shahada
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Salam, I have a question about shahada.
When I reverted to islam I took the standard sunn7 shahada that included the prophets name, is my shahada witnessed by Allah swt? Or valid at all. Is there a way that I can correct this, if so please comment on information from Quran, for emample the number of witnesses
Much thanks and salam -
Salam, I have a question about shahada.
When I reverted to islam I took the standard sunn7 shahada that included the prophets name, is my shahada witnessed by Allah swt? Or valid at all. Is there a way that I can correct this, if so please comment on information from Quran, for emample the number of witnesses
Much thanks and salam3735,
They were those to whom when it was said ?There is no god but Allah?, they waxed proud.
4719,
So, be assured that there is no god but Allah, and seek forgiveness for your fault, and for (the faults of) the believing men and believing women. And Allah knows your moving from place to place and your permanent abode.
There is NO verse in The Qur'aan saying
Peace,
Khalil -
@ Wakas
True to the letters sir. Salaam
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Salam, I have a question about shahada.
When I reverted to islam I took the standard sunn7 shahada that included the prophets name, is my shahada witnessed by Allah swt?EVERTYHING you do, feel and think is witnessed by God )
Up to the 'thing' which you are trying to hide from everyone.Or valid at all. Is there a way that I can correct this, if so please comment on information from Quran, for emample the number of witnesses
Much thanks and salamShahada is a ritual invented by the author of a religion named "Islam", few decades after Muhammad's death.
It's actually a copy-paste from another religion named Christianity which also copy-paste of the same concept from Judaism.
Originally in Judaism it's called the "Shema" ritual.
http//www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/shema.htmlThus since it's only applicable if you want to join a cult/sect/religion/gang named Islam, you should ask the Gang Leader whether your "Shahada" is valid or not.
There are two big clubs where each are claiming as the "One and Only Official/Truest Manifestation of Religion named Islam".
The witnessing of Muhammad as prophet is a requirement to join the Sunnis gang..
While in order to join the Shiites gang, you need to add a testimony of "Ali is God's helper" (Alliyun Walli Allah)Or if you want to join the Judaism gang, then recite the shema as shown above.
Or if you want to join the Christianity gang, there are hundred of choices, the two major ones are Catholicism gang and Orthodoxism gang. And they have a very long and complicated "shahada", feel free to ask any representative of the above religion if you're interested.Salam / Peace
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Peace
Nothing is concealed from God, whether open or secret and therefore everything, even as small as a seed, will be weighed in your accounting with God .
"God bears witness that there is no god but He; as do the angels, and those with knowledge; He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise."
No nabiyy , no rasool can bear witness to what's in your heart. There are examples in the quran of people who say one thing while believing in another but they cannot deceive God.
Joe
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I have to wonder whether the '2 witnesses' is an invention from 2282 " And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men " which isn't referencing Shahada at all. Reading up on how people try to justify it, its to 'integrate into the community' which seems to be more for the communities benefit than the individual.
As a convert myself, after the Shahada the only 'support' from the brotherhood I got was to pull me into one sect or the other, and even that died very quickly. If the purpose of witnesses is to guide that individual from the dark into the light, its failed in real world terms anyway and I know of, and heard of countless stories the same as my own.
I can't see how referencing prophets as messengers in your Shahada can be detrimental, unless you are attempting to compare them to God himself. It probably does explain Sunni-Shia fixation however on particular individuals, and not the full range of messengers and prophets as mentioned in the Quran with stories of trials we can all benefit from.
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Is there a way that I can correct this, if so please comment on information from Quran, for emample the number of witnesses
Reciting Shahada when became Mu'alaf is Sunni's tradition and I'ts not important to do it, because Allah's already knew your commitment in your heart (57).
There is some similiar thread ONE TWO
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I can't see how referencing prophets as messengers in your Shahada can be detrimental, unless you are attempting to compare them to God himself.
The big question should be "what is the so called shahada anyway?".
I think people just walk around thinking of the shahada as some sort of formula that will declare or solidify or initiate you into the associated faith. Seems like people think it starts with shahada. Seems like people think that is important what words the shahada is made up of, as if it was some magic formula. I'm of the opinion that it is not the words themselves that are important, in that it doesn't start with the words. Rather, what is important is WHY we say the words, and what conviction we have behind the words. It is not the words that are important, it is our thinking and perspective which leads us to these words which is the important thing. The shahada is just an expression of our conviction and insight. The only thing that exists is us and our intentions. The words of the shahada don't exist as a separate entity that need to be in a certain form or shape to be correct. We should not believe in magic formulas. We should not create something that doesn't exist. The way we say the shahada has nothing to do with the shahada itself. The way we say the shahada just reflects our inner condition and current understanding. If we e.g. insist in mentioning the name of Muhammad in the shahada, then perhaps it's time we scrutinize ourselves and ask ourselves why we do this. Why do we have a need to mention a human being's name beside God's "name"? Because that's what it is. This is not really about respect as everyone seem to claim. We make it a rule to have another name beside God's. Why? Are we not able to comprehend to bigger picture here? Are we not able to separate God from Creation? Is God just another aspect of Creation to us? Or is it that we are ruled by an ingrained and entrained fear deep within, which frighten us about what will happen if we stop mentioning Muhammad's name in the shahada. Are we afraid that Muhammad will get angry at us, or that God will get angry at us if we'd decide to not mention any other name, i.e. Muhammad's, in the shahada? Let's be honest with ourselves. It really takes some serious soul searching to expose one's own motive for doing various things. Let's realize what society and upbringing is doing to us. It is shaping us, and that's quite natural. But we must be aware of this! We should not think that all we believe and feel comfortable with is something we have chosen and is something that is the best. It is just something that we have been conditioned to believe, whether good or bad. Let's separate our real identity, the soul, from the conditioned identity, the mind patterns. These are not the same at all. Don't make that mistake of mixing them up. So, let's not blame it on the shahada. The shahada doesn't exist. The shahada is just words that we say for different reasons. All reasons and causes are within ourselves. That's where all answers can be found.
So, there is really no question whether there is harm or not in mentioning Muhammad's name in the shahada. What we should ponder however, is how harmful or harmless our personal reasons are for insisting on mentioning Muhammad's name in the shahada, next to God's "name". The only thing that can be bad for us is within us, not outside. And there is a difference between symptom and root cause. The way we say the shahada is the symptom. The root cause is that which makes us say it the way we say it. The words themselves won't do harm, but the reason for those words may. What comes out of us in shape of actions and words are just reflections of our inner state. The shahada is one way it comes out.
But note that there can be many different reason and causes for all we do, and we should absolutely not judge anyone else. This is not about others, or about defining the correct shahada, as if it was a separate entity. What is important is that we keep learning and seriously look into ourselves to cater for further improvement. Guard against stagnation and complacency. Once we stop improving, we're toast.
Cheers folks, and peace!
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You don't need any rituals to convert Islam, nor do you need to read the "shahada." God knows your heart, and He knows if you are indeed His servant. You don't need to correct the shahada anyway, for even if you did read it, God knows if you're a de facto monotheist. Right, you now know God, and you know that you shall serve God and God alone. You should be aware, and uphold God's limits, so you will not become a de facto polytheist.
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/snip/ The shahada is just an expression of our conviction and insight. The only thing that exists is us and our intentions. The words of the shahada don't exist as a separate entity that need to be in a certain form or shape to be correct. We should not believe in magic formulas. We should not create something that doesn't exist. The way we say the shahada has nothing to do with the shahada itself. The way we say the shahada just reflects our inner condition and current understanding. If we e.g. insist in mentioning the name of Muhammad in the shahada, then perhaps it's time we scrutinize ourselves and ask ourselves why we do this. Why do we have a need to mention a human being's name beside God's "name"? /snip/
I do agree with all of this, thinking on this more from my previous post, it fits into the identity politics of it all, by mentioning/not mentioning Muhammed and Ali is setting oneself aside into a particular group and out of the others, this seems to serve more purpose for everyone else witnessing that another has joined their ranks and not that of another group; than the individual pouring out his or her heart in public that they are a monotheist. Going from my own experiences, a lot of 'born' Muslims will doubt the sincerity of a very new Muslim's testament if they haven't witnessed it out of belief they are a spy/troublemaker/only interested in relationships and is very hard for them to accept it at face value until a period of time has passed. This maybe just a UK thing, or a post September 11th/July 7th thing in western countries, I don't know, but I get the impression its wide reaching them and us mentality.
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I do agree with all of this, thinking on this more from my previous post, it fits into the identity politics of it all, by mentioning/not mentioning Muhammed and Ali is setting oneself aside into a particular group and out of the others, this seems to serve more purpose for everyone else witnessing that another has joined their ranks and not that of another group; than the individual pouring out his or her heart in public that they are a monotheist. Going from my own experiences, a lot of 'born' Muslims will doubt the sincerity of a very new Muslim's testament if they haven't witnessed it out of belief they are a spy/troublemaker/only interested in relationships and is very hard for them to accept it at face value until a period of time has passed. This maybe just a UK thing, or a post September 11th/July 7th thing in western countries, I don't know, but I get the impression its wide reaching them and us mentality.
I've also noticed that people often are very suspicious and skeptic. Sometimes it is as if you intrude into their club or domain, and they have to grant you permission to enter. Physical looks can often be a ticket into the club. If you just look like that you are from the right part of the world, people may accept you at literally face value. Those who look different need to prove their worthiness of acceptance, by reciting the shahada and thereby promising you're on their side. This is however just the basic qualifier... of course, suspicion may still remain.
Such suspicious behaviour is actually quite natural. But so is food, sex and securing any basic necessities of life. All living organisms do it to some degree, for survival. The human being is a social animal and being accepted by the pack has been necessary for survival over the eons of human history. To be excommunicated from the pack could well be a death sentence. That's why people are much into consensus and not deviating. It's in the DNA. However, stupidity arises when we stay at that primitive level and don't rise above it. We are afterall human beings, and not animals, so we should not remain at a primitive animal level.
Racism, us-vs-them mentality, sectarianism, are all things that come out when we are being primitive and fearful, when we fail to grasp the unity of the world and the reality of God's presence. As I often feel forced to say The deeper you go into religion, the farther away from God you get.
Peace
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Peace Zulf,
As long as you can keep a healthy balance between simply an organization and religion this is not a negative concept. What differentiates a sect and simple religious organization is that a sect has created religious practices and compulsory rules never authorized by God. This is what a sect is. As long as an organization is simply about worshiping/serving God it cannot fail, but when it starts with vain conjecture is when things go wrong. God's religion is, as we so-called Quran alone already know, very simple to follow and only a few things divide us and only on minor points. Ramadhan and prayers are the main problems, the rest is just irrelevant.
Had it not because of interpretation difficulties of Quran's ancient Arabic we would not have these problems, but I am sure that we can solve this with a bit of honesty and devotion. The Quran was probably dead-easy to interpret 1400 years ago, but sectarian islam has gradually biased the meanings of the old Arabic words that they connote something different. This is why a new scripture or explaining Messenger would be in order who can interpret it independent of linguistic changes.
Jesus came to interpret and elaborate on the mosaic law, so why not another one to thoroughly explain Quran? What puzzles me is so many people are absolutely certain that there is utterly never going to be another lonely warrior, a mercy from the Lord showing up on the face of the Earth once again.
Also in Bible it was prophesied that no more Messenger would come around. It could be merely an interpretive error which cause the masses to believe God would never send a Messenger again.
Have you ever realized that a gang of crazy clergymen have had access to Quran and the exclusive right to interpret it for a thousand years, so why are you so certain that the Quran talks about the absolute end of Messengers? It seems like naivety. Instead pray that there would come for one to set things straight again. To help us solve the simple but dividing disputes we are having.
My motto goes "Everything is possible, nothing is impossible".
God bless you
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Peace Zulf,
As long as you can keep a healthy balance between simply an organization and religion this is not a negative concept. What differentiates a sect and simple religious organization is that a sect has created religious practices and compulsory rules never authorized by God. This is what a sect is. As long as an organization is simply about worshiping/serving God it cannot fail, but when it starts with vain conjecture is when things go wrong. God's religion is, as we so-called Quran alone already know, very simple to follow and only a few things divide us and only on minor points. Ramadhan and prayers are the main problems, the rest is just irrelevant.
Isn't the idea of consensus exactly that of distinguishing from Our views vs Other's views? How do you have consensus and different views at the same time? Either we don't have consensus, or only those who subscribe to the defined set of beliefs can be allowed in the group. It's either or. That is very near to compulsion.
All sects already believe they are "simply worshiping/serving God". Nobody will admit to practice conjecture.
Had it not because of interpretation difficulties of Quran's ancient Arabic we would not have these problems, but I am sure that we can solve this with a bit of honesty and devotion. The Quran was probably dead-easy to interpret 1400 years ago, but sectarian islam has gradually biased the meanings of the old Arabic words that they connote something different. This is why a new scripture or explaining Messenger would be in order who can interpret it independent of linguistic changes.
But then the question is whether we believe the quran is for all time or outdated. Doesn't it claim to be clear, written in an eloquent tongue? If that only applied close to its time of revelation, then we can start dismissing many other things aswell as being archaic and not valid anymore.
The question is, what is needed to being guided by the quran. Is it language or is it al Huda from God? Are the difficulties because of the language or because of our blindness?
Also, when God speaks about completing his blessing on us, does that mean the quran won't cut it anymore, or that we have all we need in terms of external sources of guidance?Jesus came to interpret and elaborate on the mosaic law, so why not another one to thoroughly explain Quran? What puzzles me is so many people are absolutely certain that there is utterly never going to be another lonely warrior, a mercy from the Lord showing up on the face of the Earth once again.
Also in Bible it was prophesied that no more Messenger would come around. It could be merely an interpretive error which cause the masses to believe God would never send a Messenger again.
The readers of the quran believe it partly because of the expression "seal of the prophets". Partly it is also because ALL religions insist that theirs is the final and best and truth. That's just a matter of egoic protection of identity... a mental, though unconscious, survival tactics.
Have you ever realized that a gang of crazy clergymen have had access to Quran and the exclusive right to interpret it for a thousand years, so why are you so certain that the Quran talks about the absolute end of Messengers? It seems like naivety. Instead pray that there would come for one to set things straight again. To help us solve the simple but dividing disputes we are having.
Personally I will not pray for someone else to come and save me... that's too much like christianity. Man kind cannot be forced into goodness. Allah will let those who stray have all the means to do so. We are here to show our real selves through our actions. We are not here to be able to hide behind a good leader pretending to be good ourselves. The truth must out, and Allah will let us go in any direction we choose. For those who are guided and seek God and goodness, there is really no need for any more external guidance in terms of books and what not. A book or a leader will not be able to save us. We can only save ourselves. If we are really on the straight path, then language and distortion won't be a real issue. We all have capacity to sense what's right and wrong within. This is easy when we shed our fears and let go of being ruled by our mind patterns. God say we should not fear anything but God. This is not some intellectual talk, rather it is extremely practical beyond what we usually understand. When you start getting to know a fragment of the grandness and mercy of God, then there is no need for any fears. This is peace, and you will no need books and messengers.
We should not pray for crutches, for assistance between us and God. We should pray straight to God for direct guidance and purification. What else do we need? Don't we trust God to give us this? Really really? We should pray to God for a pure understanding of the quran and life. Can God give us that? Or rather, can we receive that? Where is the weak link? Isn't that weak link us? How will another prophet then save us, if it is our blindness that is the problem?That's how I think of it.
Peace and cheers!My motto goes "Everything is possible, nothing is impossible".
I really like that motto!
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bismillaahi_r_rahmaani_r_rahiym
In the last couple of years I have encountered an aspect of faith that seemed really alien to me at first, declarations. Here at Bethel Church they are firm believers in the power of declaration and if I am honest it has taken me a while to get my head round it. What do I mean by declarations? Great question, I have come to understand declarations as speaking out truth over my life or speaking out loud what I want to see happen. My initial reservations were mainly due to a misunderstanding of what this looked like. I did not want to be the sort of person who just said positive things that felt empty or untrue. Something in the DNA of a Scot rejects strongly the idea of being a hypocrite! As I have learnt more and understood however my eyes have been opened to the weight that our words carry and the power of declarations
Read more
http//thewholerealm.com/2013/02/26/the-power-of-declarations/#more-1023
Peace -
Peace Zulf,
Well. In a way that reasoning is right, but with an honest heart one can see that the sectarian belief system is tainted by external sources and superstition. It is true that no one will admit it and Quran talks about it too that they say "but we are guided". Hypocrisy is the English term or "skenhelig" as I like to put it in Swedish which I prefer. Can you not see contradiction in the worship practices of the sectarian people if you compare it to Quran?
The Quran boasts the things you wrote, but that is not its fault but man. Our twisting of words has left it difficult to interpret while it should not be. The Book is timeless, but it is also of course written so that it suits an audience 1400 years ago. Its direct target is the contemporary people living back then to most extent, this is an undeniable fact interpreting the passages I think. We have to make a distinction. While it speaks directly addressing these people we might also be affected because we are of the same religion since the Message and commandments have been the same all the time except a very few cases where God has adjusted things such as sex during Ramadhan nights for example. I am suspecting that Ramadhan itself it also misunderstood but since I do not know better I am still fasting this month per year because I am afraid that my doubts may be wrong.
It is dangerous to reason that we need external sources to interpret Quran and even the mere usage of dictionaries, but these are still better than hearsay since you can interpret more yourself.
I only pray to God to send a Messenger to clarify what I know wrong since God does not show Himself not to spoil His test. However, the Messenger can be an angel/controller too. I do not mind. Or a particularly blessed man who later is revealed to have been a secret Messenger. Angels come disguised as men too so you need to keep your perception at maximum.
I believe in blessed men and so on. So a man can save us but only through God's grace. God sometimes works His marvels through ordinary men as you can see in history. It did not necessarily end a millennium ago.
The signs or Messengers alone do not save us but God.
You are right. We need neither. It is a slight egotistical thought that it would be comfortable to not have any doubts that I misinterpret the Book. I surely can reach Heaven without them if I persevere and work righteousness.
I like your myriad of different angles which is the trait of a free-minded person. God bless you
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Salam, I have a question about shahada.
When I reverted to islam I took the standard sunn7 shahada that included the prophets name, is my shahada witnessed by Allah swt? Or valid at all. Is there a way that I can correct this, if so please comment on information from Quran, for emample the number of witnesses
Much thanks and salamSalaam,
Please take a look at this thread, inshaAllah, it will help you.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
I find the shahada ceremony to be a good occasion, wonderful to see someone who verifies
that they are muslim. My niece took shahada two years ago, many family members were
present, my nephew conducted the ceremony (minus the Muhammad part), afterwards
we celebrated, everyone was happy. It was a great occasion. Those who did not want
to participate stayed away. Of course God is witness of all things and if one is alone then
God is sufficient.There was another time another family member inquired about shahada but declined
before the ceremony because of doubt. Masha'allahGod bless
peace
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Salam, I have a question about shahada.
When I reverted to islam I took the standard sunn7 shahada that included the prophets name, is my shahada witnessed by Allah swt? Or valid at all. Is there a way that I can correct this, if so please comment on information from Quran, for emample the number of witnesses
Much thanks and salamSalam my sister,
All human actions, statements, and thoughts are witnessed by GOD; The All-knowing / All-hearing. Thus, GOD is (indeed) aware of your testimony; however ... see 12106; 2165; The correct (monotheistic) "Shahada" in the sight of GOD is to be found in the Qur'an, Surah 3 Verse 18; which states the following
GOD bears witness that there is no Divinity but HE - and (so do) the angels and the owners of knowledge - standing up for justice; there is no Divinity but HE, The Mighty, The Wise.
As you can see, there is no "Muhammad rasulullah" in the Qur'anic Shahada. Further, including " " in the verse does in no way mean they are included in the shahada; rather it denotes that THIS (i.e. The Shahada of ALLH) is also the testimony of the angels and the knowledgeable among us. Note that GOD repeated " " TWICE! This confirms that there is no place for the name of "Muhammad" (pbuh) in the "monotheistic" Shahada. and GOD Almighty knows best.
PS I declare the shahada several times a day.
Hope this helps.
SLM -
The Quran boasts the things you wrote, but that is not its fault but man. Our twisting of words has left it difficult to interpret while it should not be. The Book is timeless, but it is also of course written so that it suits an audience 1400 years ago. Its direct target is the contemporary people living back then to most extent, this is an undeniable fact interpreting the passages I think.
You claim that the "Quran boasts the things you wrote, but that is not its fault but man". The author of the Quran is Allah (glorified is He). The implication is that Allah boasts of things that He can not deliver on because of the actions of mankind. That is unacceptable. Allah has perfect foresight, and He knew exactly what mankind would do. He is not bound by time, waiting to find out what happens, like we are.
The audience of the Quran is mankind and jinn. It does seem like some verses are more relevant to different people at different times - some of the assertions about the natural world were not verifiable by mankind until recent breakthroughs in technology occurred for example - but still, the Quran is always a clear and complete guide, and that will never be any less true than it was when the Quran was revealed. It's just that not every verse was meant to be fully appreciated by every recipient.
It's worth remembering that none of us even manage to do the basic stuff in practice. Is there anyone here who couldn't spend more time worshipping Allah, who couldn't do a bit more for people less fortunate than themselves, who never fails in any obligations... We all know enough about Islam to know that there are a lot of things we could do to be better Muslims, and we know exactly what they are, so we have more than adequate guidance for our individual needs. Once a person practices the core of Islam so perfectly that they need to understand the more complex aspects of the theology to be able to improve, I have absolute faith that they will not find the Quran lacking.
