What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
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salam fahad. i should point out that a lot of the reason you are asking these questions, is because you have not rid yourself of a few beliefs.
Wa salaam.
That?s just not true.
when you use pagan terms and concepts, then try and understan the quran, you immediately, will fail.
If.
nikah is not marriage. when you make the mistake of saying marriage, then try to understand the quran, you end up in a mess. be very careful about the words you choose.
I was only using the words already chosen by you.
Marriage invloves man giving ajar(recompense/wage) to the woman. Doesn't that make marriage a transaction?
this is one example. i have not seen ajar given in a marriage. nor have i seen ajar made a requirement of a nikah. do you see how i separate the two? marriage may be a transaction depending on the laws of the jurisdiction. nikah is not a transaction, it is the creation of a legal entity.
Please scroll down to the bottom to see ajar made a requirement for nikah.
Marriage also involves the exchange of consideration/ajar for going into a woman. So what is the difference between marriage and prostitution if not polyandry?
if the particular marriage in question involves the exchange of consideration for going into a woman, it is prostitution per se.
Ok, call it whatever you want to. But Kindly provide reference to where the Quran forbids exchange of consideration for going into a woman.
in a nikah there is no exchange of consideration, there may be a mahr, a gift. a gift is not an exchange of consideration. again where are you brining this ajar issue from. i havent seen ajar in the quran as a nikah requirement.
Where does the Quran mention ?mahr? for nikah?
Does the Quran tell us to charge people as criminals for having sex in exchange of money?
you know the answer to this question already.
I know the answer and the answer is no. Quran does not tell us to charge people as criminals for having sex in exchange of money.
however, zina, prostitution, and the parties to zina, the zani and zanit, are condemned as engaging in fawahish, and there are tahrim, prohibitions, on whom they can nikah. if your defintion of those who violate the tahrim, things classified as haram, makes sin approximately equal to the term crime, then yes they are criminals.
Where does the Quran define az-zina as sex for consideration?
Kalleela?
"ar rajal kaleela min an nisa"... "kalalat wa amrat"
kaleela is a term for which the closest english word is, greater. in other words, rajal kaleela min an nisa, translates approximately as, the guardian is greater than the women. or, the guardian has authority over the women. another use of this is, allah kaleela min al momineen.Is there any verse that says this kaleela thing for men? Or are you confusing it qawwamun in 4/34?
"This is why"? You are implying that everything that goes on in saudi is Quranic.
you must keep your anti saudi prejudices out of the debate.
I don?t have any anti-saudi prejudice nor any reason to have one. Maybe you have a pro-saudi prejudice, maybe also a reason to have one? You are from the Saudi, right?
when you remove your anti saudi prejudices, you will see the first word i used is "this" the term this is a singular word explicitly pointing to the single issue of why some saudi laws refer to the guardian of a woman. i did not use the plural terms, those or these.
Your saying ?this is why? implies that this is the rule in Saudi, that if the Quran says so, the Saudis do so. Whether you say "this is (the reason) why" or "those are (the reasons) why", it doesn't make any difference to what you are implying.
saudi usages, while far from perfect, do have relevance in the debate over the terms. after all mecca and medina are in the kingdom. the form of arabic spoken by the messenger of allah, was in fact hijazi arabic, and hijaz is part of the kingdom. the people of the kingdom who speak hijazi arabic as a mater of course have a beter understanding of the words of the quran, than those who dont speak hijazi arabic. when i see the members of this forum, some of whom use dictionaries and grammar books, mostly with catastrophically bad results, making claims that in all honesty are complete nonsense, you should credit the saudis for much kindness and grace, not jumping down their throat and jusitifiably berating them for the nonsense some of them come up with. then again i have berated some people, it had to be done, what they are claiming is outrageous.
Doesn?t matter whether the words are from hijazi Arabic or dictionary Arabic, they have to be confirmed by the Quranic usage(46/12).
What is so evil about prostitution other than polyandry? Sex for money is surely not evil, because thats what happens in a marriage.
i agree with you that marriage in most cases is sex for money, nikah is not marriage and is not sex for money. i agree that there is little difference between pagan marriages and prostitution. this despite the howls of pseudo offense i am going to hear on the subject. if you believe "sex for money is surely not evil" and this is your practice, then you fall under the tahrim, and could possibly be subject to the punishments, of your statement is construed to be an admission, an admission supersedes the four witness requirement, you would have witnessed yourself.
If only you could show me where sex for money is referred to as az-zina in the Quran.
What is the consequence of sex for ajar?
please give me your defintion of ajar.
The consideration/wage/recompense/reward in exchange of a service rendered is ?ajar?.
then give me an example of the use of the term ajar in the quran.
?Ajar? is the consideration/wage/recompense involved in a "tijaarat" (35/29-30).
then tell me how you connected ajar with nikah.
In context of nikah, 4/24 says ...And permitted for you are all beyond those(forbidden categories of women), that you seek with your amwaal/wealth/money, muhsineen without being musafiheen, therefore those that you have enjoyed with it(i.e. your wealth/money) from them, give them their ujoor/wages as a fareeza...
Alright? Now tell me the consequence of sex for ajar.
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let me give you an example of immediate punishment.
you are admonished right now for attempting to violate the privacy of those in my right hand. dont do it again.Salaam Al Araf.
What makes you think that you can "punish" other people's women as well for disobeying you? i.e. women not related to you. Any reference you can provide for this?
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salam fahad. the word you are referring to ajr, means reward. if allah rewards a momin with jannat this is not a wage. i see where the confusion is coming from, some translations are claiming ajr means wages. no akhi this is where arabic and english depart ways. english has vague usages for the term reward which is causing the confusion.
allah is the teacher.
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salam fahad. with regards to the admonishment. you are mistaken when you claim
you can "punish" other people's women as well for disobeying you
i did not punish for disobeying, that is your mistake. i admonished for ill conduct, completely different issue.
read the verse 434 again. it says al rajal qawamun min al nisaa. it does not say al rajal qawamun min nisaakum.
allah is the teacher.
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salam fahad. with regards to the admonishment. you are mistaken when you claim
i did not punish for disobeying, that is your mistake. i admonished for ill conduct, completely different issue.
read the verse 434 again. it says al rajal qawamun min al nisaa. it does not say al rajal qawamun min nisaakum.
allah is the teacher.
So you are al rajal qawamun min al nisaa and yet a Pakistani woman accused of shooting at U.S. officers extradited to U.S is abused daily. re fhttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596881.0
Beside sitting most of the time on your bum in front of computer in a pagan country either paying no taxes to the pagan country or, if paying taxes then promoting a pagan country and having right hand possessions yet no worry if he cannot manage them. Trying to make laws of the Quran subservient to a rijal; What have you done Mister qawamun? yuck
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Assalaam Alaikum
Did I read this correctly?....from the 'lead' uninformed individual....'paraphrasing' Al-Nisa'a 4.34
"......the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating"
Again, this same individual does NOT have a clear or sincere understanding of the Quran and its language. Obviously this individual is another example of one who is 'posing' as knowledgeable of the language of the Quran, yet is quite uninformed and narrow minded.
Lets consider the language of the Quran regarding Al-Nisa'a 4.34
Takhafoona = If YOU Fear (imperfect, 2nd person, singular)
nushoozahunna fa AAithoohunna = treating someone cruel and UNMANLY
wa = and
ohjuroohunna = Avoid associating or acting irrational
fee = like those/among those
Al-MadajiAAi = A MAN WHO BEATS OR STRIKES PAINFULLY
wa = and
I?DRIBOOHUNNA = AVOID ANY CONFRONTATIONThe ayah is speaking to Men and instructing them NOT to abuse their Women and avoid being among those Males who abuse and oppress Women, Al-MadajiAAi /
These are the character traits of this type of individual, Al-MadajiAAi /
He cause others to suffer or experience pain from his speech, event or affair,
He cause's others to distress their hearts with grief,
He is a MAN WHO BEATS OR STRIKES Women PAINFULLY
He is INSENSITIVE TO THE WOMEN WHO CANNOT ENDURE OR BEAR WHAT DISPLEASES HER OR GRIEVES HER
He is INSENSITIVE TO THE WOMAN WHERE A SMALL WORD PAINS HER
He is INSENSITIVE TO THE WOMAN WHERE SMALL THINGS HURT OR ANNOY HERLanes Lexicon PAGE 2719 ? 2720 Part 7
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salam. mention the khimar, and they reply to their name. mashallah not just one khimar, two.
farida did you think you were insulting me, claiming that the speaker of that verse is identifying himself? in other words because you think i said khimar, therefore i am khimar? shame on you, you insulted allah, the speaker was allah, that is a verse from the quran. if allah is the speaker you are saying that allah is calling himself khimar. you are a complete utter disgrace.
muslimtruthrevealed, all the books you read, did you not read that daraba yudaribu is to beat? either you are lying that you have dictionaries, or you wilfully forge lies against allah and the quran. may allah judge you for what your hands send forward.
allah exposes falsehood.
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So you are al rajal qawamun min al nisaa and yet a Pakistani woman accused of shooting at U.S. officers extradited to U.S is abused daily. re fhttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596881.0
Beside sitting most of the time on your bum in front of computer in a pagan country either paying no taxes to the pagan country or, if paying taxes then promoting a pagan country and having right hand possessions yet no worry if he cannot manage them. Trying to make laws of the Quran subservient to a rijal; What have you done Mister qawamun? yuck
Farida!
sister this is not a sensible attitude towards learning, but a direct invitation for trouble.
siki
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I?DRIBU-HUNNA MEANS TO NEGLECT, IGNORE, AVOID, TURN AWAY FROM STRIFE, DISCORD, ANIMOSITY BETWEEN OR AMONG PEOPLE
Lanes Lexicon PAGE 1779 Left Column & 1780 Middle Column Part 5
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salam muslimthreadrevealed. aauzu billahi min a shaitan ar rajeem. daraba means to beat. that is the root word of the term udrubu hunna, beat them.
from the word which means to strike http//www.tps.edu.ee/nastik/ar-en/index.php?q=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%A9
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000062.pdf third column on the right, last word before the bottom.
beat, struck, smote, hit himaar, jahil, liar and deceiver, forger of lies against allah and the quran. you mislead people with your lies. you have no shame lying and lying and lying. your hands bear witness you add words to the quran. dont ever translate again.
allah exposes falsehood.
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Assalaam Alaikum Bismi'lahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem
I?DRIBU-hunna (Hunna = Feminine Pronoun , Indicative Imperfective , Active Verb , Nominative ) means to neglect, ignore, avoid, turn away from strife, discord, animosity between or among people
Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna/Women), which means that the subject (Hunna/Women) performs the action but does NOT receive it.
Nominative Case the case of a noun or Feminine Pronoun (Hunna/Women) that is functioning as the subject of a clause or sentence.
Lets just say, we all agree with this 'Al Araf' individual who claims the Active Verb 'I?DRIBU'hunna' means 'beat them'
The Nominative Case construct confirms that the Feminine Pronoun 'Hunna' is the Subject of the active verb I?DRIBU.
The Women, as a result, are PERFORMING the 'action' of the active verb I?DRIBU, but do NOT receive the 'action' of the active verb, I?DRIBU.
(For the sake of argument, lets agree with Al Araf, I?DRIBU'hunna means 'beat them'
How is it possible that this 'Al Araf' individual can 'beat' a woman, when the one performing the beating is the Woman? laugh
In addition, (according to the active verb rules) the Women will NOT receive a 'beating' either rotfl
But on this Day THE BELIEVERS WILL LAUGH at the Unbelievers.
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salam muslimthreadrevealed. change your name to majnunliesrevealed. you are majnun, lunatic. there is no other word for you.
read the ayat 434. it says as to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty or ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them. when it says "as to those women.. beat them"
how did your lunatic mind come up with it the other way around? you were warned by many people on this forum, men and women, your grammar analysis is nonsense.
your word understanding is nonsense, your grammar analysis is nonsense, your sentence context analysis is nonsense. i cannot imagine a normal person reads an ayat then turns it upside down. the only kind thing to call you is majnun.
allah is the truth.
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salam muslimthreadrevealed. change your name to majnunliesrevealed. you are majnun, lunatic. there is no other word for you.
read the ayat 434. it says as to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty or ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them. when it says "as to those women.. beat them"
how did your lunatic mind come up with it the other way around? you were warned by many people on this forum, men and women, your grammar analysis is nonsense.
your word understanding is nonsense, your grammar analysis is nonsense, your sentence context analysis is nonsense. i cannot imagine a normal person reads an ayat then turns it upside down. the only kind thing to call you is majnun.
allah is the truth.
You don't beat someone based on fear. Thats speculation and built on an assumption that the person is guilty till proven innocent. Thats against the Koran which always asks for witnesses even if the accusation(not fear but actual accusation) is from a spouse. The other spouse can also swear by oath. The Koran warns against assumptions and accusations not backed by stron witness.
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salam bigmo. when did you change you name to allah, to where you think you make the laws for muslims, and tell us "you dont..."
if allah tells us we should fear, as he has told us, your opinion is irrelevant, not what allah says, and rejected.
allah is the truth.
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salam bigmo. when did you change you name to allah, to where you think you make the laws for muslims, and tell us "you dont..."
if allah tells us we should fear, as he has told us, your opinion is irrelevant, not what allah says, and rejected.
allah is the truth.
Whats wrong with this dude? Why don't you do something like READ the Koran and try to understand what its trying to say like the rest of us. At least you can tell God you tried. Stop relying on others to do the thinking for you and then attack others cause they blew your bubble. This forum is not made for the feint hearted.
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salam siki. of course it means strike. it has always meant strike.
the quran is not a book that suits the whims or fashions of a particular group of people, or the politically correct ideas of a time.
it is of no consequence that there are people who reject what they read in the quran. the loss is theirs.
allah is the truth for all time.
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Assalaam Alaikum Bismi'lahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem
Lets review....
We have a individual who claims he can physically 'beat' and/or 'punish' women....(actually several individuals)
Allah has indicated to us that this type of individual is referred to in the Quran as
Al-MadajiAAi = A Man who beats or strikes Women, and is insensitive to women
Allah has indicated to avoid being among or acting like these particular individuals
/ ohjuroohunna = Avoid associating or acting irrational fee = like those/among those
Al-MadajiAAi = A MAN WHO BEATS OR STRIKES WOMEN PAINFULLY
Since the Al-MadajiAAi and his friends still insist on believing they can 'beat and punish Women.
Lets further review....
I?DRIBU-hunna (I?dribu = Plural Masculine Verb - Hunna = Plural Feminine Pronoun , Indicative Imperfective , Active Verb , Nominative , Imperative ) means to neglect, ignore, avoid, turn away from strife, discord, animosity between or among people
I?DRIBU is Indicative Imperfective and Imperative which means the COMMAND and application of the verb is present and continuous.
Now lets see who is doing the 'beating'?
Rule 1) Nominative Case construct confirms that the Feminine Pronoun 'Hunna' is the Subject of the active verb I?DRIBU.
Result Women are PERFORMING the 'action' of the active verb I?DRIBU, but do NOT receive the 'action' of the active verb, I?DRIBU.
Rule 2) Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna/Women), which means that the subject (Hunna/Women) performs the action but does NOT receive it.
Result No one has been commanded to 'beat' women, the action of the verb is OUTWARD from the Subject, Women, the Subject, Women do NOT receive the action of the verb
It appears that Al-MadajiAAi is 'beating' himself and is taking a 'beating' from Allah.
Allah warns the Al-MadajiAAi ...
Those who DISRESPECT chaste women / yarmoona almuhsanati / , indiscreet but believing, are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter. for them is a grievous Penalty,-
yarmoona (imperfect verb= action in progress, present tense, weak verb, 3rd person, masculine, plural) blame, denigrate, vilify, disrespect;root word Rama to throw, cast, hit by throwing, blame, charge, speak in conjecture
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 223
@Al Araf, excuse me, in light of the Quran and Allah's warning to those who abuse and oppress women, would you like to RECANT (take it back) this statement you made?
""......the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating"
We await your response.....