What is happening in the Moslem world, is it a God?s Test or Curse?
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...surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition...
The classic mistake Traditional Muslims and others make (myself included) is that they think God works FOR them, when in fact, God works THROUGH them.
It seems to me that generally, those who are closer to being "Quranic" are the ones flourishing around the world, and the ones furthest away are the ones suffering.
Wakas,
that is a great point to make, I hope that alot of people will read this verse and understand what God is trying to say.On a seperate note, can you list some examples of "Quranic" nations?
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On a seperate note, can you list some examples of "Quranic" nations?
I cant think of any "Quranic" nations, in the sense that they are totally "Quranic". However many nations embody some Quranic principles. I am of the opinion, there are some things in The Quran that are very important, other things less important. For example, freedom of belief is core, so any country infringing upon this is unlikely to prosper. Same with justice, oppression of women etc. I recommend reading the book "The Natural Republic" as a decent starting point, or download it http//www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/TNR.pdf
I think it would be very easy to turn round the so-called Muslim countries in the world, if their leaders were sincere. Two things 1) unshackle and thus release 50% of your potential, i.e. restore women's rights and empower them 2) prioritise education and significantly increase funding into this system.
As I said, religionists generally make the mistake of thinking God works FOR them and not THROUGH them, thus become idle/stagnant.
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This is something I have thought about a lot of times. If we are following God's religion then why are we oppressed/hated. We should be respected and be in power. Now I realize why that is so. We have let the ulema, imaams and clerics corrupt Islam and blindly follow their teachings. Just today, my mom was telling me she saw an imaam on TV who apparently was talking about people who try to understand the Quran and do not have any religious training. He said that such people have deviated from the right path. I asked my mom who gave him the authority to make such statements and she just said he was a learned man. Unfortunately, that is the attitude of all the Muslims I have met in my life. They do not question the guy with the beard and turban as if he is infallible. God give me enough strength and courage that I am able to stand up in the middle of the Friday sermon and ask some hard questions from these paid ulema as to how they feel about deviating men from the path of God? Now I am all angry. brickwall
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Just a quick comment.
You have me thinking about tests now, and I thought of something I've never really given much thought to. Perhaps, if it is a test, it is not so much a test for you as it is for those you are so angry with.
Maybe our part, when comes to those we believe are giving false statements as facts, is to simply let them say what they will... and remember that in the end we will not have to answer for what others say and do, only what we say and do.
I do not know your situation. Yet I sincerely hope you look at things in a different way. To be hated is not the worst thing. What is worse is doing what you know is wrong in order to avoid it. To be in power is not the greatest thing. What comes after this life is far more important.
You get angry, I sometimes cry. The state of the world is a mess however you look at it.
But we believe in God. We have God to turn to. I honestly believe this is all we need.
I hope you feel better about things soon.
Peace and God bless. -
Now to you...is it a God's Curse or Test ?
Neither nor in my opinion. It's simply in this verse
O you who believe! If you help in the cause of God He will help you and make your foothold firm (477).
I believe the opposite is also correct.
and this always comes to my mind when I think of this verse and see it unfolding
... many nations embody some Quranic principles. I am of the opinion, there are some things in The Quran that are very important, other things less important. For example, freedom of belief is core, so any country infringing upon this is unlikely to prosper. Same with justice, oppression of women etc.
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This is something I have thought about a lot of times. If we are following God's religion then why are we oppressed/hated. We should be respected and be in power. Now I realize why that is so. We have let the ulema, imaams and clerics corrupt Islam and blindly follow their teachings. Just today, my mom was telling me she saw an imaam on TV who apparently was talking about people who try to understand the Quran and do not have any religious training. He said that such people have deviated from the right path. I asked my mom who gave him the authority to make such statements and she just said he was a learned man. Unfortunately, that is the attitude of all the Muslims I have met in my life. They do not question the guy with the beard and turban as if he is infallible. God give me enough strength and courage that I am able to stand up in the middle of the Friday sermon and ask some hard questions from these paid ulema as to how they feel about deviating men from the path of God? Now I am all angry. brickwall
I Pray Allah will help you in this, coming Friday! Let it be a crusade!
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My dear companions awaiting JD,
Those who judge themselves as mumins and muslims and the people of other communities as kafirs and thus the people of fire are the 'mentors' of the 'mentals.' These are the despised; for them is a painful chastisement, starting from this life itself. The cursed people!
3862 And they say What happened to us that we see not men whom we believed to count among the most wicked? Were we mocking at them? Or have our eyes missed them? That is just and fair - the angry exchanging of the inmates of the fire!
The so called muslims and mumins must stop judging them to be the heavenites whilst at the same time they stop forthwith judging the people of other so called religionists such as jews, christians, hindus etc., to be the dwellers of hell. Who are these to sit on the throne of Allah and judge? This is a grave sin to even have such fatwas in one's heart; and this is the mental state of the terrorists who are on the run! Allah does not love such aggressors and He shall punish them with a torment severe. It is curse! a curse!!
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The so called muslims and mumins must stop judging them to be the heavenites whilst at the same time they stop forthwith judging the people of other so called religionists such as jews, christians, hindus etc., to be the dwellers of hell. Who are these to sit on the throne of Allah and judge?
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YES! People always get comfortable in their religion and cease to question and doubt and then it becomes a matter of ego and pride. People then begin to sneer and look down their noses at other "religions" when we should all unite and seek the truth.
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Peace all
Neither nor in my opinion. It's simply in this verse
O you who believe! If you help in the cause of God He will help you and make your foothold firm (477).
I believe the opposite is also correct.
and this always comes to my mind when I think of this verse and see it unfolding
So you believe that Suni and Shia are from those who believe (477), and therefore, they are under Test and not Curse for the past 1000 years? I'm sure I misunderstood your post.
YES! People always get comfortable in their religion and cease to question and doubt and then it becomes a matter of ego and pride. People then begin to sneer and look down their noses at other "religions" when we should all unite and seek the truth.
I believe that if some one speaks about God's religion using man made book or his own opinion to Cancel Out Quranic Verses, then He is among the disbelievers; the reason I'm saying this is because God order us to confront them, and therefore, we should be able to identify them. Moreover, Believers should have a clear understanding of what God's orders are.
This is something I have thought about a lot of times. If we are following God's religion then why are we oppressed/hated.
They are but not you.
We should be respected and be in power.
They are not respected but you are; and if you commit to your believe, God will make you powerful (God's servant)
2455 God promises those among you who believe and do good works, that He will make them successors on Earth, as He made successors of those before them, and He will enable for them their system which He has approved for them, and He will substitute security for them in place of fear, that they serve Me and do not associate anything with Me. And as for those who reject after that, they are the wicked.
Peace
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Peace all
So you believe that Suni and Shia are from those who believe (477), and therefore, they are under Test and not Curse for the past 1000 years? I'm sure I misunderstood your post.
Surely you misunderstood my post! I started by (neither a test nor a curse). It's simply the fruit of what they are doing (and what they are not doing)
Those who believe are those who believe, irrespective of their title. The verse says that those who bestow/extend safety to others, as they do that according to God's commands, He will help them and support them. Do Sunni and shia fall under the banner of those who believe?"The arabs said we believed! Nay; say we became muslims, as believing has not even entered your hearts.". Being a Muslim is completely different from being a believer.
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Shalom , Peace , Asalaam Alaikoum
The arabic's countries hahahahahah ;D ;D ;D what do you think it will happen to them ? it's happened already ;D but as people are blind they don't see the Curse of God, do you know how many masjid they builded for worshiping satan ? then do you think that Rashad ( peace be upon him ) was attacked by terrorists ?
those people is already tested by God , and the test become so hard, because the life is go so very fast , then they will never understand or to believe , they stay in the same place then how they can move if they deserted the Quran , then let them until 2012 when God will punish the middle east.
I have feelings that the animals will be better than disbelievers ( traditional muslim ) , especially in the next years ( the future ) because Quran says , they are as animals , you have not seen that animals in the occidental countries they has their rights ? how about an poor arab ?
Shalom
Abd-Allah Mecherbet
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Shalom , Peace , Asalaam Alaikoum
The arabic's countries hahahahahah ;D ;D ;D what do you think it will happen to them ? it's happened already ;D but as people are blind they don't see the Curse of God, do you know how many masjid they builded for worshiping satan ? then do you know that Rashad ( peace be upon him ) was attacked by terrorists ?
those people is already tested by God , and the test become so hard, because the life is go so very fast , then they will never understand or to believe , they stay in the same place then how they can move if they deserted the Quran , then let them until 2012 when God will punish the middle east.
I have feelings that the animals will be better than disbelievers ( traditional muslim ) , especially in the next years ( the future ) because Quran says , they are as animals , you have not seen that animals in the occidental countries they has their rights ? how about an poor arab ?
Shalom
Abd-Allah Mecherbet
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Surely you misunderstood my post! I started by (neither a test nor a curse). It's simply the fruit of what they are doing (and what they are not doing)
Peace
In Quran, God says that he will Curse those who carry the Book and conceal its guidences; therefore, I strongly believe what are happening in the Suni and Shia Countries is what God promised to do Curse!
2159 Surely those who conceal what We have sent down to them of the clarity and the guidance, after We Had made it clear for the people in the Scripture; these will be cursed by God and be cursed by those who curse.
"The arabs said we believed! Nay; say we became muslims, as believing has not even entered your hearts.". Being a Muslim is completely different from being a believer.
Samia, The today's Suni and Shia are not the ones God speaks about in the above verse; The today Suni and Shia are not Submitters (muslems) nor Believers.
PeaceThe arabic's countries hahahahahah ;D ;D ;D what do you think it will happen to them ? it's happened already ;D but as people are blind they don't see the Curse of God, do you know how many masjid they builded for worshiping satan ? then do you think that Rashad ( peace be upon him ) was attacked by terrorists ?
Rashad Kalifa was cursed after deleting 9-128 & 129.
then let them until 2012 when God will punish the middle east.
They are already under God's curse. By the way Rashad said 2007 is when the destruction would occur
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Surely you misunderstood my post! I started by (neither a test nor a curse). It's simply the fruit of what they are doing (and what they are not doing)
Those who believe are those who believe, irrespective of their title. The verse says that those who bestow/extend safety to others, as they do that according to God's commands, He will help them and support them. Do Sunni and shia fall under the banner of those who believe?"The arabs said we believed! Nay; say we became muslims, as believing has not even entered your hearts.". Being a Muslim is completely different from being a believer.
The verse did not say "say we became Muslims". The Koran uses Islam on mountains and animals saying "Aslama" meaning submitted to the authority of. The Muslim word on the verse you mentioned is a verb and not a noun. The verb Muslim was used by Noah, Abraham and even the magicians of the Pharoah went he decided to punish them for believing in Moses. I do not see any difference between a muslim and a believer. You can't be a muslim without being a believer. but it depends do you mean it as a verb or a noun.
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Salaam Bigmo, all
I translated " " as "became Muslims". I did not want to translate "muslims" since there are many different understandings for it. I do not, for example, uphold the translation "submitted".This verse surely shows there's a difference between being "muslim" and being "believer". If you put these words in a religious context, then yes, you cannot see a difference. Otherwise, being "muslim" does not automatically make one "believer". But a "believer" is by necessity a "muslim"
