What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
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Farida.
Salam. Lot of pent up anger, and I do understand why, but sister this world would never be a perfect one, i used to have same emotions in my younger days, but i guess i learnt to handle it some what.
Imperfections of this world has nothing to do with commandments of God.
siki
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@JM, they have the evidence. 'Subject Pronoun' (i.e. Isolated Pronouns) , are used only for SUBJECT functions and 'Suffix Pronouns' are attached at the end of their referent (verb or noun), are TWO distinct grammatical constructs, used for completely different sentence constructs.
Example Al-Nisa'a 4.34
ALL 'Subject Pronoun' (i.e. Isolated Pronouns) , used only for SUBJECT functions NOT 'Suffix Pronouns', which CANNOT be used to specify Subject in a Case Construct.
'Subject Pronoun' (i.e. Isolated Pronouns) are NOT suffixes (an affix which is placed at the end of a word).
Thanks Anyway
As far as i know, hunna, hu, kum, and all pronouns like that cannot be used as subject pronouns.
Please provide a proof from a grammar book that they can.Thanks & peace.
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As far as i know, hunna, hu, kum, and all pronouns like that cannot be used as subject pronouns.
Please provide a proof from a grammar book that they can.Thanks & peace.
Well.... you've learned something new....
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Farida.
Salam. Lot of pent up anger, and I do understand why, but sister this world would never be a perfect one, i used to have same emotions in my younger days, but i guess i learnt to handle it some what.
Imperfections of this world has nothing to do with commandments of God.
siki
Salaam brother Siki
I am sorry brother this is a lame excuse, certainly not suited to the one suppose to have the authority of the foot. You can say there is lot of anger in me and most likely I am older than you and I have refused to conform to what others call one "wisdom with time".
I am certainly right to be angry as I don't qualify to be a rijaal and those who should have been rijaals are nothing but lame ducks. This world will never be perfect, but Allah asked humankind, men and women to accept the trust 3372 We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the MOUNTAINs; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof but man undertook it;- He was indeed unjust and foolish;- And from among those humans Allah further selected rijaal to be qwamoon over nisa. Now tell me, what is that trust? Is it to beat women and to go around shouting I am rijall I am greater than nisa?
Those called rijaal were given a degree of advantage over nisah, but this advantage is not a reward for being born of a certain sex; it comes with the duties of a covenant. These are especially endowed individuals with a specific responsibility for the weak in any given society. Now work it out, what was the covenent, for the fulfilment of which, the rijaal were given an afzal status and what are the qualifications that make up a rijaal?
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Well.... you've learned something new....
Sorry, I have been confuse, and the question I was asking you was not relevant.
Of course hunna can be a subject pronoun.Do you really mean that, in adribuhunna, hunna is the subject (and not the object) ?
If it is the case, how would it be translated ? By "they strike/leave" instead of by "strike/leave them" ?Peace
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Salaam
3161 No prophet could (ever) be false to his TRUST. If any person is so false, He shall, on the Day of Judgment, restore what he misappropriated; then shall every soul receive its due,- whatever it earned,- and none shall be dealt with unjustly.
peace -
Sorry, I have been confuse, and the question I was asking you was not relevant.
Of course hunna can be a subject pronoun.Do you really mean that, in adribuhunna, hunna is the subject (and not the object) ?
If it is the case, how would it be translated ? By "they strike/leave" instead of by "strike/leave them" ?Peace
Assalaam Alaikum @JM
I?DRIBU is an Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna), which means that the subject (Hunna) performs the action but does not receive it.
Hunna is Subject Pronoun or 'Isolated Pronoun', which are ONLY for SUBJECT functions
Action is directed outward (away) from the subject....avoidance
Subject (Hunna) performs the action...turning away from strife, arguing, discord
Subject does not receive the action...No beating is occurringI?DRIBU-hunna (I?dribu = Plural Masculine - Hunna = Plural Feminine Pronoun , Indicative Imperfective , Active Verb , Nominative , Imperative ) means to neglect, ignore, avoid, turn away from strife, discord, animosity between or among people
Lanes Lexicon PAGE 1779 Left Column & 1780 Middle Column Part 5
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Salaam
969 Some of those before you were stronger than you, and possessed more money and children. They became preoccupied with their material possessions. Similarly, you have become preoccupied with your material possessions, just like those before you have become preoccupied. You have become totally heedless, just as they were heedless. Such are the people who nullify their works, both in this world and in the Hereafter; they are the losers.4105 Surely We have revealed the Book to you with the truth that you may judge between people by means of that which Allah has taught you; and be not an advocate on behalf of the treacherous-107 And do not argue on behalf of those who betray themselves. God does not like those who are betrayers, sinners
God bless those who strive to honor their trust..
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Please provide evidence from a grammar book.
In wright (vol 1, $185), it is written that the verbal suffixes express the accusative.Peace
This is correct. Wen "hunna" is suffixed to a verb as the case of (idribuhunna), it has to be in the accsative, direct object. It jus
Assalaam Alaikum @JM
IDRIBU is an Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna), which means that the subject (Hunna) performs the action but does not receive it.
Hunna is Subject Pronoun or 'Isolated Pronoun', which are ONLY for SUBJECT functions
How is ( Hunna) an 'Isolated Pronoun' when it's clear that it's suffixed to the verb "adribu"?
What person is the verb "adribu" conjugated to? (for example second person singular feminine...)? -
Assalaam Alaikum @Samia & JM
Samia's statement "How on earth can "hunna" be a "mubtada' initial noun" when it's suffixed to a verb? And you changed your mind about it being the subject/doer?
4- Frankly speaking, I was never taught this, nor have I read such an expression in grammar"JM's request "As far as i know, hunna, hu, kum, and all pronouns like that cannot be used as subject pronouns. Please provide a proof from a grammar book that they can."
Confirmation that Hunna is a Subject in the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
Reference ?A Dictionary of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran? by Tantawi Sura An-Nisa 434 page 105
I?DRIBU is an Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna), which means that the subject (Hunna) performs the action but does not receive it.
Hunna is Subject Pronoun or 'Isolated Pronoun', which are ONLY for SUBJECT functions
Action is directed outward (away) from the subject....avoidance
Subject (Hunna) performs the action...turning away from strife, arguing, discord
Subject does not receive the action...No beating is occurringI?DRIBU-hunna (I?dribu = Plural Masculine - Hunna = Plural Feminine Pronoun , Indicative Imperfective , Active Verb , Nominative , Imperative ) means to neglect, ignore, avoid, turn away from strife, discord, animosity between or among people
Lanes Lexicon PAGE 1779 Left Column & 1780 Middle Column Part 5
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This is correct. Wen "hunna" is suffixed to a verb as the case of (idribuhunna), it has to be in the accsative, direct object. It jus
How is ( Hunna) an 'Isolated Pronoun' when it's clear that it's suffixed to the verb "adribu"?
What person is the verb "adribu" conjugated to? (for example second person singular feminine...)?Samia, it's NOT suffixed or affixed to any word. Subject Pronoun means 'isolated', that's clear.
Confirmation that Hunna is a Subject in the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
Reference ?A Dictionary of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran? by Tantawi Sura An-Nisa 434 page 105
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Samia, it's NOT suffixed or affixed to any word. Subject Pronoun means 'isolated', that's clear.
Confirmation that Hunna is a Subject in the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
Reference ?A Dictionary of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran? by Tantawi Sura An-Nisa 434 page 105
Would you please answer the other question bout the conjugation of the verb "adribu"?
Also, give example of "hunna" when it is suffixed ( ل.
Please copy and paste from the reference you are giving. Show that the "Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Qur'an" by Tantawi refers specifically to this case; or at least what case it was talking about.Just because the in is not physically connected to the word before it, this does not mean it is not suffixed to it. The absence of the physial connection (as in )is simply because the letters preceding (ن in the examples you gave are letters that do not connect to the letter that follows ( )
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Would you please answer the other question bout the conjugation of the verb "adribu"?
Also, give example of "hunna" when it is suffixed ( ل.
Please copy and paste from the reference you are giving. Show that the "Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Qur'an" by Tantawi refers specifically to this case; or at least what case it was talking about.Just because the in is not physically connected to the word before it, this does not mean it is not suffixed to it. The absence of the physial connection (as in )is simply because the letters preceding (ن in the examples you gave are letters that do not connect to the letter that follows ( )
Assalaam Alaikum @Samia
Again, as I stated earlier, Im sorry, Im not going to do homework for you. I have presented substantial evidence to confirm and support the position and reflection of 'Hunna' as a Subject Pronoun, 'isolated' pronoun in Sura An-Nisa 434.
You are free to accept the evidence or bring evidence to suggest Hunna is NOT an 'isolated' pronoun, or just reject it all together.
I will accept whatever position you choose.
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Assalaam Alaikum @Samia
Again, as I stated earlier, Im sorry, Im not going to do homework for you. I have presented substantial evidence to confirm and support the position and reflection of 'Hunna' as a Subject Pronoun, 'isolated' pronoun in Sura An-Nisa 434.
You are free to accept the evidence or bring evidence to suggest Hunna is NOT an 'isolated' pronoun, or just reject it all together.
I will accept whatever position you choose.
First of all, you have to understand that I am not seeking explanation of grmmar from you. I am trying to verify the authenticity of your reference, because I cannot imagine that a book on grammatical anlysis of the quran would discuss whether "hunna" in "adribuhunna" is subject or object.
What languge is your reference? Is it in English or in Arabic? If it's in Arabic, please paste your evidence in Arabic.
Who is the author? Is it Tantawy or he is just prefacing it? -
salam fahad. the word you are referring to ajr, means reward.
Wa salaam.
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Ajr is better understood as wage, especially when linked with a tijaarat and amwaal. I also showed you how nikah is linked with ajar and amwaal which proves that it is indeed a transaction. You did not tell me what you think about that.
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Also look at 28/25-26. A crude translation
28/25 Therefore one of the two women came to him, walking shyly. She said, `My father invites you li yaJZiYa ka AJRa/to reward you a wage (for)what you watered for us?.
Here we can see that JZY is already used for ?reward? before mentioning AJR. Therefore AJR cannot mean reward.
28/26 One of the two women said, `O my father, asTaJiR hu/hire him; for the best man that asTaJaRta/you can hire is the one who is strong and trustworthy.'
Again, as in 35/29-30, the ajar in 28/25 is linked with the tijaarat in 28/26. The woman asked her father to hire him i.e. to transact with him, to engage him on wages. This gives us the meaning of ajar.
if allah rewards a momin with jannat this is not a wage.
Why not? A momin does not serve Allah for free. He expects to be rewarded with a wage in exchange of his services.
i see where the confusion is coming from, some translations are claiming ajr means wages. no akhi this is where arabic and english depart ways. english has vague usages for the term reward which is causing the confusion.
Bro, I did not rely on translations for this, I confirmed the Quranic usage. Verse 28/25 makes ?reward? distinct from ?wage?.
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http//img301.imageshack.us/img301/5464/grammaticalbooknr0.th.jpg
Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran (Arabic) by Grand Mufti of Egypt, Prof. Dr. Muhammed Sayed Tantawi Reviewed by Mohammed Fahim Abou 'Oubayya
http//www.alhikmabookstore.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=0&sobi2Id=472&Itemid=53
@Samia, You are free to contact the publishers of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran by Dr. Tantawi and express your concern regarding the Subject Pronoun analysis and reference of the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
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Dear Fahad
28-25,26 is an interesting find, hence ajar as wage makes Nikah a very interesting contract.
So, we hire women for services, like sex initially, then for child bearing and for managing house hold and children etc,so basically the house/home belongs to the men and his children, and these women if don't behave or demonstrate ill conduct, they are moved out, or exchanged.
siki
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Dear Fahad
28-25,26 is an interesting find, hence ajar as wage makes Nikah a very interesting contract.
So, we hire women for services, like sex initially, then for child bearing and for managing house hold and children etc,so basically the house/home belongs to the men and his children,
Dear Siki,
Women and children both inherit from the man, you know, not just the children.
and these women if don't behave or demonstrate ill conduct, they are moved out, or exchanged.
Let's be careful about that, unless they come with fahisha mubayyina(4/19, 65/1).
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salam fahad. with regards to the admonishment. you are mistaken when you claim
you can "punish" other people's women as well for disobeying you
i did not punish for disobeying, that is your mistake. i admonished for ill conduct, completely different issue.
I did not say you punished, I said what makes you think you CAN.
read the verse 434 again. it says al rajal qawamun min al nisaa. it does not say al rajal qawamun min nisaakum.
allah is the teacher.
Read carefully, it is talking about women one shares his beds with.
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http//img301.imageshack.us/img301/5464/grammaticalbooknr0.th.jpg
Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran (Arabic) by Grand Mufti of Egypt, Prof. Dr. Muhammed Sayed Tantawi Reviewed by Mohammed Fahim Abou 'Oubayya
http//www.alhikmabookstore.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=0&sobi2Id=472&Itemid=53
The title of the book is "A Dictionary Of Grammatical Analysis Of The Holy Qur-'an" (you have omitted "A Dictionary Of ".
And Muhammad Sayed Tantawi has only written the preface.Anyway, could you post a scan of the page of the book that backs your claim ?
It would be very helpful.Peace