Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory
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peace
my comment to zainab was based on what she's been posting on this thread. It's one insult after another. A large majority of her posts are about how stupid people at FM are. My question was, why waste your time here, when you get nothing out of it?
anyway, zainab addressed my post, so it's the case is closed.
peaceThat's better .. if your poor sporting spirit and insufficient perception makes it difficult for you to cope with my rejoinders (simple as they are, which you refer to as "insults", you might as well 'close' the 'case.' Perhaps now it might be clearer to you why I talk about 'stupidity' out here.
Of course, needless to say .. if I do actually use 'insults,' the "terrors" use it too, and much more. They also use physical threats.
Also, I'll say again, and as many times as I deem proper .. insults are harmless, never a violation of rights or security. But physical threats come in the category of an offence according to law. Defending it only makes matters worse.
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Salaam To The Self Appointed Massive Online Terrorist aka phoenix1
Your observations of Zainab are bias because I can literally quote your comrades in this thread alone and many other threads including the threads that Zainab started where they attacked her, where the tough guys ganged up on her and used words that were not so nice. So your complaint is bias and u also made the same complaint about myself. Sister Zainab is a strong woman and she is in here debating with men and I take my hat off to her for that. She can intellectual debate and exchange the same level of blows that your comrades have dished out to her.
Salaam
peace
my comment to zainab was based on what she's been posting on this thread. It's one insult after another. A large majority of her posts are about how stupid people at FM are. My question was, why waste your time here, when you get nothing out of it?
anyway, zainab addressed my post, so it's the case is closed.
peace -
Salaam.
Zainab is the most intelligent person here on this forum among the sisters. I think that those guys who attack her are only jealous and maybe even intimidated by her wisdom and excellent personality.
I know this is true, because when i was in 4th grade, i remember the two most intelligent girls always had As, best grades, best answers, they were the best students and i was always admiring them but only from the distance. I knew that i couldn't compete with them, so at least i stayed away from them.
Now, i have the Qur'an and i can, Thank Allah Most merciful, approach them and recognise them. Earlier, when i was a sunni and prayed 5 times a day, i only followed the crowd of sunnis and did what they did and kept quiet.
Not anymore. I have my own brain and i'm using it.
Word of advice if you can't compete with Zainab, and you can't, either change the subject, go talk to someone else, forum is big or better, don't talk. Because not talking is better than insulting. Your insults only hurt yourself.Zainab, keep up the good work, sister and stay strong.
May Allah Most Merciful reward you with paradise, sister.Salaam. jedi
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This thread has gone OT since quite some time now. I apologise for not reading it sooner. Please start another thread in this section if one wishes to continue. This will be a fresh start so please keep it clean and on topic. Thanks.
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selam "al-khidr"
the "mathematical structure" of salaat has already been exposed, which proves that it is non-significant.
For verification, visit http//www.quran-islam.org/178.htmlAs Salaamu Alaykum Arnold
In regards to your opinion in terms of my approach my response is found here posted Jan. 6, 2006, where you and I had our first encounter
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5711.30
You may not like what I say but you can?t deny it and that?s the real issue at hand, not personal opinions on styles of approach. I have done extensive research on the ?3 Salaat Theory? and you could not intellectually refute any of the arguments and I think that says a lot. Anybody is welcome to bring forth arguments that is how we learn but Arnold with all your statements (opinions), you as of the present can?t bring forth any? But that does not surprise me because you on the other hand are confused on whether it?s 5 or 3 Salaat and that?s fine I?m not placing judgment there, we are all human. I do not have all the knowledge, I?m just as human as everybody else, but what I do know is that there is 5 Salaat times or periods in the Holy Qur?aan and you cannot intellectually refute any of my arguments. Below is your statement
?But i do need more reference if it is 3 or 5 using an OBJECTIVE mind, which i believe you haven't used.?
In your response Arnold you have presented opinion after opinion or statement after statement, which is again different from FACTS/EVIDENCE. We as humans all have opinions and that?s cool but as long as we understand the difference between the two. I will wait for you to remove or transcend your statement or opinion with FACTS or EVIDENCE to refute my arguments that I stand on or perhaps your research may compliment the 5 Salaat position, which Allah authorized in the Qur?aan and not 3.
You have made a claim that I was not opened minded and that I was bias, etc., etc. and drew conclusions before I done my research. Below is your statement
?You were already biased when you wrote this, as you weren't open minded, but just wanted to 'prove' something you were already convinced of, so you were not objective?
Well again Arnold, we have another tale or opinion from you. I challenge you, provide evidence in my research to back your statement up or opinion up above? I have been exposed to this issue quite sometime and I decided to challenge the notion of the ?3 Salaat Theory? and we all have that right, and I presented my evidence in this forum and many other forums and areas on the internet before I posted on the Progressive Muslim Forum. The evidence of my research exist and it is open for any body to dissect it and pick it apart and refute my arguments, if its possible. But again Arnold at the present all you can introduce is your assumptions/opinions/statements. My arguments stand on the 5 Salaat position. I have received many positive responses by Muslims around the world concerning my research.
You have said this
?As for the mathematical code inside the prayer, this can be refuted already, as there is a whole mechanic inside the Quran already, and how could have people before the discovery of the code have verified the true salaat? Before the code, there wasn't complete blind faith in the Quran as the concistency of the rhyme and the science in it gave enough reference to base the faith in the Quran on?
Arnold you didn?t read my entire research or maybe you must have over looked some aspects of my research. When I proved that there are 5 Salaat times in the Qur?aan, thus my arguments were not diminished to the Divine Mathematical Code of the Qur?aan. I proved that there are 5 Salaat instead of 3 using various forms of evidence, logic, reasoning, I also proved with clear evidence that the Egyptians observed 5 Salaat and this was before Abraham and Muhammad was born. This evidence from the Egyptians is well known and NO hadiyth were written during that time. Salaat was well intact and well established and Allah preserved it. When there was distortion of Salaat Allah went out of His way to address the distortions and correct them. If there was originally 3 Salaat and this became distorted over time then why didn?t Allah address this in the Qur?aan and restore it back to 3 Salaat like how Allah restored Wudu and the tone of voice (in the Qur?aan) when we do Salaat. In my research I have went into far greater detail in this area. I would advice you to concentrate in these two of my sections and you will clearly see that the proponents of the 3 Salaat Theory has no bases or logic in the Qur?aan. This section starts under the category ?Islaam Is A Prescribed Way Of Life? and for the evidence that the Egyptians (Nubians) of antiquity observed 5 Salaat re-examine the section under ?The Nubian Egyptian Empire And Islaam? Abraham in the Qur?aan was performing Salaat. Salaat was intact and well established. I have proven beyond doubt that there are 5 Salaat and not 3 and the mathematical code was sound additional arguments, which was again something that you cannot refute.
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EDIT OF MY EARLIER POST
Check these out http//www.usn2161.net/prayerproofs.html
and http//www.usn2161.net/prayermethod.htmlThe 5 prayers are given mathematically. This does not just include the units but also the words and so on. Although I thought that there are only 3 salaat mentioned in the Quran, I am beginning to think that there are 5. Another interesting fact is that although Jews pray 3x per day in on regular days, they pray 5x on Yom Kippur, which is very interesting.
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Salam alaikoum,
peace to all.
Dear progressive1993
your links to prove there are 5 salats doesn't look to me very scientific let's say. I mean these people are playing with numbers to prove something they decided. It has been proved if you change the order of rakaat you get the same results!!!! Further more they use salat names that are not in Al Quran e.g. asr, maghreb etc..
Question
Don't you think, things regarding SALAT which is an important practice in islam should be clear!
So keeping that in mind, Al Quran clearly mentioned 3 SALAT. I mean why will ALLAH mention 3 clearly and leave 2 a bit vague? Also, the timing is clear, and easy to follow.This is my personnal understanding, seeking the truth but ALLAH knows better.
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Peace, Herbman,
I know the article at quran-islam.org about the switching the number of rakat and still getting mutiples of 19 and so on. I need to check the infos further. I was for a while believing what you are believing right now about 3 salaat being at dawn, sunset and night (check my post at "my arguement for 3 salaat". They are giving good proofs though and RK also said its 5. Furthermore, the Muslims have been doing the 5 salaat ever since. (except some islamilis, etc.)
We need to look for more evidence and grasp the meaning of the verses on the quran a little bit better, such as 1778 - does it refer to noon or sunset? if its noon then there are 5, if not then there are 3.
But remember the mutawator sunna of it being 5. The rakat system (although proven that it can be changed and still have multiples of 19, etc.) is one factor which makes me think there are 5 salaat, since without a set number of rakats, there wouldnt be unity in mosques. (think about it). Maybe the rakats were always 2 (as stated in hadiths) and then changed. NOTE the first 2 or only 2 rakats of Fajr, Maghrib and Isha are recited aloud... maybe this could prove the 3 salaat theory. The maths proves the opposite, though. again, i invite others to discuss this topic more thoruoghly, since it is an important one.
anyways,
peace.Salam alaikoum,
peace to all.
Dear progressive1993
your links to prove there are 5 salats doesn't look to me very scientific let's say. I mean these people are playing with numbers to prove something they decided. It has been proved if you change the order of rakaat you get the same results!!!! Further more they use salat names that are not in Al Quran e.g. asr, maghreb etc..
Question
Don't you think, things regarding SALAT which is an important practice in islam should be clear!
So keeping that in mind, Al Quran clearly mentioned 3 SALAT. I mean why will ALLAH mention 3 clearly and leave 2 a bit vague? Also, the timing is clear, and easy to follow.This is my personnal understanding, seeking the truth but ALLAH knows better.
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Peace,
Salat does not involve bowing and prostration. Salat is the act of incense burning. Please read my article titled "Salat is none other than Incense Burning".
Peace,
K.Vivekanandan
And Zakat is freezing?!
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rotfl
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As Salaamu Alaykum To All Muslims
There has been an increasing divide among Muslims who follow Qur'aan ALONE on the amount of times we are suppose to perform Salaat. A small group or fraction of Muslims teach that Allah only authorized 3 Salaat times in the Qur'aan while the rest of the Muslims who follow Qur'aan ALONE and the entire Muslim world teach that Allah authorized 5 Salaat times or periods in the Qur'aan. We want all Muslims (no matter what persuasion you come from) to know that TAWHIYD has completed their extensive research on this heated subject and have laid to rest the FINAL ARGUMENT. We have dissected the "3 Salaat Theory" and intellectually DESTROYED it, beyond doubt. Visit the link below to examine yourself
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
Salaam
Slm, Al-Khidr,
At first when I read your article, I thought...dude...this is BS, but after a few more looks I was convinced that there are 5 salaat in the Quran.
Thanks, man.
Advice to the others look at the article with an open minds, otherwise you will not really understand it just like me at the first time, because i was too stuck and convinced with the 3 salaat theory.
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Peace to all,
Pray God to guide us, we all looking for truth.
the 5 prayers supporters, declare the following
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr), given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha), given in 2458Now one question is rising , does 3018 really talk about the Zuhr prayer?
3017
So (give) glory to Allah, when ye reach eventide and when ye rise in the morning;
3018
In 3017 verse start by FA SUBHANA, God commands to do smth in this case to glorify him
while in 3018 WA LAHU AL HAMD means to him is ALHAMD in the heavens and on earth; and in the late afternoon and when the day begins to decline.Let's see what the other verses says
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11114 start with AQIMO SALATA it is a command , 2458 refer to the prayer and then there is no ambiguity.
(2)Zuhr see comment above
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr), given in 2238In 238 verse start by HAFIDHU, it is a command "Preserve\Take care etc", salat AL WUSTA--> it is a command what ever salat AL WASTA is.
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib), given in 11114 same as (1)
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha), given in 2458 same as point 1 (1) refer to the prayer and then there is no ambiguityConclusion
to my humble understanding and seeking protection to God against Satan the bannished, I do understand that everytime God in the Quran command us to pray, the verses clearly start with a command while 3018 is not a command.
Please give me feedback, clarify, help, together we will find the right path.
Peace
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Salaam all, herbman
verse 3017
So (give) glory to Allah, when ye reach eventide and when ye rise in the morning;
I would interpret it as glory be to God....
But that's not the problem, as one can understand it the way you put it. It's the phrase of which is an expression meaning "all the time". It's still in use in the expression " " (morning and evening) and it means all the day; all the time.My argument for 2 salaats is verse 2458 where the fajr and 3ishaa salat are mentioned by name during a whole day of an average person. No other slaat is ever mentioned by name in the whole quraan.
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There is no exposing the 3 salaat "theory". Gods (sunna) does not change. (1777) And in judaism, and christianity, you will also find 3 prayers.
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Samia,
I think you make a good point in pointing out that 2458 only mentions two salaahs, if there were three, then surely it would have been given a mention in this verse.
It is becoming increasingly apparent to me that "wustaa" need not be exclusively interpreted as a preposition, and a temporal one at that.
My understanding of salah, in my studies, is far from resolved.
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Peace all, Samia
In a previous post I've put this
Salam to all,about Salat AL WUSTA what do you think about this verse 629
Yusuf Ali O ye who believe! when the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic) that is best for you if ye but knew!
This can only be during the day, not al fajr neither at sun down it has to be somewhere in the middle.
This is to reject the assertion of 2 prayers a day!Allah best knows
I know we are talking about the congregational prayer occuring during the day.
So for you the congregational prayer is an extra prayer?????
Peace
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So for you the congregational prayer is an extra prayer?????
Peace
Salaam herbman, all
Fajr and isha salats are to be performed in solitude without the person engaged in them being interrupted. This is the opposite of the congregational salaat, where it's done with others, during the day and it should interrupt business. I do not think it has to be done everyday, (and interrupt business everyday), but on the day of gathering. So, yes, it's an extra salaat (not daily, if this is what you mean).
