caliph umar converts dumping ground into a "holy" site

belH

So the quraan is not as detailed as it claims to be? Same argument of hadithisits when promoting hadith.

Peace
There is a huge different between Hadith and Torah & Injeel; God ordered us to uphold the Torah and Injeel, and Reject the Hadith. If you want to call me Quraniest-Injeelist-Torahist, please feel free to do so.
Now I'm sure that you are not from those who are firm in Knowledge

4162 But those of them who are firm in knowledge, as well as the believers, they believe in what was sent down to you and what was sent down before you; and those who uphold the communion, and those who contribute towards betterment, and those who believe in God and the Last Day; to these We will give them their reward greatly.

thegod

belh-If God says to believe in the Injeel and Torah as we Believe in Quran, if we want to be true moslems, then the Injeel and Torah exist and the Dead Sea Scroll are the Ones the we should be considering.

grin

Now the dead sea scrolls are the torah & the injeel? No wonder u do not know isaiah from jesus.

But I see an improvement; u do admit that all ur life u were following the books of jews & christians, rather than the quraan. -)

Now, can v finally see some writings from the injeel?

ma'a salaam

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

belH

belh-If God says to believe in the Injeel and Torah as we Believe in Quran, if we want to be true moslems, then the Injeel and Torah exist and the Dead Sea Scroll are the Ones the we should be considering.

grin

Now the dead sea scrolls are the torah & the injeel? No wonder u do not know isaiah from jesus.

But I see an improvement; u do admit that all ur life u were following the books of jews & christians, rather than the quraan. -)

Now, can v finally see some writings from the injeel?

ma'a salaam

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

Your plan is to discredit all the existing Torah and Injeel, and all the discoveries of the Dead Sea Scroll and NajaHammadi; why? because all show Jerusalem to be the place where house of all exist.

Teachers of lies have comforted your people
and now they stumble, foolishly.
They abhor themselves
and do not esteem me through whom your wonders
and powers are manifest.
They have banished me from my land like a bird
from its nest, and my friends
and neighbors are driven from me.
They think me a broken pot.
They preach lies. They are dissembling prophets.
They devise baseness against me,
exchanging your teaching, written in my heart,
for smooth words.
They deny knowledge to the thirsty
and force them to drink vinegar to cover up error.
They stumble through mad feasts,
but you, God, spurn the schemes of Belial (Iblias).

You can drink your vinegar, but you will not make me or any other believer to drink it.
Unless you show us well-established verses prove that the House is in Mecca and not Baca, you have nothing.

thegod

belh-

I thought u had given up on the books of rejectors because they are not original writings; but where else can u find ur holy temple? -)

The fact remains that ur holy temple is found only in ur holy books, & not in the quraan. & to show that the graveyard-house of foxes & pigs is holy, u are adding any & every writing u can find to ur library of holy books. What is pitiful is that u don't know isa from isaiah - do u want me to educate u about ur own holy books? -)

I am satisfied with the quraan, & the rejectors with their holy books. The bayt of abraham & ishmael is extra-biblical concept, & the rejectors are not going to indulge it; & a holy temple of solomon is extra-quraanic concept, & I am not to indulge the claims of rejectors. -)

A remark - I have added ur failure to locate the injeel (to complete ur faith) to ur list of failures. -)

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'alaameen

belH

belh-

The fact remains that ur holy temple is found only in ur holy books, & not in the quraan.

Jeruslam is the place according to Quran, Bible, and Quran...moreover, all the archaeology data shows that Jeruslam is the place where the Prophets lived and preached their Message. Even Prophet Mohamed, according to Quran have confronted Jews and Christians who lived in the City Where the House of Allah exist; now, is there any trace of Jews Temples or Christian Churches in Mecca?....NO Of course the Hadithes talks about Jews Tribes, but they forgot to mention any thing about Christians rotfl

O you who believe, those who have set up partners are impure, so let them not approach the Sacred Temple after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then God will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
928

Fight those who do not believe in God or the Last Day, nor do they forbid what God and His messenger have forbidden, nor do they uphold the system of truth - from among the people who have been given the Scripture - until they pay the reparation, willingly or unwillingly, and they are subdued.
929

The Jews said ?Ezra is God?s son,? and the Nazarenes said ?The Messiah is God?s son.? Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth!
930

They took their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god but He, be He glorified for what they set up.
931

According to God, Christians and Jews Were living in the City where the House of Allah exist; moreover, the Prophet Fought against them when conquesting the House in Bacca...The house that has Makam Abraham...The House the true believers should make pilgrim to... yes

belH

thegod;

Here is one of the sorry attempts that was done by your brother Zaghlool Al-Najjar to prove that Macca is the place, using the Bible.

http//www.answering-christianity.com/paran.htm

I know you will like...have fun while drinking vinegar

thegod

belh-

The jews & christians didn't live only in jerusalem; only an illiterate who thinks isa & isaih are same not know this. Nor would that illiterate know that jerusalem's history is well-known, & muhammad cannot be placed there; & the rejectors have always disputed, in conformity with the quraan. -)

I see that ur new holy books tell u that christ was god who lived among men. Have u already started worshipping christ? What is the next addition to ur library of holy books, maybe the book of mormons? grin

Consider a sad & pitiful liar who talks about history, & he knows nothing. & he cannot tell isa from isaiah, nor the injeel from the new testament. & he keeps clinging to his holy books, despite admitting that they are not original writings. & he clings to his holy books to uphold a concept not found in the quraan. & he worships at graveyards of humans & pigs. & he lies everytime he speaks. & he rejects what is in the quraan. & he has taken up a book which tells christ is god as his latest holy book. Is not such a one a replica of the rejectors of yore, who would dispute about matters whereof they had little or no knowledge (365-66)?

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

belH

belh-

The jews & christians didn't live only in jerusalem;

Great, let us build a constructive solution to your sorry post...Can you prove that Christians lived in Mecca?

thegod

belh-Great, let us build a constructive solution to your sorry post...Can you prove that Christians lived in Mecca?

Do u claim that jews & christians lived only in jerusalem?

& what is "great" about worshipping christ; clarify whether or not u take the dead sea scrolls which talk about christ being god as ur holy book.

& when considering the replica of rejectors of yore, also consider that he fishes at the dead sea. -)

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

belH

belh-Great, let us build a constructive solution to your sorry post...Can you prove that Christians lived in Mecca?

Do u claim that jews & christians lived only in jerusalem?

Let us stick to your sorry Post...Again, and please stop running around and give me a straight answer

Can you prove that Christians lived in Mecca?

thegod

belh-Let us stick to your sorry Post...Again, and please stop running around and give me a straight answer

Can you prove that Christians lived in Mecca?

Yet another sad lie. It's been ages since I asked u to contradict jerusalem's history & prove that muhammd was there, & u have been hiding away. -)

Now ur illiterate claim seems to be that christians & jews lived only in jerusalem. Is that ur claim? Clarify this & v can proceed.

& do u still worship christ, & fish at dead sea? -)

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'alameen

thegod

belh-

the godless Saracens entered the holy city of Christ our Lord, Jerusalem, with the permission of God and in punishment for our negligence, which is considerable, and immediately proceeded in haste to the place which is called the Capitol. They took with them men, some by force, others by their own will, in order to clean that place and to build that cursed thing, intended for their prayer and which they call a mosque (midzgitha).

That is the testimony of somebody whose beliefs are in sync with ur holy books (he is a christ-worshipper).

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598103.0

A testimony from a jew

"The increased hostility of the Byzantine empire towards its Jewish communities during the late sixth and early seventh century, which culminated in Heraclius' decree ordering their compulsory baptism, make it unsurprising that a number of Jews should hail the Arab conquerors as deliverers.

Now contradict the accounts of ur fellow-believers in bible. -)

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'alaameen

Samia

Peace
There is a huge different between Hadith and Torah & Injeel; God ordered us to uphold the Torah and Injeel, and Reject the Hadith. If you want to call me Quraniest-Injeelist-Torahist, please feel free to do so.
Now I'm sure that you are not from those who are firm in Knowledge

Salaam

Don't bother about evaluating my knowledge. this is not why I am on this forum.
I am trying to draw your attention to the flaw in your understanding of the command to uphold the previous scriptures. We do not have to search for them and learn their languages, since God told us that what we have is the complete, detailed and final book. Those scriptures, or what to uphold in them, is already there in the qur'aan.

The comparison with hadiths comes from your sentence

But some times a story in Quran can be brief but is more detailed in Bible or Torah.

If God wants us to uphold these scriptures for the details of the stories of past prophets and messengers, then why not uphold hadith for the same reason? At least the past scriptures do not have the "detailed stories" of the life of Muhammad and his whereabouts, but the hadith does.

belH

Peace all

Now ur illiterate claim seems to be that christians & jews lived only in jerusalem. Is that ur claim? Clarify this & v can proceed.

To help in getting you out of your Misery, I will answer...Ready
Yes Christians and Jews lived everywhere and are living everywhere EXCEPT in MECCA...Now can you prove otherwise...

Salaam

Don't bother about evaluating my knowledge. this is not why I am on this forum.
I am trying to draw your attention to the flaw in your understanding of the command to uphold the previous scriptures. We do not have to search for them and learn their languages, since God told us that what we have is the complete, detailed and final book. Those scriptures, or what to uphold in them, is already there in the qur'aan.

Ok...based on this, Where is the House of God that Prophet Abraham called the humans to make pilgrim to? Is it Mecca or Jerusalem, according to Quran? Please provide a decisive verse that would end this debate.

The comparison with hadiths comes from your sentence
If God wants us to uphold these scriptures for the details of the stories of past prophets and messengers, then why not uphold hadith for the same reason? At least the past scriptures do not have the "detailed stories" of the life of Muhammad and his whereabouts, but the hadith does.

Good point...And that is why I have been saying that the Quran should be our measure to judge the Translation of the old scriptures and Hadithes...in other words, any thing, from hadith and the Old Scriptures, contradicts the Quran is False.

thegod

belh-

An (illiterate) blanket statement is not what u needed to come up with. I do see a confession of ur illiteracy; albeit the confession is itself laden with ignorance. The goverment has made the haram area of both mecca & medina forbidden to non-muslims, not just to jews & christians. However, at the time of the advent of islaam, the jews & christians were present from the north to the south, including the current hejaz area. If u can, then prove this wrong.

Are u not happy with the testimonies of ur fellow-believers? -)

The killer's shrine where ur unidentified tombs are located is in hebron; the unholy temple is at jerusalem. The graveyards of pigs & that of humans are at seperate locations; the unholy temple does not exist at the location of the unidentified tombs -- will that help a bible-lover?

Further, the unholy temple at the graveyard of pigs attributed to solomon could not have existed until solomon. And solomon did not exist until much later after abraham & ishamel. But can a biblite do other than dispute whereof he has no knowledge? -)

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

thegod

belh-

Let me put this in a simple & easy-to-understand manner

The unidentified tombs in the killer's shrine are located at hebron; this cemetery of humans is revered by rejectors & sectarians.
The unholy temple attributed to solomon is said to have stood at jerusalem; this cemetery of pigs & foxes is revered by rejectors & sectarians.
Hebron & city of shalim are two different locations; if u claim that the human graveyard is the location of the bayt of ur god, then, the animal graveyard cannot be the location of the bayt of ur god.
The original construction of the unholy temple is attributed to solomon, while the bayt of God involves abraham & ishmael. If u take ur unholy temple as the bayt of ur god, then ur temple did not exist until solomon, who was born long after abraham & ishmael.

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

Samia

Ok...based on this, Where is the House of God that Prophet Abraham called the humans to make pilgrim to? Is it Mecca or Jerusalem, according to Quran? Please provide a decisive verse that would end this debate.

There's no "house". A house is a physical structure that can be empty (like the black room in Makkah), but a "bayt" can't be empty, and is not necessarily a physical structure, otherwise, how many rooms are there in the bayt of "al albayt"? So, no physical place either. The "bayt" of God is the main concept of His system and his whereabouts is where there's "no shirk" (6151-153).

Good point...And that is why I have been saying that the Quran should be our measure to judge the Translation of the old scriptures and Hadithes...in other words, any thing, from hadith and the Old Scriptures, contradicts the Quran is False.

Fair enough. I am glad we are more in agreement than disagreement.

thegod

samia-but a "bayt" can't be empty, and is not necessarily a physical structure, otherwise, how many rooms are there in the bayt of "al albayt"?

What do u imply when u say that a bayt "is not necessarily a physical structure"? The rest is ur invention.

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

Rami

Al-Bayt is a physical structure where the offerings reach to be sacrificed and cooked in the Hajj. It is not an abstract nor a concept. It is the house of God. People have to visit this house in the Hajj.

Peace.

Samia

What do u imply when u say that a bayt "is not necessarily a physical structure"? The rest is ur invention.

Al-Bayt is a physical structure where the offerings reach to be sacrificed and cooked in the Hajj. It is not an abstract nor a concept. It is the house of God. People have to visit this house in the Hajj.

I already gave you a hint aal albayt . How is it translated? People of the house?
Please scan the quraan for "bayt", and show where it means an empty house. The "house" in Makkah is an empty one. God is not in it.