So called 'Royal We' in the Quran
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Peace all,
Allah is in the third person in the Quran.. He is the subject being talked about. He is 'He'
The narrator is an 'I' who is part of a 'We' who is not Allah. 2138 'and We are servents to Him' ..
I believe this is the basis to carry this debate forward...
hmm
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salam neilmaybanks. you have pointed out a valid issue in the quran. the issue is, who are the speakers in the quran?
i see you trying to comprehend the issue. let me assist you. there are three speakers.
the first speaker is allah, and he identifies himself with the words, we, and, us.
the second speaker, is not named, and identifies himself by referring to allah in the third person, as in, and your lord... the three possibilities that have been advanced for the identity of this person is, the angel gibreel 297, the ruh al quddus 16102, the mutaa thuma ameen 8121, or a combination of the angel gibreel, the ruh al quddus, and the mutaa thuma ameen.
the third speaker is the individual who statements are narrated, for example when the quran narrates the pleading of the old man to the pharoah.
allah is the best of those who teach.
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Peace Neil,
According to linguists Arabic and Hebrew never had a royal we... it has been introduced as an explanation after Quran was written.
What are we to make of the 'royal we' then... confused
There was never a "Royal We" in any of the Semitic languages. This is a concept that was later developed, and it was promoted by the Greeks and Romans. When the Qur'an uses the term "we" to describe the scriptural beings, it is talking about Allah and the angels, most likely the angel Jibreel who relayed the message to Muhammad. This is evident by the Qur'anic emphasis on Allah speaking to the people through barriers (4251). I'm not trying to sound like a promoter or spokesman for Rashad Khalifa, but he does have a very interesting view on this matter, and I think you should check it out.
http//www.submission.org/quran/app10.html
Peace,
Ahmad
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salam pvb. the bible is a completely diferent issue. the bible was created by the bishops in nicea. allah had nothing to do with its creation. there are parts of the bible, that was revealed by allah. the torah and the injeel.
there are sections of the old testament, the torah, that is the revealed word of allah, and there are passages in the new testament, that are the revealed word of allah through the messenger isa. the rest of the bible is the creation of human beings, the talmud is man made, the black letter sections of the new testament are man made.
you must keep in mind, the names, old testament, new testament, the word testament is similar to the modern legal document called a statement. these testaments, are statements of individuals, like matthew, mark, luke, and john. they wrote statements of what they saw and heard. if you look closely at their statement, you will see the hebrew form of statement for example zacaharias begat mary etc, and you will see the roman form of statement these things i witnessed in gallilee, for example. the roman and hebrew legal systems each had their own format of statement, and you can see it in the gospels.
allah is the best of those who teach.
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LOL!! We know that the Gospels existed before the Epistles - The written Gospel existed during Paul's time, he references it.
Corinthians 15
The Resurrection of Christ
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,Paul had witnesses that he was chosen to spread the Gospel- Did Mohammad?
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3875 He said, "O Satan, what prevented you from submitting to what I have created by My hands? Are you too arrogant? Or are you one of those exalted?"
711 We created you, We shaped you, and then We said to the angels "Submit to Adam;" so they submitted except for Satan, he was not of those who submitted.
238 We said, "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."
I humbly believe that the above verses make it clear that the god refers to Itself in the first person singular and the first person plural. The following verses indicate that the god also speaks of Itself in the third person singular
223 If you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
2455 God promises those among you who acknowledge and do good works, that He will make them successors on earth, as He made successors of those before them, He will enable for them their system which He has approved for them, and He will substitute security for them in place of fear, that they serve Me and do not associate anything with Me. As for those who reject after that, they are the transgressors.
Perhaps Arabic doesn't really have a royal we in it, but does that matter? The Arabic of the great reading is said to defy the rules of Arabic grammar anyway as it's an informal form of Arabic and not Classical Arabic.