Islam's view on Marijuana

tarmo

you know the word veil ?

I see that intoxicant is substance which 1) changes condition AND 2) clouds/obscures intellect.
But cannabis is a substant which 1) changes condition AND 2) makes intellect clearer / lift the veil.

So cannabis is exactly the opposite to what is ?intoxicant`.

tarmo

LOL ... good one.

I hope that was a joke, cuz it wuz pretty funny.

Product information of just one breed for you as an example

Barneys Farm G13 Haze

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The G13 legend lives on with this remarkable G13 cross developed from the world famous G13 and our favourite Hawaiian Sativa. Stays short for a mostly sativa plant and has extraordinary density of flower structure with heavy resin production Ideal for SOG & ScrOG gardens.
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Orientation Regular & Feminized
Type Sativa dominant
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Yield Optimum indoor. 500 gr/m2
Indoor Height 70 -? 80 cm
Indoor flowering time 70 to 80 days
Outdoor harvest time Mid October
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If you just care to take more interest on the subject, you would see, that many breeds have positive effect to your brain.

http//www.cannabis-seeds.co.uk/product_images/1114/1/g13-haze.jpg

http//www.dope-seeds.com/barneys_farm.htm

c0de

Product information of just one breed for you as an example

If you just care to take more interest on the subject, you would see, that many breeds have positive effect to your brain.

(lol) dude, I have smoked more breeds of bud in my 24 years then you probably will in your life. (I can guarantee you this, even though I have never met you). The first time I dropped Acid I was 17... So spare me the lecture on drugs bro If your argument of "lifting the veil" was valid, then marijuana isn't even comparable to some of the other chemical drugs which I (used to believe) were much better for this purpose.

It was only 3 years ago that I understood how the harm of drugs is more then their benefit... There is no "lifting the veil"... You are kidding yourself (like I was) thinking that you can achieve esoteric knowledge of reality by using drugs. There is only one way to "lift the veil" and that requires an actual struggle... There are no short-cuts...

So please, stop misleading yourself, and others about these things. And I say this to you not because I want to disrespect you bro, but because I used to tell people these exact things which you are telling me... And believe me, its all BS.... I lost 10 years of my life because of this stuff... (half of them I can't even remember)

tarmo

hey
you should understand that there is very big difference between

consuming God given plant cannabis - without alc, with fresh fruits, gym, etc - healty.
or consuming synthetically manipulated manmade products AND cannabis.

do you catch the difference between God given plant (a fruit) and manmade poison?

1432 God is the One who created the heavens and the Earth, and He sent down water from the sky and brought out fruits as provisions for you, and He committed for you the ships to run in the sea by His command, and He committed for you the rivers.
1433 And He committed for you the sun and the moon, both in continuity; and He committed for you the night and the day.
1434 And He gave you all that you have asked Him. And if you were to count God?s blessings, you will never fathom them. The human is indeed transgressing, disbelieving.

One must understand that the fruits are God?s provisions and gifts.
It?s a place to be grateful for His blessings.

Note there is not many clearer ways to put it in words.

And ofcourse - its all about balance.
If you could not keep the balance and do all things all the time, its simply too much. As would also be the case with any other substant. If you eat sugar all day, its not normal, also. You know, there were times, when salt eating was addiction.

c0de

hey
you should understand that there is very big difference between

consuming God given plant cannabis - without alc, with fresh fruits, gym, etc - healty.
or consuming synthetically manipulated manmade products AND cannabis.

do you catch the difference between God given plant (a fruit) and manmade poison?

1432 God is the One who created the heavens and the Earth, and He sent down water from the sky and brought out fruits as provisions for you, and He committed for you the ships to run in the sea by His command, and He committed for you the rivers.
1433 And He committed for you the sun and the moon, both in continuity; and He committed for you the night and the day.
1434 And He gave you all that you have asked Him. And if you were to count God?s blessings, you will never fathom them. The human is indeed transgressing, disbelieving.

One must understand that the fruits are God?s provisions and gifts.
It?s a place to be grateful for His blessings.

Note there is not many clearer ways to put it in words.

And ofcourse - its all about balance.
If you could not keep the balance and do all things all the time, its simply too much. As would also be the case with any other substant. If you eat sugar all day, its not normal, also. You know, there were times, when salt eating was addiction.

Invalid argument, alcoholic drinks also come from a "God given plants," remember?
Wine, Vodka, Beer, Rum... they all come from natural, God made substances. That has nothing to do with it.
That is all besides the point. The point is that the effects of weed cloud the mind.
So they are included in the definition of "khamr", it is THAT simple.

Do you know that right now, in Canada, you can get charged for DUI (Driving Under the Influence) for weed?

c0de

p.s.

By the way, opium also comes from a natural "God given plant"...
So does cocaine...

Alen

"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much are they to give, Say ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (2219)

Bro Layth's article on Alcohol is quite fitting on this subject. Good exposition. I guess it would be the same for intoxicants such as marijuana.

Peace,
Respectfully.

Well said, i totally forgot about this verse but it fits, AlhamdilAllah, Thank God, Hvala Bogu.
God bless you.

Peace.

tarmo

c0de,

does cannabis clouds ones mind or not, it depends.
different people are influenced by energys differently.

for example, there are on Earth many places, which have powerful energyfields.
if spiritual person with pure thoughts visits such place, s/he may experience very positive spiritual experience.
while sceptics may feel no difference or have a bad experience.

such energies magnify what is within.
its all about energies anyway. if you go deep into human cell, the smallest thing you have is vibration.

our earthly experiences are different.
for example, these are different experiences if one uses synthetic narcotic substances or one doesnt use them.
with chemical interventions in labs new substances born. While God given substances and psychedelics are safe, man made may not be.

btw, in Greek psyche - soul ja deloo - expose
psychedelia - exposing soul

c0de

our earthly experiences are different.
for example, these are different experiences if one uses synthetic narcotic substances or one doesnt use them.
with chemical interventions in labs new substances born. While God given substances and psychedelics are safe, man made may not be.

Ok... did you even read the last post? Are you paying attention? I gave you MULTIPLE examples of natural God given substances which cloud the intellect Opium, Cocaine, and all the alcoholic drinks for example. This has nothing to do with the "naturalness" of substances.

does cannabis clouds ones mind or not, it depends.
different people are influenced by energys differently.

No, it doesn't "depend"... And it has nothing to do with relative influences. It clouds the intellect of EVERYONE in equal proportion. A "spiritual" person is less "spiritual" when high, and a stupid person is even more stupid when stoned. No one gets smarter or more "spiritual" on weed.

for example, there are on Earth many places, which have powerful energyfields.
if spiritual person with pure thoughts visits such place, s/he may experience very positive spiritual experience.
while sceptics may feel no difference or have a bad experience.

such energies magnify what is within.
its all about energies anyway. if you go deep into human cell, the smallest thing you have is vibration.

(lol) Dude... this stuff your trying to pull is not going to work on me.... because all of this stuff you are saying I used to tell other people. I don't want to sound rude, but its total BS... and I was full of it at one time. So spare me the lecture on "spiritual energies" thank you.

PeAcE

tarmo

Ok... did you even read the last post? Are you paying attention? I gave you MULTIPLE examples of natural God given substances which cloud the intellect Opium, Cocaine, and all the alcoholic drinks for example. This has nothing to do with the "naturalness" of substances.

you dont understand that cocain and opium are not God given substances. God gave coca bush. And man makes from it cocain.
God gave poppy and man makes from it opium. And later they make from opium heroin.

tarmo

my point is that plants are ok. cocain, heroin and alcohol are not plants. cannabis is a plant.

there are plants with psyhchoactive compound called Ibogaine which have a good ?eyeopener? effect. Ibogaine makes people understand that they should leave behind heroin, cocain, alcohol and tobacco addictions.

see introduction video
http//video.yahoo.com/watch/640900/3000389
see introduction movie
http//www.lunartproductions.com/

c0de

my point is that plants are ok. cocain, heroin and alcohol are not plants. cannabis is a plant.

So according to your argument it is okay to eat all of the poisonous plants out there? Just because they are "plants"? (lol) Your entire argument is based on the fact that just because cannabis is a plant, it is okay and allowed by God? When God has made all the good AND all the evil, and has forbidden us the evil things for a reason, because their harm is greater then their benefit.

there are plants with psyhchoactive compound called Ibogaine which have a good ?eyeopener? effect. Ibogaine makes people understand that they should leave behind heroin, cocain, alcohol and tobacco addictions.

see introduction video
http//video.yahoo.com/watch/640900/3000389
see introduction movie
http//www.lunartproductions.com/

Any genuine "eyeopener" effect is given by God, not the plant. And He is able to open or close anyone's eyes at will. It has nothing to do with the drugs.

tarmo

So according to your argument it is okay to eat all of the poisonous plants out there? Just because they are "plants"? (lol) Your entire argument is based on the fact that just because cannabis is a plant, it is okay and allowed by God? When God has made all the good AND all the evil, and has forbidden us the evil things for a reason, because their harm is greater then their benefit.

i didnt say that its ok to eat all plants.
what I say is that when stimulating your brain, choose natural God given plants over manmade substances.
obviously!

Any genuine "eyeopener" effect is given by God, not the plant. And He is able to open or close anyone's eyes at will.
ofcourse. (but this was very simplified statement.)

my point with you is that if you mixed chemical narcotics and cannabis together, then you are not in a position to have a clear view on cannabis. your opinion goes to the mind alerting mix. and ofcourse, this mix cant be same as only cannabis.
its same with persons who drink alcohol and smoke cannabis together. i talked with such person yesterday. not nice. also.

tarmo

my point with you is that if you mixed chemical narcotics and cannabis together, then you are not in a position to have a clear view on cannabis. your opinion goes to the mind alerting mix. and ofcourse, this mix cant be same as only cannabis.
its same with persons who drink alcohol and smoke cannabis together. i talked with such person yesterday. not nice. also.

and its the same as to read the (God given) quran and follow (manmade) sunnah at the same time. then reject islam and say its all BS.

O0

c0de

i didnt say that its ok to eat all plants.
what I say is that when stimulating your brain, choose natural God given plants over manmade substances.
obviously!
ofcourse. (but this was very simplified statement.)

But I already gave you the example of Opium, which has no other substances added. Nor do alcoholic beverages add any chemicals in the brewing proccess. They are made completely naturally. These examples have already nullified your whole argument bro.

and its the same as to read the (God given) quran and follow (manmade) sunnah at the same time. then reject islam and say its all BS.

The problem for you isn't the Sunnah, the Quran itself rejects cannabis as it fits into the definition of khamr. It clouds the intellect and this is a fact. In Canada you are not allowed to drive under its influence, did you know that? It is illegal to do so because of its impairing effects.

my point with you is that if you mixed chemical narcotics and cannabis together, then you are not in a position to have a clear view on cannabis. your opinion goes to the mind alerting mix. and ofcourse, this mix cant be same as only cannabis.
its same with persons who drink alcohol and smoke cannabis together. i talked with such person yesterday. not nice. also.

Actually, I am in a better position then you. I used it in the past, but I am no longer dependent on it, so my view is not biased, like yours.

PeAcE

tarmo

UNION - its a movie which tells you all you need to know about cannabis.

http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007&ei=eja6SdS5BIPg

Already first 4 minutes says much important things.
Cannabis was the biggest crop in the world, before it got criminalised 100 years ago, in wrong reasons, mostly because of greed. It has been legal for hundreds and thousands of years in the past.

c0de

Cannabis was the biggest crop in the world, before it got criminalised 100 years ago, in wrong reasons, mostly because of greed. It has been legal for hundreds and thousands of years in the past.

I know about the (fake) political drug war, and I don't support it. I am not defending the actions of the governments, because I know they are a political stunt. My argument has nothing to do with politics. You have to prove that weed is not included in the definition of khamr, and until you do, you have no case.

tarmo

I know about the (fake) political drug war, and I don't support it. I am not defending the actions of the governments, because I know they are a political stunt. My argument has nothing to do with politics. You have to prove that weed is not included in the definition of khamr, and until you do, you have no case.
you know, i didnt argue with you, when i posted my last post. its a information for those who dont know, not to you specially. dont take everything personally.

to get heroin from opium, you have to add to opium some substances.
for example if you add some wierd substances to gasoline, would you consume the result as a drug?
normal people don?t and won?t. and they don?t consume opium either. but some people consume opium+something = heroin.
you cant make heroin from natural plant. its like plastic, made from petroleum, normal people just dont consume it!

Actually, I am in a better position then you. I used it in the past, but I am no longer dependent on it, so my view is not biased, like yours.

i dont know you, bro. i know you used chemicals. this puts you to a position to talk about chemicals.
you propably consumed LSD. there are God given mushrooms, many kind of them. they give you alsmost the same trip as LSD but they are clean. clean because they are in balance. thy have psychoactive substances and also balancing substances. LSD have only psychoacyive substances. as i sayd before. you can (and should) but your trust in God (as the quran telles you to) but you should not put your trust in chemicists.

those who read the quran and hadits dont know what is pure quran-based islam. they only know what is the quran + hadits.
you did cannabis and also manmade substances, so you dont know what is the pure cannabis. you only know what is cannabis + synthetically maniplulated materials. this position is not comparable with someone who has s/he?s trust in God (and God given provisions) alone.

c0de

you know, i didnt argue with you, when i posted my last post. its a information for those who dont know, not to you specially. dont take everything personally.

whose taking what personally? (lol)

to get heroin from opium, you have to add to opium some substances.
for example if you add some wierd substances to gasoline, would you consume the result as a drug?
normal people don?t and won?t. and they don?t consume opium either. but some people consume opium+something = heroin.
you cant make heroin from natural plant. its like plastic, made from petroleum, normal people just dont consume it!

Bro Opium is a drug by itself. The whole Chinese nation was addicted to it at one time. Heroin is a purified version of opium, but opium is totally natural.

i dont know you, bro. i know you used chemicals. this puts you to a position to talk about chemicals.
you propably consumed LSD. there are God given mushrooms, many kind of them. they give you alsmost the same trip as LSD but they are clean. clean because they are in balance. thy have psychoactive substances and also balancing substances. LSD have only psychoacyive substances. as i sayd before. you can (and should) but your trust in God (as the quran telles you to) but you should not put your trust in chemicists.

I have consumed shrooms many times, and they are no more "clean" then LSD. This is just more evidence against your argument. There might be differences, but you can not claim that one is khamr, and the other is not.

those who read the quran and hadits dont know what is pure quran-based islam. they only know what is the quran + hadits.
you did cannabis and also manmade substances, so you dont know what is the pure cannabis. you only know what is cannabis + synthetically maniplulated materials. this position is not comparable with someone who has s/he?s trust in God (and God given provisions) alone.

Dude, please stay on topic. Were talking about the status of these drugs with regards to the Quran, nothing else. And you have to prove that these natural substances are not khamr, when I am telling you that they are.

PeAcE

tarmo

you have to prove that these natural substances are not khamr, when I am telling you that they are.

i have proved to myself. and i have proved here.
its you who say, ?hei i am a longtime addict i know?. i just say that your statements are nothing more than ?follow me, i know?. but you dont come with evidences.

peace