Pilgrimage Poll
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Peace to all,
I have no specific reason asfandyar, I chose Mecca cause that sounded reasonble to me, and so does jerusalem. I have also thought for awhile that we should just choose our own place for the pilgrimage and then we should all try to make it there, we can fulfill any sense of religious obligation some of us feel we need to , and it would also be a great way for some of us who do attend to meet and discuss, even if we choose a nontraditional place it will still get us Quran aloners some attention, the traditionalist will call us names and say we are kafirs or whatever, but we can say that when Islam is prified of its errors and false traditions we will then turn towards the original mecca.
Kurt
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Peace all,
I voted Jerusalem.
Perhaps we can also have a charity set up as per2196 And complete the Pilgrimage and the visit for God. But, if you are prevented, then make what is affordable of donation, and do not shave your heads until the donation reaches its destination; but whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by fasting or giving a charity or a rite. But if you are able, then whoever continues the visit until the Pilgrimage, then he shall provide what is affordable of donation; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not present at the Sacred Temple. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
Good idea )
Regards
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Peace to all,
Asfandyar, i dont believe anything about a specific place, i said they both sound reasonable, i would be hesitant to goto mecca as a Quran aloner though cause I could be harmed if anyone knew, as far as Jeruselam, hey that sounds good too, I know the Quran does mention a specific place but im not expert enough in arabic or Islamic history to tell you where that means, im sure God will accept our pilgrimage anywhere we go and meet as long as we do the good deeds also as Aalmakto pointed out. If we decide that its Jeruselum then lets do it, where at specifically, and when, and what will we do when we are there?
Kurt
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Peace all,
I should clarify I am not 100% sure about Jerusalem but I am leaning towards it. I have a travel guide to Jerusalem and basically-Everyone must have a passport that is valid for at least six months.
-Europeans, North Americans, Australians and New Zealanders (it is a bit racist) can all enter Israel without a Visa - Please check as I am just typing what I read.
-Most other nations need a visa and must obtain them in advanced from an Israeli consulate in their home country. This visa is usually 3 months but can be extended.
-Note that if you have an Israeli visa in your passport you may be barred from entry into certain Arab Countries notably Syria and Lebanon, but not Egypt or Jordan. You can avoid this by asking at the airport that the visa be stamped on a seperate piece of paper.
-English is very much a second language and all signs are bilingual.
This guide also has information on Airports, transport, Banking/Currency, Communications/Telephones. but it is a bit premature to be discussing this.
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I am for Jerusalem, and obvioulsy, I am for a physical pilgrimage to be held as per the Quranic instructions
for a few days.I too am for a physical pilgrimage. However, I believe that every year, within the restricted months, mankind (not just Muslims) must get together for debate and discussion. I believe that those who are Muslim must also perform physical pilgrimage to Bakkah - Jerusalem and fulfill the duties set out in the Qur'an (Commemorating Allah, and to peform an animal sacrifice so to thank Allah for His blessings and to feed the hungry and the poor).
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Peace youll,
I belive Mecca, Im still studyin this thoe.
Ishmael was the son of Abraham by his wifes maid, Hagar. She was driven away from the household when sarahs taunting became unbearable ( Genesis 16 ). God promised that Ishmaels descendants would make a great nation also and Arabs generally trace their ancestry back to him.The Quran states that " Abraham and Ismail built the Kaba ( the house of God in Mecca) as the house of God." This was long before the Temple in Jerusalem was built.
Mr.Wallace
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I for one think the most obvious choice would be Mecca - since that is where Mohammed started out. But since the Saudis are such nit-pickers in terms of who is/is not Muslim - why not Jerusalem? That city is held in high regards. And if Jerusalem is not financially feasable - why not then a pre-arranged place in the vicinity of where the people live. Maybe rent out a famous hall-for-hire, give it ambience of Mecca or Jerusalem, and call it The Reformed Hajj?
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I for one think the most obvious choice would be Mecca - since that is where Mohammed started out. But since the Saudis are such nit-pickers in terms of who is/is not Muslim - why not Jerusalem? That city is held in high regards. And if Jerusalem is not financially feasable - why not then a pre-arranged place in the vicinity of where the people live. Maybe rent out a famous hall-for-hire, give it ambience of Mecca or Jerusalem, and call it The Reformed Hajj?
Now who will vote on God Behalf? &
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peace be upon you,
since Abraham build the Kaaba, and Jerusalem did not exist before Abraham, and there is no Kaaba (Cube) in Jerusalem,
then we must go to Mecca! -
peace be upon you,
The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by GOD. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then GOD is Appreciative, Omniscient.
there is no place called Safa or Marwah in Jerusalem,
you cannot ignore the word of GOD!
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peace be upon you,
You commit no error by seeking provisions from your Lord (through commerce). When you file from `Arafaat, you shall commemorate GOD at the Sacred Location (of Muzdalifah). You shall commemorate Him for guiding you; before this, you had gone astray
there is no Arafaat in Jerusalem
GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid,* to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient
there is no Kaaba in Jerusalem
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Haj or Pilgrimage is the constant visiting of your own house with keenness about the household holding a fast hold on to your God endowed deepest wish and will in the heart with faith and patience i.e., keeping God with you all the time. This view has been revealed to me from chapter 10 87 and the chapter 106, Al Quraish.
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Peace Submitter,
GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid,* to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient
there is no Kaaba in Jerusalem
This is a mistranslation, and many translators have intentionally mistranslated this passage to lead others astray... The Arabic word "kaaba" means ankle, and the passage says that God appointed the "kaabata" (ankles, corners); the word "cube" is a mistranslation. Also, the word "sacred masjid" is incorrect. The words used are "albayta alharaama", meaning literally 'the house of the forbidden'. The word "sanctuary" is not used here either; rather, it implies the word standing (or stance), meaning a position for the people... The next words used are "alshahra alharaama" (the month of the forbidden). What is interesting here is the used of the word "shahr", meaning month (some say it means "full moon", indicating singularity (one month); it's not plural. So, a more correct literal translation would be
God made the ankles the house of the forbidden (or 'the forbidden house', a stance for the people, and the month of the forbidden (or 'the forbidden month' and the guidelines ("alhadya" and the indicators ("alqalaa'-ida" so you know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and God is knowledgeable of all things.
Here's an interesting discussion on this topic
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/kabata-ankles-become-gods-house/Even if you disagree with the concepts relayed in the article, you should at least check it out, and weigh it against your current understanding. For me, the article was an eye-opener...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Submitter,
This is a mistranslation, and many translators have intentionally mistranslated this passage to lead others astray... The Arabic word "kaaba" means ankle, and the passage says that God appointed the "kaabata" (ankles, corners); the word "cube" is a mistranslation. Also, the word "sacred masjid" is incorrect. The words used are "albayta alharaama", meaning literally 'the house of the forbidden'. The word "sanctuary" is not used here either; rather, it implies the word standing (or stance), meaning a position for the people... The next words used are "alshahra alharaama" (the month of the forbidden). What is interesting here is the used of the word "shahr", meaning month (some say it means "full moon", indicating singularity (one month); it's not plural. So, a more correct literal translation would be
God made the ankles the house of the forbidden (or 'the forbidden house', a stance for the people, and the month of the forbidden (or 'the forbidden month' and the guidelines ("alhadya" and the indicators ("alqalaa'-ida" so you know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and God is knowledgeable of all things.
I thought kaaba meant house/place/base....?Here's an interesting discussion on this topic
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/kabata-ankles-become-gods-house/Even if you disagree with the concepts relayed in the article, you should at least check it out, and weigh it against your current understanding. For me, the article was an eye-opener...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Wakas,
Re 597
I recommend the following thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9837.0I looked through the topic you posted, but it contains the same inconsistencies as in this thread. None of the Quranic translators have translated the common Arabic word "kaaba" (in this case kaabata), which literally means "ankles". It doesn't have any references to a stone cube or anything like this. For the passage to mention the "kaabata" (ankles) alongside the concept of standing (or a stance), it can't be coincidental. The ankles do, in fact, play a major role in standing and balancing the body... What's your take on the translators rendering the word "kaaba" as a stone cube?
Peace,
Ahmad
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peace,
Peace Wakas,
I looked through the topic you posted, but it contains the same inconsistencies as in this thread. None of the Quranic translators have translated the common Arabic word "kaaba" (in this case kaabata), which literally means "ankles". It doesn't have any references to a stone cube or anything like this. For the passage to mention the "kaabata" (ankles) alongside the concept of standing (or a stance), it can't be coincidental. The ankles do, in fact, play a major role in standing and balancing the body... What's your take on the translators rendering the word "kaaba" as a stone cube?
First of all, when I post a link to a thread, if I do not provide a comment along with the link, then it is for background reading. For example, I did not say "this link will clear up the inconsistancies brought up" or such like. I am simply providing extra information for consideration.
As far as my Quran studies go, there is no evidence for "kaaba" to mean a stone cube. The key point I was trying to highlight in the thread I referenced was the use of "qiyaman". A true rendering of this word and 597 completely destroys the traditional understanding and, in my view, that is why there is so much inconsistancy when it comes to translations of this verse.
