The Myth that Women have to "Obey" their Husbands

progod

Salaam sister Farida

If that is the case then even the worst most despicable men are qwamoon over women including the believing, chaste women of high status and intelligence. They can be the most stupid ones on earth, yet have the right to demand obedience from women, who may disobey them only at the peril of physical violence.
This would contradict the teaching of the Qur?an that judges people only on their conduct, not on their gender status. I don?t think that there was a shortage of words for men in Arabic that God should chose the word rajl/rijaal which could mean in your words

Well, the Quran is not stating a fact here. Because not all men are qawaamoona. This is an order and not the statement of a fact. You should read that as 'Men are to be the Qawaamoona' to avoid confusion. If I'm delegating responsiblity I can say grammatically correctly to the person I WANT to be leader 'You are the leader.' I'm not talking about anyting innate, I'm telling him what to do and this is what the Quran is doing. Now it's intersting how words like wali, saahib and qawwam seem to take authoritive meanings when they have to do more with caring and supportive relationships. I think this has to do with a brother's (or sister's) keeper attitude among friends and family in the development of Classical Arabic. But again this is an order on how men are SUPPOSED to be if they are to follow God's words, not what they innately are.

I looked in the dictionary to double check myself and maybe I wasn't clear. But only the word rijaalaat = great, important men, leading personalities, men of distinction. NOT rajl and rijaal (the plural of rajl). These last two only mean man and men. If I confused you I apologize for that.

Or it is that men in the past did not sit at home taking their anger out on women, but ventured out; first keeping an eye on the vulnerable who needed their support. Having put their house in order they then went out into the wider world conquering country after country and doing all they could to live up to the reputation of people of great repute.

As I said, only the word rijaalaat implies greatness, and the passage mentioning qawwaamoona is an order, just like the passage saying that women are dutiful/obedient and preserve what God would have them preserve in the absence of their men. It's an order for believing women and the passage saying that men are to be qawwaamoon is also a command.

Maybe that is why the Qur?an reminds the wives to guard whatever is entrusted to them which would include the management of the house and the children and themselves while their men are afoot in the wider world. The atmosphere in its context is one of mutual cooperation ?The Believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another; they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil??

All of the Quran encourages mutual respect between men and women but it doesn't try to imply that men and women are exact equals (in duty) and should be doing exactly the same things, but it does of course encourage mutual respect, caring for each other and taking each other into consideration.

So instead of blaming women for men becoming men-children

I never blamed women. Get it right. I blamed modern societal trends.

a
nd trying to create segregation in a Quranic community

Again I'm not trying to create any type of segregation just pointing out that male-female distance when the two are not family, factors into the Quran. And even factors into social cohesion. It's not about forced segregation or treating anyone like they are less. In the eyes of God and in our potential to do good and bad we are all equal. It's a matter of appropriateness and has nothing to do with enforcing any type of segregation.

you should go out of your comfort zones and perform the duties entrusted on you. Living in a ghetto disconnecting with the rest of the world, is not the right way forward. We are supposed to live integrated with other communities and leave a positive impression on others so that they would join Islam too, as was the pattern in the past.

I've been out of my comfort zone for so long I don't think I even have one anymore. And what are you talking about by living in a ghetto? Do I live in a ghetto? Is that what you're implying? Am I disconnecting from the rest of the world by living in my supposed ghetto? What are you talking about?

In the past few hundred years Muslim men got an easy ride by depriving women of education and making them dependant on them for everything in life which made men feel like man. I think that was one reason for our downfall as uneducated mothers were ill equipped to raise rijal who could handle their duty as qwamoon.

An easy ride? I don't know. We have to judge men by their particular, individual situations, I'm sure alot of men have had it tough according to what God chose to dish out to them, just as there are women who have had it easy in all ages. As for Muslim men depriving women of education and making them dependent, I agree. I was shocked to find out how in many Middle Eastern countries women got the right to vote in the 1900's and such, when the Quran gave women this right (and even according to the hadeeth they were given the right) to vote when the last prophet (God bless him) was sent to Arabia with the Quran. So I can definitely say that Muslim men, and the Muslim societies on a whole have been pretty backwards and that is due to the fact that they abandoned the Quran for pre-islamic, local and (in some cases) modern traditions. So I can't argue with you that there are men who have blocked women's education and their ability to raise sound childen. But not all men have been like this and different Muslim societies operated differently, we can't blanket stereotype.

Instead we got good for nothing men with inflated egos unable to think beyond controlling women and asserting their authority. In that process the concept of rijal as a qwamoon was lost.

Many muslims have lost site of their duties as they have lost site of the Quran. But let's not turn this into man bashing. Just as there are good men there are good women as well as bad men and bad women. It is unfortunate that Muslim communities, of all people, forgot the Quran and grabbed onto ingorance in the name of Islam. Or in some cases like now they abandon their backward concepts of Islam to follow other misguided ways and then trash the Quran and their forms of Islam and act like the two are equal. Look at Irshad Manji and Hirsi Ali, two individuals who show they don't know doodee squat about the Quran and lump the Quran and non-Quranic cultures that claim Islam in one. I know I just mentioned two women but there are men like this too. I read an article by a humanist who unfortunately went by the name Anwar, who was a former Muslim. Everything he had to say about the Quran in order to justify his disbelief in it was pure trash and his deficiency in understanding Arabic well was flagrant.

I think it would benefit all men to question why God chose the word rajl for them and whether or not they are living up to the required standards. You posted yesterday a YouTube video asking where are the Muslims (rijaal) while their orphans are left at the mercy of Christian missionaries?

That video had nothing to do with rijaal. You seem to be obsessed with this word and your understanding is a total misunderstanding of Arabic and the Quran. That verse is telling men what to do, and not telling them who they innately are. Overall it is telling men WHO BELIEVE in the Quran what to do. Now we know that many Muslims have abandoned the Quran, and yet still hold the book up high as a grand symbol while they don't read it or seriously follow it. That video was talking about Muslim society as a whole, NOT just men. ANd it is unfortunate that Muslim men AND women have totally abandoned our fellow Muslims and orphaned Muslims in need, and don't help them establish infrastructure that sustains them. This, when taking care of orphans is a top topic in the Quran. But I don't blame people, becuz in this modern age we are all sheep and we have no clue what real independence is or how to help other people establish it, especially the poor Muslims among us.

Godbless,
Anwar

siki

Anwar

That expression of yours was just wonderful

siki

farida

Salaam sister Farida
Well, the Quran is not stating a fact here. Because not all men are qawaamoona. This is an order and not the statement of a fact. ..Now it's intersting how words like wali, saahib and qawwam seem to take authoritive meanings when they have to do more with caring and supportive relationships.
Godbless,
Anwar

Salaam brothe Anwar,
I am glad to see that we are now coming to a common understanding of the role of men and their duty towards nisaa, due to a degree of an advantage they have. My understanding of the Arabic language is nowhere near as good as yours, but I too understood that the word Qwamoon is more to do with a safeguarding, supportive role, rather than an authoritative role

But only the word rijaalaat = great, important men, leading personalities, men of distinction.
There must have been a number of men who earned this title for men and I can only wish we have more rijaalaat in our communities rather than just rijal. pr

As I said, only the word rijaalaat implies greatness, and the passage mentioning qawwaamoona is an order, just like the passage saying that women are dutiful/obedient and preserve what God would have them preserve in the absence of their men. It's an order for believing women and the passage saying that men are to be qawwaamoon is also a command
This sounds better but it?s debatable, so unless someone else give their understanding I would take your explanation and in the future I would mention this to men asserting their authority without being a Qwamoon.

but it doesn't try to imply that men and women are exact equals (in duty) and should be doing exactly the same things, but it does of course encourage mutual respect, caring for each other and taking each other into consideration.
Yes of coure Men and women are equal in value but different in scope, as their respective genetic makeup is suited to different duties. If they go against that make up they may end up suffering from undue stress and imbalance. I am proud to be a woman and see no benefit for myself in acting like a man or trying to replacing men.

I never blamed women. Get it right. I blamed modern societal trends.
Maybe you did not blame women but I got that impression sorry about that. However, like you, I too blame the modern social trend for many problems in our society.

Again I'm not trying to create any type of segregation just pointing out that male-female distance when the two are not family, factors into the Quran
I think we got confused here; I was not talking about segregation between men and women. I was referring to the Quranic society which, to me, is like a ghetto. As for communicating with men outside my family I believe it should be done in an open atmosphere so that there is no secret relationship. I get on well with men and often have good discussions but always along with my husband or with his consent/knowledge, which include posting on the web or any emails to men outside my family.

I've been out of my comfort zone for so long I don't think I even have one anymore. And what are you talking about by living in a ghetto? Do I live in a ghetto? Is that what you're implying? Am I disconnecting from the rest of the world by living in my supposed ghetto? What are you talking about?
I used the word You addressing all men, not to insult you or criticise you and, as for living in a ghetto, I have explained above that what I meant was an isolated Quranic community.

But not all men have been like this and different Muslim societies operated differently, we can't blanket stereotype.
Of course I was not blanket stereotyping, rather I was talking about the majority who have done a lot of harm. I still have recollections of my grandfather who lived a simple but healthy life. He was considered mean when it came to spending on himself, but after he died several poor women knocked on our door asking for him as he had been supporting several families from the share of money he had received. Such men have left a very good impression on my childhood and I was expecting to see more of men like him in our generation (and I am sure there are some) but I have not come across any.

Many muslims have lost site of their duties as they have lost site of the Quran. But let's not turn this into man bashing
Believe me I am not doing man bashing but I?m desperately trying to jog men to do their part as expected of them, which is directed at very precious men in my family as well.

That video had nothing to do with rijaal. You seem to be obsessed with this word and your understanding is a total misunderstanding of Arabic and the Quran
You are right I may be obsessed with the role of rijaal and perhaps I have too high expectations from them. We are in a dire situation and as Allah promises that, unless we change what is within us, our state of affairs will not change. I believe its rijal who should be doing more outside their homes and women should make sure to do all they can to raise a good future generation, all looking after each other?s interest. That is the only way out of this terrible decline.
God bless you brother Anwar for replying to me in detail and, before I finish, let me reiterate that my anger is not directed at you but at the state of our whole community who is too self indulgent.
I leave an example of one such person here

the rajal have the right and power to punish for disloyalty and ill conduct, and the range of punishment varies from admonishment to beating

allah hu akbar

peace

Raj-ah

Farida

If that is the case then even the worst most despicable men are qwamoon over women including the believing, chaste women of high status and intelligence. They can be the most stupid ones on earth, yet have the right to demand obedience from women, who may disobey them only at the peril of physical violence.
This would contradict the teaching of the Qur?an that judges people only on their conduct, not on their gender status. I don?t think that there was a shortage of words for men in Arabic that God should chose the word rajl/rijaal which could mean in your

You are confusing two different things. In an organization some one has to be head, CEO, MD, similarly in a Family there must be a head for smooth functioning. Both men and women are told to fullfill some responsibilities and if they properly full fill them what are assigned by Allah then only men is head of the family. Over all a women can be a head of state.
We will talk on this in detail.

farida

Farida
You are confusing two different things. In an organization some one has to be head, CEO, MD, similarly in a Family there must be a head for smooth functioning. Both men and women are told to fullfill some responsibilities and if they properly full fill them what are assigned by Allah then only men is head of the family. Over all a women can be a head of state.
We will talk on this in detail.

Salaam Ra-ja
I understand the concept of Qwamoon but, could you explain what you understand by the man being the head of the family. What would be his obligations and his privileges?
peace

Raj-ah

farida

Salaam Ra-ja
I understand the concept of Qwamoon but, could you explain what you understand by the man being the head of the family. What would be his obligations and his privileges?

Following is what I understand from Quran regarding man being the head of family, and I think Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib has some good explanations

(344)

Men are the guardians of women, because God has given the one more preference than the other, and because they support them. Consequently, pious women are obedient and keep their secrets for Allah also keeps secrets. And as for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and refuse to share their beds and punish them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Indeed Allah is Exalted and Mighty. (434)

4

And in no way covet those things in which God has bestowed His favors on some of you than on others to men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn. And ask God of His bounty. For God has full knowledge of all things. (432)

Men are guardians of the women in a social set up but in reward towards end it is the one who has fullfilled his responsibility smoothly.

Taking these verses as guiding principle in the organization of a family set-up, we see that a family is like a small organization. Just as every organization requires a head for its establishment and survival, this small organization also requires someone to take charge of its helm. Either the husband could have been bestowed with this responsibility or the wife. The Qur?an informs us that the husband has been entrusted with this responsibility. The expression ? ? has been used by the Qur?an to convey this purport. In Arabic, when the preposition ?? is used after the verb ??, the meanings of ?protection? and ?financial dependency? are incorporated in the verb. A person who is in charge is actually the protector and bread runner of the members that are entrusted in his responsibility.

After declaring that the husband should head a family, the Qur?an goes on to point out certain things to the wife for the smooth functioning of the institution of family, like in any organization of the world They are

Wives should be obedient and adaptable to their husbands.
They should keep the secrets of their husbands and protect their honor and integrity

Without obedience and adjustment, no system can work whether it be a state or any other institution. This is the natural requirement of any system. In the absence of these attitudes, no system can function and will ultimately disintegrate by giving way to indiscipline and anarchy.

farida

farida
Following is what I understand from Quran regarding man being the head of family, and I think Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib has some good explanations

(344)

Men are the guardians of women, because God has given the one more preference than the other, and because they support them. Consequently, pious women are obedient and keep their secrets for Allah also keeps secrets. And as for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and refuse to share their beds and punish them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Indeed Allah is Exalted and Mighty. (434)

4

And in no way covet those things in which God has bestowed His favors on some of you than on others to men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn. And ask God of His bounty. For God has full knowledge of all things. (432)

Men are guardians of the women in a social set up but in reward towards end it is the one who has fullfilled his responsibility smoothly.

Taking these verses as guiding principle in the organization of a family set-up, we see that a family is like a small organization. Just as every organization requires a head for its establishment and survival, this small organization also requires someone to take charge of its helm. Either the husband could have been bestowed with this responsibility or the wife. The Qur?an informs us that the husband has been entrusted with this responsibility. The expression ? ? has been used by the Qur?an to convey this purport. In Arabic, when the preposition ?? is used after the verb ??, the meanings of ?protection? and ?financial dependency? are incorporated in the verb. A person who is in charge is actually the protector and bread runner of the members that are entrusted in his responsibility.

After declaring that the husband should head a family, the Qur?an goes on to point out certain things to the wife for the smooth functioning of the institution of family, like in any organization of the world They are

Wives should be obedient and adaptable to their husbands.
They should keep the secrets of their husbands and protect their honor and integrity

Without obedience and adjustment, no system can work whether it be a state or any other institution. This is the natural requirement of any system. In the absence of these attitudes, no system can function and will ultimately disintegrate by giving way to indiscipline and anarchy.

Salaam Ra-ja

You have not answered my question ?what you understand by the man being the head of the family. What would be his obligations and his privileges??
I do not want any explanation from Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib, it was you who volunteered to discuss this in detail with me (We will talk on this in detail.). So let me remind you that a Guardian is not same as the head of the family these are two different roles and have different meaning.

because God has given the one more preference than the other,

Pay attention to 432 no one gets preference for nothing, everyone has work to earn it, call it respect or status or obedience to God

After declaring that the husband should head a family,

Who made this declaration you?
Finally, I would like to ask you Do you have an experience of managing a family?
peace

huruf

ba3du ba3du es reciprocal construct. 4.32 doesn't say favor ones over others, but favor one over other and at the same time the other over the one. That is

on account of wht the ones have been favoured over the others over the ones.

Men are free of the burden of pregnancy birth and breast feeding. That is their advantage and also their disadvantage. The are free and not mortgaged by that biological constraint, whi may be in action only for some time during woman's life but which in fact burdens or constrains her whole life because of he expectation or because of what she missed because of being taken up with the biological mothering functions. On the other hand men can only experience fatherhood by relying on women. Therefore god favoured the one over the others and the others over the ones. And because men do not bear the burdens that women bear, they must compensate socially for that burden and work with their own work of some other kind, therefore instead of th bilogical mothering functions they are legitimatelly expected to contribute to the support of those whodo those functions. That is nothing to do with being head of family, that is a matter of social and human justice and equity, because society perpetuates and sustains itself on account of th renewal of its individuals, the breatest biological burden of it falling on females. Men can cheat out of their part, but God is saying that there must be equity between both sexes. No chief, but balance between burdens.

Salaam

Raj-ah

Salaam Ra-ja

You have not answered my question ?what you understand by the man being the head of the family. What would be his obligations and his privileges??
I do not want any explanation from Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib, it was you who volunteered to discuss this in detail with me (We will talk on this in detail.). So let me remind you that a Guardian is not same as the head of the family these are two different roles and have different meaning.

Quote
because God has given the one more preference than the other,
Pay attention to 432 no one gets preference for nothing, everyone has work to earn it, call it respect or status or obedience to God

Quote
After declaring that the husband should head a family,
Who made this declaration you?
Finally, I would like to ask you Do you have an experience of managing a family?

Salaam to you too...

Oh! I see, you are one of them.
Not want to learn, share and discuss but want to debate, Ok Fari
We discuss it in deatail! in my next post.

blueguest605

ba3du ba3du es reciprocal construct. 4.32 doesn't say favor ones over others, but favor one over other and at the same time the other over the one. That is

on account of wht the ones have been favoured over the others over the ones.

Men are free of the burden of pregnancy birth and breast feeding. That is their advantage and also their disadvantage. The are free and not mortgaged by that biological constraint, whi may be in action only for some time during woman's life but which in fact burdens or constrains her whole life because of he expectation or because of what she missed because of being taken up with the biological mothering functions. On the other hand men can only experience fatherhood by relying on women. Therefore god favoured the one over the others and the others over the ones.

Good words,huruf..this is how I understand it too..this "heading" issue doesnt seem to fit the marriage of two capable persons,equal in rights..I do not say duty,because mothers have a big duty of bearing children and giving them birth and nurturing them-a task that alone takes almost three years-..thats when she needs her husbands support the most.. This issue of "whos the head?" has lead some to give biased interpretations to the scripture and others to say "man is the head of the family,but women can also be heads of their nations and countries.."
Everything in life is relative,the word "obey" refers to the woman who "responds" to her husbands civilized trials to give his woman who considers deserting him a chance to re-assess the situation, beating her or slamming her on the face or stroking her with as light object as "mouswak"-as the well known "hadith" suggests-is not a practical solution at all,it would have deepened the wifes desire to leave,and made the situation worse,any sound person cannot accept the degradation of physical hurt..anyone who does is raised to be a slave and not a free-willed person..

http//free-minds.org/polygamy1

Peace,

farida

Salaam to you too...

Oh! I see, you are one of them.

Salaam,
What do you mean by "one of them"? Do you mean those learned women who can detect misleading interpretations of the Qur'an and are not leaning on men/mullah/Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to explain the Qur'an to them?

Not want to learn, share and discuss but want to debate, Ok Fari

See your own reflection there, It's you who is unwilling to learn and share, sister Hurufs excellent and unbiased interpretation of you simply ignored it because in your immature manner you refuse to acknowledge what Allah says in the Qur'an, like Brahmin Hindus you would rather take the twisted version to make you feel superior about yourself as the preferred gender. brickwall
6139. They say "What is in the wombs of such and such cattle is specially reserved for our men, and forbidden to our women; but if it is still-born, then all have share therein. For their attribution (to Allah), He will soon punish them for He is full of wisdom and knowledge.

We discuss it in deatail! in my next post

Jaa!!! and ask your Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to help you prepare a reply for your next post.
NO! I have no desire to debate with those who do not have even have the manners to address women properly. Ok
May Allah help you to increase your knowledge for your own benefit.

farida

Good words,huruf..this is how I understand it too..this "heading" issue doesnt seem to fit the marriage of two capable persons,equal in rights.. This issue of "whos the head?" has lead some to give biased interpretations to the scripture and others to say "man is the head of the family,but women can also be heads of their nations and countries.."

Peace,

Salaam

Wife and husband are like the two wheels of a cart who need to support and co-ordinate with each other to make a smooth journey for their family. This absured idea that like; In an organization some one has to be head, CEO, MD, similarly in a Family there must be a head for smooth functioning is not based on reality; companies are mis-managed and go bust by the minute in case they have not heard.

peace

blueguest605

Salaam

Wife and husband are like the two wheels of a cart who need to support and co-ordinate with each other to make a smooth journey for their family. This absured idea that like; In an organization some one has to be head, CEO, MD, similarly in a Family there must be a head for smooth functioning is not based on reality; companies are mis-managed and go bust by the minute in case they have not heard.

peace

sun I very much agree with you farida,actually the world now is working to get rid of the concept "competition" to turn it into "cooperation" handshake,and thats another step on the ladder of human progress... I see that verse 432"And do not envy what God has favored some of you over others. For the men is a portion of what they gained, and for the women is a portion of what they gained. And ask God from His favor, God is knowledgeable over all things." is simply asserting the relativity of each individuals abilities and Gods provisions upon them,and no gender should claim to possess certain qualities and see that the other is deprived from them...each individual gains education and experiences that shape their personality and qualify them for certain jobs and missions-that shouldnt be imposed or predetermined-so if a woman reaches a high position and gain better money her husband shouldnt be jealous or envious but rather he believes in his woman and believes that it was Gods gift and provision for her..and the same for women..and it applies for the whole community to get the people rid of negative feelings like jealousy and teaches them to thank god and be grateful for what they have,and to ask him from his favors instead of wishing to see people deprived or lower than them..

God is the knowledgeable...
Thank you farida.. peace

siki

After going through women's posts in this thread, I understand as to why did God declare Rijjal as head of the family.

(By the way there couldn't be a better explaination than Ghamdi's , posted by Raja and moreover, I appreciate that Raja had the integrity to declare it as Ghamdi's)

Jaa!!! and ask your Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to help you prepare a reply for your next post.

farida,

This was very arrogant and rude, Not expected of you.

Elke

Yes farida, only men are allowed to be arrogant and rude !

huruf

After going through women's posts in this thread, I understand as to why did God declare Rijjal as head of the family.

Could you please post where is such declaration.

Salaam

Raj-ah

Salaam Siki,
and Thanks!

farida

Salaam,
What do you mean by "one of them"? Do you mean those learned women who can detect misleading interpretations of the Qur'an and are not leaning on men/mullah/Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to explain the Qur'an to them?

If you call yourself learned then I doubt the credibility of the school in which you ever went to.

Quote
Not want to learn, share and discuss but want to debate, Ok Fari
See your own reflection there, It's you who is unwilling to learn and share, sister Hurufs excellent and unbiased interpretation of you simply ignored it because in your immature manner you refuse to acknowledge what Allah says in the Qur'an, like Brahmin Hindus you would rather take the twisted version to make you feel superior about yourself as the preferred gender.
6139. They say "What is in the wombs of such and such cattle is specially reserved for our men, and forbidden to our women; but if it is still-born, then all have share therein. For their attribution (to Allah), He will soon punish them for He is full of wisdom and knowledge.

don't try to drag others in this. Let us see how "learned" you are on your own??

farida

Quote
We discuss it in deatail! in my next post
Jaa!!! and ask your Javed Ahmed Ghamidi sahib to help you prepare a reply for your next post.
NO! I have no desire to debate with those who do not have even have the manners to address women properly. Ok
May Allah help you to increase your knowledge for your own benefit.

Ignorance is tolerable but arrogance is not, you are an ignorant arrogant, dangerous for your husband and family, I am sure my sixth sense tells me if you were married you are divorced now and if you are not married yet may Allah help you!

See I went to Ghamidi sahib, and he told me "whenever you want to convey the message of Quran to some one be polite, most of the women in our society are not happy with men, because of the treatment of women by men against the teachings of Quran and Islamic shariah. Never mind whatever she calls me or thinks about me, her attributes are with her and mine with me; but we have a job to convey, the understanding of Quran.

farida

NO! I have no desire to debate with those who do not have even have the manners to address women properly. Ok

Oh! so women are something special or are they superior to man or inferior to man?
because if they are equal to man than a "learned" person like you would had not written that "...... who do not have even the manners to address women properly".

It is not over yet.

farida

Yes farida, only men are allowed to be arrogant and rude !

Absolutely!!!
Siki conveniently ignored the sstatement of Ra-jah, who started the insults. Siki lives in Pakistan and knows very well that remark "Ok Fari " was derogatory, yet he encourged Ra-jah to post an even ruder reply to me.
How small minded to be bickring like this and then go on to claim we have a job to convey, the understanding of Quran.
Siki has been appreciative of brother Anwar's post in which being Qwamoon was very well explained and he needs to apply it in practice.
pr

siki

Dear sister farida.

I don't think Fari is derogatory, out here names like Farida , Farhat , Farhana etc are shortened affectionately to Fari, and you know it very well , and i am quite sure that most of your dear and close ones must be addressing you such, exactly as my name Sikandar is shortened to siki and that's perfectly OK.

But Rajah!

Remember,

You cant take any such liberties , when you are daggers drawn with anyone, specially a woman , and particularly with an intelligent one.

siki

progod

Siki has been appreciative of brother Anwar's post in which being Qwamoon was very well explained and he needs to apply it in practice.

Peace,

I hope the 'he' doesn't refer to me. I don't remember arguing with anyone here and I have been inactive for a few days now.

Godbless,
Anwar