Stoning Punishment in the Bible

almarh0m

Peace Q_s

Don't worry Bro , some of those on your list have been "islamised" by the Muhammadans as Shariah Law i.e. Stone the adulterors and Fornicators to death . The Muhammadans simply copied from the Bible into their own hadiths such as Deuteronomy 2222-24 , Leviticus 2010 etc , these people just love killing don't they ? Compare the punishment for the same offence in the Qur'an 242 and 425 ............
100 stripes of the Whips or 50 stripes ( depending on who committed the adultery ? ) .

Cheers

Bigmo

Peace Q_s

Don't worry Bro , some of those on your list have been "islamised" by the Muhammadans as Shariah Law i.e. Stone the adulterors and Fornicators to death . The Muhammadans simply copied from the Bible into their own hadiths such as Deuteronomy 2222-24 , Leviticus 2010 etc , these people just love killing don't they ? Compare the punishment for the same offence in the Qur'an 242 and 425 ............
100 stripes of the Whips or 50 stripes ( depending on who committed the adultery ? ) .

Cheers

Roman Punishment - Punishments given to Roman Slaves
In Ancient Rome the slaves had no rights at all. The were thought of, treated like, merchandise. However, slaves did cost money to buy so many of the punishments did not inflict lasting damage. The lash was the most common punishment. When slaves were beaten, they were suspended with a weight tied to their feet, that they might not move them. Another punishment was to be branded in the forehead. An alternative punishment included the slave being forced to carry a piece of wood round their necks wherever they went. This was called furca; and whichever slave had been subjected to the punishment was ever afterwards called furcifer. Slaves were also, by way of punishment, often confined in a work-house, or house of correction, where they were obliged to turn a mill for grinding corn. When punished for any capital offence, they were commonly crucified; but this was eventually prohibited under the rule of the Emperor Constantine.

Roman Punishment - Forgery
Forgery was not punished with death, unless the culprit was a slave; but freemen guilty of that crime were subject to banishment, which deprived them of their property and privileges; and false testimony, coining, and those offences which we term misdemeanours, exposed them to an interdiction from fire and water, or in fact an excommunication from society, which necessarily drove them into banishment.

Roman Punishment - Different Types of Punishment for Romans
The different types of punishments inflicted among the Romans, were fines, (damnum,) bonds, (vincula,) stripes, (verbera,) retaliation, (talio,) infamy, (ignominia,) banishment, (exilium,) slavery, (servitus,) and death. A Roman citizen could not be sentenced to death unless he was found guilty of treason. A Roman citizen had the right to be tried in Romeif accused of treason. If sentenced to death, no Roman citizen could be sentenced to be crucified.

Roman Punishment by Death
The Roman methods of inflicting death were various, in the time of Nero, the punishment for treason was, to be stripped stark naked, and with the head held up by a fork to be whipped to death. The most common punishment were as follows

Beheading (percussio securi)

Strangling in prison (strangulatio)

Throwing a criminal from that part of the prison called Robur (precipitatio de robore)

Throwing a criminal from the Tarpeian rock (dejectio e rupe Tarpeia)

Crucifixion (in crucem actio)

Burying a person alive

Throwing a criminal into the river (projectio in profluentem).

Roman Punishment for Patricide
The last-mentioned punishment (throwing a criminal into the river (projectio in profluentem) was inflicted for patricide or killing your father. As soon as any one was convicted of patricide he was immediately blindfolded as unworthy of the light, and in the next place the person were taken to the field of Mars outside Rome, stripped of everything then whipped with rods. He was then sewed up in a sack, and thrown into the sea. Later in time, to add to the punishment for patricide, a serpent was put in the sack; and still later, an ape, a dog and a cock. The sack which held the criminal was called Culeus, on which account the punishment itself is often signified by the same name.

Roman Punishment
The content of this Roman Punishment category on life in Ancient Rome provides free educational details, facts and information for reference and research for schools, colleges and homework. Refer to the Colosseum Sitemap for a comprehensive search on interesting different categories containing the history, facts and information about Ancient Rome.

Assyrian Death Penalty This sketch represents the usual death penalty given by the Assyrians which was hoisting on poles. The victims were tied with their stomachs or throats on the point of a stake so that their own weight thrust them downwards.
http//www.bible-history.com/past/assyrian_death_penalty.html

Assyrian Fetters Pairs of bronze fetters were used to fasten prisoners. They were made of various shapes and materials. The ones that were put on Zedekiah and Samson were made of brass or copper. The sketch on top is from a pair of Fetters found in Nineveh, currently in the British Museum. They weigh 8 lbs. 11 oz. and are 16 ? inches long. The part which enclosed the ankles is thinner so that they could be hammered small after the feet were placed in them. The Egyptians enclosed the hands of their prisoners in an elongated shackle of wood, made of two opposite segments nailed together at each end.
http//www.bible-history.com/past/assyrian_fetters.html

Assyrian Hooking the Lips This sketch is an archaeological discovery from the ruins of Ancient Assyria. It reveals an Assyrian king blinding a captive king while holding his head still with a hook in his lips. The other kings are waiting for the same fate. The Bible reveals accounts of prisoners being blinded and this metaphor is used of God leading rebellious people and nations.
http//www.bible-history.com/sketches/ancient/assyrian-king-lips-eyes.html

Assyrians Blinding Their Prisoners This sketch represents part of a scene from a marble slab discovered at Khorsabad. The Assyrian king is using a spear to blind one of his many prisoners. In his left hand he holds a cord with a hook attached at the opposite end which are inserted into the prisoners lips. The Assyrians would thrust the point of a dagger or spear into the eye. Their are many representations that have been discovered revealing that the Babylonians, Assyrians and Persians made use of the same cruel punishment.
http//www.bible-history.com/past/blinding_prisoners.html

Counting Dead Men's Hands This sketch represents how the Egyptians would count the severed hands of enemy corpses after a battle. They would usually cut off the hands or the genitals of the dead and make a heap before their king. In one case 12,535 of these "battle trophies" were counted and assembled into a mound after a victory of Ramsees III over the Libyans.
http//www.bible-history.com/past/egyptians_counting_hands.html

Israelites Forced to Labor This sketch is taken from a marble relief found in the palace of Sennacherib. It illustrates how the Israelite prisoners were assembled into gangs and forced to perform heavy labor. They are clothed in short skirted garments and are carrying heavy loads of rocks.
http//www.bible-history.com/past/israelite_forced_labor.html

Roman Scourging The Romans would, according to custom, scourge a condemned criminal before he was put to death. The Roman scourge, also called the "flagrum" or "flagellum" was a short whip made of two or three leather (ox-hide) thongs or ropes connected to a handle as in the sketch above. The leather thongs were knotted with a number of small pieces of metal, usually zinc and iron, attached at various intervals. Scourging would quickly remove the skin.
http//www.bible-history.com/past/flagrum.html

Looks like these were acceptable forms of punishment in the ancient times. I do not see the Sunnis or Shias or Israelites as being any more bloody than anyone else was. Anyways with WW1, WW2 and all these bombs and killing of civilians, who are we to judge others. But what does God has to do with that? These are societies run by people for people. They are not angels or extraterrestrial creatures. When we see a lion gobble up a baby deer, we don't say this is God? When we see starvation and oppression, we don't say this is God. Who are we to judge anyways?

almarh0m

Peace Bigmo

The difference between the people and the punishments you mentioned in your above post is , they no longer enforce these cruel and barbaric acts . Whereas , the The Sunni and Muhammadans continue with their cutting of limbs , beheadings and stonings . Do you still think that The Sunni and Muhammadans are no more cruel and barbaric than the people you mentioned ? This is the 21st Century , we are not living in the stone age anymore .

Peace

almarh0m

Rami

Peace Bigmo

The difference between the people and the punishments you mentioned in your above post is , they no longer enforce these cruel and barbaric acts . Whereas , the The Sunni and Muhammadans continue with their cutting of limbs , beheadings and stonings . Do you still think that The Sunni and Muhammadans are no more cruel and barbaric than the people you mentioned ? This is the 21st Century , we are not living in the stone age anymore .

Peace

almarh0m

Peace,

What do you mean 21st century? The modern world punishes criminals using the method of confinement. This method was used during Joseph's time!! But still the Torah and the Quran which came very much later never used this method for punishing criminals. Why?

Peace,

Rami

almarh0m

Peace Rami

I take it that you prefer cutting off limbs , beheading , and stoning people to death instead of imprisonment/confinement in Jails ?

Peace

Rami

Peace Rami

I take it that you prefer cutting off limbs , beheading , and stoning people to death instead of imprisonment/confinement in Jails ?

Peace

I take it that you worship the king of Egypt?

almarh0m

Peace Rami

I worship No Thing ! Did I say anything about the King of Egypt ? I thought we were talking about "Stoning Punishment in The Bible" ? Obviously , I was wrong ;D peace

almarh0m

Rami

Peace Rami

I worship No Thing ! Did I say anything about the King of Egypt ? I thought we were talking about "Stoning Punishment in The Bible" ? Obviously , I was wrong ;D peace

almarh0m

Peace,

OK. Actually stoning is simply capital punishment so it can be translated today as capital punishment by firearms ie. bullet=stone. In Islam, murderers and corruptors should be put to death.

What about lashing and cutting the thieves hand and beating women?? They are plainly ordered in the Quran. Are they backward too? According to the modern world, it is madness to follow them.

Peace,

Rami

Rami

Peace,

The reason why corporeal punishment is preferred over prison is that much more cheaper and its a real penalty. Prison is actually a vacation. Yes, it causes some trauma but it wastes alot of money for no reason. The modern world can do this because of the usurious banking systems. While the poor is working 24 hours a day and starving to death, the governments are spending lots of money for confining its prisoners. In a non-usurious economy, corporeal punishemnt is the ideal way. This money should go to the poor rather than giving a free time for the wicked.

Pharaoh had this ability because he stole the fruit of labor of his servants by TAX so he was able to maintain a prison system. One of the reason why God was mad at Pharaoh that he enslaved the Israelites economically by TAXING them and distributing it to the undeedy preferred class.

It also explains why Solomon was actually a poor King but was given powers and gifts from God. God won't allow His servant to store gold and silver while His other servants starve.

Yeah, don't tell anyone. I am deep.

Peace,

Rami

almarh0m

Peace Rami

Lashings , cutting off hands and beating up women in the Qur'an , if we take those verses literally , I will be one of the first to say that Yes , they are backward and cruel . One of the reasons I am in this forum is , to better my understanding of the Qur'an so that I can be a better human being . If literal understanding or just knowledge that is required , then , even children can learn and translate the Qur'an literally . I believe we need more than just literal knowledge of the Qur'an , sure we need the knowlege but we also need the wisdom to thoroughly understand and appreciate what is in the Great Message .

almarh0m

Bigmo

Peace Rami

Lashings , cutting off hands and beating up women in the Qur'an , if we take those verses literally , I will be one of the first to say that Yes , they are backward and cruel . One of the reasons I am in this forum is , to better my understanding of the Qur'an so that I can be a better human being . If literal understanding or just knowledge that is required , then , even children can learn and translate the Qur'an literally . I believe we need more than just literal knowledge of the Qur'an , sure we need the knowlege but we also need the wisdom to thoroughly understand and appreciate what is in the Great Message .

almarh0m

Just because the Koran sanctions them on the people of Medina it does not mean they are Divine law. I am not sure if there is amputation in the Koran anyways. There is no capital punishment enforced in the Koran that I am aware of. But these are besides the point. The community of Medina are humans like anyobody else and public policy is not what the Koran came for. At least thats how I see the Koran. Muhammad's biography was somewhat different than other prophets and there was a community under his authority and the Koran brought verses down to guide them. But its not the main aim of the Koran and even if Muhammad was never in a position of political power, this would not have changed the emphasis of the Koran. Muhmammad's job in the Koran is clearly mentioned and its a job of a preacher. I do not believe we must only consider Muhammad's biography and ignore the other prophets. Each prophet had his circumstances and I do not believe we are to confine God within the limits of a prophet's life experience.

But we can not pass judgement on other societies that lived before us. The people of Medina lived 1,4000 years ago. They have their circumstances and cultural norms and we have ours. The Koran never spoke in a language beyond the people of its time and yet it can be understood by us also. The OT also speaks in a language of the people of its time and yet I can still understand it. What I like to look at is what are the theological implication of the Koran and OT. I don't look for it for theocratic guidelines as both these scriptures are not designed as such. The OT, unlike the Koran, is not a theological Book but it has obvious theological themes. The Koran is dominated by theological themes. Even when it dwelled occassionally in public policy, its main emphasis was always theological. And in that the Koran is unique. A look at the stories of the prophets in the Koran clearly shows the major theological themes in it. The Koran is God-centric. And its main emphasis is to influence and guide the reader into these theological themes. The OT is more concerned with stating events and rarely has theological biases. It is not the intention of the scribes of the OT to influence your theological understanding.

Verily in Joseph and his brethren are signs (or symbols) for seekers (after Truth).

This is clearly an introduction where the theological emphasis is clearly laid out. Its intention is obvious, so we know eher the Koran is going. This is not the OT, its made for the Israelite community many of them these stories are legends and maybe even myths.

When Joseph attained His full manhood, We gave him power and knowledge thus do We reward those who do right.
But she in whose house he was, sought to seduce him from his (true) self she fastened the doors, and said "Now come, thou (dear one)!" He said "(Allah) forbid! truly (thy husband) is my lord! he made my sojourn agreeable! truly to no good come those who do wrong!"
He said "O my Lord! the prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me Unless Thou turn away their snare from me, I should (in my youthful folly) feel inclined towards them and join the ranks of the ignorant."
He said "Before any food comes (in due course) to feed either of you, I will surely reveal to you the truth and meaning of this ere it befall you that is part of the (duty) which my Lord hath taught me. I have (I assure you) abandoned the ways of a people that believe not in Allah and that (even) deny the Hereafter.
"And I follow the ways of my fathers,- Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; and never could we attribute any partners whatever to Allah. that (comes) of the grace of Allah to us and to mankind yet most men are not grateful
He said "Shall I trust you with him with any result other than when I trusted you with his brother aforetime? But Allah is the best to take care (of him), and He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy!"
Further he said "O my sons! enter not all by one gate enter ye by different gates. Not that I can profit you aught against Allah (with my advice) None can command except Allah. On Him do I put my trust and let all that trust put their trust on Him."
And when they entered in the manner their father had enjoined, it did not profit them in the least against (the plan of) Allah. It was but a necessity of Jacob's soul, which he discharged. For he was, by our instruction, full of knowledge (and experience) but most men know not.

So we can clearly see the Koran is made for believers and is made to guide you theologically, it relates the stories with these theological emphasis as a guidance for the believers. People who are not believers will have little use for these theological themes.

And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom
"O my Lord! Thou hast indeed bestowed on me some power, and taught me something of the interpretation of dreams and events,- O Thou Creator of the heavens and the earth! Thou art my Protector in this world and in the Hereafter. Take Thou my soul (at death) as one submitting to Thy will (as a Muslim), and unite me with the righteous."

This is the lesson.

Q_student

Salaam All
Actually my Question about it is ?
Is this punishment of stoning in the real Bible or some Fabricated one? In other words is this stoning Punishment DIVINE or Man made?

unknownuser

Peace,

Actually my Question about it is ?
Is this punishment of stoning in the real Bible or some Fabricated one? In other words is this stoning Punishment DIVINE or Man made?

Qur'an contains in it the prior scriptures else no need to repeat the same stories; therefore, no stoning in Quran and likewise no stoning in prior scriptures.

Q_student

Peace,

Qur'an contains in it the prior scriptures else no need to repeat the same stories; therefore, no stoning in Quran and likewise no stoning in prior scriptures.

Salaam
Thanks for reply. What do you want to say?
Do you want to say Bible is not divine scripture or Bible is CORRUPTED ?

Qur'an contains in it the prior scriptures else no need to repeat the same stories

Do you want to say that Quran contains whole Bible in it ?
Regards

unknownuser

Peace,

Thanks for reply. What do you want to say?
Do you want to say Bible is not divine scripture or Bible is CORRUPTED ?

What bible, there are 100's of books according to someone popping up from the deserts...

http//www.earlychristianwritings.com/

As far hadith on this subject, not sure if true, although makes sense and something which my prophet (God bless him) might say ...

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 812
Narrated Anas bin Malik
While I was with the Prophet a man came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed a legally punishable sin; please inflict the legal punishment on me'.' The Prophet did not ask him what he had done. Then the time for the prayer became due and the man offered prayer along with the Prophet , and when the Prophet had finished his prayer, the man again got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed a legally punishable sin; please inflict the punishment on me according to Allah's Laws." The Prophet said, "Haven't you prayed with us?' He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Allah has forgiven your sin." or said, "....your legally punishable sin."

Q_student

Peace,

What bible, there are 100's of books according to someone popping up from the deserts...

http//www.earlychristianwritings.com/

As far hadith on this subject, not sure if true, although makes sense and something which my prophet (God bless him) might say ...

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 812
Narrated Anas bin Malik
While I was with the Prophet a man came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed a legally punishable sin; please inflict the legal punishment on me'.' The Prophet did not ask him what he had done. Then the time for the prayer became due and the man offered prayer along with the Prophet , and when the Prophet had finished his prayer, the man again got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed a legally punishable sin; please inflict the punishment on me according to Allah's Laws." The Prophet said, "Haven't you prayed with us?' He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Allah has forgiven your sin." or said, "....your legally punishable sin."

Dear Brother
My concern is only upto Bible.
Do you want to say that the Bible is corrupted .This Punishment is not present in original bible the Bible ? Did I correctly get your point of view ?
Any evidence for it ?
Secondly ,when Quran endorsed the Old Scriptures (Musaddiqan) ,which Bible was present Original or Corrupted one ? Should I assume the Quran endorsed the Corrupted Bible ?

Regards

Jafar

Dear Brother
My concern is only upto Bible.
Do you want to say that the Bible is corrupted .This Punishment is not present in original bible the Bible ? Did I correctly get your point of view ?
Any evidence for it ?
Secondly ,when Quran endorsed the Old Scriptures (Musaddiqan) ,which Bible was present Original or Corrupted one ? Should I assume the Quran endorsed the Corrupted Bible ?

Regards

Stoning is nothing compared to "massacre" command found in Deuteronomy..

"When Yahweh your God brings you into the land that you are about to enter and occupy, and he clears away many nations before you ? the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites...and when Yahweh your God gives them over to you...you must utterly destroy them voodoo...Show them no mercy... >For you are a people holy to Yahweh your God; Yahweh your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession
(Deuteronomy 7.1-11).

Salam / Peace

unknownuser

Peace Q_student,

My concern is only upto Bible.
Do you want to say that the Bible is corrupted .This Punishment is not present in original bible the Bible ? Did I correctly get your point of view ?
Any evidence for it ?
Secondly ,when Quran endorsed the Old Scriptures (Musaddiqan) ,which Bible was present Original or Corrupted one ? Should I assume the Quran endorsed the Corrupted Bible ?

Regards

Read Qur'an in context, Qur'an only endorses Qur'an...

Quran 217-8
And We did not send before you except men/humans, We inspire to them, so question the reminder's people if you were not knowing. And We did not create them a body, they do not eat the food, and they were not immortal.

1643-44 And We did not send from before you except men/humans, We inspire to them, so question the reminder's people, if you (kuntum/plural) were not knowing. With the evidences and The Books, and We descended to you the reminder to show to the people what was descended to them, and perhaps they think.

Asks rhetorical question for reader to ponder on the answer were they not human?

Luke 24
he said to them, 'Have ye anything here to eat?' 42 and they gave to him part of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb, 43 and having taken, he did eat before them.

Contradicts Qur'an...

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 2223-24

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 2118-21

John 19
17 and bearing his cross, he went forth to the place called Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew Golgotha; 18 where they crucified him, and with him two others, on this side, and on that side, and Jesus in the midst.

Quran came to confirm the truth 4157...They never killed him and never crucified him

Kindest regards

Bigmo

Peace,

Qur'an contains in it the prior scriptures else no need to repeat the same stories; therefore, no stoning in Quran and likewise no stoning in prior scriptures.

They said, "O Shu`aib, we do not comprehend many of the things you are telling us, and we see that you are powerless among us. If it were not for your tribe, we would have stoned you. You have no value for us."

"If they discover you, they will stone you, or force you to revert to their religion, then you can never succeed."

He said, "Have you forsaken my gods, O Abraham? Unless you stop, I will stone you. Leave me alone."

They said, "Unless you refrain, O Noah, you will be stoned."

They said, "We consider you bad omens. Unless you refrain, we will surely stone you, or afflict you with painful retribution."

And surely I take refuge with my Lord and your Lord that you should stone me to death''

Seems like it was the norm back then. Don't you think? There are many references in the Koran to stoning and I would not be surprised if societies of early Arabia were the same.

unknownuser

Seems like it was the norm back then. Don't you think? There are many references in the Koran to stoning and I would not be surprised if societies of early Arabia were the same.

Back then it was easy to pick up a rock and bash someone's head in, and look who was being threatened.

There is no stoning punishment in Qur'an the final authority -- period.