Help needed
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Salaam!
RK says gives the orders of revelation of different chapters eg. according to him
First chapter "alfatiha" has order of revelation 5
Second chapter "Albaqarah" has order of revelation 87 and so on.What is the source that RK established these "Orders of Revelation"?
Traditions
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Traditions
Salaam
First of all I appreciate both of you for the reply.So what I find from your posts is
1RK followed traditions while apprarently his teachings are against traditions.
2Though you have not said explicitly yet I conclude that Chapter first i.e "Alfatiha" is first in revelation ,Albaqarah ,second .......... Al-naas " the last in order. Am I correct to have this inferrence ? -
Salaam
First of all I appreciate both of you for the reply.So what I find from your posts is
1RK followed traditions while apprarently his teachings are against traditions.
2Though you have not said explicitly yet I conclude that Chapter first i.e "Alfatiha" is first in revelation ,Albaqarah ,second .......... Al-naas " the last in order. Am I correct to have this inferrence ?Yes
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Yes
Salaam
Thanks Samia005.003
YUSUFALI Forbidden to you (for food) are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL Forbidden unto you (for food) are carrion and blood and swineflesh, and that which hath been dedicated unto any other than Allah, and the strangled, and the dead through beating, and the dead through falling from a height, and that which hath been killed by (the goring of) horns, and the devoured of wild beasts, saving that which ye make lawful (by the death-stroke), and that which hath been immolated unto idols. And (forbidden is it) that ye swear by the divining arrows. This is an abomination. This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.If this verse is not the "last" one then all the verses after this in the Quran are out of "Deen" because Deen was completed with this verse.How will you explain it ?
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Peace Q_student,
1RK followed traditions while apprarently his teachings are against traditions.
Yes. He followed traditions while hypocritically claiming to be against them. He followed traditions not just in the order of revelation but also in rejecting 9128-129 and in all the rituals.
2Though you have not said explicitly yet I conclude that Chapter first i.e "Alfatiha" is first in revelation ,Albaqarah ,second .......... Al-naas " the last in order. Am I correct to have this inferrence ?
As you may have noticed based on the great reading itself, this is false. The "order of revelation" is completely irrelevant. The great reading is not some story book in chronological order.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaam
The easiest way to get rid of any question is to say "it is irrelevant'.
This shows at least this much that we are not aware of "exact order of revelation".Regards
The order of revelation is not important and no verse in the quran talks about the importance of the order of revelation. So this is argument that some sunnies have is not based on the facts in the quran. So yes, it is irrelevant.
It is like a finger pointing on the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory - Bruce
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The order of revelation is not important and no verse in the quran talks about the importance of the order of revelation. So this is argument that some sunnies have is not based on the facts in the quran. So yes, it is irrelevant.
It is like a finger pointing on the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory - Bruce
Salaam brother
So you agree that Quran was manipulated as far as "revelation order" is concerned so its order is at least is not "preserved".
Brother as far as this "irrelevance" theory is concerned it can expand a lot. We know certain verses are repeated in the Quran. One may say that only one verse is sufficient ,others are redundant and irrelevant.
For the Quran each word ,eahc alphabet ,and order are absolutely Relevant.
This theory of IRRELAVANCE" lead RK to pull out two verses from the Quran. -
Salaam brother
So you agree that Quran was manipulated as far as "revelation order" is concerned so its order is at least is not "preserved".I don't know if understand your question, but i will give an answear which i think is relevant for the question. I don't think the Quran is manipulated as far as revealtion order. The quran is preserved, and i don't believe in the false claim that 2 of the quranic verses are not part of the Quran. The only reason the revelation order (all the verses) are not chronological and different from every other book i read, i think is because it is from God. God made it this way. And even dough the Quran is not chronological in most of it verses, it still have a balance and harmony. The stories about the prophets etc are also linked to eachother throught balance and harmony.
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I don't know if understand your question, but i will give an answear which i think is relevant for the question. I don't think the Quran is manipulated as far as revealtion order. The quran is preserved, and i don't believe in the false claim that 2 of the quranic verses are not part of the Quran. The only reason the revelation order (all the verses) are not chronological and different from every other book i read, i think is because it is from God. God made it this way. And even dough the Quran is not chronological in most of it verses, it still have a balance and harmony. The stories about the prophets etc are also linked to eachother throught balance and harmony.
Salaam brother
This verse (53) shows that it is last verse as far as its text is concerned.
How can you say that the order was not manipulated.
How this last verse came in the fifth chapter ? -
A few points...
NB AQ = Al Quran
First of all, who says the order of content in AQ MUST be in chronological order?
I have often said it would be an interesting study to try and extract a chronological order based on AQ only, just to see what it brings to the table.Secondly, from my studies of AQ so far, what I have frequently noticed is that when I study a topic, it often results in having to cross-reference / study a significant part of AQ, leading to a much wider range of study. The way it is structured almost forces you to study more and more of it. I'm sure many students of AQ have noticed this.
Lastly, anyone who thinks there is no structure to AQ, I strongly recommend reading 'Coherence in Quran' by Mustansir Mir. It is a tough read, due to its academic written style, but it is convincing
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10431.0
