A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ
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Just to share response from Ourbeacon forum this time for a change.
UmeAimon
Joined 28 Jan 2007
Posts 140
Location UAE
Posted Fri Dec 12, 2008 513 am Post subject
Salam every one and happy belated EID,
Brother Badar while I sincerely hope all your effort bear some fruit, I am curious to know, how did you understand this verse?
5417
Walaqad yassernalQuraana lizzakrae fahal min muddakiriThe reason why I need to know this... I?ll tell you when I know your understanding about this verse.
Thank you and jazakAllah
UmeAimon
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bkanwar2
Joined 24 Jan 2007
Posts 76
Location Iowa
Posted Sat Dec 13, 2008 130 pm Post subject
Sister, thanks for the reply. I do not at this time know what exactly is the meaning of this verse. But with preliminary effort, I can tell you this much that the conventional understanding of this verse is not correct either. It will take me sometime but once I am reasonably comfortable I will post the meaning of this verse.
Conventional understandings being "And indeed, We have made the Qur'an easy to understand. Then, is there any who will learn?"Badar
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Salaam Badar,
From my current knowledge
=
= preposition indicating that the action/thing is aimed to/for whatever word that follows.
= the definite article of Arabic. When following , the alif is dropped.
= active participle in form VIII of the root , a so called doubly weak verb ( ).
The normal construction of active participle in form VIII would be (for the root ). However, in verbs where the initial root (R1) is , the and the merges into a doubled . This is consistent through form VIII, not only for the active participle. Also, if the final root (R3) is , it?s dropped when constructing the active participle. This is consistent through all forms.= plural ending in genitive (since following preposition ).
That?s as far as grammar and morphology goes I think? There are free grammar books available at StudyQuran (www.studyquran.co.uk), I?m sure they can be of help.
Good luck with your studies!
Peace!
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Erik, thanks for trying. But if you look at Quranic structure I have posted, it is out of 22, as it is. The first , has implying doubling of meaning binding of two words and hence two Lams, followed by . with gezm on it indicating end of word/pharse.
Badar
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My response to question of a sister from ourbeacon forum
bkanwar2
Joined 24 Jan 2007
Posts 77
Location Iowa
Posted Mon Dec 15, 2008 455 pm Post subject
Sister UmeAimon, here is my understanding of 5417. It still needs some final touches.
And verily we shall rejoice, be glad and happy. This is the system I have firmly and ultimately established. Let yourselves turn against this pleasant, delightful and desirable system. I will continue the respite and leave you alone for a while. Eventually, I shall, after your flight, cause you to return back to it.
Badar
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Erik, thanks for trying. But if you look at Quranic structure I have posted, it is out of 22, as it is. The first , has implying doubling of meaning binding of two words and hence two Lams, followed by . with gezm on it indicating end of word/pharse.
Badar
Yes, true, I missed that. I thought your focus was on the word muttaqiin.
Peace
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Thanks Eric, the point I am trying to make is that we approach the text of Alkitab with preconcieved notions and meanings. Hence, over look simple and obvious facts relating to writting of script. Therefore, I keep calling this Arabic as a lost language. Furthermore, after Miim there are TWO Taas suggested by a teshdeed. It is not a word but actuallly a complete sentence written together with signs of seperation and binding of the words i.e., gezm and teshdeed.
Badar
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I am trying to convience myself. The reason native speakers of Arabic are unable to understand real meaning of Alkitab is not because they do not know the language. Instead it is because of preconcieved meanings and lack of understanding of this fact, as it is. In my native language or even in English, which I am now reasonably well versed with. If do not understand a word's meaning. Instead of looking it up in a dictionary or grammar book, I persume the meaning of word that fits the context of understanding. However, this is always a fatal mistake as upon checking the meanings of this word, meaning of whole sentence changes. Same is true with AlKitab. Since I am trying to learn the language of Alkitab. I refer to a Lexicon and a grammar book at every step and not take the supposed meanings.
Here is the break down of , now I think natives will know the meaning without having to resort to a dictionary.
= & ,
Badar
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For those, like myself, whose native language is not Arabic and use English as language of acquiring knowledge. An understanding of . "Let not be amongst, unable to guard from being senseless, deprived of intellectual faculty, full of sorrow & grief, stagnant, sleepy or drunk and life less" (Guard from includes all meaning rendered after guard).
Badar
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Dr. Shabbir
Site AdminJoined 24 Dec 2006
Posts 791
Location Florida, USA
Posted Wed Dec 17, 2008 1111 am Post subject
Respected Dr. Badar,
Many friends are asking how you derive the meanings of verses in a brand new form.
I think, giving them the key to unlock the Arabic text as you do, might be of much help.
Wassalam,
SA -
Joined 24 Jan 2007
Posts 82
Location Iowa
Posted Mon Dec 22, 2008 352 pm Post subject
Respected Dr. Shabbir and very Dear brother Arnold. At your suggestion and many others. I humbly submit following. Please read it and also verify it from pages below. Brother Arnold, I exactly know what your are saying. However, what you say is only part of the problem. Hope this write up might help to explain other parts of the puzle as well.
Finally my utmost gratitude to my friend Dr. Khalid Naseer for valuable suggestions in this write up.
Summarizing the methodology of understanding and translating Alkitab
I use widely accepted and respected English translations of Classic Arabic Lexicon and Grammar books. These include
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An Arabic English Lexicon By Edward William Lane.(an authentic work of translation based on respected Arabic lexicons such as Taj al-Arus, and many others).
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A Grammar of the Arabic Language by W. Wright (Based on Arabic authentic Grammar books cited in preface of his Book)
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A Grammar of Classical Arabic Third Revised Edition Wolfdietrich Fischer; Translated from the German by Jonathan Rodgers
From these books I understood following. In Arabic script writing the implications of some of the terms and signs used are as follows.
- A Gezm 1 is used to indicate declinable words attached to other words.
- A Sukoon1 is to indicate a Non Mutherick consonant in a non-declinable word.
- A Teshdeed 2 indicates binding of two words, one ending and other beginning with the same consonant.
The implications of above terms on the Arabic written script are that words can be so to call, zipped together. Hence what are commonly understood to be words are not only separated by space between them in the Alkitab. In addition word separation is indicated by above three signs. Hence, one needs to unzip them based on the above marks. This unzipping allows one to realize what words are written together. Once this is achieved it makes lexical and grammatical understanding much easier. Now let us illustrate this with an example.
22
= ia a combination of 3 a demonstrative pronoun, plus , a demonstrative syllable, plus , a second person pronominal suffix.
commonly is translated as ?this or that?. However, Arabic has another word called with same meaning. Curiously enough Alkitab has preferred former over later. At a closer look it appears both are derived from demonstrative pronoun . When is added to it indicated closeness in time whereas denotes to both close and distant i.e., past and future as well present. Hence can not be just translated ?as this or that?. But real meanings are ?this is eternal? ( such a this which incorporates now and distant) plus means ?to or for? with emphasis plus a second person pronoun meaning you. Now the meaning becomes ?this is eternal and surely for you?.
= Is combination of 4 definite article The plus 5 A written book of law
6=absolute negation means not
7 = undoubtedly
8 = Is a combination of plus = However, this is genitive of = the mouth with a personal pronoun makes a phrase = from my mouth
9 = guide yourself to it
=
On first there is with kesr suggesting binding of two words that is followed by with gezm indicating end of word. Then there is with damma could be used in place of , followed by a with . This suggests two from of binding two words one ending and other beginning with . In this case and . Now finally has gezm on suggesting separation from .= let
= Absolute negation ?Not?
10= senseless, deprived on intellectual faculty, full of sorrow and grief, stagnant sleepy or drunk and lifeless.
11= able to guard
= plural suffixed pronounNow the translation should read as following
?This is an eternally written book of law for you. Undoubtedly from my mouth. So guide yourselves through it. Let not be senseless, deprived of intellectual faculty, full of sorrow & grief, stagnant, sleepy or drunk and lifeless (all meanings of .). Enable yourself to guard against it ( ت?.
1 Jezm and Sukoon=http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000057.pdf
2. Teshdeed= http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000242.pdf
3. Thal Alif http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000113.pdf
4. Alif Lam= http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000111.pdf
5. Kaf Ta Ba= http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000118.pdf
6. Lam Alif= http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000260.pdf
7. Ra Ya Ba= http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000363.pdf
8. Fa Waw ha= http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000248.pdf
9. ha Dal Ya http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000296.pdf
10. Miim Waw Ta= http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000269.pdf
11. Ta-Qaf Ya= http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000346.pdf -
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Salaam bkanwar
Back to your unbased, weird theory!
I have already had a lengthy discussion with you here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597852.0
and showed you how you misread Lane's.and again you tried this here with no response
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597823.0
Please show me why you are inserting an alif and a waw in these two words
= Absolute negation ?Not?
10= senseless, deprived on intellectual faculty, full of sorrow and grief, stagnant sleepy or drunk and lifeless.and where in the quraan do you find the word death, or any other wrod with any meaning written like this ?
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Dear Herbman, very pertinent question and extremely important one too. If I use it to seperate two words, the meaning is still good. In fact it relates to previous Sura well. I am glad there are some who are paying attention and doing some home work.
My very respected sister, Samia (very respected, because I have learned a lot due to interacting with you). I will get back to you on your query, as it is very important one as well. It requires some linguistic explanations, for which some background understanding is needed, which by grace of Rub, you have a lot.
Badar
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Dear Herbman, very pertinent question and extremely important one too. If I use it to seperate two words, the meaning is still good. In fact it relates to previous Sura well. I am glad there are some who are paying attention and doing some home work.
My very respected sister, Samia (very respected, because I have learned a lot due to interacting with you). I will get back to you on your query, as it is very important one as well. It requires some linguistic explanations, for which some background understanding is needed, which by grace of Rub, you have a lot.
Badar
Thanks bkanwar and sorry if I were a bit harsh. But believe me, I tried to understand your theory and read your references but did not find any base for it in them.
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Sisters are always worthy of respect and love. I never felt any harshness from you at all. In fact, I learnt a lot. Hence, I owe you a lots of thanks. I will try to explain again. But first I need to put my thoughts together, so I can express better. So I may take some time in responding to your query.
Badar
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salamun alaykum,
who are almuttaqeen?
lets read al-baqarah
transliteration
- Alif-lam-meem
- Thalika alkitabu la rayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeena
- Allatheena yu/minoona bialghaybi wayuqeemoona alssalata wamimma razaqnahum yunfiqoona
- Waallatheena yu/minoona bima onzila ilayka wama onzila min qablika wabial-akhirati hum yooqinoona
- Ola-ika AAala hudan min rabbihim waola-ika humu almuflihoona
the message (The Monotheist Group)
21 ALM.
22 This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.
23 Those who believe in the unseen, and hold the outreaching, and from Our provisions to them they spend.
24 And those who believe in what was sent down to you, and what was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.
25 These are the ones guided by their Lord, and these are the successful ones.my personal comprehension
21. Feel.
22. That is the message without doubt, therein, guidance for the mindful/alert/aware/enlightened.
23. They are those who believe in the ghayb/hidden, and establish/correct/honor the relationship, and whatever We gave them, they give out.
24. And they are those who believe in what was revealed to you (s), and what was revealed before you, and in the end/finally they are certain.
25. These people act in accordance with the guidance of their Lord, and these people, they are the successful ones.notes
• verse 1 & 2 - the 'feel' here is more than 'gut feeling'. this is an 'advanced' stage of 'feel' that one is attained by God which in the qur'an is detailed so that we can strive to achieve/attain. it is attained by progression - from merely a sensational feeling of surety or anxiety to a feel of cognizance on the state of things. but the key factor here is the sense of peacefulness/calmness/serenity/tranquility one is at heart - in a way, this sense is likened as the compass, where one can have a sense of surety of the message or otherwise. at this state, one's mind is at rest (non-thinking state), and whatever he speaks is the truth, not only for the listeners but above all is for him/herself. some people term this delivery of the message as 'laduni', but it beats me. people who have been attained this state by God are termed as 'almuttaqeen', and at other places also 'ulil albab' or the chosen ones. so, not everyone is attained such a state, but those who honestly strives to be close to God and be correctly guided by God. insha-Allah. for them there is definitely a message in the feel. please read other surah with 'a-l-m' as the opening verse. insha-Allah you'll be attained the correct comprehension.
• verse 3 - these are people who believe in the ghayb/hidden, such as God who is present in absence, and they establish/correct/honor the relationship/bond with ghayb/hidden, thus when a message is sent to them by the ghayb/hidden they know assuredly about the message. and they propagate the message they had received, fully, without doctoring them - to add or subtract, to hide or complicate. thus they deliver as is.
• verse 4 - these people, they believe in what was sent to them and those before them, because they know the messages are the same or similar in principle or value. in later verses we are told that 'they know the message like they know their children.' thus they are assured of the truthfulness of the message they had received.
the above verses implied that everyone of us could receive direct messages from God. however, to receive correct messages from God one must among other things
• acknowledge, correct and honor the relationship/bond/salat with God - thus following the directives explained in the qur'an, not only on the way/method to approach/qiblat Him, but also on what to do when messages are delivered/revealed, etc. the salat/relationship/bond is the core/fundamental, as only with correct approach/qiblat one can expect to be close to God. establish/observe/correct/honor the salat/relationship/bond with God at the appointed/determined times (11114 and others) - moment of waking up, during sunset and during the night.
• spend time with and for God and be prompt on the appointed/determined times as mentioned above which we were told in the qur'an
• if you want to be sharp in mind, perhaps you may want to consider to observe, closely/attentively, at the moment of waking up for God may manifest to you, and insha-Allah you will have a personal experience with God. you may read further in al-qalam.
• if you want to have a feel of the greatness/al-azeez of God, then perhaps you may want to consider to establish/observe/correct/honor the salat/relationship/bond with God during the sunset. insha-Allah you could 'enjoy' the pleasure or feel of having appointed God as your God and Rabb. you may read further in bani israel.
• if you want to secure direct messages from God, then perhaps you may want to consider spending some parts of the night meditating/contemplating/pondering on God. you may read further in al-muzzammil.
• for the really serious, meditate/ponder/contemplate in the hills/mountains. we have read in the qur'an about God acknowledging that the mountains/hills are appropriate places for meditating/contemplating/pondering. people make holes (caves) in the mountains/hills as places for meditating/contemplating/pondering.
• perhaps you may want to consider communicating with God. talk about your happiness, miseries, fear, etc., because He is attentively listening. in relationships, communication is mandatory. thus, you may tell, ask or plead, but be respectful with God. He will communicate with you, insha-Allah. perhaps it is a speech (al-muzzammil), a feel, an overwhelming power/energy, etc. it is all His choice, as far as communicating with man is concerned.
• when a message is delivered to you, do not straight away tell people about it - in fact it is immature to tell people about it (read 2187). but please spend ten days meditating/contemplating/pondering without talking with people (saum). preferably spend the ten days in seclusion, so that you could fully concentrate on God without disturbs. thus in the verse, having sex during the 'saum' is not allowed because the female is the shield to the male and the male is a shield to the woman, when in direct communion with God - a shield here implies a barrier between a person and God. if you want an interruption free communication with God, then refrain from having sex during the 'saum'. (please consider reading 'layl' metaphorically or in the context of the phrase of 'laylata alssiyami'.)
• when it is time to deliver the message (hajj/persuasion), do it accordingly - no doctoring, don't cut short or go overboard, or make it difficult for people, etc.
• sometimes you have propagated a misunderstood message. but it is ok. God has allowed for 'umrah' or corrections/rectifications, meaning you must correct the propagation of the misunderstood message. essentially 2196 shows that God knows about the possibility of man misunderstanding some of the messages since some ayat/signs/signals are 'mutashabihan'/allegorical/difficult to understand, the possibility of being misunderstood. thus, ask for God's forgiveness and do the 'umrah'/corrections/rectifications.
• everyone who has been given/revealed/divulged with a message will be asked about what they do about the message, whether they act accordingly or otherwise, whether they tell people about it or otherwise, whether they tell in full or doctored, etc. thus be careful about God's message and don't take His ayat/signs/signals lightly.
if you are willing to consider the above, then you will undoubtedly see how God is 'alrrahmani alrraheemi' (al-fatihah). and how He teaches man accordingly by progression (al-'alaq and others).
please consider to ponder the above appropriately. do not dismiss or adopt out-rightly. when you are not sure, just ask God about them. you will be attained an appropriate comprehension, insha-Allah.
may God guide us all on the correct/honorable path. insha-Allah.
be at peace
mohammed noh