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  4. ANGELS = ALiENS?

ANGELS = ALiENS?

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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    mujahingle
    wrote on last edited by
    #15

    i don't know how they are made, but, basing my ideas on the qur'an and on many other clues, i'm almost sure they are not from here.

    maybe they are robots.

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    • F Offline
      F Offline
      Fadhli
      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      Lol that was just based on that premise.. if that is not true, then the theory is not valid... Hehe...

      but i think different from some of your ideas, simply because i believe in the qur'an fully you argue that it's all a program, also the judgement day, heaven and hell, good and evil, etc.
      well, i think that all those things exist, we just must understand how, and believe in what we will never understand, 'cause the mind of the humans is so little and the universe is so big. but we can have it all in our hand by feeling it, and here there are the huri Wink

      you know what, i think it really does exist. But not in this space time but probably in other dimension both with a different laws of physics. I've studied some about string theory and m-theory and the existence of a hierarchy of dimensions and a membrane that walls us from other parallel universe. Up to 10+1 time dimensions and could be higher but it is just not necessary to figure that out because it's too far. We are in the 3rd dimension. This other places that has been depicted might be in another universe with a different "big bang" and with a different laws of physics.

      So what is depicted in the Quran is i believe the exact thing as the actual thing. But for us to go to hell... i think it is not necessary. Unless you choose to. Or you let God choose it for you. depends on your level of vibration and your desire.

      Alen wrote

      I don't think that angels are aliens because i can't prove it with strong evidence but i do know that angels are made of light. What kind of light, i don't know.

      I think we are made of light too. if we look at the particle closely, actually we are just a construct of particles of waves of energy. which consist of 96% of empty space if i'm not mistaken. Same construct of a light. which is energy too. Hence all comes from an energy.

      And our soul is energy too. A light being i presume. Connected to us through an unseen energy vortex in the body from a different dimension. I believe we are multidimensional being.

      As for those benevolent ETs. I believe they are a higher dimensional beings. Capable of seeing the unseen and has a close connection with the God. And also capable of shifting through dimensions and universes. Either through ships, or just manifestation of energy or just telepathic communication or channeling... Not that God is weak and need their help or something, it's just that every of those beings just knows what they should do.

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      • S Offline
        S Offline
        SubmitterToGOD
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        peace be upon you,

        this topic is weird............. nope

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        • K Offline
          K Offline
          Khalil2
          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          Salaam, everyone.

          Don't you people have anything useful to talk/discuss about? For almost 1400 years, minus a few first hundred years after revelation of our holy book, The Qur'an; this is exactly what the whole Muslim world been doing. TALKING NONSENSE & DOING NONSENSE/NOTHING, wasting time and life while the rest of the world progressing themselves and exploiting us, robbing us of our natural resources and forcing us to stay behind.

          If you are sincere Muslims, just stop all this POINTLESS, USELESS, TIME CONSUMING, GOOD FOR NOTHING, DISCUSSIONS and stick just to The Qru'an. Study it on a regular basis. Try to understand it as a WHOLE and a COHERENT message to us from our Creator Who Has sent to us for our guidance in THIS WORLD, then sincerely ask Him to guide us in His light and to His straight path. Remember in the Judgment the prophet Mohammad will complain about us, only one complaint "The messenger said. O my Lord, verily my people put this Qur'an away!"

          God Almighty Himself Directs us to just stick with the essence/mother of the book only. The allegorical/motashabihat part of The Qur'an, only God Knows about and He Explains them as He Wills through time.

          So dear brothers/sisters; Please try to stay focus, always seek refuge to Allah from the Satan the outcast. Always ask God Almighty for help and guidance.

          Know that these kinds of none essential discussions never get us anywhere. Start today renew your covenant with God and start DOING RIGHTEOUS, CONSTRUCTIVE, GOOD DEEDS according to the directions of The Qur'an to the best of our abilities. The rest is up to Him. Do not forget, it starts with Qur'anic studies on a regular basis, following the essence of The Book.

          May Allah(swt) Guides us all in His Light and Increases us our knowledge.

          Your brother, Khalil.

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          • F Offline
            F Offline
            farida
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            Salaam, everyone.

            Don't you people have anything useful to talk/discuss about? For almost 1400 years, minus a few first hundred years after revelation of our holy book, The Qur'an; this is exactly what the whole Muslim world been doing. TALKING NONSENSE & DOING NONSENSE/NOTHING, wasting time and life while the rest of the world progressing themselves and exploiting us, robbing us of our natural resources and forcing us to stay behind.

            If you are sincere Muslims, just stop all this POINTLESS, USELESS, TIME CONSUMING, GOOD FOR NOTHING, DISCUSSIONS and stick just to The Qru'an. Study it on a regular basis. Try to understand it as a WHOLE and a COHERENT message to us from our Creator Who Has sent to us for our guidance in THIS WORLD, then sincerely ask Him to guide us in His light and to His straight path. Remember in the Judgment the prophet Mohammad will complain about us, only one complaint "The messenger said. O my Lord, verily my people put this Qur'an away!"

            God Almighty Himself Directs us to just stick with the essence/mother of the book only. The allegorical/motashabihat part of The Qur'an, only God Knows about and He Explains them as He Wills through time.

            So dear brothers/sisters; Please try to stay focus, always seek refuge to Allah from the Satan the outcast. Always ask God Almighty for help and guidance.

            Know that these kinds of none essential discussions never get us anywhere. Start today renew your covenant with God and start DOING RIGHTEOUS, CONSTRUCTIVE, GOOD DEEDS according to the directions of The Qur'an to the best of our abilities. The rest is up to Him. Do not forget, it starts with Qur'anic studies on a regular basis, following the essence of The Book.

            May Allah(swt) Guides us all in His Light and Increases us our knowledge.

            Your brother, Khalil.

            Salaam brother Khalil,

            This forum is often misused by people who find it cool to have useless discussions and raise irrelevant questions to cast doubt into people?s hearts.
            Then you have extremist of all sorts who want to impose their views on others by taking advantage of the absence of the example/guidance from the prophet to create a new and alien Deen. As a result there are men who want to put women at the bottom of the pile and deprive them of all due rights/respect and then there are women who use ayahs of the Quran to exert their feminist agenda to humiliate men in order to feel liberated.

            On the political side too there are some very weird and blind discussions, which would lead to no greater good and one wonders who is actually supporting and financing this site as little is done to unite the followers of the Qur?an and much is done to divide us. May be its THE ALiENS. hmm

            Those who are bent of corrupting on this earth will face the wrath of God. yes
            peace

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              mujahingle
              wrote on last edited by
              #20

              "Seek knowledge even as far as China" - Muhammad

              sorry if someone is bothered, but i want to know The Truth. ALL THE TRUTH.

              come on brothers, do you fear The Truth? do you think that if aliens exist and they are the angels, and they are involved in the revelation, the meaning of the revelation changes? NO! in all the whole universe it's the same one there is no one but The One!

              seek knowledge even as far as space - me

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                mujahingle
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                an article by Samir Khalid Munir ([email protected])
                launched on 29th March 1999 (10th Zul Hijjah,1419) / last updated on 29th April 2004 (10th Rabi' Al-Awwal,1425).

                from http//aliens-in-quran.com/

                Introduction

                On 7th August 1996,NASA (1) scientists made an announcement that made front page headlines throughout the world.Within a Martian meteorite,they had found evidence of a microscopic lifeform that may have existed on Mars more than three billion years ago. (2) Although other studies were later published which challenged this conclusion, (3) numerous recent discoveries,for example,the discovery by the Galileo spacecraft, (4) in February 1997,of a possible red-coloured sea under the ice crust of Jupiter's moon,Europa, (5) are raising hopes that we may soon be able to get an answer to one of the oldest and most interesting questions asked by humans-"Is anyone out there,or are we alone in the universe?"

                However,it may be that none of us may live to see the day when scientists will give us a definitive answer to this question. For Muslims,that should not be a problem. We already have the answer. Although many Muslims are unaware of the fact, the Quran explicitly mentions the existence of extraterrestrial life.

                The existence of creatures of a spiritual nature,such as angels,in the universe,is accepted as a fact by all Muslims,as well as people of other religions, such as Christians.The point that generates excitement among the public,and scientists is the question of whether material lifeforms like ourselves,which can be found by science,do actually exist outside the earth. (7) The objective of this article is to present evidence from the Quran for the existence in the universe,of MATERIAL lifeforms ("Life as we know it&quot.

                "Dabbatun"

                In Sura 42,Verse 29 (4229) of the Quran,we are told, "Among His (God's) signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth,and the living creatures that He has scattered through them and He has power to gather them together when He wills." Before proceeding further,a point or two must be noted.The word "sama",translated "heavens",is also the Arabic for "sky".One may object that the verse refers to creatures in the sky (which would be birds),not in the heavens.However,birds are mentioned seperately from creatures of the heavens in 2441, "Seest thou not that it is God Whose praise all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate,and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread?..." (9) In a note to 42;29,Muhammad Asad states,"In the Quran,the expression "the heavens and earth" invariably denotes the universe in its entireity." (10) The Quran mentions that inanimate objects also worship God"Do they not look at God's creation, (even) among (inanimate) things- how their (very) shadows turn round,from right to left,prostrating themselves to God..."(164. (11) Therefore,may not the creatures spoken of in 4229 in the heavens,be inanimate creatures of God.No.The next verse,1649 goes, "And to God doth obeisance all that is in the heavens and earth,whether moving (living) creatures or the angels...". (12) The word translated "living creatures" here is the same as that in 4229- "Dabbatun".Comments Asad,"The word dabbah denotes any sentient,corporeal being capable of spontaneous movement and is contrasted here with the non-corporeal,spiritual beings designated as "angels" ". (13) In other words,4229 is referring to precisely the type of lifeforms that science is searching for,not some metaphysical entities.Yusuf Ali says,"Dabbatunbeasts,living,crawling creatures of all kind." (14) This is the same word used in 2164,"...in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth...are signs for a people that are wise," (15) and in 2445,"And God has created every animal from waterof them are some that creep on their bellies;some that walk on two legs;and some that walk on four. God creates what he wills..." (16) Commenting on 4229,Allama Shabbir Ahmad Usmani says,"From the verse it appears that like on the earth,there are some kinds of animals- living creatures- in the heavens also." (17) On the same verse,Yusuf Ali comments, "Life is not confined to our one little Planet.It is a very old speculation to imagine some life like human life on the planet Mars...it is reasonable to suppose that Life in some form or other is scattered through some of the millions of heavenly bodies scattered through space." (1 From such remarks,the reader will realize that Muslim scholars are well aware of the fact that 4229 clearly mentions the existence of aliens.
                Is there any alien intelligent life ?

                Although the discovery of any form of life outside the earth would be dramatic,humankind is especially interested in knowing whether there is any alien intelligent life in the universe.NASA previously had a program on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI).Although now scrapped due to budget cuts, private SETI organizations (19) have now been made which continue the search.The Planetary Society, (20) a private organization,in which the film director Steven Speilberg (21) is a member of the Board of Directors,has the largest SETI program in the world.So far, no sign of alien intelligent life has turned up.Can the Quran provide an answer?

                Sura 2765 commands,"SayNone in the heavens or on earth, except God,knows what is hiddennor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgement)." (22) This shows that,like humans,there are other creatures in the universe that will also be raised from the dead.We are told in 1993-96,"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (God) Most Gracious as a servant.He does take an account of them (all),and hath numbered them (all) exactly.And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgement.On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love." (23) From these verses we learn that there are alien lifeforms that,like us,will also be judged according to the works that they do during their lives.Among them are the believers.Therefore,naturally,there will also be those aliens who are unbelievers.The believers will be rewarded.The lifeforms being descibed in the above verses can hardly be expected to be microorganisms.The Quran is referring to creatures of a level of development that makes them morally accountable beings.They must be organisms possessing qualities which we would ascribe to intelligent lifeforms.

                In Sura 7214-15,jinn (a type of spiritual lifeform,which the Quran mention as living on the earth) say,"Amongst us are some that submit their wills (to God),and some that swerve from justice.Now those who submit their wills- they have sought out (the path) of right conductBut those who swerve- they are (but) fuel for Hell-fire." (24) The Quran mentions that good jinn will be rewarded with Paradise.Summing up from all the above verses,it is clear that Judgement Day is for creatures in the whole universe (Sura 3968-"The Trumpet will (just) be sounded when all that are in the heavens and on earth will swoon, except such as it will please God (to exempt).Then will a second one be sounded,when,behold,they will be standing and looking on!&quot (25) and like jinn,aliens will also be sharing Paradise and Hell with humans.In fact,the Quran mentions that Paradise is of a size like that of our present universe- 5721,"Therefore (vie) with one another for the pardon of your Lord,and for a Paradise as vast as heaven and earh, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His apostles." (26) Therefore, it is not surprising that when we are sharing this universe with aliens,we should share Paradise and Hell with them too.The Quran shows us,therefore,that not only do aliens exist,but among them are also intelligent beings.

                Where can aliens be found?

                Knowing that aliens,including intelligent lifeforms exist elsewhere, our next question would be,"Where do they live?"Scientists naturally expect them to live on planets.They look for other planets around other stars- planets that have the right conditions to harbour life- in other words,other earths.In October 1995,scientists announced the discovery of the first extrasolar planet around the star 51 Pegasi. (27) Since then,there have been a string of discoveries of other planets.At the time of writing of this article,fifteen planets have been claimed to have been discovered. (2 Although some of these objects have been dismissed as brown dwarfs (including the object around Pegasi 51) by some scientists, (29) at least some of the fifteen objects are agreed upon as being planets.Scientists believe that on potential moons around planets found to be orbiting two stars, the right conditions may exist for life to be present. (30)

                In Sura 6512,we are informed,"God is He Who created seven heavens and of the earth a similar number..." (31) This verse,although usually translated properly,is very commonly misinterpreted by commentators.They give their interpretation that space is divided into seven zones,and likewise,as Yusuf Ali puts it,"the crust of the earth is built up of geological strata one above another". (32) This interpretation arises due to a misunderstanding of what a "heaven" is as mentioned in the Quran.Before continuing further about the topic of aliens,it is necessary to clear up this confusion.The answer can be deduced from verses in the Quran itself and comparing them with our current scientific knowledge about the universe.

                Sura 2130 asks,"Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation),before we clove them asunder?..." (33) Sura 4111-12 tell us,"Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke,and said unto it and unto the earthcome both of you,willingly or loth...Then We ordained them seven heavens...and inspired in each heaven its mandate;and We decked the lowest heaven with lamps..." (34) and Sura 7115-16,"See ye not how Allah hath created seven heavens in harmony,and hath made the moon a light therin,and made the sun a lamp?" (35) Sura 5147 informs us,"And it is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power;and,verily,it is We who are steadily expanding it." (36) Asad,comments on the above verses as followsabout 2130,"...the above unmistakable reference to the unitary origin of the universe- metonymically described in the Quran as "the heavens and the earth"- strikingly anticipates the view of almost all modern astrophysicists that this universe has originated as one entity from one single element,namely,hydrogen,which became subsequently consolidated through gravity and then seperated into individual nebulae,galaxies,and solar systems,with individual parts progressively breaking away to form new entities in the shape of stars,planets and the latter's satellites"; (37) about 4111,he explains the word "smoke" as,"a gas- evidently hydrogen gas,which physicists regard as the primal element from which all material particles of the universe have evolved and still evolve..." (3 and says about the verse,"explaining this passage,Zamakhshari observes"The meaning of God's command to the skies (heavens) and the earth to "come"... is thisHe willed their coming into being..."";for 4112,he explains "seven heavens" as,"a multiplicity of cosmic systems"; (39) about 5147 he says,"the phrase "inna la-musi'un" clearly foreshadows the modern notion of the "expanding universe"- that is,the fact that the cosmos,though finite in extent,is continuously expanding in space." (40) Finally,three more verses need to be referred to- 5038,"And verily We created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them...and naught of weariness touched us" (41) ,21104,"The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll.As We began the first creation,We shall repeat it.(It is a promise binding) upon Us.Lo!We are to perform it" (42) ,and 1448, "One day the Earth will be changed to a different Earth,and so will be the heavens..." (43)

                From the verses above,we learn this from the Qurana heaven is a material entity which arose from the same material as the earth originated from.Initially,there was one gaseous mass.A cleavage process occured resulting in the making of the "seven heavens" and "all that lies between them".The sun,moon and earth are constituants of a heaven.Therefore,a heaven must be larger than a star (sun).When the end of the universe is at hand,the heavens,which till then were in an expanding universe (5147) will come together.Then,the way our present universe came into being,in a similar manner,a new creation will come into being,containing other heavens and another earth.Any astronomer reading these verses can tell you that there is only one entity that fits the description of a heaven in the Quran- a "heaven" in the Quran must be referring to a "galaxy".According to modern science,the universe arose from a singularity,at the Big Bang,and has since,been expanding.From a primordial gas cloud arose hugh fragments from which the galaxies and their clusters arose.Today,the galaxies are moving apart from each other in space.They are seperated by intergalactic space in which may lurk invisible dark matter,making upto 90% of the total mass of the universe.if there is sufficient dark matter,at some time in the future,the universe will stop expanding and enter a contraction phase in which the galaxies will finally come close together in a Big Crunch marking an end to the present universe.The universe would have returned to a singularity state similar to that from which the present universe arose.Then,once again,scientists predict,a new universe may rebound from the singularity of the Big Crunch,as another Big Bang gives rise to a universe with its own galaxies and planets etc.Verses in the Quran agree amazingly with our current ideas about the universe!

                The purpose of our lengthy divergence from the main topic of this article was to prove that the "seven heavens" are not zones into which the universe is divided,but large astronomical entities, the galaxies.Some people have interpretted a heaven as being a solar system.However,while this view may seem appropriate for some verses,it does not tally with all the verses.

                The Quran mentions the creation of seven heavens.Asad explains that,"...as regards the "seven heavens",it is to be borne in mind that in Arabic usage...the number "seven" is often synonymous with "several"." (44) I have shown that the heavens are the galaxies and we can see that millions of them exist.Even if we assume that the heaven are some other astronomical objects that arose from the primary gas cloud,they definitely are not literally seven in number,but in the millions.

                The relevance of this to our discussion on aliens is that the Sura 6512 tells us that,as God has created "seven Heavens",He has created,"of the earth a similar number..." Therefore,as there are millions of galaxies,God has also created millions of earths scattered throughout the universe.Usmani comments on 6512,"The earths as well,He created seven (Usmani thinks literally seven.We know it actually means "many&quot,as given in the Tradition of Tirmizi etc.It is possible they are not visible, it is possible they are visible,but people think them to be stars or planets,as the scientists of today have predicted the possibility of life on Mars etc..." (45) An important thing to point out in 6512 is that God does not use the word "worlds",but specifically,"earth".An 'earth' would be a planet that harbours life.Scientists also often speak of looking for other earths.They mean not just any planet,but one sustaining or capable of sustaining life.In his book,The Bible,The Quran and Science, Maurice Bucaille writes,"...it comes as no small surprise to the reader of the Quran to find that earths such as our own may be found in the Universe..." (46)

                We have finally arrived at the Quran's answer as to where aliens can be found.They inhabit the millions of earths that God has created among the millions of heavens (galaxies) in the universe. The Quran therefore,gives us a magnificent view of the universe- a universe teeming with life,a place that the late astronomer Carl Sagan described as a "cosmic fugue,with themes and counter- points,dissonances and harmonies,a billion different voices playing the life music." (47)

                Will we ever discover aliens?

                So far,we have learnt from the Quran that extraterrestrial life,inclucing intelligent life, exists throughout countless earths in the universe.But this is not sufficient to satisfy our curiosity.We want scientists to actually discover aliens.Only after we have found incontrovertible scientific evidence that aliens exist,will our (unbelieving) hearts see that the Quran was correct all along.We actually won't be satisfied till we meet an alien face to face.Is there any chance that in the future we will actually discover,through science,the existence of aliens and establish some kind of contact with them or even meet them?

                To get some idea on this matter,we must return to Sura 4229.We are told over there that the scattering of living creatures in the heavens and the earth is a "sign".What is a sign?Sura 6104 says,"Momentous signs have come to you from your Lord.He that sees them shall himself have much to gain,but he who is blind to them shall lose much." (4 Sura 6109,"They solemly swear by Allah that if a sign be given them they would believe in it." (49) Sura 773,"A clear proof has come to you from your Lord.Here is Allah's she-camela sign for you." (50) Clearly,a sign is something which we can see,or at least,experience with our senses.Otherwise,it would not be a sign.Some signs are those that God showed to humans in the past.Other signs remain for God to show us in the future-"Soon we will show them Our Signs in the (furthest) regions,and in their own souls,until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth" (4153). (51) THERFORE,SURA 4229 CONTAINS A PROPHESY THAT A TIME WILL INDEED COME IN THE FUTURE WHEN HUMANS WILL DISCOVER ALIENS.

                In Sura 5533-34,we are addressed,"O ye assembly of Jinn and men!If it be you can pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth,pass ye!Not without authority will ye be able to pass!Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?" (52) Why does God ask us to go into space? There must be some purpose.Maybe it be for us to fulfil some grand destiny in store for our species- maybe to become a galactic race,a respectable part of the galactic community of civilizations.Maybe,it is our travels in space that may lead to our encounter with aliens and fulfil the prophesy in 4229.Only time will tell.In anticipation of the time when we become space-travellers,we are told in Sura 2922, "Neither on earth nor in heaven shall you be beyond reachnor have you any guardian or helper besides Allah." (53)

                To reach other civilizations,we must be capable of feasible interstellar transport. Might we one day be capable of undertaking such a voyage?Sura 168 says,"And (it is He Who creates) horses and mules for you to ride...and He will yet create things of which (today) you have no knowledge." (54) The latter part of this verse is often translated in the present tense but as Asad points out,"The use in this context,of the aorist "yakhluqu" implies the future tense ("He will create&quot ...Since this reference to God's continuing creation comes immediately after a mention of primitive means of transport,it obviously relates to other- as yet unknown- things of the same categorythat is to say,to new means of transport which God unceasingly creates through the instrumentality of the inventiveness with which He has endowed man's mind." (55) Therefore,it is possible that we may one day make the spacecraft required for interstellar travel.After all,God Himself has encouraged us to,"pass beyond the regions of the heavens".Sura 4229 ends with the statement that God has the power to gather the creatures of the heavens and earth together if He wills.This also points to the possibility of our meeting aliens in the future.However,this gathering may well refer to that which will occur on Judgement Day as mentioned in Sura 1993-96 (see above).

                Man's position among creation

                The most revolutionary discoveries in history have been those which altered the way humans perceived themselves in the universe.We discovered that the earth was not at the centre of the universe.We discovered that our Sun was a very ordinary star located in an insignificant part of an ordinary galaxy,which was only one of millions of galaxies.These discoveries should have humbled us.Yet,even today,many of us triumphantly proclaim ourselves as being the most supreme creation of God.It is common to ascribe our cherished position among all living things to our higher intellectual abilities.If we were to find out that there are other intelligent beings in the universe,and that some may be intellectually more superior to us,where would that leave us ?Would we finally be dethroned?

                Sura 1770 informs us,"Verily We have honoured the children of Adam...and preferred them above many of those whom We created with a marked preferment." (56) Many translations fail to mention the "marked preferment" in the verse,although the verse contains the Arabic "tafzelan" which conveys this.Note that the verse mentions that there are other creatures besides humans,who have also been given a position of distinction,and humans have been preferred above many,not all,of these creatures.Usmani states in a comment on this verse,"Under this verse a debate is openedWho is superior- Man or Angel?But logically this verse does not decide the issue." (57) Another scholar has written,"From this (verse) it is evident that whatever superiority humans have got over other creatures is not whole.Allah's creatures contain such creatures upon which humans have got no superiority."It must be remembered here that while so far we have been discussing material alien lifeforms,the debate of man's position in creation includes both material and spiritual creatures of God.Some early authorities,such as Hasan,have not accepted the word "akser" mentioned in 1770 as meaning "many".Hasan maintains that the word "akser",as used in 1770, should be understood as meaning "all",since the same word is used in 26233 and 1036,where it would be inappropriate to take its meaning as "many" but rather as "all".With such a substitution in verse 1770,the meaning would be altered to mean that man is preferred by God over all creatures.

                The debate on man's status continues among scholars and also among the public.Let us make an analogy to the debate of whether man is superior to woman.Suppose for a moment that we hand the trophy to man and let him enjoy his "superior" position.On the Day of Judgement,it will only be deeds that count and good women will go to Paradise and bad men will burn in Hell.Who would have been more superior?As you can see,in the final analysis,any debate on the status of a race,or species is useless.From earlier verses mentioned in this article,the reader will remember that,according to the Quran, God will judge humans as well as aliens on the basis of their deeds and reward them accordingly.Many humans will be sent to Hell for their wrongdoings. At the same time there will be aliens who will be rewarded for their good deeds.Who would be more superior- the unbelieving human or the faithful alien?The answer is obvious.Therefore,what's the use of debating this point?Status of a creature is relative to its moral conduct.Sura 954-5 states, "Surely We created man of the best stature,then We reduced him to the lowest of the low." (5

                Islam and the geocentric universe

                It is the fanciful idea of religion-bashers that the discovery of extraterrestrial life will undermine any remaining credibility that religion may have.In the case of Islam,as one can see from this discussion,that can hardly be the case.On the contrary,such a discovery would verify the truth of the statements contained in the Quran relating to the subject of alien life,and strengthen the position of Muslims.The vision of Islam is that of a truly universal religion.It is far removed from the exclusiveness of Judaism ("We are the Chosen Ones for God's message&quot.It is a pity that the image of all religions has suffered a setback from the great scandal of the Church- its treatment of Galileo,for (rightly) challenging their views of a geocentric universe,in which Man was The Central Figure in God's Plan of Creation,living on a planet around which all the rest of creation revolved.

                The Quran gives us a picture of our place in the universe that is quite different.In Sura 4057,God says, "Assuredly the creation of the heavens and the earth is a greater (matter) than the creation of menyet most men understand not." (59) Comments Yusuf Ali,"Man is himself a tiny part of creation.Why should he be so ego-centric?" (60) No one race of humans was chosen to be the exclusive custodians of the truth.Sura 1636 tells us,"For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle,(with the command),"Serve God,and eschew Evil"of the people were some whom God guided,and others on whom Error became inevitably (established).So travel through the earth,and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth)." (61) According to some Traditions of The Prophet (pbuh), 124,000 messengers have been sent into the world by God,throughout the ages to people all over the world.No nation was denied access to the Truth.Even on earth,guidance was provided not only to humans,but also the Jinn who co-habit this planet with us- 6130"(Then He will say)"Jinn and men!Did there not come to you apostles of your own who proclaimed to you my revelations and warned you of this day?" (62) .God's bounty,according to Islam,is not confined to creatures of the earth because He is,"...Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earth,the Lord of the Worlds" (4536). (63) To the people were sent revealed Books also,the last of which is the Quran.About the Quran itself,we are told in 434,"It is in the Mother Book with Us,sublime and full of wisdom." (64) About other planets,S.Bashir-ud-din Mahmood has this to say,"On the basis of the interpretation of verse 6512 by Ibn-e-Abbas (May Allah be pleased with him),we can say that inhabitants of these worlds must have their religion like ours and so the Holy Books.They all come from the same "Supreme Source" of revelation from where the Holy Quran originated for us on the Earth.It is evident from the verse of the Holy Quran" (ie.43;4.All Books come from the "Mother Book with Us&quot. (65) The very first verse of the Quran begins,"Praise be to Allah,Lord of the Worlds." (66)

                Summing up,while the Quran does point out that man has a favoured position on earth, (230-"Behold,thy Lord said to the angels"I will create a vicegerent on earth.""; (67) 234- "We said to the angels"Bow down to Adam..."" (6 954- We have indeed created man in the best of moulds." (69) ) there are other creatures of God who have also been favoured in the universe (1770).Humans are just a small part of God's creation (4057).When they act wrongly,they are reduced to the lowest of the low (955).Salvation is not only for some race of humans, but for all humans and creatures throughout the universe.There is a grand destiny planned by God for all of them.All humans as well as aliens who follow the guidance that God sent to their respective planets,will be rewarded (1996)."...it is God Whose praise all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate..."(2441). (70) All will return to Him.How far the picture of the universe that Islam paints is from that of a geocentric universe!

                Conclusion - a "secret" waiting to be told

                If the Quran is so explicit in stating the existence of living organisms in the universe (4229),we would suppose that the Muslim population would generally be aware of the fact that the Quran mentions extraterrestrials.Unfortunately that is not the case.A significant proportion of Muslims have no idea that this exciting piece of information is provided in their Holy Book.I have quoted a number of scholars in this article,who have commented on the verses relating to extraterrestrials.Among them are those such as Yusuf Ali and Muhammad Asad,whose works are known to Muslims throughout the world.Allama Shabbir Ahmad Usmani was a prominent figure in the Freedom Movement of Pakistan.All scholars quoted are from the mainstream of Islam. So,at least,Muslim scholars are aware of the Quran mentioning aliens.Yet,there are scholars also who have no idea about this subject.Surprisingly,even Maurice Bucaille,whose brilliant book, The Bible,The Quran and Science is extensive in its coverage of scientific topics in the Quran,completely overlooked the mention of aliens.

                How aware were the early Muslims,about the existence of extraterrestrials,or verses in the Quran on this topic?Bashir-ud-Din Mahmood writes, "The idea that there is life elsewhere in the universe also,was derived from the Prophet of Allah (pbuh) when he told Muslims, "When you sit down in the prayer for the Attahiyat and say "Peace be upon us,and the righteous servants of Allah" you actually send peace on all the righteous people living on the Earth and in the heavens." This clearly implies that all type of people,good and bad live in the other worlds as they live on our Earth." (71) He also writes,with reference to the Rasial Imam Ghazali,"According to Imam Muhammad Ghazali (11th Century),people in some of these planetary worlds have learnt to travel and communicate with each other." (72)

                The case of Ibn-e-Abbas is interesting.He was one of the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh).The Prophet (pbuh) had prayed to God specially to endow Ibn-e-Abbas(73) with knowledge of the Quran,and he became one of the great scholars of the Quran.Maulana Maududi writing in his Tafhim-ul-Quran,tells us that,"Ibn-e-Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him)...believed with confidence that there are many more earth-like bodies in the heavens. ...He not only thought that such earths are inhabited by intelligent beings but also that their people are exactly like the inhabitants on the Earth.He even went so far as to say that they may have a Prophet like Muhammad (pbuh),and had a Adam,like our Adam,a Noah,like our Noah,an Ibrahim like our Ibrahim,and a Jesus like our Jesus (pbut)." (74) The knowledge of the existence of aliens and that they are mentioned in the Quran, has been present among Muslims from the earliest days of Islam!

                There is something else that we know about Ibn-e-Abbas.He did not widely publicize his views about aliens. Rather,he was quite secretive about this matter.The reason is that he was afraid that his ideas would confuse people.In fact,he was afraid that people would be in danger of becoming unbelievers by not accepting the truth of this matter,which the Quran itself attested to.Perhaps it was such considerations that lead Muslim scholars of later times not to touch on the topic of aliens much,and so today,also,so many Muslims remain unaware about this matter.But times have changed.We've come a long way in our voyage of discovery of the wonders that surround us.The recent discoveries of extrasolar planets,of ice on the moon (75) ,of microbes deep beneath the earth's surface and around thermal vents in the oceans (76) ,of water on the sun (77) and many other amazing findings are setting the stage for a grand finale.The public is mentally prepared to hear soon about the discovery of life outside the earth.

                In recent times,Muslims have missed golden opportunities of propagating their religion to the peoples of the world.For example,the Quran mentions the expansion of the universe.This phenomenon was discovered by scientists only in 1929.If Muslims had let the world know beforehand,that the Quran mentioned this fact, then upon its discovery,a big impact could have been made on the non-Muslim world.We would have shown the world the power,the miracle,of the Quran.Of course,even today,the miracle remains that the Quran mentions the expansion of the universe,but non-Muslims tend to say,"Now you tell us,after science has already discovered this!You must be construeing the meaning of Quranic verses to suit your wishes."

                Today,as we stand at the threshold of making the most revolutionary discovery in the history of humankind,we Muslims should ask ourselves,"Hasn't the time finally come for the "secret" that Ibn-e-Abbas held to be made known to the whole world?"Yes,the time is ripe.Let the world know,before it discovers for itself,that 1400 years ago in the deserts of Arabia,a prophet received revelations,mentioning the existence of extraterrestrial life through countless heavenly bodies in the universe,and prophesying that one day, humans will indeed discover aliens.

                The Quran contains many amazing statements relating to science. There is no reason to believe that it has finally yielded all of its scientific secrets and as we enter the next century,we can be confidant that the Quran will continue to shed light on some of the most enduring and intriguing scientific mysteries of our times.

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                  savage_carrot
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #22

                  Go to any forum of sufficient members and see who's "united". It's called natural diversity of opinion which is what is common everywhere unless it is suppressed, forcibly or otherwise. Everyone has their points of view, often different which causes friction among those participating. Thus, naturally, some want those opinions silenced and others want them supported. This site has banned posters in the past who breach the rules consistently and/or extremely but obviously, it can't and won't make everyone "happy" and there will always be complaints from one side or support from the other...naturally, complaints are most often aired while support is mostly silent since it seems to satisfy um, silently. There is no hidden agenda to this site which also has been repeated many many times in the past, but people will obviously believe what they want to believe.

                  There have been members in the past unhappy with previous discussions who have gone on to make their own forums and subsequently either shut them down or are sitting around rejoicing in the silence of their forums where there's no dissent (or much participation), other than maybe a post pulled from some choice site usually FM (since that's where the "crazies" come together), dissing it happily and nodding sagely at the horror of it all. The point of this all is, sometimes one will encounter unpalatable opinions and after much debate or not, nothing is or can be done about it and that's just the way it is. If one wants it a certain way consistently, then one must suppress a whole lot and skew the balance considerably.

                  As for good deeds, doing them doesn't mean people can't participate in discussions...nonsensical or otherwise. One does get frustrated sometimes and lament at the lack of good discussions but this is the way it will always be unless drastic measures to curtail individuality are taken on the forum. I don't see it as causing division or unity just human nature in any collective environment. Those with like minded ideas get together and those with conflicting opinions don't and thus a vicious cycle starts of having to be around each other while participating in the same place. It's very interesting how that develops, some ignore the other, some have grudges which they take out on subsequent threads, some will privately get together a posse to lynch the other etc. In conclusion, there is just so much anyone can do to change anyone's mind in a discussion forum.

                  If someone is using this as a learning platform, take a look at the main site and previous discussions, start new ones if so desired but don't expect "unity" of opinions across the board. We all believe (well mostly) that God is one but then we still argue? How can this be? Is it the forum "taken over by aliens financed by venusians" causing it? Or is it just humans that do what humans do (1854). This is just a discussion platform people, don't have any expectations other than what it is. It has both pros and cons just like any forum used. No one is the grand puppetmaster running the show behind the stage and we don't have any elitist IQ exam of sorts you have to take before participating so yes, there will be the full bodied flavour/odour that isn't to everyone's taste and most will be unhappy at some point if they participate enough.

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                    Fadhli
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    Well said SC....

                    Of course it sounds non-sense to you khalil because u've never heard it before... Once this topic becomes a norm, ppl will want to know. It's just a matter of time. For me finding God beyond this universe eye is my next logical step.

                    Those that has doubts in their hearts need some cleaning to do... ;D ;D

                    No FearTM
                    Just do itTM

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                      farida
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      Go to any forum of sufficient members and see who's "united". It's called natural diversity of opinion which is what is common everywhere unless it is suppressed, forcibly or otherwise. Everyone has their points of view, often different which causes friction among those participating. Thus, naturally, some want those opinions silenced and others want them supported. This site has banned posters in the past who breach the rules consistently and/or extremely but obviously, it can't and won't make everyone "happy" and there will always be complaints from one side or support from the other...naturally, complaints are most often aired while support is mostly silent since it seems to satisfy um, silently. There is no hidden agenda to this site which also has been repeated many many times in the past, but people will obviously believe what they want to believe.

                      There have been members in the past unhappy with previous discussions who have gone on to make their own forums and subsequently either shut them down or are sitting around rejoicing in the silence of their forums where there's no dissent (or much participation), other than maybe a post pulled from some choice site usually FM (since that's where the "crazies" come together), dissing it happily and nodding sagely at the horror of it all. The point of this all is, sometimes one will encounter unpalatable opinions and after much debate or not, nothing is or can be done about it and that's just the way it is. If one wants it a certain way consistently, then one must suppress a whole lot and skew the balance considerably.

                      As for good deeds, doing them doesn't mean people can't participate in discussions...nonsensical or otherwise. One does get frustrated sometimes and lament at the lack of good discussions but this is the way it will always be unless drastic measures to curtail individuality are taken on the forum. I don't see it as causing division or unity just human nature in any collective environment. Those with like minded ideas get together and those with conflicting opinions don't and thus a vicious cycle starts of having to be around each other while participating in the same place. It's very interesting how that develops, some ignore the other, some have grudges which they take out on subsequent threads, some will privately get together a posse to lynch the other etc. In conclusion, there is just so much anyone can do to change anyone's mind in a discussion forum.

                      If someone is using this as a learning platform, take a look at the main site and previous discussions, start new ones if so desired but don't expect "unity" of opinions across the board. We all believe (well mostly) that God is one but then we still argue? How can this be? Is it the forum "taken over by aliens financed by venusians" causing it? Or is it just humans that do what humans do (1854). This is just a discussion platform people, don't have any expectations other than what it is. It has both pros and cons just like any forum used. No one is the grand puppetmaster running the show behind the stage and we don't have any elitist IQ exam of sorts you have to take before participating so yes, there will be the full bodied flavour/odour that isn't to everyone's taste and most will be unhappy at some point if they participate enough.

                      Salaam, savage_carrot
                      I appreciate your reply very much and I could understand many unsaid issues, you are a moderator on free-minds so you come to defend it and give explanations, but when it comes to the Quran we should all be moderators who check that the message of the Qur?an is not corrupted according to individual desires. I have read some of the most bizarre claims made by some people interpreting the message according to their own desire and the rest, who agree with that view, join them in this kufr
                      For example we all know from the Qur'an that there are inhabitents on other planets, but this idea of Alien from Hollywood is what is making some people build their understanding around it.
                      As for unity though it is true, as confirmed in the Qur?an, that mankind will not cease to differ but that does not mean that we all should live deeply divided.
                      11117/8
                      peace

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                        savage_carrot
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #25

                        Salam Farida,

                        when it comes to the Quran we should all be moderators who check that the message of the Qur?an is not corrupted according to individual desires.

                        Completely agree.

                        I have read some of the most bizarre claims made by some people interpreting the message according to their own desire and the rest, who agree with that view, join them in this kufr

                        There have been many bizarre claims made on this site, I agree.

                        As for unity though it is true, as confirmed in the Qur?an, that mankind will not cease to differ but that does not mean that we all should live deeply divided.

                        I hope the same. The point of my post was to clarify certain issues like you understood, and to post about tolerance of differing opinions that might be way out there to you and I. I personally had to work on my own tolerance a great deal btw in all my years here .

                        peace

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                          Fadhli
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          when it comes to the Quran we should all be moderators who check that the message of the Qur?an is not corrupted according to individual desires.

                          IMHO, i have a feeling that if a person's view is "moderated" slowly it will become like what the conservatives have become. There will be those who only authorized to comment and others who are not familiar with it is not supposed to comment at all... I believe this thinking will lead to what the conservatives Muslims have become. Maybe we are not seeing it now. But slowly, once the divide between tolerable comment and intolerable comment is identified and enforced within a group this could happen.

                          I have read some of the most bizarre claims made by some people interpreting the message according to their own desire and the rest, who agree with that view, join them in this kufr

                          Who are we to judge those guys as kufr? No matter how bizzare it seems to us, for them, it is a blessing. Would it be better to be thankful for those blessings that they have achieved for that matter? They are learning as much as us.

                          As for unity though it is true, as confirmed in the Qur?an, that mankind will not cease to differ but that does not mean that we all should live deeply divided.

                          Ironically from what i see it's this kind of thinking that kept people divided. If a person who does not care any of these division, they will not focus in this kind of topics... Division has no meaning for them.

                          Just my 2 cents... No biggie for me

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                            savage_carrot
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            IMHO, i have a feeling that if a person's view is "moderated" slowly it will become like what the conservatives have become. There will be those who only authorized to comment and others who are not familiar with it is not supposed to comment at all... I believe this thinking will lead to what the conservatives Muslims have become. Maybe we are not seeing it now. But slowly, once the divide between tolerable comment and intolerable comment is identified and enforced within a group this could happen.

                            Imo, I took that statement of Farida's to mean that we should subject our opinions etc of what we believe the Quran to say to rigourous examination...whether by airing it in a forum and seeing if it stands up to scrutiny/is defensible or some other method. I invite her to clarify her position in either case.

                            Who are we to judge those guys as kufr? No matter how bizzare it seems to us, for them, it is a blessing. Would it be better to be thankful for those blessings that they have achieved for that matter? They are learning as much as us.
                            I agree that time is better spent being optimistic and thinking happy thoughts than doom and gloom be upon the infidels but then again, one could identify those involved in kufr based on evidence as in the Quran...and we can take that as we will.

                            Ironically from what i see it's this kind of thinking that kept people divided. If a person who does not care any of these division, they will not focus in this kind of topics... Division has no meaning for them.
                            I don't think it's human nature to seek unity, rather it's natural to cause divisions based on individuality, perceived superiority etc etc, whether in the form of an elitist cult or a fan club for example, which then are further divided into different facets like the leader and safe sheep aspects (e.g. satisfying individuality and safety in numbers) and so on. All these have their own pros and cons, it doesn't mean one should strive after some ideal "unity" or actively seek to be different from the "crowd". So yes, I do agree that being neutral and not focusing on division or unity might just cause us to "come together" in a broad sense...or just let us drift. On the other hand, focusing on unity in the broadest sense then might just cause us to come together or cause arguments and divisions. I've seen both at work on this forum in the past. It's tough when there isn't any formulaic solution to real life

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                              Fadhli
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #28

                              Amazing isn't it? trying to balance these thoughts is the hard part... at least for me... ;D ... yet we are so free to bias ourselves to any sides of thoughts that we want... Beautiful words SC... To let it drift or to not to... That's the question. hehe,.,. handshake

                              Thanks for your precious thought.

                              bravo

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                                farida
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #29

                                Imo, I took that statement of Farida's to mean that we should subject our opinions etc of what we believe the Quran to say to rigourous examination...whether by airing it in a forum and seeing if it stands up to scrutiny/is defensible or some other method. I invite her to clarify her position in either case.

                                On the other hand, focusing on unity in the broadest sense then might just cause us to come together or cause arguments and divisions. I've seen both at work on this forum in the past. It's tough when there isn't any formulaic solution to real life

                                Salaam,
                                That would come under personal responsibility to protect our Deen just like Jews protect the narrative of the holocaust. In the end it?s ones beliefs which makes one protect the honour of one?s family and parents. No one can force anyone to adopt his/her opinion, but when people ridicule the message it should be monitored by everyone as if s/he is a moderator and this in turn will unite many.
                                You may think that unity is unimportant, but to outsiders when you hold sacred the Qur?an you are one of ?them? (Muslim terrorists) so remember the old saying/formula ?...divided we fall?, even herds of animals, like the Gnu, are able to save themselves by staying united.
                                peace

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                                  savage_carrot
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #30

                                  That would come under personal responsibility to protect our Deen

                                  What is our Deen? Our Deen can be radically different from our neighbours even though we claim we follow the same book. We can both stand up and speak out against injustice and unequal rights in the broadest sense for example if we both can't practise our Deen, and this can either unite us into accepting our differences or cause each other to label the other crazy and say "to the depths of mordor with him, I don't need to unite with someone who ridicules the message in my opinion or I will share in the kufr". This can further evolve/devolve into one or the other banding together to create their own group and wanting to go after the other group while simultaneously trying to pay attention to other issues.

                                  No one can force anyone to adopt his/her opinion, but when people ridicule the message it should be monitored by everyone as if s/he is a moderator and this in turn will unite many.

                                  It will only unite those who share the same opinion, whether right or wrong and this can either be a good thing or a bad thing.

                                  You may think that unity is unimportant, but to outsiders when you hold sacred the Qur?an you are one of ?them? (Muslim terrorists) so remember the old saying/formula ?...divided we fall?, even herds of animals, like the Gnu, are able to save themselves by staying united.

                                  Or like herds of lemmings we can just jump off cliffs along with all the others, and blame the boss lemming for poor eyesight later. Join together for common good, unite for common good...these can be all good things regardless of who is in the crowd...when doing good deeds for example rounding up people to help (funding organisation etc) feed some orphan kids in one's neighbourhood, should you or anyone else care whether the other guy claims that ET talks to him and said things told in a book that you hold sacred? Sure, you'd probably never hire him for taking care of your cats or something but inspite of that, if he does the work...does it matter? Regarding this outsider and insider unity, I've seen a lot of it while growing up and living in different locations, there are groups that band together because of this along with misinformation, prejudice and all that stuff to fight it and/or to feel safer, to belong etc on both sides and that is an aspect that can also be addressed by the neighbour and deen example. To say that I think unity might be unimportant is misleading at best, since all that was discussed were ramifications in RL of various paths/options and concern as to what this unity is that is being sought after.

                                  In conclusion, unity for a cause can succeed or fail miserably depending on many factors. There can def be safeguards and ways of streamlining but the more people are involved the more bogged down and frustrating the process gets. It's better to have a small task force then, with members who agree on the majority of issues to get things moving. A plea in a crowd of people, (unless it's to lynch someone) will rarely get efficient results.

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                                    savage_carrot
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #31

                                    FYI The topic of this thread has changed from "I THiNK THE QUR'AN iS A MESSAGE FROM THE ALiENS" to "ANGELS = ALiENS?" because the OP felt that was more appropriate.

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                                      farida
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #32

                                      What is our Deen? Our Deen can be radically different from our neighbours even though we claim we follow the same book. We can both stand up and speak out against injustice and unequal rights in the broadest sense ...
                                      It will only unite those who share the same opinion, whether right or wrong and this can either be a good thing or a bad thing.

                                      Salaam Savage_carrot
                                      I am impressed with your observation but, one must remember that, Life itself is a challenge. If you eat less it?s no good or, if you eat more that?s no good either, so we need to balance everything. But what is the right balance and what is normal is what we all want to know. 1220 ...The judgment is for none but God. He ordered that none be served but He. That is the true system, but most of the people do not know."

                                      Or like herds of lemmings we can just jump off cliffs along with all the others, and blame the boss lemming for poor eyesight later. Join together for common good, unite for common good...
                                      Regarding this outsider and insider unity, I've seen a lot of it while growing up and living in different locations, there are groups that band together because of this along with misinformation, prejudice and all that stuff to fight it and/or to feel safer, to belong etc

                                      Yes there are two sides to everything; good and bad there is no single solution. Take women for example, up until last century they suffered a second class status but, with the launch of the contraceptive pill women were able to limit the number of children, giving them more time to contribute to the working environment, which made them realise for the first time in the modern history that they have a great potential. At the same time the number of divorces has reached an alarming rate and families are no more what used to be referred to as normal. So what is a normal family? Is it the type where one is the head of the family and holds the right to abuse the weaker members of the group? Or is it the type where the ?monster? is no longer present, but just a single parent? Again the answer lies in maintaining the balance; do not be extravagant nor fold your hands too tight, but take a middle approach as we are told in the Qur?an.

                                      In conclusion, unity for a cause can succeed or fail miserably depending on many factors. There can def be safeguards and ways of streamlining but the more people are involved the more bogged down and frustrating the process gets. It's better to have a small task force then, with members who agree on the majority of issues to get things moving. A plea in a crowd of people, (unless it's to lynch someone) will rarely get efficient results.

                                      We are complex human beings and, despite the many messages and messengers sent to guide us over the years we will evolve but, as confirmed, not cease to differ. That must make God smile on His creation. But as you said a small balanced task force is better than a large disunited army.
                                      peace

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                                        savage_carrot
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #33

                                        It has been a very productive/constructive discussion imo, thanks sis ) peace

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                                          mujahingle
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #34

                                          i ask if it is possible to close all the thread and to continue in one another because after reflecting more and more i understood what it was inaccurate in the things i written in the first posts. if you will close it, it will be better, so we can continue in a new one with a more correct and focused start.

                                          i want try to explain my thought with my poor and bad english, but, first of all, i want to say it is not and it will never be my intention to divide the people, as Farida said to me. it's a big pain for me to read this, because all what i'm tryin to do is to find The Truth. because The Truth is one of the names of God, and because i think all the people deserves to have it. i am a muslim i want unity, inside me, inside the ummah, inside and outside all the people and across all the Universe, inshaallah. this is the reason why i put the basmala and alhamdulillah, because all what i written here it's for finding The Truth (staghfir'allah), and even if i told something right or important the praise is not to me but to The One.

                                          there is a fundamental thing i want to clarify THE QURAN IS A MESSAGE FROM GOD.

                                          Gabriel led the messages to Muhammad, but the messages was not from him, they was from God.

                                          in practice if the aliens exist and they are really the angels, all the revelations are not from them but from God, the Lord of the Worlds, the energy of all the Universe. they are just messengers, as the prophets.

                                          why?

                                          1. as it is written, they are muslims (submitted to the One), they are so evolved and they don't do what they want to do but what is right. or, better, what they want to do and what is right are the same thing (except for the rebels as Iblis). and what is right? it's the will of our God and their God, the energy of all the Universe, The One. probably all the peoples of all the planets come to this point at a certain time of the evolution.

                                          2. they led the messages for the people of this planet, but they gave them to Muhammad. Muhammad told the messages to his companions and they memorized and written them. in the end the final text was compiled and finalized several years later. in all this process the original messages from the angels/aliens had been transformed, and they became what we know as the Qur'an. the final form of the Qur'an is the result of a sum of different factors, that is God. and Islam is the final form of religion chosen for all of us by the events, God, the Lord of The Worlds, the energy of the Universe. It is not a thing wanted by the angels, it's a thing wanted by God.

                                          Another important thing is this one maybe someone could feel frustrated if aliens exist and he thinks that the humans are nothing in front of this evolved creatures, and things like that, so he prefer to do not know.
                                          but it's not so i think that when you comes to understand tawhid, you comes to understand that the thing that does all the Universe is only one, and it does all of us and all of them and all of the others creatures of the Universe. and when you understand this, no other creature is better or worst than you, we are one being only, you just need to respect your nature and those ones of all the others and you are in harmony with all the Universe.

                                          and all the praise is for The One.

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