Unlettered/Gentile/Ummi prophet, who was He, Moses?

unknownuser

Salaams All,

Please read before taking part, Thanks.

007.155
YUSUFALI And Moses chose seventy of his people for Our place of meeting when they were seized with violent quaking, he prayed "O my Lord! if it had been Thy will Thou couldst have destroyed, long before, both them and me wouldst Thou destroy us for the deeds of the foolish ones among us? this is no more than Thy trial by it Thou causest whom Thou wilt to stray, and Thou leadest whom Thou wilt into the right path. Thou art our Protector so forgive us and give us Thy mercy; for Thou art the best of those who forgive.
007.156
YUSUFALI "And ordain for us that which is good, in this life and in the Hereafter for we have turned unto Thee." He said "With My punishment I visit whom I will; but My mercy extendeth to all things. That (mercy) I shall ordain for those who do right, and practise regular charity, and those who believe in Our signs;-
007.157
YUSUFALI "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."
007.158
YUSUFALI Say "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth there is no god but He it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words follow him that (so) ye may be guided."
007.159
YUSUFALI Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth.

Moses,Moses and Moses! No?

hmm

Gods Blessings.

Cushan

Hm, I've never heard that theory before. That's interesting.

IronSky

Peace to all,

Ive been thinking lately about God and how he has communicated to us throught his messengers, there is always only one message from God he sends through different prophets, when Moses was given the law he also spoke of another messenger coming after him, then jesus brought the same message and said he confirms the scripture before him by bringing his gospel, and that he has not changed the law at all but has only come to fulfill it, and then he too speaks of another messenger to come after him, or the paraclete/ advocate, whom Jesus says will fulfill all truth and finalize the message that he brought, so then Mohammad comes with the Quran and it says it is the confirmation of the messages before it, and indeed it is, so each in the past confirms what will come, and what has come confirms what was in the past, with Mohammad and the Quran being the perfect and final protected message to all mankind. So, I think that when Jesus says in the gospel that he will return someday and be with us even unto the end of time, he is not speaking about his body coming back and judging us all as some God like deity, what he is saying is that he brought the word from God, he confirmed the word of the past from moses, and he will tell us all of a future word from God that confirms them all, which id the Quran, so the Quran is the return of jesus (the word of GOd) that judges us in all truth and with justice forever, just as jesus said he would, it was the word of God that he embodied while he was here on earth, and now that he has died and gone, his return is the word of God embodied for all time in the Quran. What do you think of this idea?

Kurt

Pseudo

Peace,

007.158
YUSUFALI Say "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth there is no god but He it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words follow him that (so) ye may be guided."
007.159
YUSUFALI Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth.

Moses,Moses and Moses! No?

NO!

To whom is "SAY" being addressed?

Munzir

The "unlettered" prophet you are referring to is no one else other than Muhammad ofcourse. Moses was brought up in the royal household of the then Pharaoh and he was probably lettered as he held high posts in Pharaohs regime. The word "unlettered" is a mistranslation, it seems, according to the essence of the scripture. The correct word here is gentile. And Moses is no gentile since he belonged to the Hebrews who were possesors of the scripture.

Munzir

And the prophet Jesus was send to give the Gospel the good news. And what is the good news; the advent of a new messenger, a gentile prophet from among the brothers of Moses who would resemble Moses much. And who in history resembles Moses much. None other than Muhammad whom our learned translators have mistranslated the word "Ummiy" to mean as "unlettred", which corrrectly should be rendred as "gentile", someone who is not from among those who were given the scripture before. peace

unknownuser

Peace,

NO!

To whom is "SAY" being addressed?

To Moses! - i think.

Look at all the ayah's surrounding they are all about Moses and his people arn't they? He got inspiration and could hear Allah.

unknownuser

And the prophet Jesus was send to give the Gospel the good news. And what is the good news; the advent of a new messenger, a gentile prophet from among the brothers of Moses who would resemble Moses much. And who in history resembles Moses much. None other than Muhammad whom our learned translators have mistranslated the word "Ummiy" to mean as "unlettred", which corrrectly should be rendred as "gentile", someone who is not from among those who were given the scripture before. peace

Moses was Ummi as he lived his life with pharoe , he never new Godly ways? - i think.

And when and how did he learn Gods ways?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7742.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11461.0

And he did go back to them after a long long time, living in the pharoes palace.

622
It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlearned a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;-

I think.

peace

Pseudo

To Moses! - i think.

Then think who is messenger of Quran sent to all men/humanity?

007.158
YUSUFALI Say "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah

Look at all the ayah's surrounding they are all about Moses and his people arn't they?

Yes, how prior events and guidance are conveyed via 100s of ?qul? or say all address the same messenger

http//www.islam-muslims.org/quran/47/2/

Pseudo

so the Quran is the return of jesus (the word of GOd) that judges us in all truth and with justice forever, just as jesus said he would, it was the word of God that he embodied while he was here on earth, and now that he has died and gone, his return is the word of God embodied for all time in the Quran. What do you think of this idea?

Yes, Quran confirms and contains within it the true Torah and Injeel.

unknownuser

Then think who is messenger of Quran sent to all men/humanity?

007.158
YUSUFALI Say "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah

2716
And Solomon was David's heir. He said "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"

Look here solomon is being sent to all men........................look at the Arabic, and not what they have translate it to.

Yes, how prior events and guidance are conveyed via 100s of ?qul? or say all address the same messenger

http//www.islam-muslims.org/quran/47/2/

"Say"- addresses different people at different times in the quran, we have to look to who is in the context - i think.

Salaam.

Pseudo

2716
And Solomon was David's heir. He said "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"

Look here solomon is being sent to all men........................look at the Arabic, and not what they have translate it to.

Who said he said?

To all men, really?
The Arabic can be twisted same as translations; correct meaning does not contradict.

Read Surah "in context" which begins

Ta-seen, these are verses the Quran?s and book clear
Guidance and good news to the believers

Who is relaying this information?

"Say"- addresses different people at different times in the quran, we have to look to who is in the context - i think.

Yes, think find one qul (not qala) not addressing the same messenger of Quran.

Peace

unknownuser

Who said he said?

To all men, really?
The Arabic can be twisted same as translations; correct meaning does not contradict.

Read Surah "in context" which begins

Ta-seen, these are verses the Quran?s and book clear
Guidance and good news to the believers

Who is relaying this information?

Yes, think find one qul (not qala) not addressing the same messenger of Quran.

Peace

Of course solomon is saying this?

2716
And Solomon was David's heir. He said "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"

Isn't that how you see it?

If not who do you say is saying it? nope

ya ayyuha alnnasu=ya ayyuha alnnasu= "O ye people" and this is the same in both ayah's 2716 and 7158 ??

hypno

Yes, think find one qul (not qala) not addressing the same messenger of Quran.

i believe most are addressing different people at different times.........i have given you one above 7158! i am almost 100% sure.?

Are you?

Pseudo

Of course solomon is saying this?

2716
And Solomon was David's heir. He said "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"

Isn't that how you see it?

Question was not what he said rather to whom was the recital recited which tells you he said this?

ya ayyuha alnnasu=ya ayyuha alnnasu= "O ye people" and this is the same in both ayah's 2716 and 7158 ??

i believe most are addressing different people at different times.........i have given you one above 7158! i am almost 100% sure.?

Are you?

I am 100% sure they are not the same

waqala ya ayyuha alnnasu
2716 and he said "O, you the people

Qul ya ayyuha alnnasu
7158 Say ?O, you the people

7158 is a command to ?say?
2716 is a narration what was said

The messenger of Quran is told to relay the stories of prior events and/or to give examples/guidance.

unknownuser

Question was not what he said rather to whom was the recital recited which tells you he said this?

can you tell us then to whom was the recital recited and by whom. Thanks.

I am 100% sure they are not the same

waqala ya ayyuha alnnasu
2716 and he said "O, you the people

Qul ya ayyuha alnnasu
7158 Say ?O, you the people

7158 is a command to ?say?
2716 is a narration what was said

The messenger of Quran is told to relay the stories of prior events and/or to give examples/guidance.

Please correct me if i am wrong but i thought you was saying that the prophet of the quran was sent to all mankind while the rest of the prophets weren't.

Then think who is messenger of Quran sent to all men/humanity?

2716 and 7158 i thought showed that different messengers where sent to men everywhere unless we say that in both cases its the same person speaking or something like that.

peace

Pseudo

can you tell us then to whom was the recital recited and by whom. Thanks.

to whom was the recital recited
http//www.islam-muslims.org/quran/47/2

and by whom
http//www.islam-muslims.org/quran/2/97

Please correct me if i am wrong but i thought you was saying that the prophet of the quran was sent to all mankind while the rest of the prophets weren't.

2716 and 7158 i thought showed that different messengers where sent to men everywhere unless we say that in both cases its the same person speaking or something like that.

As stated, every ?say? in Quran is consistently addressed to the same last prophet

http//www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=qul&chapter=&translator=6&search=1&start=0&records_display=100&search_word=exact

7158 Say "O, you the people, I am God's messenger to you all/all together

peace

unknownuser

to whom was the recital recited
http//www.islam-muslims.org/quran/47/2

and by whom
http//www.islam-muslims.org/quran/2/97

As stated, every ?say? in Quran is consistently addressed to the same last prophet

http//www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=qul&chapter=&translator=6&search=1&start=0&records_display=100&search_word=exact

7158 Say "O, you the people, I am God's messenger to you all/all together

peace

Transliteration Qul man kana AAaduwwan lijibreela fa-innahu nazzalahu AAala qalbika bi-ithni Allahi musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi wahudan wabushra lilmu/mineena

297 Say "Who was an enemy to Gabriel , so that he descended it on your heart/mind with God's permission, confirming to what (is) between his hands, and (a) guidance and a good news to the believers."

say "HE descended it on your heart....................confirming what between HIS hands...."

on your heart......(but).....HIS hands

"your" and "his"

so Gabriel descends it to peoples heart what is between Gabriels or the prophets hands.

isn't that what is implied?

God Bless.

Pseudo

How can Gabriel be saying "say" when the same ayah is also saying "HE descended it"

and by whom
http//www.islam-muslims.org/quran/2/97

If you are content that "say" is addressed to the last prophet, open a different thread as to transmission.

Peace

unknownuser

If you are content that "say" is addressed to the last prophet, open a different thread as to transmission.

Peace

sorry i edited when you was replying, may be you could answer it again.

Thanks.

Pseudo

sorry i edited when you was replying, may be you could answer it again.

Thanks.

Sure thing.

297 Say "Who was an enemy to Gabriel, so that he descended it on your heart/mind with God's permission, confirming to what (is) between his hands, and (a) guidance and a good news to the believers."

Say is addressed to last prophet (clear)
Transmission medium is through Gabriel to the prophet?s mind with God?s permission (clear)
Confirming to what between his hands (not clear)
Guidance and good news to the believers (clear)

31-3
Alif-lam-meem

Allahu la ilaha illa huwa alhayyu alqayyoomu
God, no God except He, the alive, the of no beginning and self sufficient.

Nazzala AAalayka alkitaba bialhaqqi musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi waanzala alttawrata waal-injeel
He descended on you The Book with the truth, confirming to what (is) between His hands, and He descended the Torah and the Injeel.

Now clear ?between His hands? is non literal meaning from God; cross reference for consistency

http//www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=lima+bayna+yadayhi&translator=6&search=1&start=0

Peace