Could an Atheist be a believer.
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Peace Lobster, all,
Just wanted to share some points
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This life is not black and white; it is very colorful. You can always find at least a good aspect in every bad thing, and also atleast a bad aspect in every good thing.
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Right and wrong are concepts that wouldn't exist without Human species. Right/wrong or good/bad in nature or in the animal world have no value.
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Human species didn't accpet its status in the animal world, and decided as a whole to take its destiny in hand, not just being subjected to natural phenomenons, but to decide and influence our environment => Free will.
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Each of our decisions during our lifetime is not black or white only, there is a spectrum of colors. Also, not only one decision would make us in "hell" or in "paradise", but it is the sum of our actions, it is like an average, and we have plenty of time to go this side or the other. At the end, I think it is a matter of how far are we from the truth.
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As for your atheist friend, maybe she is rejecting the religious figure of god as depicted in the mainstream religions, but she might agree about the existance of a supreme "watchmaker".
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Some times our actions have indirect side effects.I'm sorry but I don't think I understood that properly, but if it means what I think it does, then I agree with sort of. .
To understand how sometime our actions indirectly hurt others is part of learning process in a civilization, as long as we learn from our mistakes there is a room for improvement.
If you keep feeling bad, you know that you are doing something wrong or harmful, but you cannot stop. That happens a lot with people, that is why having this inner conscience isn't enough.
May be you missed what I said earlier
7174 Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."There are some people who are put off religion because they see s. c. religious people making so much mischief in the world, in the name of God, and getting away with it. This turns many people to the belief that there is no God as there seems to be no checks and balances.
However some people are inherently good and truthful, GOD IS THEIR CONSCIENCE AND THEY WOULD NOT GO AGAINST THEIR CONSCIENCE, whereas others pretend to be believers, but do all they can to fool others. They are not not aware of their conscience and are deaf and blind. Nothing can convince them of what is a real good deed as they rebel against their own self.
However those who possess a reminding conscience AND believe that they are answerable to God, feeling they are constantly watched by the Almighty these are the ones who are careful of their testimony to God.Satan is not a believer as he has seen God after which there is no belief but rather knowledge. He is simply rebellious, but for the rest of us, who never had direct conversation with God it all depends on our beliefs whether we believe in justice and accountability for our deeds to our creator. If we do we believe in God but do not believe in accountability there is no active conscience to haunt you or remind you.
A believer reflects on God's creation and has expectations from afterlife, a non believer lacks this concepts so his life has limited meaning 7185
Did they not look at the dominion of heavens and Earth, and all that God has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which narrations after this one will they believe?You need something more to push you to do the right thing
So you do agree we need something more like a proper system handshake
Peace Lobster, all,
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Human species didn't accpet its status in the animal world, and decided as a whole to take its destiny in hand, not just being subjected to natural phenomenons, but to decide and influence our environment => Free will.
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Each of our decisions during our lifetime is not black or white only, there is a spectrum of colors. Also, not only one decision would make us in "hell" or in "paradise", but it is the sum of our actions, it is like an average, and we have plenty of time to go this side or the other. At the end, I think it is a matter of how far are we from the truth.
handshake
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Maybe you say you are an atheist because you reject the god described by christians or any big religious institution, because it does not make sense
or any traditional view of god, like making god something that will get angry, that need attention, all that kind of bullshit.The true God, is fair in all affairs. Nobody knows God enough to say "i truely disbelieve". What you disbelieve in, is the current view people have of God.
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Maybe you say you are an atheist because you reject the god described by christians or any big religious institution, because it does not make sense
or any traditional view of god, like making god something that will get angry, that need attention, all that kind of bullshit.The true God, is fair in all affairs. Nobody knows God enough to say "i truely disbelieve". What you disbelieve in, is the current view people have of God.
Maybe.
What I'm trying to do is understand God working backwards. If believing in God makes us good, then those who are good must believe in god.
So we must learn from those who live a happy, righteous life, no matter what their beliefs are supposed to be. -
Maybe.
What I'm trying to do is understand God working backwards. If believing in God makes us good, then those who are good must believe in god.
Nope, that's a logical fallacy. All bears are mammals does not all mammals are bears. Just because believing in God makes you good doesn't mean there aren't other factors affecting behaviour.
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Nope, that's a logical fallacy. All bears are mammals does not all mammals are bears. Just because believing in God makes you good doesn't mean there aren't other factors affecting behaviour.
True, but you can tell when a person's actions are genuine or when they are forced or fake.
It's a little more complicated than just copying other peoples' actions.
Let me change that to people who do good for the sake of it. Is that good enough or am I overlooking something again? -
I always thought an atheist was one who does not beleive in God. When you say "Believe", what are you talking about, because if it is God, then that individual is not an Atheist.
The question is, what is god?
The problem here is, what if the "believers" have the wrong idea of god, and if someone who calls themselves an "atheist" could actually be right about god. -
I think what is necessary is believing in an entity which not only has power over the universe, but also behind that power, possesses conscious direction.
So it's only enough just to believe in a 'great life force' or 'Tao' - you must believe this life force or Tao has conscious purpose and direction. Because otherwise you don't believe in any higher purpose. And I think this belief in higher purpose is the primary component of faith in God.
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I always thought an atheist was one who does not beleive in God. When you say "Believe", what are you talking about, because if it is God, then that individual is not an Atheist.
Salaam,
Israeli spokes person says Israel and USA are not signatories to ICC and Israel has committed no more war crimes than the US and the UK did in Iraq and Afghanistan and he warned that, if any one tried to bring Israel before the ICC through UN, that would be the end of international law. Now, for those who do not believe in God or accountability, that is the end of it.
As for those who believe they know justice will be done by the almighty in this world or in the hereafter.324. But how (will they fare) when we gather them together against a day about which there is no doubt, and each soul will be paid out just what it has earned, without (favour or) injustice?
peace -
I agree, but I'm pretty sure that the ICC can try people for crimes not committed in a signatory country. America is an exception because it made separate deals with the UN bodies setting up the court. However Israel did not make any such deals, so it's generals should be chased by the ICC. Faith in God complements worldly justice, it does not invalidate it.
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I agree, but I'm pretty sure that the ICC can try people for crimes not committed in a signatory country. America is an exception because it made separate deals with the UN bodies setting up the court. However Israel did not make any such deals, so it's generals should be chased by the ICC. Faith in God complements worldly justice, it does not invalidate it.
Salaam
http//www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=82310§ionid=351020202
ICC overlooks Israel's war crimes allegation
Wed, 14 Jan 2009 193438 GMTIsrael is accused of using white phosphorus against Gazans. The US intelligence has classified WP as a "chemical weapon."
The International Criminal Court prosecutor says it lacks jurisdiction to investigate possible Israeli war crimes committed in Gaza.The ICC prosecutor said in a statement Wednesday that the "court's jurisdiction is limited to war crimes, crimes against humanity and the crime of genocide committed on the territory of, or by a national of, a state party while Israel is not a member state. ....
The ICC prosecutor said in a statement Wednesday that the "court's ... Israel and the United States are not among the 108 signatories of the Rome Statute creating the Hague-based court in 2000 to investigate and prosecute war crimes.
See below
*On 28 August 2002, the Secretary-General, in his capacity as treaty repository, received from the government of Israel the following communication
"...n connection with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court adopted on 17 July 1998, Israel does not intend to become a party to the treaty. Accordingly, Israel has no legal obligations arising from its signature on 31 December 2000. Israel requests that its intention not to become a party, as expressed in this letter, be reflected in the depositary's status lists relating to this treaty."
**On 6 May 2002, the Secretary-General, in his capacity as treaty repository, received from the government of the United States America the following communication
"...n connection with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court adopted on July 17, 1998, the United States does not intend to become a party to the treaty. Accordingly, the United States has no legal obligations arising from its signature on December 31, 2000. The United States requests that its intention not to become a party, as expressed in this letter, be reflected in the depositary's status lists relating to this treaty -
nope
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Hi,
Could we say an atheist is really a believer, if his actions are in accordance with the attributes of God?
confused
Thanks.
A reflection on Muslim and Mumin, Islam and Iman; Titles of humane behaviour
http//deenresearchusa-com.web26.winsvr.net/Blogs/tabid/73/EntryId/17/A-reflection-on-Muslim-and-Mumin-Islam-and-Iman-Titles-of-humane-behaviour.aspxThe philosophical and humanitarian implication of Kufr
http//deenresearchusa-com.web26.winsvr.net/Blogs/tabid/73/EntryId/24/The-philosophical-and-humanitarian-implication-of-Kufr.aspx -
An atheist is half a believer. A believer says La ilaha ilallah, no god but God. An atheist has the first part okay, it's just the second part that causes them trouble.
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Somehow I think that the atheists are not the people who don't have the object of worship.
Maybe they reject to believe in the existence of the Creator, but looks like they have object of worship. In my opinion, it could be they worship themselves a.k.a. their own desires.
Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Will you then be a wakil over him?
Salm.
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Atheists and theists are equally bad. The atheist only thinks they are not serving an object.
The only real attitude is living in the spirit of a higher power but not make what is "God" into an object so one is neither theist nor atheist.
JavaLatte is right that atheists are not really atheist because god is their ego unless they are atheist who are deeply spiritual anyway and have faith in good.
They are all theists and only the one who is erasing his or her ego and does not take an item to worship, including the Allah/"God" delusion, is truly "atheist". Believe in good and you are not theist. Theism is bad because it has a fallible god attributed to them.
Heck even material and your possessions is your god.
It all comes down to the spiritual soul "charge" of good vs. evil, and that is by what you will be measured when the Day comes. Hardcore Pagan style "worship" will be to no avail because there is nothing which can be bribed.
The best soul in "God"/Allah is the one who was good in behavior and deed and walked in its spirit. They submitted with their mind and so they separated their spirit from the flesh and materials of this illusive world which is merely an advanced network of energy in disguise of something concrete.
Be of one with God
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Atheists and theists are equally bad. The atheist only thinks they are not serving an object.
That by definition is Egotism, a strange theism of the Self or "I" and not really atheism in the true sense, it can be understood as a form of apotheosis.
It's the habit of valuing everything only in reference to one's personal interest; selfishness, plus the view that morality ultimately rests on self-interest. The elevation or exaltation of a person to the rank of a god except they elevate themselves as "god-like" or in extreme cases a "god" not unlike the Pharaoh of Moses. It's also common to see apotheosis in Christianity but I believe that's a discussion for another day but should be of note that Athanasius of Alexandria, a staunch defender of the Christian trinity said""For He was made man that we might be made God."[, and the Mormons believe they will become gods through the doctrine of Exaltation which is explained in this couplet "As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be". Still that's a discussion for another day.
The doctrine or belief that there is no God or disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings is atheism in a nutshell but the "atheists' I know worship themselves through logic and science which are both made by men for men, so we understand the laws of nature this creation of Allah Almighty adheres to. They believe that existence of God defies logic and science; If something cannot be explained by science or logic to them, it is shot down and critiqued very, very harshly. This is nothing short of egoism and shirk. I dare say atheism as a belief is an illusion much like an optical illusion. However I could be wrong but that is my understanding at the moment so far.
Maybe they reject to believe in the existence of the Creator, but looks like they have object of worship. In my opinion, it could be they worship themselves a.k.a. their own desires.
@JavaLatte- Most certainly, I believe I am certain of this, why else would they get upset at mention of God? Because they love the Creation better than Creator, want to maintain the illusion of superiority and know very well that their "Golden Calf" (Their beliefs) will melt before Truth; They are proud and don't want to humble themselves before Allah, much like Iblis.
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The doctrine or belief that there is no God or disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings is atheism in a nutshell but the "atheists' I know worship themselves through logic and science which are both made by men for men, so we understand the laws of nature this creation of Allah Almighty adheres to. They believe that existence of God defies logic and science; If something cannot be explained by science or logic to them, it is shot down and critiqued very, very harshly.
True and unfortunately, everything cannot be explained by God. I voted atheists are not believers. I met multiple of them in school which forces me to say that those who have God in their heart can be loving and sympathetic. And those who don't they are neither loving nor sympathetic. In my PE class back in high school I befriended a girl who came from atheist household. Her parents taught her to not believe in any God. I had no problem with that. I continued being her friend. Then one day, on our way back from gym, three girls caught me to bully for no reason. I needed help. That atheist girl was with me. Funny that as soon as I was caught, she pretended to not know me and just left me there despite the fact that she saw me being heavily trapped. I had hindu, jewish and of course christian friends. Every time I was in some kind of problem they stood up for me. But this is not all. Majority of the atheist friends turned out to be highly selfish even in their view. Its always about their own pleasure. They can see you die. Oh wait, this is what they did to a tiny kid in China also.
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True and unfortunately, everything cannot be explained by God. I voted atheists are not believers. I met multiple of them in school which forces me to say that those who have God in their heart can be loving and sympathetic. And those who don't they are neither loving nor sympathetic. In my PE class back in high school I befriended a girl who came from atheist household. Her parents taught her to not believe in any God. I had no problem with that. I continued being her friend. Then one day, on our way back from gym, three girls caught me to bully for no reason. I needed help. Its always about their own pleasure. They can see you die. Oh wait, this is what they did to a tiny kid in China also.
Many sympathies for your trouble, atheists can be hypocritical and although some may be good, as an ex-atheist, I say this Atheists are probably the most self-righteous, self-centered and most prideful group of beings the human race has to offer as cruel as that sounds. The two parts I highlighted remind me of 4620 "And on the Day that the Unbelievers will be placed before the Fire, (It will be said to them) "Ye received your good things in the life of the world, and ye took your pleasure out of them but today shall ye be recompensed with a Penalty of humiliation for that ye were arrogant on earth without just cause, and that ye (ever) transgressed." ( Yusuf Ali translation), 210 "In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves)." (Yusuf Ali translation) and 552 "Those in whose hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts." (Yusuf Ali, once again)
What happened to the kid in China? ( I didn't hear about it.