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  4. How does one seek the help?

How does one seek the help?

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  • U Offline
    U Offline
    unknownuser
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Salaams All,

    how does one seek the help- about anything?

    245
    Nay, seek (Allah's) help with patient perseverance and/ salawaat (prayer?) It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a lowly spirit,-

    What does one tell his/her children - on how to seek help?

    Salaams.

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      SubmitterToGOD
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      peace be upon you,

      through patience and Salat

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      • D Offline
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        drfazl
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Salaams All,

        how does one seek the help- about anything?

        What does one tell his/her children - on how to seek help?

        Salaams.

        2 45 Nay, seek (Allah's) help with patient perseverance and/ salawaat (prayer?) It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a lowly spirit,-

        Let us see the same ayat from a different stage of understanding, thus

        2 45 Seek help in patience and in righteousness; and it is indeed hard but for the pious ones.

        The physical salat is the stumbling block! If salat is understood as one's performance and actions from submitting his will to the righteousness in his mind, commanded by his soul, then one's belief in the unseen is strengthened. This strengthened belief is the only way to inherit the help of Allah.

        Peace

        .

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          God_Within
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Peace be upon you,

          Help is achieved through patience and programming of the subconcious(salaat). programing of the Nafs(subconcious) is the key to life. God says that he who purifies it succeeds and he who corrupts it fails, period.

          2 45 Seek help in patience and in righteousness; and it is indeed hard but for the pious ones.

          God did not use the word for righteousness in this verse, so that is clearly incorrect, and can be shown to be incorrect by using "righteousness" in all the salaat verses. It does not fit. Righteousness is an EFFECT of proper programming of the subconcious. When you properly plant the seed, your subconcious will ORDER YOU properly. Just as it did for Shuib shich is why his people said

          (1187) "O Shuiab, does your salaat ORDER YOU that we leave/discard what our fathers serve, or that we do with our properties/wealths/possessions what we want, that you, you are the clement , the correctly/rightly guided."

          Yes! the NAFS that each of us has must be programmed, that is the job we are here to do, those who purify it succeed, those who corrupt it fail.

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            drfazl
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Peace be upon you,

            Help is achieved through patience and programming of the subconcious(salaat). programing of the Nafs(subconcious) is the key to life. God says that he who purifies it succeeds and he who corrupts it fails, period.

            Programming of the subconscious is only possible with Righteousness, the Straight Path.

            Righteousness is an EFFECT of proper programming of the subconcious. When you properly plant the seed, your subconcious will ORDER YOU properly.

            Programming with Righteousness results in THE best EFFECT and PRODUCE not vice versa.

            Peace.

            .

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            • U Offline
              U Offline
              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Hi Drfazl, God within, All,

              WITHOUT WASTING TOO MUCH OF MY TIME HERE IS SOME LIGHT.

              Of course prayers are a good thing, but Salaat is not prayers.

              490
              Except those who (yasilloon) JOIN a group??..

              One can only join a group if they accept their counsel. When i joined Free-minds - i had to accept their conditions/ counsel, like evrybody else, and then i was allowed to join . yes

              477
              Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish (alsalaat) counsel and spend in regular charity?.......

              WE all know it is better to discuss and sought out our differences rather then take up arms, don't you agree?
              But of course if the discussions arn't fruitful then we are allowed to take up arms......as the Ayah says.

              4102
              When thou (O Messenger) art with them, and standest to counsel them , Let one party of them stand up (for counsel) with, Taking their arms with them When they finish their salutations, let them Take their position in the rear. And let the other party come up which hath not yet taken counsel - and let them counsel with thee, Taking all precaution, and bearing arms??..

              What do armies do in times of war they but discuss different option available to overcome the enemy, they counsel and decide on the best options available.

              peace

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              • G Offline
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                God_Within
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Peace be upon you Dr Fazl,

                Programming of the subconscious is only possible with Righteousness, the Straight Path.

                Programming with Righteousness results in THE best EFFECT and PRODUCE not vice versa.

                You cannot "program with righteousness"...what you are doing is putting in inFORMation. If a person is already RIGHTEOUS, all they are going to be doing is reinforcing that righteousness, but the message is needed for those who are not RIGHTEOUS. For example, there are verses where the criminal is held until they "maintain programming and bring forth purification" ....zakaat, the effect, is righteousness, the purification. The key ingrediant is HUMBLENESS.

                (245) And seek help with the patience and the programming/conditioning, and that it truly is a burden except on the humble.

                You see, even the criminal knows the correct information, they KNOW what is right or wrong, SALAAT(programming) is taking action on that information, programming it into the subconcious so that you start to ACT that way.

                Lets take an example of someone who wants to stop eating fried foods and junk food and loose weight, they KNOW that they are suppossed to eat healthy and exercise, but thier subconcious pushes them to keep eating junk and sit around and watch TV. If they were to get thier mind to the position where the sun and moon merge (meditation state) and begin sowing the correct thoughts and images, then there subconcious will begin to give them the right thoughts when they are at that crossroad. But if you are arrogant and not humble, if you take salaat as amusement, then you will fail.

                Of course there are people who use strog emotion(another trance) to conquer obesity, but just a different method and sometimes unhealthy, for example, you are ANGRY at your mate because they left you and you want to prove to them how good you look, so you diet and workout using that ANGER to motivate you, but ANGER is stress, and stress kills.

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                  God_Within
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Peace be upon you SImple,

                  Of course prayers are a good thing, but Salaat is not prayers.

                  COrrect, prayer is du'a, a different word.

                  490
                  Except those who (yasilloon) JOIN a group??..

                  One can only join a group if they accept their counsel. When i joined Free-minds - i had to accept their conditions/ counsel, like evrybody else, and then i was allowed to join .

                  477
                  Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish (alsalaat) counsel and spend in regular charity?.......

                  WE all know it is better to discuss and sought out our differences rather then take up arms, don't you agree?
                  But of course if the discussions arn't fruitful then we are allowed to take up arms......as the Ayah says.

                  4102
                  When thou (O Messenger) art with them, and standest to counsel them , Let one party of them stand up (for counsel) with, Taking their arms with them When they finish their salutations, let them Take their position in the rear. And let the other party come up which hath not yet taken counsel - and let them counsel with thee, Taking all precaution, and bearing arms??..

                  What do armies do in times of war they but discuss different option available to overcome the enemy, they counsel and decide on the best options available.

                  So, you are saying that salaat = counsel? If the recipient of that council is your NAFS, then YES, I agree, that is what programming is )

                  I look foward to your response

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                  • U Offline
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                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Peace be upon you SImple,

                    COrrect, prayer is du'a, a different word.

                    So, you are saying that salaat = counsel? If the recipient of that council is your NAFS, then YES, I agree, that is what programming is o)

                    I look foward to your response

                    Salaams God Within,

                    Counsel or blessings from Allah for men (gut feelings- maybe!)

                    2157
                    They are those on whom (Descend)(Salawat) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.

                    People who establish counsel.

                    555
                    Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular (alsalata)counsel and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

                    People who observe counsel, what they have agreed to are brother.

                    911
                    But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.

                    Believers always observe counsel- what they have agreed to.

                    971
                    The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil they observe regular (alssalat) counsel, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise

                    The messengers counsel is valued ?as he knows a great deal more.

                    999
                    ???obtaining the counsel of the Messenger??.

                    1431
                    Speak to my servants who have believed, that they may establish regular counsel, and spend (in charity) out of the sustenance we have given them, secretly and openly, before the coming of a Day in which there will be neither mutual bargaining nor befriendin

                    People who forgo advice of the right minded/ knowledgable people are bound to go down hill to destruction.

                    1959
                    But after them there followed a posterity who neglected counsel and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction

                    3356
                    Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect

                    Allah sends Advice/counsel to his messengers and you are told to do likewise , tell him of things/News he may be unaware of which may benefit him or others.

                    peace

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                    • U Offline
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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      I'm neutral on this but I think this verse contains a clue

                      017.110
                      Say Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent Allah; whichever you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these.

                      I don't know how you would implement it if salat=conditioning but if salat=counsel then it's easy to see. I think I've said this before but when one speaks with a dominant tone the reaction in the other person is either to feel inferior or get emotionally worked up. With a submissive tone, the other feels superior and/or gives less weight to what is being said. When speaking with an assertive tone, both people feel equal and the point gets across far better because it isn't emotionally clouded.

                      Good conditioning and good counsel are necessary in life regardless of what salat means in the end. I think I lean more towards the "counsel" side of things because slw also implies bonding/connecting. With that middle tone, one has a lot more success in connecting with other people. With a good choice of words and tonality it's easy to get whatever you like out of other people. That can be used for good or bad.

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                        drfazl
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Peace be upon you Dr Fazl,

                        You cannot "program with righteousness"...what you are doing is putting in inFORMation. If a person is already RIGHTEOUS, all they are going to be doing is reinforcing that righteousness, but the message is needed for those who are not RIGHTEOUS. For example, there are verses where the criminal is held until they "maintain programming and bring forth purification" ....zakaat, the effect, is righteousness, the purification. The key ingrediant is HUMBLENESS.

                        Brother,

                        When you say 'if a person is already righteous ... What is Righteousness? And then again try to get at program with righteousness. Can you define righteousness for our better understanding and posting?

                        You see, even the criminal knows the correct information, they KNOW what is right or wrong, SALAAT(programming) is taking action on that information, programming it into the subconcious so that you start to ACT that way.

                        What is programming? Everybody is righteous about the principles of life at birth with their purity of Soul.

                        Regards,

                        .

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                          God_Within
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Peace be upon you Simple,

                          Salaams God Within,

                          Counsel or blessings from Allah for men (gut feelings- maybe!)

                          2157
                          They are those on whom (Descend)(Salawat) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.
                          People who establish counsel.

                          I want to first start off by saying that you and I are not far off...but "counsel" by itself is just one aspect of this concept. What we are dealing with is your ability to get into a RECEPTIVE STATE of BEING...receptive to what? Counsel...GOD's COUNSEL from within through It's "angels". All good is from God..if someone smokes and another counsels them on not smoking and gives them the biological laws as to why they shouldnt smoke, that is from God through man(the vehicle). But that person has to be RECEPTIVE(another aspect).

                          But you cannot establish/maintain counsel, you establish and maintain programming of your subconcious WITH the correct counsel. In fact, the word "quran" is the concept under which counsel is placed. When you bring them the counsel they say "bring us counsel other than this!" They cant handle the truth! )

                          555
                          Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular (alsalata)counsel and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

                          People who observe counsel, what they have agreed to are brother.

                          People are your real friends because they all PROGRAM thier behavior to be righteous! WHat does establish regular counsel mean? Means they go around counseling? While we are indeed messengers delivering the message to others, or ULTIMATE OBJECTIVE is to take proper counsel(quran) and program our NAFS..because he who purifies it succeeeds and he who corrupts it fails!

                          "...read the quran(counsel) and maintain the programming and briing forth purification.."

                          911
                          But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.

                          Believers always observe counsel- what they have agreed to.

                          Yes we observe counsel, but observing counel is not enough, we have to REPEATEDLY program it into our NAFS, REPEATEDLY, that is why help comes through PATIENCE and salaat, because it takes time to make the counsel STICK in our subconcious through the process of programming(salaat).

                          971
                          The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil they observe regular (alssalat) counsel, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise

                          The messengers counsel is valued ?as he knows a great deal more.

                          Where do you get the word "observe"from? It is maintain salaat, that is they maintain the tool of programming the Nafs because they know the ultimate goal is purification of the Nafs(subconcious mind). How can one "observe regular counsel"? What does that mean?

                          999
                          ???obtaining the counsel of the Messenger??.

                          Mankind has ALWAYS gotten counsel...Millions of people are packed into the Masjids, CHurches, Synagogues, Temples, school rooms, etc. They are always getting councel....but what seperates them from the true believers are those who take the correct counsel(quran) and PROGRAM IT INTO THIER SPIRITS/SUBCONCIOUS...this is salaat! Millions obtain the counsel, what you want is to obtain the messenger proggramming, THAT which sticks in your memory/mind!

                          1431
                          Speak to my servants who have believed, that they may establish regular counsel, and spend (in charity) out of the sustenance we have given them, secretly and openly, before the coming of a Day in which there will be neither mutual bargaining nor befriendin

                          People who forgo advice of the right minded/ knowledgable people are bound to go down hill to destruction.

                          The first part says to YOU "speak to my servants"....THAT is the counsel...then it says "that they may maintain programming...." You are correct that we must heed correct counsel, but you have the concepts SLIGHTLY mislplaced.

                          1959
                          But after them there followed a posterity who neglected counsel and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction

                          They neglected to PROGRAM thier Nafs....it is your NAFS that orders your actions! It is your subconcious that makes you life they way it is. I cannot stress the following enough...the Nafs, he who purifies it succeeds, he who corrupts it fails! The Nafs is like a ball of clay that must be formed to be successful.

                          3356
                          Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect

                          Allah sends Advice/counsel to his messengers and you are told to do likewise , tell him of things/News he may be unaware of which may benefit him or others.

                          3356 That truly God and His controlling forces program the prophet. You, you those who believed, program him (the prophet) and "great greetings?".

                          Not sure of the end of the verse, but basically this verse is giving us wisdom on the stage of a persons spiritual growth where they no longer have to look outside for the counsel, they get it from intuition. Is that not what a prophet is? One who intuits the counsel(quran)? It is God and Its forces that program this type of person who reaches this level. The end of the verse is telling us to basically strive to get to that level. To "program him" is to use that image as a model for your programming.

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                            God_Within
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Peace be upon you OPF,

                            017.110
                            Say Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent Allah; whichever you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these.

                            I don't know how you would implement it if salat=conditioning but if salat=counsel then it's easy to see. I think I've said this before but when one speaks with a dominant tone the reaction in the other person is either to feel inferior or get emotionally worked up. With a submissive tone, the other feels superior and/or gives less weight to what is being said. When speaking with an assertive tone, both people feel equal and the point gets across far better because it isn't emotionally clouded.

                            Good conditioning and good counsel are necessary in life regardless of what salat means in the end. I think I lean more towards the "counsel" side of things because slw also implies bonding/connecting. With that middle tone, one has a lot more success in connecting with other people. With a good choice of words and tonality it's easy to get whatever you like out of other people. That can be used for good or bad.

                            While your points are logical in themselves...you error is in your translation of the verse, it is not talking about VOICE TONE...the verse correctly translates as;

                            17110 Say "Call God, or call the merciful, whichever you call, so for Him (are) the names the best/most beautiful (the good names), and do not publicize with your programming, and do not hide with it, but wish/desire between that a way/method."

                            It is speaking about to publicizing nor hiding it...not about saying something out loud or quiet.

                            Counsel will seem to fit in a lot of the verses because it is the proper counsel that we are programming(salaat) into our Nafs. We just have to put each piece in its correct place.

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                              God_Within
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Peace be upon you,

                              Can you define righteousness for our better understanding and posting?

                              2177
                              But it is righteousness -
                              To believe in The God
                              And the Ending time (effects of causes)
                              And the controlling forces
                              And the Book
                              And the Messengers;
                              To spend of your substance out of love for Him
                              For your kin
                              For orphans
                              For the needy
                              For the wayfarer
                              For those who ask,
                              And for the ransom of slaves;
                              And maintains the programming
                              And brings forth purification (of the nafs...the GOAL!);
                              To fulfil the contracts which you have made;
                              And to be firm and patient in pain (or suffering) and adversity
                              And throughout all periods of panic.
                              Such are the people of truth the (God-conscious).

                              What is programming? Everybody is righteous about the principles of life at birth with their purity of Soul.

                              Is there something in your life that you KNOW you should change but have difficulty? Maybe you want to eat healthy but as soon as you pass McDonalds and smell those fries you just have to have them! Your NAFScommands you to go ahead and get some fries, the whole time the "I" within you is saying, I know I shouldnt be doing this! I know I shouldnt be doing this! I know I shouldnt be doing this! Do you know what I mean? Have you not experienced this all through life with different challenges? I know I should be faithful o my wife but...I know I shouldnt steal this printer paper from my job but....i know I should give that poor man this extra change in my pocket but...I know I shouldnt smoke cigarettes anymore but...etc etc

                              So you ask, what is programming? How many commercials are there about smoking? How many people come to you (not you in particular) and tel you smoking is bad you shoucl give it up? Is there not COUNSEL on the pack of cigarrettes ITSELF! WARNING!!! THIS *&%^ WIL KILL YOU!!! ;D But dont people...after recieving that counsel still smoke? According the THIS COUNSEL(quran)...Salaat PREVENTS evil deeds.....let me repeat...salaat PREVENTS evil deeds! Why do people keep smoking after getting a lifetime of "counsel"? You see how by "reading the book", that is looking at life, we can verify the right and wrong position. It is not until that person PROGRAMS THIER NAFS that they change thier behavior. And this all has to do with your states of receptivity (trance)...we go in and out of trance everyday ....daydreaming, high emotions, etc. This is why some people stop without Meditating (best meas of salaat)...but that type of life is hit or miss...God does not want us to make life hit or miss, God wants us to take control of the salaat!

                              Woe to those who program but are HEEDLESS of thier programming!!! Does that verse make more sense now? )

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                                God_Within
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Peace be upon you ,

                                Salaat is a concept that mostly corresponds to TRANCE(trancending, transformation, etc), RECEPTIVITY, RELAXATION, MEMORY, LEARNING, FOLLOWING, etc

                                It is associated with ancient traditions under the names like Auset (Kamitic tradition), Yemaya (Yoruba tradition), Dhumavati (Indus Kush tradition), Moon (astrology)etc

                                Its correspondences in the book of life are Women, Children, Nurses, pregnancy, etc

                                It also corresponds to the second hexagram of the ancient I Ching of China. This hexagram is called "KHUN - The Receptive"

                                WHat I wanted to point out was that the Image of KHUN "the receptive" is - "the mare doesnt lead the pack of horses, she FOLLOWS".

                                As I read that this morning, it made me think of one of the meanings of "S-L-W" (following closely, as the second horse in a race)

                                I just wanted to give food for thouught to those of you who dont rely only on the 144 chapter text for enlightenment of God's Book(life).

                                Remember

                                "follow that which has descended upon you AND THOSE BEFORE YOU"

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                                  U Offline
                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Peace be upon you,

                                  2177
                                  But it is righteousness -
                                  To believe in The God
                                  And the Ending time (effects of causes)
                                  And the controlling forces
                                  And the Book
                                  And the Messengers;
                                  To spend of your substance out of love for Him
                                  For your kin
                                  For orphans
                                  For the needy
                                  For the wayfarer
                                  For those who ask,
                                  And for the ransom of slaves;
                                  And maintains the programming
                                  And brings forth purification (of the nafs...the GOAL!);
                                  To fulfil the contracts which you have made;
                                  And to be firm and patient in pain (or suffering) and adversity
                                  And throughout all periods of panic.
                                  Such are the people of truth the (God-conscious).

                                  Is there something in your life that you KNOW you should change but have difficulty? Maybe you want to eat healthy but as soon as you pass McDonalds and smell those fries you just have to have them! Your NAFScommands you to go ahead and get some fries, the whole time the "I" within you is saying, I know I shouldnt be doing this! I know I shouldnt be doing this! I know I shouldnt be doing this! Do you know what I mean? Have you not experienced this all through life with different challenges? I know I should be faithful o my wife but...I know I shouldnt steal this printer paper from my job but....i know I should give that poor man this extra change in my pocket but...I know I shouldnt smoke cigarettes anymore but...etc etc

                                  So you ask, what is programming? How many commercials are there about smoking? How many people come to you (not you in particular) and tel you smoking is bad you shoucl give it up? Is there not COUNSEL on the pack of cigarrettes ITSELF! WARNING!!! THIS *&%^ WIL KILL YOU!!! ;D But dont people...after recieving that counsel still smoke? According the THIS COUNSEL(quran)...Salaat PREVENTS evil deeds.....let me repeat...salaat PREVENTS evil deeds! Why do people keep smoking after getting a lifetime of "counsel"? You see how by "reading the book", that is looking at life, we can verify the right and wrong position. It is not until that person PROGRAMS THIER NAFS that they change thier behavior. And this all has to do with your states of receptivity (trance)...we go in and out of trance everyday ....daydreaming, high emotions, etc. This is why some people stop without Meditating (best meas of salaat)...but that type of life is hit or miss...God does not want us to make life hit or miss, God wants us to take control of the salaat!

                                  Woe to those who program but are HEEDLESS of thier programming!!! Does that verse make more sense now? )

                                  It is very interesting the human subconscious.

                                  What i have learnt over the years is that ;

                                  1. only thing that changes the subconscous is either taking a part of the brain out or add another part to it.
                                  2. or the external forces or environment or reality, the ups and downs in your life which causes your belief to change or what you believe about a certain thing.

                                  There isn't another way you can reprogram your subconscious- that i have come accross.

                                  considering 2.
                                  So if the subconscious cannot be changed by you unless you go through such a case as to change your belief
                                  then what is the next best thing.

                                  If one cannot make him or herself, by programing into Einstein or Bill Gates then when you want to do something which needs an answer from the knowledge they have - take their counsel, But Einstein is dead so read his Manuals e.t.c

                                  Counsel lets you and me who may be crooks and cons make use of the knowledge of the whole of mankind even though mine and your subconscious are crooked and will never give us the results we seek but we can get them from the subconscious of Einstein and Bill.

                                  Simerlarly if you want the answers from the subconscious of a messenger then read his manual - as we can never be one as we havn't gone through their lifestyles to make our subconscious like theirs, just see what Moses went through!

                                  Counsel indeed is a wonderful thing, just think about the internet vow!

                                  handshake

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                                    God_Within
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Peace be upon you Simple,

                                    What i have learnt over the years is that ;

                                    1. only thing that changes the subconscous is either taking a part of the brain out or add another part to it.

                                    As you are pondering #1, keep in mind that most humans only use a very small portion of the brain, what is the rest for? Can it be awakened?

                                    1. or the external forces or environment or reality, the ups and downs in your life which causes your belief to change or what you believe about a certain thing.

                                    Everyting that you experience while in a state of trance changes your subconcious. I am not on here long for tonight but we shall continue this discussion soon, I will try to share what I have learned, I think you will find it very interesting and will help you to see and VERIFY what I am saying.

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                                      unknownuser
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Peace be upon you Simple,

                                      As you are pondering #1, keep in mind that most humans only use a very small portion of the brain, what is the rest for? Can it be awakened?

                                      Everyting that you experience while in a state of trance changes your subconcious. I am not on here long for tonight but we shall continue this discussion soon, I will try to share what I have learned, I think you will find it very interesting and will help you to see and VERIFY what I am saying.

                                      Salaams God within,

                                      karma
                                      The actions of a person in this life or earlier lives influence their future.

                                      And the effects of Trance

                                      http//www.thehindubusinessline.com/life/2006/06/09/stories/2006060900150300.htm

                                      http//everything2.com/index.pl?node=Hypnosis

                                      ?Hypnosis can't make you do anything you don't want to.?

                                      And you only do what you believe/ have belief in and that comes to us in our everyday struggle and is what produces your/our output in life.

                                      If indeed trances where a tool to change the world the hindues would indeed be rulling the world ? just look at their state and they have been at it for thousands of years.

                                      The advancement of the early muslims and now west and all the advancing world is based on action through mutual consultation with others who know better thus producing more or better results and thus changing the state of the world.

                                      hypno

                                      Gods Blessings.

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                                        drfazl
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        God Within

                                        Peace be upon you Dr Fazl,

                                        You cannot "program with righteousness".

                                        Please give your definition of program and righteousness. So that we can see if your following translation fits in
                                        (245) And seek help with the patience and the programming/conditioning, and that it truly is a burden except on the humble.

                                        You see, even the criminal knows the correct information, they KNOW what is right or wrong, SALAAT(programming) is taking action on that information, programming it into the subconcious so that you start to ACT that way.

                                        You say even the criminals know what is right and wrong i.e. they know righteousness; but their problem is they do not program their mind with what they know of as righteousness. Believing in Righteousness is Iman i.e, strengthening Iman is programming; salat is action resulting from the program.

                                        salam

                                        .

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                                          drfazl
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Peace be upon you,

                                          2177

                                          But it is righteousness -

                                          To believe in The God
                                          And the Ending time (effects of causes)
                                          And the controlling forces
                                          And the Book
                                          And the Messengers;
                                          To spend of your substance out of love for Him
                                          For your kin
                                          For orphans
                                          For the needy
                                          For the wayfarer
                                          For those who ask,
                                          And for the ransom of slaves;
                                          And maintains the programming
                                          And brings forth purification (of the nafs...the GOAL!);
                                          To fulfil the contracts which you have made;
                                          And to be firm and patient in pain (or suffering) and adversity
                                          And throughout all periods of panic.
                                          Such are the people of truth the (God-conscious).

                                          You have rightly said Righteousness is believing or programming in the mind of the rest of the things in 2 177

                                          Is there something in your life that you KNOW you should change but have difficulty? Maybe you want to eat healthy but as soon as you pass McDonalds and smell those fries you just have to have them! Your NAFScommands you to go ahead and get some fries, the whole time the "I" within you is saying, I know I shouldnt be doing this! I know I shouldn't be doing this! I know I shouldnt be doing this!

                                          From this we know that knowing right and wrong is not righteousness but programming your mind with righteousness is what that matters.

                                          So you ask, what is programming? How many commercials are there about smoking? How many people come to you (not you in particular) and tel you smoking is bad you shoucl give it up? Is there not COUNSEL on the pack of cigarrettes ITSELF! WARNING!!! THIS *&%^ WIL KILL YOU!!! ;D.. But dont people...after recieving that counsel still smoke? According the THIS COUNSEL(quran). ..Salaat PREVENTS evil deeds.....let me repeat...salaat PREVENTS evil deeds!

                                          This is what you call as salat. You are agonistic and antagonistic.

                                          Why do people keep smoking after getting a lifetime of "counsel"? You see how by "reading the book", that is looking at life, we can verify the right and wrong position. It is not until that person PROGRAMS THIER NAFS that they change thier behavior.

                                          You mean programming with righteousness is necessary i.e. steadfastness in Iman is necessary to change the behavior which is salaat or action?

                                          Woe to those who program but are HEEDLESS of thier programming!!! Does that verse make more sense now? )

                                          Woe to those who program without righteousness in their hearts?
                                          Peace,

                                          .

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