A christian perspective of Kaaba and mecca

[thegod]

A christian's truth

THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA

By Dr. Rafat Amari

The True dates for the Construction of the Temple of Mecca, the Digging of the Well of Zamzam, and the Transfer of the Black Stone to Mecca

Islamic claims that Abraham and Ishmael founded the temple in the city of Mecca are recognized as false, when we study the black Stone, which was the heart of the temple.

Abraham never went to where Mecca was eventually built, nor did his son, Ishmael, or Ishmaels son, Nabaioth. Despite these facts, Ibn Ishak, Mohammeds biographer, claimed Abraham was responsible for building the temple at Mecca, and that it was then run by Ishmael, and eventually Nabaioth. The story, created by Ibn Ishak and his companions, goes on to say that after Nabaioth, the tribe of Jurhum, which they claim inhabited Mecca at the time of Abraham, took the responsibility to serve the Temple at Mecca. According to the story, they served until the tribe of Khuzaa'h came from Yemen. This was after the dam at Ma'rib began to show signs of damage and drove them away. The story continues that, when the tribe of Khuzaa'h came to Mecca, they defeated Jurhum. Jurhum then left Mecca to hide the black Stone of the temple and two golden gazelles. They hid them in the water spring called Zamzam, then covered the spring, the stone and the gazelles with dust so they would escape detection. The date these things supposedly happened is critical. According to the stories, Jurhum lived in Mecca until the Ma'rib dam was damaged, and the tribe of Khuzaa'h left Yemen. We know these things occurred around the year 150 A.D.

Islamic tradition is illogical when it talks about Jurhum and the hiding of a spring of water and the Black Stone.

If Jurhums story were true, why did the classical authors, who visited and wrote about western Arabia mention all the tribes who were living there, even the tiny ones, but never once mention Mecca or the tribe of Jurhum? Second, after being defeated, how could Jurhum bury two precious golden gazelles and a revered stone belonging to Meccas temple without any of the inhabitants noticing? Any tribe leaving Mecca would surely take its golden treasure and not bury it in a public place, well-known to all. And this spring of water was the only spring in Mecca. Third, the black Stone was a revered stone. It is not easy to move it from its location in the temple, without people noticing where it was placed. According to Islamic claims, the war erupted over who should be responsible for the temple. How could a defeated Jurhum tribe succeed in moving the stone without the winning Khuzaa'h tribe intervening, or at least noticing where the stone had been hidden? The fourth argument concerns the spring of water itself. If it existed in western Arabia, its location would be important to remember. After all, water was especially important for the Arabians living in the desert. Islamic tradition claims this spring existed since the time of Abraham. If it were miraculously brought into existence when the angel Gabriel gave water to Hagar and her child, Ishmael, then its existence would have been known, not just in Mecca, but in many other cities around Mecca. Bedouins would have come to the spring to water their sheep. Area inhabitants would have come to refresh themselves. No one could hide the spring, even if it were possible to cover it with dust.

The story of Jurhum hiding items in the spring during the 2nd century A.D. continues by claiming that Abdel Mutaleb, the grandfather of Mohammed, rediscovered the spring near the end of the 5th century. We can only conclude that the spring never existed before the time of Abdel Mutaleb, and that digging by finally the Mecchians found underground water, which eventually became a spring. This phenomenon of digging to find water which comes in the form of a spring is common in the Middle East. To claim that a spring existed in a city for 2,500 years before Jurhum succeeded in covering it for another three centuries is an impossible assertion, since the springs of Arabia were significantly more important to the Bedouins than the Red Sea itself. You may hide the sea from the eyes of thirsty tribes, but you cannot hide a spring and its location for that amount of time.

It is also impossible to believe that the black Stone was hidden for three or four centuries. The stone was considered the main shrine, or sacred element, in each temple, called Kaabah in Arabic. This revered stone, which represented the moon, was considered to be divine. The worship of the Arabian Star Family with Allah, who was the moon as its head, revolved around the black stone. Ellat, Allahs wife, was the sun, and al-'Uzza and Manat, his daughters, represented two planets. The Muslims believe the black Stone divinely came from Allah, who was the moon before the planet Venus replaced it in Allahs title. How could a black stone, greatly worshipped and revered by the people, be hidden while they were fighting to preserve the prestige they found in serving it? It is implausible to suggest that they could hide their greatly-worshipped stone, without any of the people who chased the defeated Jurhum noticing where it was hidden, especially when the place where it was claimed to be hidden was the spring of water from which they drank every day of the battle. Hiding the worshipped stone in such a way is more implausible than hiding the spring of water itself.

The story of the black Stone has some important implications. The black Stone was not in existence near Mecca until, perhaps, the end of the 5th A.D. century. Thats why Islamic tradition tried to justify the absence of the stone by inventing implausible stories. Therefore, we can estimate that the black stone, which was the main element of worship in all Kaabahs of Arabia, was brought from another area most probable Yemen toward the end of the 5th century A.D.

Asad Abu Karb was the True Builder of Kaabah in the Beginning of the 5th century A.D.

It is said that prior to the construction of the Kaabah, a tent existed on the spot where it was built. The tribe of Khuzaa'h came from Yemen around the 2nd century A.D. In the 4th century A.D., they moved toward the area where Mecca was eventually built. Since they didnt find a temple there in which to worship, they pitched their tent in a field.

Information from the writers of the 8th century A.D., who depended on information from the time of Mohammed, indicates the Kaabah was built at the beginning of the 5th century A.D. by a Himyarite pagan Yemeni leader named Asad Abu Karb. He is also called Abu Karb Asad, and he reigned in Yemen from 410 to 435 A.D. The fact that the Islamic historians admit that Asad Abu Karb was the first ruler in history to dress the Kaabah is a significant indicator that he was the true builder of the Kaabah. Dressing a temple in Arabia was the second stage of its construction. It included decoratively finishing the inside walls, putting carpets on the walls and the floor, and adding textured and crocheted items on various parts of the interior building. (Arabians will not pray in a temple which is not dressed.) Asad Abu Karb used Amer from Azed to build the inside walls of the Kaabah. (Azed is a tribe which came from Yemen at the same time Khuzaahs tribe came.) So Asad Abu Karb, the first to build and dress the Kaabah, must have first built it when there was just a tent where the Yemeni tribe of Khuzaa'h worshipped. Asad Abu Karb, also called Tubb'a, occupied the city of Yathrib before coming to Mecca. It seems he found many temples in Yathrib, but when he came to Mecca, he didnt find any temple there. Because the inhabitants were recent emigrants from Yemen, Asad Abu Karb built them a modest temple in the Yemeni style. He did this to connect the people with himself. He also wrote a poem in which he described the sun setting in a spring of black mud, something Mohammed included in the Quran.

Additions by Quraish to the Building Which Asad Abu Karb Built

Quraish, the tribe Mohammed came from, later occupied the city. They acquired a black stone from Yemen so that their temple would be like all the other Kaabahs which, according to the worship of the Star Family of Arabia, were built around a black stone. Family Star worship started in Yemen, the place from which the Quraish emigrated. The first Kaabah built by Asad Abu Karb, had a wood roof. That roof burned, so next they used wood carried by a Byzantine ship, which stopped on the coast of the Red Sea at a place called al-Shaebieth . The owner of the ship was a Coptic Egyptian named Bachum. He sold the wood to them and made the roofing for the Kaabah. Later, when Mohammed was still young, further elements were added to the simple building.

These facts about the construction of the temple at Mecca should cause Muslims to question all that Ibn Ishak and his companions said about the city, in their attempt to back Mohammeds claim in the Quran that the temple was built by Abraham and Ishmael.

YEMENI RESPONSIBILITY IN BUILDING THE TEMPLE OF MECCA

The Yemeni tribe of Khuzaa'h built the city of Mecca in the 4th century A.D. Yemeni pagan religious worship has left its fingerprints all over the temple, showing that Abraham and Ishmael could not have built it.

We will discuss why the marks of Yemeni worship characterized the temple of Mecca. The sayings and customs of Mohammed are called Hadith. Sahih Muslim and Sahih Buchari are considered the main authoritative books which contain the words or Hadith of Mohammed. In those books, we read about Mohammeds custom to embrace and kiss two stones, the Yemenite Rukun and the Black Stone. Ibn Abbas the cousin of Mohammed and the reporter of his authoritative Hadith, says that Mohammed customarily embraced the two Yemeni Rukuns. By Yemeni Rukuns, he meant the Black Stone and the other stone, also called Rukun. From this we know that Kaabeh had two main elements, also called Rukuns, which were considered sacred. Those were the stones around which the Kaabeh was built. These were the true elements revered by the inhabitants of Mecca and by Mohammed.

It seems that the Black Stone was brought from Yemen at the time of Abdel Mutaleb, the grandfather of Mohammed. Islamic tradition claimed it was hidden with the spring of Zamzam for centuries prior to Mohammed. I demonstrated previously that such a claim could not be true. The fact is that Mohammed and Islamic tradition endeavor to connect the pagan Yemeni worship of the ancestors of Mohammed, which transferred from Yemen to the Temple of Mecca, with Ishmael and Abraham, even though there are historical evidences that point to the contrary. We will look at some of them.

First, the confirmed date of the construction of the city of Mecca is sometime after the 4th century A.D. Abu Karb Asad was the first to consecrate the Kaabah, which reveals that he was the builder of the Kaabah. He did this during his reign in Yemen, which was between 410 and 435 A.D. The two Rukuns, or stones, which were the main elements of worship in the temple, were of Yemeni origin. The date on which the Black Stone first appeared in Mecca was at the time of Mohammeds grandfather, sometime between 495 and 520 A.D. Though Islamic tradition was aware of these facts, people invented unreliable stories to fill the historical gaps. Ive already proved such stories are not logical, and are easily refutable.

An important factor in tracing Yemeni responsibility for constructing the Temple at Mecca, and in establishing the true date of construction for such Temple, is found in the Himyarite kingdom of Yemen. Abu Karb Asad, the reigning monarch of Himyarite kingdom, tried to extend his empire over central western Arabia in order to control the spice route from Yemen to North Arabia, and then to the Fertile Crescent. Abu Karb Asad, also called Tubb'a, occupied the cities of central western Arabia at the beginning of the 5th century A.D. Among those cities were Mecca and Yathrib, also called al-Medina. The occupiers strategy was to bind these cities to his kingdom by reinforcing the Yemeni religious system which the inhabitants of Mecca and Yathrib were already embracing. The inhabitants of Mecca had emigrated from Yemen, so they were of Yemeni origin. Yathrib was formed by two Yemeni tribes, Oas and Khazraj. They, too, emigrated to Yathrib after the dam at Yemen was damaged around 150 A.D. These tribes were living with two Jewish tribes, Beni Kharithah and Beni Nathir, which were already established. Abu Karb Asad was of Yemeni origin. He built the Kaabeh at Mecca to reinforce his rule over the city, and to show favor to the citizens of Mecca who were without a temple of worship. They, like him, shared the same pagan beliefs.

Tubb'a's ideas of Jewish and Yemeni pagan myths and their influence on the Arabians of central western Arabia, and consequently on Mohammed.

Tubba also tried to build bridges with the Jewish community in Yathrib. He learned their religious thoughts and rites. He learned the Jewish myths, such as the legend of the hoopoe bird that announced the kingdom of Saba to Solomon. This myth came from the Jewish mythological book called the Second Targum of Esther. Mohammed incorporated the same myth into the Quran.

To accomplish his ends, Tubb'a brought two Jewish rabbis to Yemen. They added to his knowledge by teaching him many Judaic religious rites and myths, enabling him to mix various items in his own Yemeni pagan background with Jewish mythology and religious tradition. For example, he combined Arabian star worship with Jewish myths. With mixed knowledge like this, he thought he could control the regions in central western Arabia, where people of Jewish and Arabian origin lived. He then claimed himself to be a prophet, expounding many thoughts which the Yemeni people considered indisputable about the sun, the earth and the cosmos. At Mecca, in an attempt to convince his listeners that he was a prophet, he taught that the sun sets in a spring of black mud. This myth, too, was incorporated by Mohammed in the Qu'ran.

After his death, Tubb'as claim left an impression on many groups, even on groups that lived until the time of Mohammed. Mohammed considered him as a Muslim and almost as a prophet. There have been myths about Tubb'a among the Arabians. Al-Taberi attributed victories to him in China and Tibet. This is unhistorical, but it shows how great an impact Tubb'a left on the Arabians at the time of Mohammed, to the point that many considered him to be a prophet.

The Kaabah of Mecca was built for the Arabian Star worship and it shares all the characteristic of the Kaabahs that were built for their worship.

The fact that the temple at Mecca was built as a Kaabah for Arabian star worship is shown in many ways. First, it was built in the same architectural style as other Kaabahs in Arabia. They were all temples for the same Arabian Family Star religion, in which Allah is considered the head and Ellat is his wife. All the Kaabahs had a Black Stone as the most revered element. It represented the star deity in Arabia. Many of the black stones were meteorites which the Arabs saw descending to earth. They thought the meteorites they were envoys from the moon, which was considered to be Allah himself. This is before that title was given to Venus, who replaced the moon as head of the star family.

Another thing which shows that the Kaabah of Mecca was built as a temple for Arabian star worship is that the Kaabah of Mecca reflects members of the star family in many of its elements. The main door of the Kaabah was called the door of worshippers of the sun, the wife of Allah.

Mohammed confirmed that the origin of the Kaabah's faith was Yemeni.

The role of Yemeni religious paganism in building the temple at Mecca, and its religious nature, cannot be hidden. Even Mohammed recognized the origin of the religious system of Mecca as Yemeni. Mohammed uttered many Hadiths about the Yemeni origin of the Kaabah faith. Such teachings are reported in the authoritative Hadith, the book of al-Bukhari, in which Mohammed says the faith is Yemeni and the wisdom is Yemeni. In another Hadith, he says the doctrine and jurisprudence is Yemeni. Therefore, not just the Rukuns, the sacred stones in the Kaabah, were from Yemen, but also religious laws, doctrine and faith are Yemeni. It is undeniable proof that the temple of Mecca was constructed by a Yemeni leader according to a Yemeni pagan style and specification. He established Yemeni religiosity at Mecca, and it was known in other parts of Arabia. How, then, could Abraham have built the Kaabeh, if what we have learned about its construction is true? How did the Black Stone come from heaven, and how did Abraham sacrifice on it, and build the Kaabah around it, if the stone was not in Mecca before the 5th century A.D.? How could Mohammeds teaching come from Allah through the angel Gabriel and still be of Yemeni origin?

The important Egyptian scholar, Tah Hussein, has criticized Islamic tradition for linking the construction of Meccas temple to Abraham and Ishmael. Tah said

The case for this episode is very obvious because it is of recent date and came into vogue just before the rise of Islam. Islam exploited it for religious reasons."

If Muslims search diligently in history, like this great Egyptian scholar did, they will reach the same conclusion.

Establishing the Date the Tribe of Khuzaa'h Built Mecca

Many historical elements help us determine the true date Mecca was built. One major factor is the damage which occurred to the dam of Ma'rib in Yemen around the year 150 A.D. It caused the emigration of many families and tribes from Yemen to the north. One of these families was the family of Amru bin Amer, a Yemeni individual whose progeny fostered many tribes. Among them was Khuzaa'h, which settled in central western Arabia. Later, they built the city of Mecca.

Other tribes which came from Amru bin Amer were Oas and Khazraj. They settled in Yathrib, also called al-Medina, where the Jewish tribes of Beni Kharithah and Beni Nathir were already located.

From the writings of Tabari, the famous Arabic historian, we understand that this happened at approximately the same time the Lakhmids moved from Yemen to Mesopotamia. It is also the same time Amru bin Amer, the father of Khuzaa'h, moved from Yemen. The Lakhmids came from Yemen in the 2nd century A.D. They lived in a region of Mesopotamia later known to be the city of Hira. Later the Persians used them to protect Persian borders with the Byzantine Empire, which was dominating Syria. The first Lakhmid king was Amr I bin Adi, who ruled from 265-295 A.D. The serious collapse of the dam of Ma'rib precipitated the emigration of tribes such as Ghassan, which settled in the Byzantine border; Shammar which inhabited the Syrian Desert; and other tribes which emigrated to the north of Arabia and the Fertile Crescent. Some of these tribes were related to each other because they were progeny of Amru bin Amer. Other tribes who came out of Yemen at the time the dam collapsed were Oas and Khazraj. They went to live in al-Medina. Ozd al-Sarat went to al-Sarat, a location near Orfeh, which is near where Mecca was built. The tribe of Khuzaa'h inhabited a place called Mur, also called Mur al-Thahran, another place near where Mecca was built.

Mecca was Built by Khuzaa'h as a Desolate Station on the Spice Route

There was no city named Mecca in that area; otherwise, Khuzaa'h and Ozd would have inhabited it, as Oas and Khazraj inhabited the city of Yathrib. For more than a century and a half Khuzaa'h remained in the area near where Mecca was later built. They then decided to build a station on the caravan route where traders could rest and conduct business. If Mecca had existed before Khuzaahs emigration from Yemen, Mecca would have been the city to which they would go to search out a living, even as their sister tribes, Oas and Khazraj, went to Yathrib to benefit from commerce and agricultural activities of the Jewish tribes there. But neither Khuzaa'h nor Ozd, as new emigrants in semi-deserted areas around the area where Mecca eventually built, found a city to host them when they left Yemen. They waited more than 170-200 years before building a city on the caravan route, which became a station for the caravans competing with Yathrib, which was about 200 miles away. The station they built, was called Mecca.

It is important to note that none of the tribes who came from Yemen inhabited Mecca. If Mecca was in existence at the time the dam was seriously damaged, around the year 150 A.D., we would find many tribes locating in Mecca, because it is closer to Yemen than Yathrib is to Yemen. But, because the area where Mecca was eventually built was desolate and had no cities, it induced the tribes of Ozd and Khuzaa'h to live there. They did so, although they previously lived in a civilized city in Yemen which was Ma'rib, the capital of Saba. This is an important argument which points out that Mecca could not have existed before Khuzaa'h built the city in the 4th century A.D.

Lets review these historical facts. Ive shown that the Yemeni tribe of Khuzaa'h built the city of Mecca in the 4th century A.D. Weve seen the connection between the temple of Mecca and Yemeni pagan religious worship. All this shows that the claim of Islam about Abraham and Ishmael building the temple of Mecca contradicts the true historical facts. Building faith on the sand is unwise. I pray that our Muslim friends will return to true faith as found in history and announced in the Bible. In the Bible they can find a solid foundation, documented in the writings of the prophetic books, and considered by historians to be the accurate resource for ancient history.

Religion Research Institute -Home

Tarikh al-Tabari, I, page 524

Al-Azruqi, Akhbar Mecca, 1/6

A. Jamme, W.F., Sabaean Inscriptions from Mahram Bilqis (Ma'rib), the Johns Hopkins Press, Baltimore, 1962, Volume III, page 387; there are also Texts numbered by G. Ryckmans after himself, G. Ryckmans, Le Museon 66 (1953), pages 363-7, p1.V; quoted by K.A. Kitchen , Documentation For Ancient Arabia, Part I, Liverpool University Press, 1994, page 219

Al-Azruqi, Akhbar Mecca, 1173; Yaqut al-Hamawi, Mujam al-Buldan, 4463

Ibn Saad, Tabakat, 1, page 64

Ibn Hisham 1, page 20

Halabieh 1, page 235; Ibn Hisham I, page 157; al-Azruqi, Akhbar Mecca I, page 104

Tarikh al-Tabari, I, page 526

Sahih Muslim 9, page 15

Tarikh al-Tabari, I, page 426-428; al-Ya'akubi I, page 226

Tarikh al-Tabari, I, page 429

Halabieh I, page 280

Tarikh al-Tabari, I, pages 331, 332, 360

Halabieh I, page 236

Al-Bukhari 5, page 122; Halabieh I, page 259

Quotation by Alessandro Bausani, LIslam, Garzanti Milano, 1980, page 208

Quoted in Mizan al-Islam by Anwar al-Jundi, page 170 ;Behind the Veil, page 184

Tarikh al-Tabari, I, pages 431 and 360 also mentioned the emigration to the area of Hira in Mesopotamia of tribes descended from Maad bin Adnan from Yemen.

K.A. Kitchen, Documentation For Ancient Arabia, Part I , Liverpool University Press, 1994, page 251

James Montgomery, Arabia and the Bible, University of Pennsylvania Press, Philadelphia, 1934, page 126; Montgomery also quotes Philby, The Heart of Arabia, II, page 97

Ibn Hisham I, page 12

Ibn Hisham I, page 13

The commentators on Ibn Hisham I, page 13

Copyright ? 2004 by Dr. Rafat Amari. All rights reserved.

A "truth"-expounding book by him http//www.amazon.com/Islam-Light-History-Rafat-Amari/dp/0976502402

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

[Bigmo]

The problem with these sources is that they are oral and they are also persisitent in their claims that the Arabs came from Ismael, the son of Abraham. However the Koran uses Bani Israel many times but never uses Bani Ismael. There is no eveidence from the Koran that Muhammad was somehow connected to Ismael. Yet many of these arab histories says so, and then uses that to establish a link with Mecca with Abraham. I believe that the ka'ba was built by Abraham, but I also believe as the Torah says, that he built houses of worship in many places. I don't believe that Adam was there or it was the first house of worship since I am not sure what Baka is. But it could be. The black stone is somewhat more suspicious. However the Koran says many houses of worship was built for mankind to praise and thank God. I am not too concerned about Mecca or otherwise. However I have this about what historians and academics think

Before Islam

'King Fahad' gate of the Grand Masjid (Masjid al Haram) in Mecca.
'King Fahad' gate of the Grand Masjid at night in Mecca.As little is known of the history of the Kaaba, there are various opinions regarding its formation and significance.

The early Arabian population consisted primarily of warring nomadic tribes. When they did converge peacefully, it was usually under the protection of religious practices. Writing in the Encyclopedia of Islam, Wensinck identifies Mecca with a place called Macoraba mentioned by Ptolemy. His text is believed to date from the second century AD, before the rise of Islam, and described it as a foundation in southern Arabia, built around a sanctuary. The area probably did not start becoming an area of religious pilgrimage until around the year AD 500. It was around then that the Quraysh tribe (into which Muhammad was later born) took control of it, and made an agreement with the local Kinana Bedouins for control. The sanctuary itself, located in a barren valley surrounded by mountains, was probably built at the location of the water source today known as the Zamzam Well, an area of considerable religious significance.

Eiichi contends that there were multiple such "Kaaba" sanctuaries in Arabia at one time, but this is the only one built of stone. The others also allegedly had counterparts to the Black Stone. There was a "red stone", the deity of the south Arabian city of Ghaiman, and the "white stone" in the Kaaba of al-Abalat (near the city of Tabala, south of Mecca). Grunebaum in Classical Islam points out that the experience of divinity of that time period was often associated with stone fetishes, mountains, special rock formations, or "trees of strange growth."

According to Karen Armstrong, in her book Islam A Short History, the Kaaba was dedicated to Hubal, a Nabatean deity, and contained 360 idols which either represented the days of the year, or were effigies of the Arabian pantheon. Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian peninsula, be they Christian or pagan, would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj.

To keep the peace among the perpetually warring tribes, Mecca was declared a sanctuary where no violence was allowed within 20 miles (32 km) of the Kaaba. This combat-free zone allowed Mecca to thrive not only as a place of pilgrimage, but also as a trading center. According to the Boston Globe, the Kaaba was a shrine for the Daughters of God (al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat) and Hubal.

The Kaaba was thought to be at the center of the world with the Gate of Heaven directly above it. The Kaaba marked the location where the sacred world intersected with the profane, and the embedded Black Stone was a further symbol of this as a meteorite that had fallen from the sky and linked heaven and earth.

According to Sarwar, about four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad, a man named "Amr bin Lahyo bin Harath bin Amr ul-Qais bin Thalaba bin Azd bin Khalan bin Babalyun bin Saba", who was descended from Qahtan and king of Hijaz (the northwestern section of Saudi Arabia, which encompassed the cities of Mecca and Medina), had placed a Hubal idol onto the roof of the Kaaba, and this idol was one of the chief deities of the ruling Quraysh tribe. The idol was made of red agate, and shaped like a human, but with the right hand broken off and replaced with a golden hand. When the idol was moved inside the Kaaba, it had seven arrows in front of it, which were used for divination.

Patricia Crone disagrees with most academic historians on most issues concerning the history of early Islam, including the history of the Kaaba. In Makkan Trade and the Rise of Islam, Crone writes that she believes that the identification of Macoraba with the Kaaba is false, and that Macoraba was a town in southern Arabia in what was then known as Arabia Felix.

Many accounts, including Muslim accounts, and some accounts written by academic historians, stress the power and importance of the pre-Islamic Mecca. They depict it as a city grown rich on the proceeds of the spice trade. Crone believes that this is an exaggeration and that Makkan may only have been an outpost trading with nomads for leather, cloth, and camel butter. Crone argues that if Mecca had been a well-known center of trade, it would have been mentioned by later authors such as Procopius, Nonnosus, and the Syrian church chroniclers writing in Syriac. However, the town is absent from any geographies or histories written in the last three centuries before the rise of Islam.

According to The Encyclopaedia Britannica, "before the rise of Islam it was revered as a sacred sanctuary and was a site of pilgrimage." According to the German historian Eduard Glaser, the name "Kaaba" may have been related to the southern Arabian or Ethiopian word "mikrab", signifying a temple. Again, Crone disputes this etymology.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#Black_Stone

[Bigmo]

Wikipedia refers to Quran alone Muslims

Bakkah and Jerusalem

Arguments for the identification of Bakkah with Jerusalem
For a more detailed argument in favour of Bakkah being in Jerusalem, see | Where Was Mohammed?

This theory is gaining wide popularity amongst the Qur'an Alone movement.

Early Muslims, according to neutral (non-Islamic) historical evidence, conducted Salat (contact prayer) towards Jerusalem as opposed to Mecca.
There is a contradiction in the Sunni/Shia traditions whereby they claim that Mohammed only faced Jerusalem for about 18 months after arriving to Medina (i.e. until 624 CE which corresponds to his 2nd year of the Hijra), yet they neglect to mention what Qibla he faced for the 12 previous years since he apparently declared his messengership in 610 CE.
Islamic tradition holds that the Prophet journeyed to Jerusalem before his ascension to heaven during the 'night journey'.
According to Islamic tradition, Abraham (and Ismail) raised the foundations of the Kaaba in Mecca. However, the faiths after Abraham (Jewish & Christian) do not acknowledge that Abraham traveled as far south as Mecca or that their pilgrimage was to that area.
There is physical evidence that the Arabic language as revealed in the Scripture is a product of the Nabataens who were dominant in the Jordan/Palestine area.
Mecca (in Saudi Arabia) cannot be found on any ancient trade map, or recorded as a center for pilgrimage or major religious activity before the 7th Century CE.
Jews and Christians claim that the remains of Lot's town are nearer to the town of Jerusalem than Mecca. This also supports 1576-77 in the Qur'an which state that Lot's town was on an established part. Archaeologists have not found any major roads (paths) near Mecca which date before the 7th Century CE.
The outcropping rock (which is attributed as "Maqam Ibrahim&quot located inside the Dome of the Rock at Jerusalm fits the Qur'an's description in 398 while the "Maqam Ibrahim" in Mecca is located outside the shrine/temple conflicting with the description given in the Scripture? Also, the "Maqam Ibrahim" in Mecca has been given no religious significance in any of the Jewish and Christian scriptures whereas the "Maqam Ibrahim" in Jerusalem fits with the story in all of the Abrahamic scriptures of Abraham almost sacrificing one of his sons.
Mohammed was adamant on facing the mighty Roman (Byzantium) army to the North. This could indicate that the Roman's held something exteremely valuable to him which was worth taking such a risk.
Abdel Malik constructed a magnificent Dome around the rock outcropping in Jerusalem as a 'Temple/Shrine' with no mihrab facing Mecca and no features of a typical mosque.
Abdel Malik called people to pilgrim to Jerusalem and away from Mecca according to the Islamic historians of that period
Caliph Suleyman, as late as 717 CE, showed confusion in whether it was Mecca or Jerusalem that the pilgrimage should be conducted to.
The prophecy associated with Israel's 2nd rising speak of their defeat by the retaking of the 'Temple'. Does this mean that Israel planning to occupy Mecca any time in the future? Or, is God speaking of His Temple in Jerusalem which has been under Israeli control since the 1967 Israeli-Arab war.
The 'Kaaba' of Mecca located at the base of a valley where it is prone to flash floods. This is not in-line with the purpose (defined in the Qur'an) of providing a sanctuary for the pilgrims. However, this practice is found in pagan sites such as in Negev.
Pilgrims in Mecca circle around the cube 7 times, as well as run between two hills 7 times. These acts do not have any clear reasoning behind them and is almost identical to the pagan rituals of the Prophet Muhammad's time.
Early Mosques with two Mihrabs (niches which show the direction of prayer) show one facing Jerusalem and the other facing in the (almost exact) opposite direction, not Mecca.
The Dome of the Rock is built on the site of Herod's Temple (which served as the main temple for the Jews). Herod's Temple is allegedly built on the same site as Solomon's Temple (according to Jewish and Christian tradition) which is allegedly built on Abraham's first house of worship (also according to Jewish and Christian tradition). The Qur'an states that Abraham's first house of worship was built in Bakkah (396).
The Qur'an states that Abraham asked for Bakkah to become a city of peace. Yerushalim (Hebrew for Jerusalem) literally means 'City of Peace'.

References
^

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah

[Rami]

Peace all,

I gently disagree. Dr. Rafaat and all the other Biblical archaeological jokers have a very serious problem. These guys are like extremely critical and rational when it comes to Islam but when something goes against the Bible they start acting like clowns. There is literally no evidence whatsoever for a pre-babylonian Jewish temple or a King Solomon in this region they call Palestine, Israel or Canaan and they are all false by the way. This place gained religious significance after the Babylonian captivity. Let's review some points

In the Old Testament
-No where in the OT is the Jordan referred to as a river. Why?
-Mitzraim doesn't mean Egypt. It is a mistranlation of the Greek Septuagint
-The idea that Abraham kept going to and fro between Egypt and Canaan is a joke. They must be close to each other.
-The OT mentions lots of places but never recognizes the Dead Sea...why?!
-Pharaoh gave Abraham camels! There were no camels in Egypt at that time. All the Judeochristian world avoid this one.
In the Koran
-Misr is used as a marketplace. eg. They brought Joseph from Egypt, Joseph said to his brother after they reached him 'Enter Egypt'?
-No such thing as Ishmaelites.
-No such thing as Israel- it is always Bani-Israel.
-No such thing as Egyptians! Pharaoh and his people all drowned and the land was inherited by Israelites and other tribes.
Other
-Hebrews and Arabs are the same people. It is a matter of Metathesis in linguistics. Ivry-->Irvy. Arabic is simply advanced hebrew. Forget the Semitic lie.
-All the 'nations' in the Old Testament are actually Arabic tribes. eg. Amalek or the Giants
-Biblical legends is a common folklore with Arabs.

This doesn't make Mecca true. But Jerusalem is more problematic than Mecca. Heck the whole Exodus story is in trouble.

Peace,

Rami

[Bigmo]

Peace all,

I gently disagree. Dr. Rafaat and all the other Biblical archaeological jokers have a very serious problem. These guys are like extremely critical and rational when it comes to Islam but when something goes against the Bible they start acting like clowns. There is literally no evidence whatsoever for a pre-babylonian Jewish temple or a King Solomon in this region they call Palestine, Israel or Canaan and they are all false by the way. This place gained religious significance after the Babylonian captivity. Let's review some points

In the Old Testament
-No where in the OT is the Jordan referred to as a river. Why?
-Mitzraim doesn't mean Egypt. It is a mistranlation of the Greek Septuagint
-The idea that Abraham kept going to and fro between Egypt and Canaan is a joke. They must be close to each other.
-The OT mentions lots of places but never recognizes the Dead Sea...why?!
-Pharaoh gave Abraham camels! There were no camels in Egypt at that time. All the Judeochristian world avoid this one.
In the Koran
-Misr is used as a marketplace. eg. They brought Joseph from Egypt, Joseph said to his brother after they reached him 'Enter Egypt'?
-No such thing as Ishmaelites.
-No such thing as Israel- it is always Bani-Israel.
-No such thing as Egyptians! Pharaoh and his people all drowned and the land was inherited by Israelites and other tribes.
Other
-Hebrews and Arabs are the same people. It is a matter of Metathesis in linguistics. Ivry-->Irvy. Arabic is simply advanced hebrew. Forget the Semitic lie.
-All the 'nations' in the Old Testament are actually Arabic tribes. eg. Amalek or the Giants
-Biblical legends is a common folklore with Arabs.

This doesn't make Mecca true. But Jerusalem is more problematic than Mecca. Heck the whole Exodus story is in trouble.

Peace,

Rami

I never understood why many Koranist are so adamant about refusing the authority of the OT even though the Koran defended the OT more than any other book on Earth except probably Jesus and the Gospel. And they don't even accept that.

They just can't brickwall

[Ahmad_Bilal]

Peace,

A "truth"-expounding book by him http//www.amazon.com/Islam-Light-History-Rafat-Amari/dp/0976502402

Very interesting and informative post. Thanks for the insight...

Peace,

Ahmad

[Real_Truth]

Peace all,

I gently disagree. Dr. Rafaat and all the other Biblical archaeological jokers have a very serious problem. These guys are like extremely critical and rational when it comes to Islam but when something goes against the Bible they start acting like clowns. There is literally no evidence whatsoever for a pre-babylonian Jewish temple or a King Solomon in this region they call Palestine, Israel or Canaan and they are all false by the way. This place gained religious significance after the Babylonian captivity. Let's review some points

Peace,

ok.

In the Old Testament
-No where in the OT is the Jordan referred to as a river. Why?

insignificant

-Mitzraim doesn't mean Egypt. It is a mistranlation of the Greek Septuagint

interesting

-The idea that Abraham kept going to and fro between Egypt and Canaan is a joke. They must be close to each other.

ok

-The OT mentions lots of places but never recognizes the Dead Sea...why?!

insignificant

-Pharaoh gave Abraham camels! There were no camels in Egypt at that time. All the Judeochristian world avoid this one.
In the Koran

Hmm that's interesting I'd have to look that up

-Misr is used as a marketplace. eg. They brought Joseph from Egypt, Joseph said to his brother after they reached him 'Enter Egypt'?

chapter verse

-No such thing as Ishmaelites.

what...

-No such thing as Israel- it is always Bani-Israel.

Really what's the difference??

-No such thing as Egyptians! Pharaoh and his people all drowned and the land was inherited by Israelites and other tribes.
Other

wrong not ALL the egyptians went after moses...

-Hebrews and Arabs are the same people. It is a matter of Metathesis in linguistics. Ivry-->Irvy. Arabic is simply advanced hebrew. Forget the Semitic lie.

That would need extensive proof

-All the 'nations' in the Old Testament are actually Arabic tribes. eg. Amalek or the Giants

Umm arab nationalist much? You do realize Ethiopians are mentioned in the bible a good bit of time, so are you going to tell me ethiopians are arabs also?

-Biblical legends is a common folklore with Arabs.

Proof

[Rami]

Peace,

ok.
insignificant
interesting
ok
insignificant
Hmm that's interesting I'd have to look that up
chapter verse
what...
Really what's the difference??wrong not ALL the egyptians went after moses...That would need extensive proof
Umm arab nationalist much? You do realize Ethiopians are mentioned in the bible a good bit of time, so are you going to tell me ethiopians are arabs also?
Proof

Just bring me the proof that King Solomon existed in this place first. If you didn't, know that the common exegesis of the OT is false. And I am not attacking the OT. It is an accurate account of desert Arab/Hebrew history. Another example of this metathesis is the word south. In Hebrew, it is Negev but in Arabic it is Genev(Ganoub). Think about it, what language did Ishmael speak? What about Hagar? How da heck did Abraham communicate with Pharaoh and why will a King of Egypt have dealings with a shepherd from the desert? And why is the Ishmaelites much more numerous than the Israelites?

[thegod]

1. Much of the claims of conspiracy theorists are in light of biblical history (which should be treated as no less fictitious than arab history), & with an intent to prove that the quraan & the prophet are lies.

2. Much can be said of the attitude & beliefs of crone, cook, wansbrough, warraq, & the rest. There is a difference between scholarly research & hostile speculation.

Psychopathic Vandalism?

Puin speaks with disdain about the traditional willingness, on the part of Muslim and Western scholars, to accept the conventional understanding of the Koran. "The Koran claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or 'clear,'" he says. "But if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims -- and Orientalists -- will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Koranic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Koran is not comprehensible -- if it can't even be understood in Arabic -- then it's not translatable. People fear that. And since the Koran claims repeatedly to be clear but obviously is not -- as even speakers of Arabic will tell you -- there is a contradiction. Something else must be going on."

Not everyone agrees with that assessment -- especially since Western Koranic scholarship has traditionally taken place in the context of an openly declared hostility between Christianity and Islam. (Indeed, the broad movement in the West over the past two centuries to "explain" the East, often referred to as Orientalism, has in recent years come under fire for exhibiting similar religious and cultural biases.) The Koran has seemed, for Christian and Jewish scholars particularly, to possess an aura of heresy; the nineteenth-century Orientalist William Muir, for example, contended that the Koran was one of "the most stubborn enemies of Civilisation, Liberty, and the Truth which the world has yet known." Early Soviet scholars, too, undertook an ideologically motivated study of Islam's origins, with almost missionary zeal in the 1920s and in 1930 a Soviet publication titled Ateist ran a series of articles explaining the rise of Islam in Marxist-Leninist terms. In Islam and Russia (1956), Ann K.S. Lambton summarized much of this work, and wrote that several Soviet scholars had theorized that "the motive force of the nascent religion was supplied by the mercantile bourgeoisie of Mecca and Medina"; that a certain S.P. Tolstov had held that "Islam was a social-religious movement originating in the slave-owning, not feudal, form of Arab society"; and that N.A. Morozov had argued that "until the Crusades Islam was indistinguishable from Judaism and ... only then did it receive its independent character, while Muhammad and the first Caliphs are mythical figures. "Morozov appears to have been a particularly flamboyant theorist Lambton wrote that he also argued, in his book Christ (1930), that "in the Middle Ages Islam was merely an off-shoot of Arianism evoked by a meteorological event in the Red Sea area near Mecca."

3. A crone or a wansbrough coming up with a conspiracy theory is insignificant; what is significant is the credibility of their sources, which is essentially the credibility of the theory. And the credibility of both the author & the source leaves a lot to be desired.

4. It is not merely a question of (accepting or rejecting the) conspiracy theories. It is also a question of "why?"

bigmo-@http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah

The Qur'an states that Abraham asked for Bakkah to become a city of peace. Yerushalim (Hebrew for Jerusalem) literally means 'City of Peace'.

The word used in quraan is "aman" & not "salaam".....so even that claim (made by whoever wrote that statement) is misleading.

Further, there is nothing in the quraan to claim that jerusalem has anything to do with israel. Then, far as consipracy theories go, "quraanists" can very well make a claim to a "jerusalem-israel " conspiracy.

The hebrew name for jerusalem is held to be "yerushalayim" (& not "yerushalim&quot, while in arabic it has been known as "al quds". It can be further speculated that as yerushalayim denotes duality, there is more here than meets the eye.

Also, shalim was a deity.

And far as amari himself goes

The Bible as a Valid Resource for Ancient History

It is true we have all of these resources to validate ancient history, but the single most reliable resource is the Bible. The books of the Bible were written by various prophets who lived at various times. Moreover, they were inspired by God to ensure accuracy. Most of the inspired writers of the Old Testament lived and wrote before the historians themselves.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen