What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
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salam muslimthreadrevealed. aauzu billahi min a shaitan ar rajeem. daraba means to beat. that is the root word of the term udrubu hunna, beat them.
from the word which means to strike http//www.tps.edu.ee/nastik/ar-en/index.php?q=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%A9
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000062.pdf third column on the right, last word before the bottom.
beat, struck, smote, hit himaar, jahil, liar and deceiver, forger of lies against allah and the quran. you mislead people with your lies. you have no shame lying and lying and lying. your hands bear witness you add words to the quran. dont ever translate again.
allah exposes falsehood.
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Assalaam Alaikum Bismi'lahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem
I?DRIBU-hunna (Hunna = Feminine Pronoun , Indicative Imperfective , Active Verb , Nominative ) means to neglect, ignore, avoid, turn away from strife, discord, animosity between or among people
Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna/Women), which means that the subject (Hunna/Women) performs the action but does NOT receive it.
Nominative Case the case of a noun or Feminine Pronoun (Hunna/Women) that is functioning as the subject of a clause or sentence.
Lets just say, we all agree with this 'Al Araf' individual who claims the Active Verb 'I?DRIBU'hunna' means 'beat them'
The Nominative Case construct confirms that the Feminine Pronoun 'Hunna' is the Subject of the active verb I?DRIBU.
The Women, as a result, are PERFORMING the 'action' of the active verb I?DRIBU, but do NOT receive the 'action' of the active verb, I?DRIBU.
(For the sake of argument, lets agree with Al Araf, I?DRIBU'hunna means 'beat them'
How is it possible that this 'Al Araf' individual can 'beat' a woman, when the one performing the beating is the Woman? laugh
In addition, (according to the active verb rules) the Women will NOT receive a 'beating' either rotfl
But on this Day THE BELIEVERS WILL LAUGH at the Unbelievers.
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salam muslimthreadrevealed. change your name to majnunliesrevealed. you are majnun, lunatic. there is no other word for you.
read the ayat 434. it says as to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty or ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them. when it says "as to those women.. beat them"
how did your lunatic mind come up with it the other way around? you were warned by many people on this forum, men and women, your grammar analysis is nonsense.
your word understanding is nonsense, your grammar analysis is nonsense, your sentence context analysis is nonsense. i cannot imagine a normal person reads an ayat then turns it upside down. the only kind thing to call you is majnun.
allah is the truth.
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salam muslimthreadrevealed. change your name to majnunliesrevealed. you are majnun, lunatic. there is no other word for you.
read the ayat 434. it says as to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty or ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them. when it says "as to those women.. beat them"
how did your lunatic mind come up with it the other way around? you were warned by many people on this forum, men and women, your grammar analysis is nonsense.
your word understanding is nonsense, your grammar analysis is nonsense, your sentence context analysis is nonsense. i cannot imagine a normal person reads an ayat then turns it upside down. the only kind thing to call you is majnun.
allah is the truth.
You don't beat someone based on fear. Thats speculation and built on an assumption that the person is guilty till proven innocent. Thats against the Koran which always asks for witnesses even if the accusation(not fear but actual accusation) is from a spouse. The other spouse can also swear by oath. The Koran warns against assumptions and accusations not backed by stron witness.
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salam bigmo. when did you change you name to allah, to where you think you make the laws for muslims, and tell us "you dont..."
if allah tells us we should fear, as he has told us, your opinion is irrelevant, not what allah says, and rejected.
allah is the truth.
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salam bigmo. when did you change you name to allah, to where you think you make the laws for muslims, and tell us "you dont..."
if allah tells us we should fear, as he has told us, your opinion is irrelevant, not what allah says, and rejected.
allah is the truth.
Whats wrong with this dude? Why don't you do something like READ the Koran and try to understand what its trying to say like the rest of us. At least you can tell God you tried. Stop relying on others to do the thinking for you and then attack others cause they blew your bubble. This forum is not made for the feint hearted.
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salam siki. of course it means strike. it has always meant strike.
the quran is not a book that suits the whims or fashions of a particular group of people, or the politically correct ideas of a time.
it is of no consequence that there are people who reject what they read in the quran. the loss is theirs.
allah is the truth for all time.
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Assalaam Alaikum Bismi'lahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem
Lets review....
We have a individual who claims he can physically 'beat' and/or 'punish' women....(actually several individuals)
Allah has indicated to us that this type of individual is referred to in the Quran as
Al-MadajiAAi = A Man who beats or strikes Women, and is insensitive to women
Allah has indicated to avoid being among or acting like these particular individuals
/ ohjuroohunna = Avoid associating or acting irrational fee = like those/among those
Al-MadajiAAi = A MAN WHO BEATS OR STRIKES WOMEN PAINFULLY
Since the Al-MadajiAAi and his friends still insist on believing they can 'beat and punish Women.
Lets further review....
I?DRIBU-hunna (I?dribu = Plural Masculine Verb - Hunna = Plural Feminine Pronoun , Indicative Imperfective , Active Verb , Nominative , Imperative ) means to neglect, ignore, avoid, turn away from strife, discord, animosity between or among people
I?DRIBU is Indicative Imperfective and Imperative which means the COMMAND and application of the verb is present and continuous.
Now lets see who is doing the 'beating'?
Rule 1) Nominative Case construct confirms that the Feminine Pronoun 'Hunna' is the Subject of the active verb I?DRIBU.
Result Women are PERFORMING the 'action' of the active verb I?DRIBU, but do NOT receive the 'action' of the active verb, I?DRIBU.
Rule 2) Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna/Women), which means that the subject (Hunna/Women) performs the action but does NOT receive it.
Result No one has been commanded to 'beat' women, the action of the verb is OUTWARD from the Subject, Women, the Subject, Women do NOT receive the action of the verb
It appears that Al-MadajiAAi is 'beating' himself and is taking a 'beating' from Allah.
Allah warns the Al-MadajiAAi ...
Those who DISRESPECT chaste women / yarmoona almuhsanati / , indiscreet but believing, are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter. for them is a grievous Penalty,-
yarmoona (imperfect verb= action in progress, present tense, weak verb, 3rd person, masculine, plural) blame, denigrate, vilify, disrespect;root word Rama to throw, cast, hit by throwing, blame, charge, speak in conjecture
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 223
@Al Araf, excuse me, in light of the Quran and Allah's warning to those who abuse and oppress women, would you like to RECANT (take it back) this statement you made?
""......the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating"
We await your response.....
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salam. mention the khimar, and they reply to their name. mashallah not just one khimar, two.
farida did you think you were insulting me, claiming that the speaker of that verse is identifying himself? in other words because you think i said khimar, therefore i am khimar? shame on you, you insulted allah, the speaker was allah, that is a verse from the quran. if allah is the speaker you are saying that allah is calling himself khimar. you are a complete utter disgrace.
allah exposes falsehood.
Indeed Allah exposes falsehood. SubhanAllah for making you to cite the most appropriate verse to describe yourself in response to my question What have you done Mister qawamun
Your posts clearly demonstrated that there is nothing moderate about you. Humbleness has not touched you, with your harsh approach towards women and constant braying about you being a "rijal". You have demonstrated that you are, indeed, nothing but a nuisance like a Khimar
Shame on you to even imagine that I would think you are the speaker of the verse. Void of any grace you don?t need insulting you are being insulted all over.Allah caused you to unwittingly reveal that you are NO ?al rajal qawamun min al nisaa? but, instead an irritating ass for women.
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Farida!
sister this is not a sensible attitude towards learning, but a direct invitation for trouble.
siki
Salaam brother Siki,
you may be the only one learning from him. I prefer to learn from teachers of goodness justice and equity and who read the Qur'an as Allah intended it rather than distort its meaning to suit their interests.
Can you give me one reason for your comment above?I have tried my best to find/fit some meaning other than strike in this verse, but it still comes as the most suitable meaning in context of this verse.
siki
- says as to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty or ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them. A_A adds when it says "as to those women.. beat them"
However this ayah is clearly intended to stop men from losing their self control and beating women outright.
But, as expected, A_A would say there is no harm if a man does not abide by the first two stages instead beating them straight away! He implied in his earlier post that Allah does not say that he has to do all three but can chose the punishment he thinks appropriate. As far as he is concerned a man does not have to be able to maintain a woman nor is he required to help women like Afia siddique, but can admonish them publically and punish women just because, physically, he has the upper hand.
If you are truly interested in learning then look to others; read and research and find out the real causes of domestic violence. You would find that 1- is sudden loss of self control 2- rage and 3- violence. This ayah is designed to stop men from falling prey to provocation.
Finally! It?s one thing to say that you want to be educated by A_A but would you marry off your daughter or your sister or even your enemy to the likes of him?
peace - says as to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty or ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them. A_A adds when it says "as to those women.. beat them"
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@Al Araf, excuse me, in light of the Quran and Allah's warning to those who abuse and oppress women, would you like to RECANT (take it back) this statement you made?
""......the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating"
People are waiting for your response.....
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the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating
the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating
the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating
allah hu akbar
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Assalaam Alaikum Bismi'lahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem
Now that we have exposed Al-MadajiAAi = 'The Woman Beater', A Man who beats or strikes Women, and is insensitive to women
Lets continue with
We have determined thus far...
I?DRIBU-hunna (I?dribu = Plural Masculine - Hunna = Plural Feminine Pronoun , Indicative Imperfective , Active Verb , Nominative , Imperative ) means to neglect, ignore, avoid, turn away from strife, discord, animosity between or among people
Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna/Women), which means that the subject (Hunna/Women) performs the action but does not receive it.
No one is beating women or being commanded to beat women, punish them or reprimand them.
Lets continue with the ayah.....
fa-in = in any case do not
ataAAnakum = TO DEFAME, DISCREDIT, hurt with words, to attack each other, accusation, criticism, defamation
fala tabghoo = do NOT oppress anyone, treat unjustly, act unjustly or insolently
AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha = (Male & Female) Act in accordance with the way and path of Allah -
Salaam brother Siki,
you may be the only one learning from him. I prefer to learn from teachers of goodness justice and equity and who read the Qur'an as Allah intended it rather than distort its meaning to suit their interests.
Can you give me one reason for your comment above?434. says as to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty or ill conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them. A_A adds when it says "as to those women.. beat them.I simply meant that one must show tolerance towards a point of view, specially if it is such , that 90% of the translators agree upon, and if one differs, then one should debate logically rather than just hurl abuse in rage, and push the thread into a nonsense.
Finally! It?s one thing to say that you want to be educated by A_A but would you marry off your daughter or your sister or even your enemy to the likes of him?
peacei shall quote from one of my old replies on this topic,
I am past that stage in my marriage where i require Devinne approval to sort out/beat up my wife, rather at present, am more worried about the future safety of my three beloved daughters.
What we are doing here is not , what our upbringing/sentiments feel, as right, but what God thinks, is most suitable regarding one of its creations. I am bothered about what HE means by "IDRibuhunna" in this particular ayat , and hence it is very important that we analyse its application with absolute neutrality. I would rather annoy all of you! "My dear sisters" rather than "letting go of a "just opinion", and invite his curse/retribution.
I have evaluated this term in this ayah and deliberated all other meanings as a substitute, but i am afraid , striking/hitting still comes out to be at the top. Sisters i understand, and fully appreciate your feelings. But let me remind you that this one is not the only, of its kind. To name a few, "polygyne, inheritance, sex with MMA" etc . I am quite sure if i make a deliberate effort , i will be able to add a significant number to this list.
I have spent a reasonable amount of time in studying this subject, and i promise you that owing to the sensitivity of this issue, i shall carry out further in depth study , and shall get back to you with my opinion. And if, any biases? Remember , i have "Three pieces of my heart" to marry off.
God bless all of us
siki
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Al Araf
salam fahad. with regards to the admonishment. you are mistaken when you claim
i did not punish for disobeying, that is your mistake. i admonished for ill conduct, completely different issue.
read the verse 434 again. it says al rajal qawamun min al nisaa. it does not say al rajal qawamun min nisaakum.
allah is the teacher.
This verse is wrongly written. You can also see how you mislead others who repeated the error in this verse (although this is not an excuse for them).
Correct the verse and apologize for the error.Besides, ignoring my post does not make it disappear. Please respond or you will soon receive a PM
Please write this word in Arabic, because it seems fahad is mixing it with another word. I would have done the same, too, but knowing your ignorance I can guess what word you mean, and you are still wrongly transliterating it. (Maybe it's not even what I am guessing, or maybe it's a word that does not exist in the qur'aan or elsewhere..Who knows
? Your surprises are unlimited). So the only solution to save you from me is to start by writing it in Arabic.Then, before ranting in accusation of those who "do not speak hijazi arabic" or those who "use the dictionaries', and to complete saving yourself, bring all the usages of this word in the qur'aan in their `full context" and prove to the members of this forum that it means "greater'.
This, of course, beside your violation of rule 3
salam muslimthreadrevealed. aauzu billahi min a shaitan ar rajeem. daraba means to beat. that is the root word of the term udrubu hunna, beat them.
from the word which means to strike http//www.tps.edu.ee/nastik/ar-en/index.php?q=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%A9
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000062.pdf third column on the right, last word before the bottom.
beat, struck, smote, hit himaar, jahil, liar and deceiver, forger of lies against allah and the quran. you mislead people with your lies. you have no shame lying and lying and lying. your hands bear witness you add words to the quran. dont ever translate again.
allah exposes falsehood.
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Assalaam Alaikum Bismi'lahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem
Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna/Women), which means that the subject (Hunna/Women) performs the action but does NOT receive it.
Nominative Case the case of a noun or Feminine Pronoun (Hunna/Women) that is functioning as the subject of a clause or sentence.
MTR
I drew your attention more than once to not go into grammatical analysis when it is not needed, and mostly since you do not know even the basic grammar. Pronouns suffixed to verbs are direct objects and are in the accusative not the nominative. This is applicable to spoken and written Arabic and constitute a universal grammar of tis language. Pronouns acting as the subject (doer) of a verb affect its the conjugation and are not affixed to that verb. Discussions of this verse are mainly on the meaning of the verb and there is no disagreement, as far as I know, on what the subject or the object of the verb are.
If you have a reference stating that (hunna) is the subject of the verb, please bring it forth, with the number of page, and if possible, copy and paste this information from the reference.
I will review your other posts that I missed while being away.
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The verse often mentioned by Sunni/Shia sects that they claim justify light beating of a disobedient wife is
?Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband?s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).? Surah Nisa, Chapter 4, Verse 34.
However the envoking of the words "first", "then" and "last" and "lightly" that are in paranthesis are not found in the Arabic original Koran. This is a Sunni/Shia sectarian translation designed to make the verse fit with wife beating although lightly as per the beduin custom. This is because you can not warn or admonish someone and lay hands on them at the same time. So they designed the verse in such a way as to make it appear there are stages and only as a last resort you seek light beating. By light beating it means no scars or bruises must appear.
However lets translate the Koran word by word and see what it really says.
Men are the maintainers of women because God has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and "strike" them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely God is High, Great.
The verse after it say
4.35. If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, God will cause their reconciliation For God hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.
The Koran does not say beat them. It says "Idribuhunna". Which means strike them. Its from the word "daraba". Which means strike. Its translated as beat them since it goes along with sectarian hadiths that justifies beating a woman lightly if she disobeys. Beat or hit is only one possible meaning of the word Dharaba. The hadiths also says the prophet pinched or poked one of his wife. Since Aisha is always reported relating hadiths like bombs falling from a B-52 it had to be her of course. These are sources Muslim sects use to translate the Koran. These hadiths emerged 2 to 3 centuries after the prophet which the sectarian clerics believe were "orally" passed down across 6 or 7 generations. It was compiled by men like Imam Bukhari or Imam Muslim or Tabri etc. between 220 to 350 after the prophet's death.
Anyways when the Koran uses Dharaba , it always explains strike what or how. Let see the Koran
"Seest thou not how God sets (Dharaba) forth a parable? -- A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens". Quran 1424
26.63. Then We told Moses by inspiration "Strike(Idhrib) the sea with thy rod." So it divided, and each separate part became like the huge, firm mass of a mountain.
"O you who believe, if you attack (Darabtum) in the cause of God then make a clear declaration, and do not say to those who greet you with peace 'You are not a believer!' You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God favoured you, so make a clear declaration. God is expert over what you do." (Quran 494)
"So how will it be when the Angels put them to death, striking (Yadriboona) their faces and their backs" (Quran 4727)
"So We sealed (Darabna) upon their ears in the cave for a number of years." (Quran 1811)
"Shall We take-away (Na'drib) the reminder from you, because you are a transgressing people?" (Quran 435)
"Have you not seen how God cites (Daraba) the example of a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and its branches in the sky." (Quran 1424)
"As for the poor who face hardship in the cause of God, and they cannot leave (Darban) the land; the ignorant ones think they are rich from their modesty; you know them by their features, they do not ask the people repeatedly. And what you spend out of goodness, God is fully aware of it." (Quran 2273)
14.25. It brings forth its fruit at all times, by the leave of its Lord. So God sets forth(Yadribu) parables for men, in order that they may receive admonition
43.58. And they say, "Are our gods best, or he?" This they set forth to thee(Dharabuhu) , only by way of disputation yea, they are a contentious people
4.101. When ye travel(Dharabtum) through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.
38.44. "And take in thy hand a little grass, and strike therewith(Fa'adrib) and break not (thy oath)." Truly We found him full of patience and constancy. How excellent in Our service! ever did he turn (to Us)!
So all these verses uses the word Dharaba differently. In fact if you look at all the verses in the Koran that uses the word Dharab, we would find it used for variou meanings
To travel, to get out 3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273
To strike 260,73; 7160; 812; 2077; 2431; 2663; 3793; 474
To beat 850; 4727
To set up 4358; 5713
To give (examples) 1424,45; 1675,76,112; 1832,45; 2435; 3028,58; 3678; 3927,29; 4317; 5921; 6610,11
To take away, to ignore 435
To condemn 261
To seal, to draw over 1811
To cover 2431
To explain 1317
Since Dharaba has different meaning in the Arabic language depending on its context.
The verse only says "strike them". Yet this is insufficient to explain it as beat them, since strike(Dharaba) can mean many thing as we saw already.
The meaning strike them as to hit them or beat them physically over mere suspicion or fear is inconsistent with the Koran. Strike them can mean strike them out of the house or stike them out of your life or whatever.
O you who believe! Avoid much suspicions, indeed some suspicions are sins. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would hate it . And fear God. Verily, God is the One Who accepts repentance, Most Merciful. 49.12
O you who believe! If a rebellious evil person comes to you with a news, verify it, lest you harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful to what you have done. 49.6
So we translate it as it is, and not how the hadiths say it should be, which is
38.34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them , refuse to share their beds and strike them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means For God is Most High.
If we look at the Koran, it mentions the situation when one ACCUSES a woman of ill conduct and even a spouse accuses another of ill conduct. Lets see what it say
24.4. And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after for such men are wicked transgressors;-
24.5. Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
24.6. And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by God that they are solemnly telling the truth;
24.7. And the fifth that they solemnly invoke the curse of God on themselves if they tell a lie.
24.8. But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times By God, that he is telling a lie;
24.9. And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of God on herself if he is telling the truth.
24.10. If it were not for God's grace and mercy on you, and that God is Oft- Returning, full of Wisdom,-
How can then the Koran say to lay hands on someone over a mere fear or suspicion when it does not even allow it over an accusation backed by the witness of 3 people and even the witness of a spouse if the other spouse also swears by oath that its not true? So the sectarian hadith inspired translation contradicts the Koran.
At least thats how I see it.
"O you mankind! We have created you from a single pair of male and female and made you into nations and tribes so that you know each other. Verily the most honored in the sight of God is the one who is most righteous" (4913).
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To travel, to get out 3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273
To strike 260,73; 7160; 812; 2077; 2431; 2663; 3793; 474
To beat 850; 4727
To set up 4358; 5713
To give (examples) 1424,45; 1675,76,112; 1832,45; 2435; 3028,58; 3678; 3927,29; 4317; 5921; 6610,11
To take away, to ignore 435
To condemn 261
To seal, to draw over 1811
To cover 2431
To explain 1317
Since Dharaba has different meaning in the Arabic language depending on its context.
so, brother! which one do you think fits the most here? depending upon the context.
siki
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This is a very good post Bigmo (although I would not say men are maintainers of women) because it sounds like a statement and it is not true that men are maintainers of women everywhere at all times and eras. Moreover, why would there b e a description of the (maintained)? Do we have in the qur'aan any description of piety of people we give charity to? I believe that rijaal include women and nisaa' include men. From this pool God is giving examples of two women who are "rijaal".
Another point is the translation of 494, mainly "do not say to those who greet you with peace" of " ". To greet is " " not "", and from it we say " " not " ". The translation should be "do not say to those who throw peace to you, accorded you peace..."