How can we be sure that Jesus did not die on the cross?
-
LOL!! Rami and Al Araf you 2 are a hoot!! The 10 commandments a myth!! Where are you getting your information?
LOL!! Rami - You are really literal there, too funny, LOL!! Well I try to follow the Gospel!!
What is wrong with the Noahide Laws?
Matthew 22
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."I like that last Bible verse
40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."Gospel actually means Good News- Jesus is the Good News for all of man.
John 1
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
John the Baptist Denies Being the Christ
19Now this was John's testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Christ."PVB dont be an idiot, Rome is a clear enemy of the Torah and the NT is black propaganda against the Jews. Christianity is simply Roman paganism with Jewish roots. These roots gave the pagan myths of christianity some credibility.
-
Peace PVB...
-Rami you do not understand Christianity. We have the 10 Commandments- that is our LAW. Jesus was and is the Gospel, a living example of GOD's WORD.
-I believe that Muslims have missed the true interpretation of the meaning of this verse- Jesus is the living WORD of GOD. Jesus is the Messiah. Is any other prophet in the Quran desribed this way? Please list verses. Thanks.You see to be full of LOLsss ;D
I have a question for you... How much logic are there in your statement?
You are advocating Jesus is THE WORD OF GOD... true right? I have quoted only 2 of your statements, it will be pain to quote them all.
You are saying Jesus is THE WORD and not 'THE WORDS' of GOD....
So since its only a single WORD, as it is in singular form all the time, so can you please enlighten us and inform us which word is it?
AS IN THE QURAN, you will not find these logical failures,
When the Angels said they brought A WORD from GOD... Since WORD is in singular, it means only 1 word and it was only one word they brought... the word was 'BE' ...
This is logic, it would not be clear for us if the angels said they brought WORDS from GOD.. We would have fight till the end of the times to find which words the angels brought...
May God guide us all...
Peace
-
Why are you talking about Rome?
WORD of GOD - Just as you say the word of Allah is the Quran- so which word in the Quran do you mean?
I find it interesting that all of you are ignoring this Holy Scripture.
Matthew 22
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."You can call it what you want but this is the command from Jesus and what Christians have been doing -
Matthew 28
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." -
Peace to all,
pvb , it is the christians that are ignoring the scripture, mathew 22 is very simple yet you stray from it, jesus says to WORSHIP THE ONE GOD, not to worship jesus or a trinity, jesus was a muslim, he worshipped only God and in mathew 28 you forget, jesus was only given authority while he was on earth to teach and do miracles, remember the story where they lowered the sick man threw thr roof of a house that jesus was in , and when he healed the man the pharisees began to talk behind his back saying Jesus thinks he is God, then jesus replies to them, it is Evil for you to say such things that he is God? So why do you?
Kurt
-
Peace PVB
You definitely evaded my question and did not give me an answer....
Who said the Quran is the Word of GOD... Did I say it? Because I do not remember where... can you quote please... Because, for me, I always say the Quran CONTAINS the WORDS of GOD... I always say WORDS.... not word....
You said many times Jesus is the WORD of GOD... So enlighten us which word it is please...
Regards
-
LOL!! Most Muslims use that term, LOL!! Too funny, search for Quran word of Allah.
All of GOD's Holy WORD.
You missed this part of Matthew 28, Jesus didn't tell them not to worship him
Matthew 28
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Matthew 22
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42"What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?"
"The son of David," they replied.
43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
44" 'The Lord said to my Lord
"Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet." ' 45If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?" 46No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions. -
Jesus and Esa are two different people; Allah says one was likened to Esa that was crucified; Allah did not name the person but the christians give the name of the crucified as Jesus. Esa was neither crucified on the cross nor was he killed. Jesus was crucified on the cross and killed.
-
well technically, jesus died before the crucifixion, not even like died god says god raised jesus to him, his spirit or soul, was taken out of his body before any haram can be done on him, his body was a living machine but with no soul or spirit and that why god says shubiha lahom, it was made to look like they killed him but infact they only crucified the body....... so no they did not kill him,but they did crucify the body
peace all
you said "his body was a living machine but with no soul or spirit".
Did God not say that the soul is taken at the moment of death?
Is there really even an iota of evidence that a person is already dead (i.e. soul is taken) & yet is able to plead, grimace with pain, walk, carry objects, fall down, stand up, sweat, rise up, express resignation, drink, etc.
we need proofs.
may God increase our knowledge.
salamun alaykum all.
ramon O0 jedi
-
Jesus and Esa are two different people; Allah says one was likened to Esa that was crucified; Allah did not name the person but the christians give the name of the crucified as Jesus. Esa was neither crucified on the cross nor was he killed. Jesus was crucified on the cross and killed.
any proof
-
Hello,
In the Quran, we read that the jews claimed having killed Jesus, while, in christian history, Jesus is said to have been killed by the romans.
Has anyone addressed this issue ?According to Michel Coquet, many things we think we know about Jesus are false.
In his thesis, he claims- that the real Jesus was born 105 years BCE, that he was a "master of justice" of the essenian sect, the Jehoshuah of the talmud, and a reformer,
- that the Jesus the christians made the son of God is the zealot Jesus Barrabas,
- and that the christian historical accounts have been rewritten by Eusebius of Caesarea.
So, there would have been 2 Jesus, the one mentionned in the Talmud (and in The Quran), and the one of the christian tradition.
Michel Coquet relies on historical documents, like essenian manuscripts that have been found in the dead sea, the talmud, manichean and druzist manuscripts, etc...
He also found in the essenian scrolls that the essenian Jesus was betrayed, condemned to death, and that he survived (around -64 BCE).More reading
http//www.laprocure.com/livres/michel-coquet/la-vie-jesus-demystifiee-pour-une-naissance-jesus-l-105-avant-notre-ere_9782914606066.html
http//www.laprocure.com/livres/michel-coquet/jesus-veritable-histoire_9782753803213.html
http//books.google.fr/books?id=yBxEz6gqTZAC&dq=The+Secret+Life+of+Jesus+the+Essene
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealotry
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius_of_Caesarea
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls
http//www.essene.com/Yeshua/yehoshua.htm
http//www.onpedia.com/encyclopedia/Yeshu
http//paganizingfaithofyeshua.netfirms.com/essenes_and_their_influence_behind_the_new_testament.htm
http//www.lightlink.com/archive/ivy/iv-05-06.txt -
peace all
you said "his body was a living machine but with no soul or spirit".
Did God not say that the soul is taken at the moment of death?
Is there really even an iota of evidence that a person is already dead (i.e. soul is taken) & yet is able to plead, grimace with pain, walk, carry objects, fall down, stand up, sweat, rise up, express resignation, drink, etc.
we need proofs.
may God increase our knowledge.
salamun alaykum all.
ramon O0 jedi
i hope this will answer some questions, as i dont know much about the gospel myself, but you can verify
http//www.submission.org/quran/app22.html
-
"Jesus and Esa are two different people; Allah says one was likened to Esa that was crucified; Allah did not name the person but the christians give the name of the crucified as Jesus. Esa was neither crucified on the cross nor was he killed. Jesus was crucified on the cross and killed."
Please list references for this information- Thanks.
bar abbas - "means son of the father". How ironic that the true SON of GOD would not be chosen over the criminal.
anna - The page you listed is explaining how GOD the Father and GOD the Son work in UNITY.
You must read the Gospel for yourself and in context!
LOL!! anna that page is talking about artifical means of keeping the body alive. There is no proof as to when the soul left the body of Mr. Shroeder.
http//www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/may/08052709.html
Woman awakens after being brain dead.
-
"Jesus and Esa are two different people; Allah says one was likened to Esa that was crucified; Allah did not name the person but the christians give the name of the crucified as Jesus. Esa was neither crucified on the cross nor was he killed. Jesus was crucified on the cross and killed."
Please list references for this information- Thanks.
bar abbas - "means son of the father". How ironic that the true SON of GOD would not be chosen over the criminal.
anna - The page you listed is explaining how GOD the Father and GOD the Son work in UNITY.
You must read the Gospel for yourself and in context!
LOL!! anna that page is talking about artifical means of keeping the body alive. There is no proof as to when the soul left the body of Mr. Shroeder.
http//www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/may/08052709.html
Woman awakens after being brain dead.
Is this possible to crucify God & i take petty on such poor god who cannot save himself from his creatures. '(
-
Peace all,
It could be that Jesus died before being nailed on the cross so they were actually crucifying a corpse then afterward God raised his body to Himself. If you think raising the body is impossible, what do you think of dinner coming from heaven D. It can go both ways. Anyway, crucified or not, the idea that Jesus died for our sins is actually a blasphemy in disguise. Christianity says that God gave His only Son (analogous to Abraham giving Isaac) to be crucified for the original sin. Now where is the blashphemy? Ask yourself
Q.Who gave the offering?
A.God.
Q.Whose sins is atoned when an offering is made?
A.The one offering.Peace,
Rami
-
Peace Rami,
Q.Who gave the offering?
A.God.
Q.Whose sins is atoned when an offering is made?
A.The one offering.Exactly. This is the exact same point I made in another thread... Even if it was referring to the Jews themselves, you have to consider this when it comes to sacrificial offerings. The sacrifice itself didn't atone for the sins of the people; it was Allah who forgave them. He forgave them based on their repentance, and the sacrifice was a symbol of their repentance. So, this means that the Jews had to willingly sacrifice their offering on the basis of their sincere repentance in order for God to forgive them... Now, according to the Christian story of Jesus, the Jews viewed Jesus as an evil blasphemer. So, they weren't sacrificing Jesus on the basis of requesting forgiveness from Allah. Neither were the Romans. So, how was Jesus sacrificed? It sounds like, according to the Christian interpretation, he was simply crucified and killed, not sacrificed.
Also, according to Ezekial 1819, 20, a man can't die for the sins of his father (or fathers). Since Jesus consistently calls himself the "son of man", then he can't die for the sins of men. This same Biblical book further explains this, reiterating this in verses 25-29. They say
"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear, O house of Israel Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life. Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die. Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Are my ways unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?" (Ezekial 1825-29)
So, if Christians conclude that Jesus, a righteous man, died for the sins of wicked humans, this is concluding that God is unjust, which is a contradiction of their scripture. Based on the Bible itself, there is no way that Jesus died for the sins of humanity; in fact, he didn't even die for the sins of one person. This is, according to God's unchanging law, unscriptural and blasphemous.
Peace,
Ahmad
-
the idea that Jesus died for our sins is actually a blasphemy in disguise.
100% agreed.
This belief has the consequence that a Christian can sin as much as he wants, since Jesus has died for his sins. So, just baptize yourself, and you are guaranteed to be saved.
However, I think the Christians mentioned in the Quran did not believe in that serious heresy. I think it has been added later in the Christian dogmas.
There are similar things in corrupted Islam. For example, the idea that making the hajj will cleanse you of all your sins, or the idea that doing the salaat 5 times a day (plus the other pillars) is enough to save you. The consequences of these beliefs are that the so called muslims believe they can sin (lying, backbiting, not fulfilling ones promises, etc?) without having to pay for that.
Peace