withoutparents; Root word atamm means more complete, more perfect, perfectly prepared, totally ready; Root word Tamm meaning consummate, of full value, self contained, needing no completion; Root word Tamma means to or become complete, completed, finished, done, to be performed, be accomplished, to come to an end; Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. page 117-118 (tamma)
Brother Yaseen did NOT account for the Ma / , negation
Ma Negative particle when placed BEFORE a perfect verb (taba / ) or BEFORE a pronoun or BEFORE a demonstrative noun. Also used as a negative particle BEFORE a perfect tense among verbal forms.; Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 523-524 (ma)
Brother Yaseen's reference and translation ? mina alnnisa-i? ?from the women? , 'mina' is incorrect and does not exist in the ayah .
/ manna an-nisa'i 'bestowed/blessed with Women'
Manna (with shaddah) means to be kind, gracious, show, grant, favor, blessing, benefits, award, present, give, bestow, bless; Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 1084-1086 (man)
*The above example manna / versus 'mina', illustrates the problem with deleting or ignoring the harakat / diacritical characters in the Arabic Quran. The meaning, context and application of the ayah is perverted and corrupted when the harakat / diacritical characters are ignored.
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There is no verse in the Arabic Quran that allows up to 4 wives...that fallacy ONLY exists in english and erroneous, misleading interpretations
What do you believe 43 says and means?
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What do you believe 43 says and means?
Ma = NOT Taba = good/lawful Lakum =TO/For YOU to be given the Manna = favor/gift/blessing/benefit of Al Nisai = (get married to) Women Mathna = 2, Thulatha = 3, and Rubaa = 4 TIMES
Fain = Therefore Khiftum = If you fear Alla = that you will fall short of your duty and obligation in marriage taAAdiloo = to act justly Fa = conjunctive particle ADJECTIVE of Subject (An-Nisa) wahidatan = Then Marry ONE TIME indefinitely (NOT 2, 3 and 4 TIMES)
IT IS NOT LAWFUL to divorce get married, divorce get married, divorce get married again and divorce and get married again (and in doing so leave a family behind EACH time!)
The ayah is speaking to divorce NOT number of wives!
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Dear Fellow Muslim brothers and sisters,
Salam-un-alaikum
brickwall
Yaa
what is the opposite of marriage, i guess divorce, and does divorce leaves orphans? hmm
Why if and when separated for three or more times, the wife have to have another husband before marrying again to old hubby?
These issues of marriage and divorce are you know .....................Com........pli.......Cat.....ted.
And why not consult Sahoofe-ul-uula Sahoofe Ibraheema wa Moosa.Moses had two, both sisters, one after the other and this practice was later on forbidden.
Every body is an Aalim.brickwall
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salam. muslimtruthrevealed is forging lies against the quran.
there is nothing valid in her rubbish translations. to correct her errors would require pages of corrections.
allah exposes falsehood.
Is it possible for you to refrain from ad hominem attacks? You accuse people of lying, blaspheming, and idol worshiping all the time. It's unpleasant and it makes you look bad so you should stop for your own sake.
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salam. muslimtruthrevealed is forging lies against the quran.
there is nothing valid in her rubbish translations. to correct her errors would require pages of corrections.
allah exposes falsehood.
I'd probably agree. MTR, you never replied to one of my questions. So I couldn't agree with the "not allowed to marry more than four" argument.
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Opinions have no value in a intellectual discussion....
The other fallacy, just because you dont agree with something or in denial does not suggest that the argument lacks merit and truth.
Who really cares about your opinion or whether you disagree?
The Quran stands on its own, you cant change it, pervert it or modify it.
Get over it......
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Opinions have no value in a intellectual discussion....
The other fallacy, just because you dont agree with something or in denial does not suggest that the argument lacks merit and truth.
Who really cares about your opinion or whether you disagree?
The Quran stands on its own, you cant change it, pervert it or modify it.
Get over it......
Can you perhaps explain "sole, unmatched, single, lonely, jaded, one withoutparents" specifically the "one without parents". What's that supposed to be? What would a person have to qualify, to be a "alyatama"? Seriously, if you have something better than someone who is an orphan (such as one without a father) who is either ready for marriage age or not, then please make it clear.
Though I wouldn't specifically say, that if you can't provide for above, that you are forging lies; but I would say you'd be creating some by default (perhaps unintentionally).
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There is no restriction on the max number that one can marry , however , in case of widows, with children , who are likely to come under your guardian ship, the recommendation is to restrict such nikahs to 4, but if you can afford , you can go beyond this number as well.
siki
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There is no restriction on the max number that one can marry , however , in case of widows, with children , who are likely to come under your guardian ship, the recommendation is to restrict such nikahs to 4, but if you can afford , you can go beyond this number as well.
siki
Siki, Can you produce Quranic support for your statement please.
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Can you perhaps explain "sole, unmatched, single, lonely, jaded, one withoutparents" specifically the "one without parents". What's that supposed to be? What would a person have to qualify, to be a "alyatama"? Seriously, if you have something better than someone who is an orphan (such as one without a father) who is either ready for marriage age or not, then please make it clear.
Though I wouldn't specifically say, that if you can't provide for above, that you are forging lies; but I would say you'd be creating some by default (perhaps unintentionally).
Al-Yatama has a Definite Article , which makes the word COMPLETE, EXCLUSIVE, INCLUSIVE AND NON-EXCLUSIVE of ALL the meanings related to the root.
Here are the meanings and the roots
yatama sole, unmatched, single, lonely, jaded, one withoutparents; Root word atamm means more complete, more perfect, perfectly prepared, totally ready; Root word Tamm meaning consummate, of full value, self contained, needing no completion; Root word Tamma means to or become complete, completed, finished, done, to be performed, be accomplished, to come to an end;
An 'Orphan' is NOT
more complete (for marriage)
more perfect (for marriage)
perfectly prepared (for marriage)
totally ready (for marriage)
ready to consummate (marriage)
of full potential/value
self sufficient/contained
needing no guidance/completion (for marriage)
to or become complete (physically, intellectually, mentally,etc.)
completed (preparing for marriage)
finished (preparing for marriage)
done (preparing for marriage)
ready to perform (marriage)
ready to accomplish (marriage)
to come to an end (preparing for marriage)
When Allah refers to 'orphans' the word is yateem
And for His love they feed the food to the miskeen / the needy (who is reduced to poverty) and the yateem / orphan and aseer / captive.
No, No! but you honour not the orphans / al-yateema!
?Al? is a Definite Article , used to give the meaning of ?Most, All, Complete, Maximum, Whole, and to denote comprehensiveness, all aspects or categories of a subject, or to denote perfection and includes all degrees and grades.
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Salaam
first of all I am sorry that after starting a thread i was unable to post in it for some time.
Actually this issue of marriage is very important and if get a correct or near to correct answer it will lead us to solve many unresolved issues.As i assumed correctly, like many other issues we are confused regarding this isuue too. What the article recommended by supernaut and majidah says, i will comment on it later but yet we have not understood what is being asked.
Polygamy means a system of marriage whereby one person has more than one spouse. Polygamy can be of two types. One is polygyny where a man marries more than one woman, and the other is polyandry, where a woman marries more than one man.
Therefore it is complicated situation, Quran talks about Polygyne and not about polyandry.Before starting discussion on the issue let me please comment on the article mentioned by some of posters.
As usual like most of the moderen day scholars do, the article starts with right away bashing of old scholars, underminining there works all what has been happening from centuries just based on myth bla bla. I am sorry to say after reading the first paragraph of the article I cannot rate it as excellent at least, as majidah or any other might think.
Well we discuss it in detail in my next post. -
Salaam'
First of all we have to get out of the inferiority complex. Yaseen, I think is a European and is definitely impressed by many of the existing cultural values there. Well we have no objection to that. But the problem starts when impressed by some latest ideology or cultural value he tries to change the Quran according to his own wishes and thoughts. Off course I am not saying that he or any one who does this have bad intentions.
For example consider why this issue of many wives was not raised till a century ago? with all these crackers, simply because it was not an issue then. Presently in Europe Muslims are bashed and criticised for practicing polygene, because Europeans think it is not good not just, however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry. They forget that few centuries back the Hindus, and even Jews practiced Polygene. In Judaism Polygene was permitted. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had 2 wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygene continued until Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah. (960 A.D to 1030 A.D) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, when an Act of the chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.
Slavery is another example for which Islam is criticised, more than ever at present. Again, until last century the west was the champion of slavery most of their wealth owes to the trading of slaves, but as soon it was abolished and its negative points over came its positive points, many Muslim scholars came ahead trying to convince that Islam was the first to abolish slavery. That was with good intentions but not the reality.
I have never seen so much deviation from original meanings of ayat as is done in this article.
What I mean to say is that when the writer starts reading Quran to answer a question he has already arrived at a conclusion, the conclusion that Polygene is not good and not just.
There have been many explanations to above ayat of Surah Nisa. The one that fits the most according to our understanding, we will discuss it shortly.
We must know that Quran was not send to us in a book shape it was revealed, part by part, many of the Ayats are general and many are specific for the problems of the people those were faced at the time.
After the battle of Uhd, when many Muslims were killed, many new problems arose which were never there before. One was of the orphans and widows.Now let us discuss the Ayat and its meanings and translation according to Yaseen.