Verses on Homosexuality
-
A 4000 sample size is nothing if your data is biased and methodology, flawed. Cameron has demonstrated time and time again his dubious methods and 'findings', the scientific community doesn't take him seriously and only the conservatives seem to keep on using his 'studies'. Oh wait, even some of them are deserting him.
The American Psychological Association and the Nebraska Psychological Association disassociate themselves from him. So he calls himself a sociologist, the American Sociological Association condemns his research and states that he is not a sociologist. Then he claims that he presented a particular paper at the Eastern Psychological Association, they disputed that, saying he presented something else. Most of his papers were published by a vanity press and the rest are bottom-of-the-rung journals. When his findings are questioned, he responds in an unprofessional manner. Yep, this is a man we should be believing.
See, my bullshit detector rings too. You don't believe the literature on the capabilities of homosexual parenting citing small sample size as proof, fine I accept that. However, you choose to present the findings of an unreliable 'scientist' whose published articles are in crackpot journals as your evidence, which isn't any better. You're comparing the supposedly large sample sized study of a pseudo-scientist who is published by vanity journals and helms a tiny think-tank that has little funding, with the findings (albeit with smaller sample size) accepted by an established organisation with hundreds of thousands of members under them with funding in the millions. You seem to be a Paul Cameron supporter which means this'll never end, I won't be responding to you any further.
-
Scrotu
My friend. Despite how you want to package homosexuality, it is not normal or natural and never will be and will never be compatible with Islam. The ayats in the Qur'an make it very clear on what is permissable and non permissable for Muslims.
55 (Asad) Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, and your food is lawful to them. And , in wedlock, women from among those who believe , and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. But as for him who rejects belief - in vain will be all his works for in the life to come he shall be among the lost. .ASAD
55 (English) This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). YUSUF ALI
The Qur'an says all good things. Once again, good things. Not bad things, but good and pure. And women are mentioned, not same sex homosexuals. So in essence, homosexuality is not good.
In a more easy to understand terminology, homosexuals are the enemies of mankind. This is a more cruder way of explaining the analogy than I put previously about everyone turning 'gay' overnight. Let's not try and fool people here with financial burdens, over populated societies and probabilities. The fact remains homosexuality is peverse and dangersous to the whole of civilization.
Homosexuals in my view give up the right to bear or raise children as soon as they start following their perversions. How the hell can homosexuals say that want to give up their right to children by becoming homosexual, but want to raise children in order to fulfill the natural and traditional trend of familyhood which they have given up in the first place. Kids raised by homosexuals are traumatised, emotionally and socially.
Statistically, it's obvious same sex parents are less liklely to abuse children than their hetrosexual counterparts because homosexuals are a minority in this world and thus the statistical ratio for parenthood is a minority, thus the likelihood of abuse is going to also be a minority. Come on Scrotu, you can do better than this.
-
Scrotu
It's Srotu, not Scrotu, I have to wonder why you added that extra 'c'. Talk of homosexuality getting to your head? heh, I kid, I kid.
Despite your attempt at explaning, you still haven't explained how they are a threat to civilisation. Heck, you haven't really clarified what in the world that 'analogy' was.
Proof, please, that the kids are traumatised.
Which is why I and other like-minded people say that sexuality is not an indication of likelihood of abuse which basically means that homosexuals are not more likely than heterosexuals to abuse children. C'mon man, you can do better than this.
Look at it this way, homosexual couples adopting is a good thing because all the heterosexuals in the world aren't adopting those kids they just did. Heck, barring death, it's those irresponsible heterosexuals who are at fault!
Also you forget that there are homosexuals who can raise biological children. Homosexuality doesn't mean they aren't able to have biological children, they don't 'give up' their right to have children by 'becoming homosexual'. How do they give it up exactly? None of them are sterilised the moment they come out of the closet.
I'm not advocating that gay marriage should be legal in Islam, I know that is simply impossible to legislate, my stance is that what people do in private is their business between them and God.
-
55 (Asad) Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, and your food is lawful to them. And , in wedlock, women from among those who believe , and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. But as for him who rejects belief - in vain will be all his works for in the life to come he shall be among the lost. .ASAD
55 (English) This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). YUSUF ALI
The Qur'an says all good things. Once again, good things. Not bad things, but good and pure. And women are mentioned, not same sex homosexuals. So in essence, homosexuality is not good.
Not a very strong argument because women are mentioned in addition to "good things". 55 doesn't say "Good things like chaste women"; 55 says "Good things and chaste women". It's okay if you want to pretend that homosexuals are a major threat to humanity, but please don't pretend like the god agrees with you because the god doesn't. Why would It? Neither you nor anyone who's argued against homosexuality has proven homosexuality to be "perverse" or "dangerous".
-
Strotu. My sincerest apologies on the 'Scrotu' mis-spelling. It was indeed a genuine typo error and not malicious in any form.
Secondly, I do not have a problem with peoples individual choices or lifestyles for that matter as we all excercise choice. The problem for me arises when someone tries to justify their lifestyle and actions as part of normal and acceptable behaviour in line with religious beliefs which includes trying to hoodwink the innocent and vulnerable. Children in this case.
As far as enemies to civilization is concerned, like I said before, the easiest way to put it is if all mankind was to turn 'gay' overnight, what would happen to the human race? Whether it is possible or not is besides the point. The fact is in order for mankind to continue, male and female need to procreate. If we give up his fundamental right, natural course and way of life, mankind will cease to exist. Period. There is no super science required in order to understand this simple concept.
Being 'gay' or homosexual is an individual choice made after birth and not a condition which is determined in the womb or foetus before being born. You might be gullible to the 'so called' studies and research, but not me.
As far as Supernaut is concerned, The Qur'an is very clear in the ayats. Whether you understand, accept or agree is not my problem. You can manipulate, disagree, bend over backwards to find a compatible reason to fall in line with homosexuality, but the fact remains, the Quran states in numerous ayats relating to man marrying woman. Not man marrying man.
2221 (Asad) AND DO NOT marry women who ascribe divinity to aught beside God ere they attain to belief for any believing bondwoman is certainly better than a woman who ascribes divinity to aught beside God, even though she please you greatly. And do not give your women in marriage to men who ascribe divinity to aught beside God ere they attain to belief for- any believing bondman is certainly better than a man who ascribes divinity to aught beside God, even though he please you greatly. these invite unto the fire, whereas God invites unto paradise, and unto forgiveness by His leave; and He makes clear His messages unto mankind, so that they might bear them in mind.
43 (Asad) And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably towards orphans, then marry from among women such as are lawful to you - two, or three, or four but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then one - or those whom you rightfully possess. This will make it more likely that you will not deviate from the right course.
423 (Asad) Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your aunts paternal and maternal, and a brother's daughters, and a sister's daughters; and your milk-mothers, and your milk-sisters; and the mothers of your wives; and your step-daughters - who are your foster children - born of your wives with whom you have consummated your marriage; but if you have not consummated your marriage, you will incur no sin ; and the spouses of the sons who have sprung from your loins; and to have two sisters at one and the same time - but what is past is past for, behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
425 (Asad) And as for those of you who, owing to cir?cumstances, are not in a position to marry free believing women, believing maidens from among those whom you rightfully possess. And God knows all about your faith; each one of you is an issue of the other. marry them, then, with their people's leave, and give them their dowers in an equitable manner - they being women who give themselves in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. And when they are married, and thereafter become guilty of immoral conduct, they shall be liable to half the penalty to which free married women are liable. This to those of you who fear lest they stumble into evil. But it is for your own good to persevere in patience and God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
You can shout at the top of your voice until the cows come home regarding homosexuality being 'normal'. When the sublime reality, course of nature, Islam and God states it is not!
Peace
-
You know what the "gay muslim" who are in a active relation ship with other men want.
They want to find an excuse to "rightfuly" be able to go on their "husband".
Hey none of my business long as they keep this stuff private, and also as long as they don't try to justify their acts using other "meanings" by manipulating words in the quran.
And it's not a few gay men and women that will make the world go down, they are like people who are born ermaphrodites, they are rare cases.
Except that for homosexuals, the difference isn't physically notifiable, it's in the brain
"how do i brain surgery to see if i'm gay lol"
-
As far as enemies to civilization is concerned, like I said before, the easiest way to put it is if all mankind was to turn 'gay' overnight, what would happen to the human race? Whether it is possible or not is besides the point. The fact is in order for mankind to continue, male and female need to procreate. If we give up his fundamental right, natural course and way of life, mankind will cease to exist. Period. There is no super science required in order to understand this simple concept.
We seem to not understand each other here. As I've said before, being homosexual doesn't mean they do not want children, on top of that it doesn't mean they do not have the ability to have children. Human beings will not cease to exist as long as that need exist and their parts still function. Spartan, Greek society functioned in this manner, they recognise the need to produce issues despite a liberal approach to sexuality. You do not give up your "fundamental right, natural course and way of life" upon realising you are not attracted to the opposite sex. You are posturing on "what ifs", here I present to you another likely scenario and in a strange, pompous way you shoot it down despite not knowing what the world be like either. In any case, I do not see any sense in that rhetoric as it is not happening any time soon and will not. Logic, mister. And even if it does happen, it will be because God stated it to be so and then how are you going to argue with that?
Being 'gay' or homosexual is an individual choice made after birth and not a condition which is determined in the womb or foetus before being born. You might be gullible to the 'so called' studies and research, but not me.
The greatest minds have been denounced through the years by ignorant religious folk who refuse to accept science. I prefer to accept concrete evidence as opposed to the baseless beliefs of another person. It is the same reason I left Sunni Islam, it is the same way I approach many things in life. Agree to disagree, alright?
You can shout at the top of your voice until the cows come home regarding homosexuality being 'normal'. When the sublime reality, course of nature, Islam and God states it is not!
Brother, I don't have to shout, I know that once you let knowledge out and still people revel in ignorance it's time to let go and move on. Let's just see how it's gonna be like in the Afterlife, eh? And what God truly feels about the matter.
-
Strotu
Many thanks for your response.
I do agree that we can agree to disagree. I am no religious nut and neither am I a subscriber to Darwin's Evolutionary Theory either. Islam is a way of life where Science and Religion are compatible with each other and gives us the opportunity o get the balance right. What I am saying is that Homosexuality is not compatible with Islam or any of the other major Faiths for that matter.
Finally, the last sentence concerning shouting at the top of your voice was not for you. It was intended for Supernaut.
Peace
-
Strotu
Many thanks for your response.
I do agree that we can agree to disagree. I am no religious nut and neither am I a subscriber to Darwin's Evolutionary Theory either. Islam is a way of life where Science and Religion are compatible with each other and gives us the opportunity o get the balance right. What I am saying is that Homosexuality is not compatible with Islam or any of the other major Faiths for that matter.
Finally, the last sentence concerning shouting at the top of your voice was not for you. It was intended for Supernaut.
Peace
Actually the scientific method came from the quran... so...
It was people like the above that tried to destroy Islam.
They made the feminine male go after the male, and they promoted it.
When it's evident for everyone, that the feminine male has his partner in the masculine female, these same evil minded indivudals promoted sugar coated misery for such males and females.
That's why I'm a... gay against same sexi.
-
Peace FAR,
It was people like the above that tried to destroy Islam.
Do you mean people like me? I wish I could destroy Orthodox Islam, which is irrational, ridiculous and unscientific, but islam (peacemaking) will always stay because it is the "religion" every human is naturally inclined to (3030).
They made the feminine male go after the male, and they promoted it.
When it's evident for everyone, that the feminine male has his partner in the masculine female
Are straight men attracted to straight women because they like the shape of their brains? No. Gay men can't like lesbian women even though they have masculine brains because people are attracted to other people's bodies and not their brains. Please forgive me, but your argument is downright ridiculous!
these same evil minded indivudals promoted sugar coated misery for such males and females.
What makes them "evil minded"? So far no one who's against homosexuality has provided even one good reason why homosexuality is evil. Homophobia is no different from racism because homophobia, like racism, is hating certain people for something they have no control over. Perhaps homophobes will realize this one day.
-
Supernaut
My dear friend. You seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. Homosexuality is controllable, is not a condition determined prior to birth and cannot thus be compared to racism. Homosexuals are the enemies to civilization and are much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'. Why? Because Homosexuals have a vendetta and hatred towards all mankind by practising an act which will not procreate the human race and due to the perverted attraction to the same sex, you have no concerns for your fellow human race. Anyway, regardless of what I say or the majority of the world says, you will never agree on the sin of homosexuality.
The Qur'an makes it abundantly clear on the evils of homosexuality. Whether you accept it or not is your problem and not mine or anyone else's. Just refrain from trying to attach it to Islam and pretend it is something normal, right and within the scopes of the Deen.
Peace
-
Supernaut
My dear friend. You seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. Homosexuality is controllable, is not a condition determined prior to birth and cannot thus be compared to racism. Homosexuals are the enemies to civilization and are much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'. Why? Because Homosexuals have a vendetta and hatred towards all mankind by practising an act which will not procreate the human race and due to the perverted attraction to the same sex, you have no concerns for your fellow human race. Anyway, regardless of what I say or the majority of the world says, you will never agree on the sin of homosexuality.
The Qur'an makes it abundantly clear on the evils of homosexuality. Whether you accept it or not is your problem and not mine or anyone else's. Just refrain from trying to attach it to Islam and pretend it is something normal, right and within the scopes of the Deen.
Peace
Salaam,
Thankyou zulu1,,, well said...
Please realise Supernaut that it is ok to have these feelings. That is normal. Your choice to act upon them, if you do, is a choice you make. And that is why we say it is controllable. Many people in the west act upon these feelings due to their wrong understanding. Their minds are confused and programmed by the media and society they live in which drills into them that homosexuality is ok, uncontrollable, and denying it means you are living a lie.
Thousands (if not millions) of people in Middle Eastern countries have similar feelings. Only a tiny percentage are homosexual though. The others control their feelings and never act upon them. Why?
Well, some understand that it is wrong, sinful, unnatural, selfish, uncontributing to society. Others however choose to control these feelings despite their intention to act upon them due to fear of execution, arrest, torture and abuse. (Iran, U.A.E, and KSA are a few examples). It does work but I disagree with this approach. These individuals should be made to understand that their actions must be kept private. There will be no such thing as civil partnerships, adoption, gay tv, gay pride, and all the other sickness.
However, homosexuality is not a special case. In U.A.E for example a heterosexual british couple were arrested and deported for having sex on a public beach.
Regards
Ramzi
-
Peace FAR,
Do you mean people like me? I wish I could destroy Orthodox Islam, which is irrational, ridiculous and unscientific, but islam (peacemaking) will always stay because it is the "religion" every human is naturally inclined to (3030).
You weren't above on my page.
Are straight men attracted to straight women because they like the shape of their brains? No. Gay men can't like lesbian women even though they have masculine brains because people are attracted to other people's bodies and not their brains. Please forgive me, but your argument is downright ridiculous!
Yes and some people realize they aren't attracted to that same body they were once fornicating with. If you believe the homosexual or even the heterosexual is so shallow... sir, please remember that fornication is not an option. And most same sexers do not get married.
What makes them "evil minded"? So far no one who's against homosexuality has provided even one good reason why homosexuality is evil. Homophobia is no different from racism because homophobia, like racism, is hating certain people for something they have no control over. Perhaps homophobes will realize this one day.
I have already explained that I am a homosexual that understood the Andrea Dworkin's model, which is closer to the Quranic method than "orthodox" practices. Those people who do not wish to recognize the homosexual people, will obviously promote that either they coform to society's notions of same sexism or living with heterosexuals partners. Neither method works for us.
That's why I'm homosexual against same sex (No one is ready for the term 'same sexism'
-
My dear friend. You seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. Homosexuality is controllable, is not a condition determined prior to birth and cannot thus be compared to racism.
Of course. You're right because... you just are. Forget all the science that says otherwise because science is logical, objective and verifiable. Who needs that kind of nonsense? What chance does that kind of nonsense have against your esteemed opinion?
Homosexuals are the enemies to civilization and are much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'. Why? Because Homosexuals have a vendetta and hatred towards all mankind by practising an act which will not procreate the human race and due to the perverted attraction to the same sex
And sterile people are just as bad. Shame on sterile people because they're trying to end the human race. Shame on people with genetic disorders too because they can pass on their genetic disorders to their kids and thus weaken the human race. Sterile people and people with genetic disorders are "much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'".
you have no concerns for your fellow human race.
Neither do people with genetic disorders nor sterile people.
Anyway, regardless of what I say or the majority of the world says, you will never agree on the sin of homosexuality.
Oh no, you've shown me the light hail
-
Peace FAR,
Yes and some people realize they aren't attracted to that same body they were once fornicating with. If you believe the homosexual or even the heterosexual is so shallow... sir, please remember that fornication is not an option. And most same sexers do not get married.
Why do you think they don?t get married?
I have already explained that I am a homosexual that understood the Andrea Dworkin's model, which is closer to the Quranic method than "orthodox" practices. Those people who do not wish to recognize the homosexual people, will obviously promote that either they coform to society's notions of same sexism or living with heterosexuals partners. Neither method works for us.
Forgive me, but I don?t understand what you mean by that.
-
This thread is getting sad. At first it was amusing, and then it's just sad.
Most homosexuals don't get married because in a lot of places...THEY CAN'T.
Andrea Dworkin. She held misandrist views and was more known for her anti-pornography stance, her radical feminism and, unfortunately, her bizarre claims of being raped in Paris.
Second, being a lesbian means to me that there is an erotic passion and intimacy which comes of touch and taste, a wild, salty tenderness, a wet sweet sweat, our breasts, our mouths, our cunts, our intertangled hairs, our hands. I am speaking here of a sensual passion as deep and mysterious as the sea, as strong and still as the mountain, as insistent and changing as the wind. --"Lesbian Pride" from "Our Blood Prophecies and Discourses on Sexual Politics"
Doesn't sound like she was opposed to homosexual sex. At least for lesbians. Let me remind you, she didn't like men much. The man she married is gay, John Stoltenberg in some ways, denies his manhood, subscribing to Dworkin's beliefs. Always it is about male aggression and dominace; in a homosexual relationships, the only way to explain it, according to her, is that the 'bottom' is a feminised male used by the 'top' much in the same way heterosexual sex is like rape.
As long as male sexuality is expressed as force or violence, men as a class will continue to enforce the taboo against male homosexuality to protect themselves from having that force or violence directed against them. Women will be their surrogates, and every institution in the society will continue to demand that men do to women what men would find insufferable if done to themselves. -- from "Pornography Men and Boys"
However, she also says this.
We must move away from the perverse, two-dimensional definitions which stem from sexual repression, which are the source of social oppression, and move toward creative, full, multidimensional modes of sexual expression.--from "Woman Hating"Make what you will of it.
Homosexuals are the enemies to civilization and are much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'. Why? Because Homosexuals have a vendetta and hatred towards all mankind by practising an act which will not procreate the human race and due to the perverted attraction to the same sex, you have no concerns for your fellow human race.
Heterosexuals, by virtue of the sheer number and prevalence, have done much of the damage to the human race without the need for help from deviant sexualities. But does that make them evil because of their sexuality? NO. The enemies to civilisation are hatred, fear and ignorance. I am disgusted by your claim that homosexuals are worser than racists, who have killed numerous people (can you compare the statistical damage of homosexuals whatever the hell that is, to the damage wrought by genocides?), the bigots (hey remember September 11, the Inquisition, the Zionists?), sexists (by your claim this would mean that the deaths of innocent women at the hands of misogynists are insignificant compared to the mere existence of homosexuals) and various other forms out of the combination of hatred, fear and ignorance.
Let me come up with a list. By your reasoning, all these people have done damage to humanity
Helen Keller, author
Annie Sullivan, H. Keller's teacher
Mother Teresa, nun
Florence Nightingale, pioneer in nursing
Harriet Tubman, humanitarian
Dr. Elizabeth Blackwell, first female doctor
Ludwig Van Beethoven, composer
Mahmoud Darwish, Palestinian poet
Leonardo Da Vinci, polymath extraordinaire possibly the greatest genius
Emily Dickinson, poet
T.S. Eliot, poet
Cecil Green, philanthropist/geophysicist
Howard Harold Hanson, Pulitzer Prize-winning composer
Georg Friedrich Handel, composer
Sir Isaac Newton, scientist
Linus Pauling, scientist
Wislawa Szymborska, Nobel Prize-winning poet
Nikola Tesla, inventorJust a short one. All these people have no children and a few of those are possibly asexuals (note, no sexual attraction, hence possibly, by your reasoning, even more evil than homosexuals). I reckon, they have done more for humanity and civilisation than you can ever hope to do. Which is what, merely reproducing your genes? My apologies if you are actually a brilliant scientist/poet/humanitarian/artist/philanthropist in training.
-
Peace,
To say Homosexuals are the enemy of humanity because they do not produce children is the weirdest of them all. The earth is over-populated and there will be not enough resources on earth for everybody, even if all resources would be handed out equally. Most scientists agree that we must cut down the birth rates if we want to stabilize mankind and its enviroment.
Second, the argument would fail if every homosexual still would create a child, but remain gay after the child is born.