|~ Who was AISHA? ~|
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Peace be unto thee.
Have you ever wondered or doubted who Aisha really was? Was she real? Was she a good wife of Mohammad? Was she the mother of believers? Was she actually an enemy of Mohammad? Did she ever exist? Or was she just a mythical character?
Many Quran aloners believe that Abu Huraira was a complete joke because of his hadiths that he allegedly narrated and other sources of history of his conversation with Aisha. Anyway what about Aisha? The hadiths that are allegedly from Aisha are full of nonsense too (
Regarding her age, many QAs have accepted that Aisha was married to Mohammad between the age of 18-21 but that's not the case now. I am just having doubts who this lady Aisha was.
I hope you'd post your thoughts here. Your posts would be much appreciated if you give solid evidences and your theory to support your views.
Sorry if this topic has been discussed before. I hope Pazuzu would also post his input here. He must be knowledgeable about this (I think)!
Best regards,
Yuliana -
Oh and one more thing, if you vote, please state why you vote it.
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Salaam to all
Well for me it became clear that is fairytale.(even basing myself only in hadith) even if i was a sunni(idolater) i would feel uncornfortble to know that for them almost all hadith talking about women come from Muhamed and hadith about man intimacy come from Aisha... thats pure strange in a segragated and male-based arab-worship tradition. it looks like aisha was going out with other man...
other point is the fact that (im not sure of this one) theres hadith by this "dear" aisha, after the death of Muhamad(they say) she proibited women to go to mosques etc.. wich is an inovation even under sunnah, and that why today women keep in home and only go to friday prayer... whatever ...SAD SAD SAD... sunni women today seem to have a kind of love for being opressed...if youre not a rought and hard man..she might feel to free to do whatever she wants.. so sunni women submit to their husband.. and i can bet( i had my very own experience > ) that if they met a man whos /kind/ equal right/ respect "this sunni women" she will not get used to it because she already got the stigma from hadith and quran "traditional interpretation" of this aisha who was a model of self-opression.... in resume MAN MADE FALACY.. not women made falacy..
SAlaam to all /paz
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Hi Everyone,
I believe Aisha was real and was a wife of Muhammed (PBUH). I think we can take away from this that Muhammed (PBUH) actually practiced what he preached. Aisha was an orphan or close to it and he married her at a young age to look after her. Now did he have sex with her at a young age? I have no idea. We must also not use the current standard of adulthood that is widely accepted. Due to short life spans, in many cultures once a person had reached puberty they were married off. Now people have the luxury (?) of waiting until they are in their 30s or later to get married. However, when many people didn't make it to 40, having a child so late in life would lead to many orphans. Hence have children while you are young so you are around long enough to watch them grow up. While this in modern times sounds horrible, it was of extreme necessity in those times.
Now as for oppression of women... my wife and daughters would beat me if I tried that. I am all for women's equality!!!
Just my crazy thoughts,
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace -
Peace be unto you, Nomad ^_^
I have heard that according to Sunnism, women are the causes of fitna (slander) brickwall
I don't know if Mohammed son of Abdullah was the Muhammad in the Qur'an or not. I may have come into conclusion that the so-called 6 Hadith Collections of Sunnism were finished being compiled around 13th CE, not 9th-10th CE.
Many hadiths that are allegedly from Aisha are terrible, misogynist, disgusting etc such as hadith saying that Aisha washed semen stain on Mohammed son of Abdullah's cloth. brickwall
Salaam Jewish Dude,
The Mohammed ibn Abdullah and Aisha thingy can only be found in apocryphal sectarian writings.
Regards,
Yuliana -
It is a very interesting matter. As to what purported hadith from aixa said, many, as is the rule are nonsense, but there are some that are not nonsense. That is nothing to do with Aixa but rather with the whole hadith set up which in itself it seems to have been made into a gate whereby you get the pass for awful nonsense hiding under the skirts of wuthentic wisdom and inspiration that can be had from many hadith. I do not know what the solution for the mix up may be. I think that making new collections with sound ones and calling them collection saying or dowings attributed to the muhammadian tradition and the bullshit ones, wholly discard themas religious litterature. Many, I am sure, are jokes, plain jokes never intended to be anything else and they made their way into "seriousness" out of the stupidity of those who handled them.
As to real wives of Muhammed, I think it is a matter for historians, just the same as Ali, Fatima, etc. etc. I am sure, reading the Qur'an that the wives of the Prophet are ahl al bait beside other people maybe. But to exclude the wives as the chia apparently does, for me is squarely kicking the Qur'an.
I dislike the bile poured on on Aixa, either by sunnies, with bad hadith, or chia painting her as a bad person or nearly. As stated by the Qur'an, the wives of the Prophet are mothers of the believers. It does not say that they are mothers only of male believers, so it must be understood that they are mothers of believing men and women. So they deserve to be honoured in memory, as they deserved to be honoured in real life. When they could have taken advantage of the improvement of their economical and social condition, they didn't. They deserve respect. Personally I think htat the Qur'an, calling them our mothers is telling us that we are al diverse, that we all have our individuality as they did, and as such individualities we must believe and that there is not a character that is better or more holy or more saint or more feminine or masculine than other. Because we all know that mother there is only one, if several are attributed, it must be to be able to derive something from the variety.
Salaam
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Salaam Huruf,
My intention for writing this thread is to study either Aisha that is mentioned in traditional sources was one of the consorts of Ahmad / Muhammad / The Praised One in the Qur'an or character and/ or historiography of Aisha was made up by Judeo-Persians.
Recently I have been having doubt whether Muhammad in the hadiths and Sira had anything to do with Ahmad / Muhammad / The Praised One in the Qur'an or not.
I am still learning and researching about this. Pazuzu's threads, posts and e-books may be helpful.
Regards,
Yuliana -
Yes I know have read and studied in detail all Pazuzus threads and books and it is the kind of investigation that has to be done on each aspect of Quranic revelation from the historical point of view. So what I wrote was from my own personal feeling on readin the Qur'an.
There are mountains of questions, events (or non events), people and names to be studied from the historic point of view. I do not have that kind of knowledge to say one way or other. I sincerely pray that enough capable people do that research and study, and may be bring contrasted facts to the forum so that we may contribute reasonings, and may be, who knows, other facts that may be enlightning.
My feeling about Aixa is that all in all, she may have existed and may have been shortchanged precisely, how not, because of being female and because, by the look of it, she was not the submissive, handlable female. The shiite picturing of her to me smacks of the typical characterising of women as witches, so the shiite have the wonderful perfect woman-mother who was Fatima and the witch in the person of Aixa.
So, hoepfully, some sister or brother may have historical sources to bring light into this.
Salaam
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Something else. En Sura 24 the ayas after the zina are directed to the people who spread salnder about, it seems, a woman who was maligned and slandered. Since the Qur'an mentions it, there is no doubt that such event happenned and was common and noisy knowledge. It is the usual explanation that it was Aixa who was the object of it. Some hadith says it was she and matches the Sura an-nur. May be authentic or not. Masy be it was a woman of the believers not particularly notable, that is any woman. As to the meaning of the Qur'an it does not change anything.
Salaam
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It would atleast seem that the ottomans wrote a majority of the forged hadith. (1299). So one can look at earlier sources, and apply critical thinking, and see if better historical accuracy can be found in these sources.
Peace Be With You.
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I honestly believe that she was at least mid to late teens when she got married. It seems like there has been a lot of made up stories of her since, especially as part of the sunni-shia infighting.
Reports of her dragging injured men in early Muslim battles to nurse them and her own mother stating when she was born I would take above any so called hadith of her playing with dolls at the time of marriage.
Her actions both during Muhammed's life as being overly inquisitive (keeping in line with that of a mid to late teen) and well after it in which she engaged in a lot of politics before being kept under a middle age version of house arrest does not suggest the upbringing of a little girl being abused as part of a child marriage. Weak, feeble and dumb she was not.
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In regards to her age...I remember reading somewhere with mathematical proofs that she could not have been younger than 18, comparing the known age of her older sister, the date of her older sister's death, the years difference between them and comparing it to other known dates to confirm she couldn't have been less than 18
and I think that whole "society was different, people reached puberty at an earlier age etc." is a cheap cop out...
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Thbere is the very well researched article by T Shanavas. After that, whoever wants to insist that Aixa was a child then it must be somebody pursuing some islamophobic agenda or, the counterpart of that, some boysclubislam mysigynist and backwards islam agenda.
salaam
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Thbere is the very well researched article by T Shanavas. After that, whoever wants to insist that Aixa was a child then it must be somebody pursuing some islamophobic agenda or, the counterpart of that, some boysclubislam mysigynist and backwards islam agenda.
salaam
Indeed.
Like with the age of Aisha, and many other topics, it is interesting to see the connection between stand point and agenda.
E.g. those who have islamophobic agendas, will always insist on the truth of the negative and disgusting story or version. Islamophobes would always insist Aisha married at the age of 6 or 9 or whatever. They'd also insist Muhammad did all sorts of bad things and even was a thief. Oftentimes the back it up with the Quran and hadith. BUT when you present a positive and reasonable version, then they won't agree, because it doesn't serve their purpose of bad-mouthing Islam. I always find it hilarious that they use the Quran and hadith to insist on the truth of the bad versions, as if they believe in the Quran and hadith as truthful documents. For bad things, Quran and hadith are to them clear and solid evidence and proof... but for other things the books are not truthful at all.... brickwall