Is Quran Complete?
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Salaam,
Sorry, I do not see how your reply using 612-3 is relevant?
Please elaborate as to why you replied to my statement using 612-3. I can guess again, but as you take this too seriously, I shall not Looking at the tone of 4912, I doubt it refers to my tedious guess as to what your next question would be. Suspicion is a deeper word I feel, and hence the serious tone in the verse about backstabbing.
I do not understand your second question "What do you mean by any other physical salaat ? Quranic Salaat ?"
You said in a previous post that there is diversity of opinion regarding salat, and go on to list 3 points where the diversity lies.
That is what I mean.My apologies regarding the thread, I misread and thought you started it
Regards
Salaam Brother
If you are a Sunni then naturally 61-2,3 do apply. Then I am extremely sorry.
If you are a Quran aloner (which I thought it to be) then it is really something amazing that
Preaching = Quran alone
Practicing = Sunni salaat
Again I apologise for misunderstanding if you are a "Sunni".Also because any other physical salat would feel weird to me and distract me from the main purpose
Above is your sentence which talks about "any other salat". I was asking you what do you mean by this "any other salaat".
Regards -
Salaam Brother,
I see what you mean. I do not see any contradiction. I do not consider it a 'sunni' salat despite my earlier reference to it as a sunni salat. I used that term to give you an idea of my physical salat. Even the sunnis cannot agree on one salat. So what is considered a sunni salat and what is not? By how much do you have to differ for it not to become a sunni salat? I prefer the term traditional salat. All sunnis and shiites agree on some basics, like the sequence and numbers. Their ridiculous arguments about where to put your hands and what not to move and what not to scratch show their ignorance into not grasping what the main purpose is. Now I follow this traditional salat that was practiced way before some people decided to turn them into 'prophet sayings' and record them, forming the sunnah we talk about.
What I mean by any other salat is anything that differs from the basic traditional salat we see practiced by billions today. A one raka'a salat with 5 rukoo3 and 5 sujood for example. If someone is happy with this then fair enough. I do not see how I can prove that his/her salat is wrong and nor is it up to me to care whether it is wrong or not. As long as the main purpose (the remembrance of God is achieved) then who can disprove it? Had I not practiced this traditional salat, I would be very comfortable performing any salat. I do actually try and differ it a bit and make each salat unique. I do this because I do not like it becoming a ritual, where the SAME thing is done everytime. Regardless of how much one is committed and clear minded, I feel that once anything becomes a ritual, it is extremely hard not to feel daunted and depressed when performing. And therefore the main purpose is forgotten. I say this because Salat is a daily thing, unlike ramadhan which is yearly, and thus people actually look forward to it coming.
Unfortunately salat is a very important topic. It is usually the first question asked by traditionalists when trying to comprehend taking quran as an only source of Deen. I feel this stems from the fabricated pillars of Islam, placing salat at number 2. Thus the huge concern about whether one is performing salat 'correctly'. It has become OK to lie, backstab, feel indifferent to others, treat neighbors improperly, as long as salat is performed. Unfortunately, we are jumping to Iyman, before understanding what Islam is. How can we even consider performing salat, which has been written upon the mo2mins, if we do not fully understand how a muslim should act and live according to the straight path.
As you stated in a previous post, there is a physical and mental salat. I believe it is more important to train myself to maintain the mental salat, than try and perfect a physical salat which only takes 5 minutes max times the number of times a day it should be performed.
22 Surah Number 70, Ayah Number 22
except those that pray23 Surah Number 70, Ayah Number 23
who are constant in prayer;24 Surah Number 70, Ayah Number 24
who, from their wealth is a known right25 Surah Number 70, Ayah Number 25
for the impoverished non-requester and the requester,26 Surah Number 70, Ayah Number 26
who confirm the Day of ReckoningRegards
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Is this Abu_Yusaf by any chance ? Using the name Q_Student?
If not, then my bad, but you sound a lot like someone I used to talk to on paltalk. His main concern was finding out how people pray, and using this to prove the need for sunnah by showing that this prayer does not come from quran. A nice attempt but it doesn't fool me.
Anyway, enough talk about salat. The thread is about the quran being complete!....
Regards
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Salaam brother
It was not my concern about salaat.Rather it was starter of this thread who asked about it.His exact words areIs Qur'an complete? If yes, then could anyone please show me where in the Qur'an 5-daily salat are mentioned also how to offer these salat prayers?
Again I will remind you ;
4912
(4912) O you who have believed, avoid much suspicion, for some suspicions are sins. *24 Do not spy, *25 nor should any one backbite the other *26 . Is there any among you who would like to eat the flesh of his dead brother' *27 Nay, you yourselves abhor it. Fear Allah, for Allah is Acceptor of repentance and All-Merciful.
Regards -
salam,
Is Qur'an complete? If yes, then could anyone please show me where in the Qur'an 5-daily salat are mentioned also how to offer these salat prayers?
pbuh
There are lots of verses about salat. It doesn?t say pray 5 daily salat and it does not say the exact explicit actions. That doesn?t mean the Quran is incomplete. What is necessary is explained that shows it completeness. Did you ever think that because maybe in some people?s views it is ?vague? that God is giving a choice? Besides considering the sunni, shia prayer I am yet to find a hadith that explains the actions of prayer step by step..
Ok so maybe I should show you some verses
2238 (Asad) BE EVER mindful of prayers, and of praying in the most excellent way; and stand before God in devout obedience.
I think this verse indicates we should stand to pray
1778 (Asad) BE CONSTANT in prayer from the time when the sun has passed its zenith till the darkness of night, and recitation at dawn for, behold, the recitation at dawn is indeed witnessed .
To me this verse indicates timing of prayer
443 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not attempt to pray while you are in a state of drunkenness, until you know what you are saying; nor yet in a state requiring total ablution, until you have bathed - except if you are travelling . But if you are ill, or are travelling, or have just satisfied a want of nature, or have cohabited with a woman, and can find no water - then take resort to pure dust, passing lightly over your face and your hands. Behold, God is indeed an absolver of sins, much-forgiving.
Recite in a state of understanding and consciousness.
56 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! When you are about to pray, wash your face, and your hands and arms up to the elbows, and pass your hands lightly over your head, and your feet up to the ankles. And if you are in a state. requiring total ablution, purify yourselves. But if you are ill, or are travelling, or have just satisfied a want of nature, or have cohabited with a woman, and can find no water-then take resort to pure dust, passing therewith lightly over your face and your hands. God does not want to impose any hardship on you, but wants to make you pure, and to bestow upon you the full measure of His blessings, so that you might have cause to be grateful.
This verse explains the concept of wudu
2014 (Asad) "Verily, I - I alone - am God; there is no deity save Me. Hence, worship Me alone, and be constant in prayer, so as to remember Me
Prayer is for remembrance of God.
17110 (Asad) Say "Invoke God, or invoke the Most Gracious by whichever name you invoke Him, His are all the attributes of perfection. And be not too loud in thy prayer nor speak it in too low a voice, but follow a way in-between;
how to keep your voice in prayer even what to say "invoke God or invoke the most gracious"
243 (Asad) and be constant in prayer, and spend in charity, and bow down in prayer with all who thus bow down
Prayer indicates bowing
2125 (Asad) AND LO! We made the Temple a goal to which people might repair again and again, and a sanctuary take then, the place whereon Abraham once stood as your place of prayer." And thus did We command Abraham and Ishmael "Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it, and those who will abide near it in meditation, and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves ."
Sanctuaries are places for people to bow down and prostrate?
The verses seem clear, others may take a deeper interpretation in the meaning and attribute metaphoric meanings but in terms of prayer I believe it is physical..
The purpose is to remember God...
Hope that helps
Salam
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Salaam brother
It was not my concern about salaat.Rather it was starter of this thread who asked about it.His exact words areSalaam,
I remind you....
Salaam Ramzi
These are true.
Would you please practically and tell me and the poster how do you offer your physical salaat as per Quran ?
ThanksSalaam Ramzi ;
What do you mean by any other physical salaat ? Quranic Salaat ?
RegardsRegards
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A few points...
physical / mental wording is absurd
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597865.msg193643#msg193643There is tons of info on salat in Al Quran (AQ)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htmVast majority (99%?) of people who ask this question have not actually gone through AQ to see what it says.
It has been proven traditional Ahadith do not have a coherent method, only by picking and choosing is this possible
http//www.astudyofquran.org/web/index.php?id=60,0,0,1,0,0 -
Salam,
There could be some parts missing and that what we really have now is just a portion, who knows?
"The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (6115)
The study links of the study guides which Wakas posted are quite good. The Quran has all the details which we need. It is complete.
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"The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (6115)
The study links of the study guides which Wakas posted are quite good. The Quran has all the details which we need. It is complete.
Dear Brother
The Quran has all the details which we need
"Which we need " is a highly non specific phrase. Need of every one is different. It depends upon
1Educational background
2Arabic knowledged and all linguistic branches (the way the words are used)
3Memory and intellectSo for everyone nature of details may be different. For you it may be sufficient ,but for me I may need more elaboration to make it clear.Is this not so?
Regards -
Dear Brother
"Which we need " is a highly non specific phrase. Need of every one is different. It depends upon
1Educational background
2Arabic knowledged and all linguistic branches (the way the words are used)
3Memory and intellectSo for everyone nature of details may be different. For you it may be sufficient ,but for me I may need more elaboration to make it clear.Is this not so?
RegardsI mean for religious guidance/laws. Of course the Quran does not say that the speed limit for highway abc is 180 km/h.
I strongly recommend http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=as_7cddmBsk&feature=related
And BTW Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt. (6114)
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So for everyone nature of details may be different. For you it may be sufficient ,but for me I may need more elaboration to make it clear.Is this not so?
RegardsAs long as this elaboration does not add any laws, change any laws, contradict the quran, nor change the view/message/image of the Deen as presented by the quran. Then that is fine.
The statement still stands>> As far as our Deen is concerned, the quran is a complete and fully detailed.
I love it when the verses that point this out are mentioned but then people go on to say " That is fine, but......"
BUT, what? Do we not have faith in God's words? No BUTs, 6115
Regards
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Salamun alaykum
" This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than God On the contrary , it is a confirmation of what went before it and a Fuller Explanation of the Book , wherein there is no doubt from the Lord of the worlds " Qur'an 1037 .
Everyone has the right to interpret the Qur'an according to their own understanding of it , a mere reading of its Arabic text , reading translations of it and hoping to grasp the message in full is not sufficient . If we need further elaboration to understand its real meanings , then we should question ourselves , why is it so difficult to understand after the Author of the Qur'an has repeatedly told us that The Great Reading is easy to learn for those who seeks understanding ? ( 5417 , 5422 , 5432 , and 5440 ) .
To understand the Qur'an beyond the textual and contextual meanings and arrive at the Truth , first we'd need to examine our intention to study it , our sincerity of studying it and what is our motivation of studying the great reading . If it it just to show others 'how clever we are' then , we'd be successful only in parrotting the verses of the reading and its superficial translations .
" For we had certainly sent unto them a book based on knowledge which we have explained in detail , a guide and a mercy to all believers " 752 . From this verse it is clear again that god has explained this Qur'an in details for those believers , if we are still lacking in understanding , that perhaps we should increase our effort in studying it and also pray to God to guide us towards true understanding of His message so that we may live our lives according to it .
" A-L-R , a Book with verses basic or fundamental , further explained in detail from One Who is Wise and well acquainted with all things " , 111 . Is this not sufficient to convince us the god's Qur'an is complete and fully detailed ? Your understanding of certain verses of the Qur'an and others understanding of them do not necesarily have to be uniform , as some people are more receptive of and perceptive in grasping the message , while I agree that we should have a standard literal translation , our individual understanding and interpretation does not have to be the same ,i.e. you may be endowed with wisdom more than others or the reverse .
" There is in their stories , instructions for men endowed with understanding . It is not a Tale invented , but a confirmation of what went before it , a detailed exposition of all things , and a guide and a mercy to any believers " 12111 . Here again a verse telling us that the Qur'an is fully detailed and explained , but why do we still miss its intent , clear message and more and more elaboration which in the end may even confuse things instead of clarifying them ? Perhaps when we look at Lane's Lexicon and Root list meanings we should try to see what words among the listed meanings that fit the meanings but are not in the list , this is one of the way to get to the contextual and real meaning or the truth ( at least for me ) .
After reading all the above verses I am contented that The Qur'an is complete and fully detailed , any defect in my understanding is due either to my own lazyness or my lack of intellectual capacity and nothing else . After all , how many times must The God tell us that The Qur'an is easy , complete and fully detailed ? Here are some more Verses for further readings 638 , 413 , 6114 . Our Lord , increase our knowledge and grant us wisdom from yourself .
Peace
almarh0m
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"Say "If the sea were an inkwell for the words of my Lord, then the sea would run out before the words of my Lord run out;" even if We were to bring another like it for its aid." - Surah 18109
The Quran that is written down is only 114 chapters long. It doesn't take a sea of ink to print it. It is not the sum of God's wisdom.
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As long as this elaboration does not add any laws, change any laws, contradict the quran, nor change the view/message/image of the Deen as presented by the quran. Then that is fine.
The statement still stands>> As far as our Deen is concerned, the quran is a complete and fully detailed.
I love it when the verses that point this out are mentioned but then people go on to say " That is fine, but......"
BUT, what? Do we not have faith in God's words? No BUTs, 6115
Regards
Salaam brother
Quran is complete
Quran is muffassal
Quran is Tibyaan
Quran is tells every thing .
These words used by the quran are usuall usually heard.
But what is the Practice ? Sunny Salaat (ask the reason = lame exucuses) Why ???
Prove practically brother. Verbally much can be said. Actual thing is practibillity. If it is not there every sermon is fruitless.We should try to prove these Quranic Claims and not do otherwise round
We are a different community from Sunnis. We have nothing to do with them and they have nothing to do with us.
Regards
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Peace
salam,
Is Qur'an complete? If yes, then could anyone please show me where in the Qur'an 5-daily salat are mentioned also how to offer these salat prayers?
pbuh
If The 5 Times Daily Salat Prayers are not mentioned in The Qur'an , then why are you doing it ?
almarh0m
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Salaam brother
Quran is complete
Quran is muffassal
Quran is Tibyaan
Quran is tells every thing .
These words used by the quran are usuall usually heard.
But what is the Practice ?Salaam,
Thank you for proving my point.
You seem to disregard God's words in the quran and take them lightly. They wash over you in less than a second. When the verses of God hit you, you will not ask such questions. Nor will you need a BUT after these statements.
In your post, you refer to the statements by saying 'These words used by the quran are usually heard'. Do you know you are talking about God's words? And so what if they are usually heard? It seems the main points of these verses have not hit you. You seem dissatisfied with God's words and assurances that His book is complete and fully detailed.
After reading all the above verses I am contented that The Qur'an is complete and fully detailed , any defect in my understanding is due either to my own lazyness or my lack of intellectual capacity and nothing else . After all , how many times must The God tell us that The Qur'an is easy , complete and fully detailed ? Here are some more Verses for further readings 638 , 413 , 6114 . Our Lord , increase our knowledge and grant us wisdom from yourself .
Peace
almarh0m
The answer to your question is in the quran if you choose to see it. First, have faith in God's words that you refer to so lightly in your post. Then adopt almarh0m's approach and you will probably find the answer to your question, or indeed see that your question is wrong in the first instance.
But what is the Practice ? Sunny Salaat (ask the reason = lame exucuses) Why ???
Prove practically brother. Verbally much can be said. Actual thing is practibillity. If it is not there every sermon is fruitless.We should try to prove these Quranic Claims and not do otherwise round
We are a different community from Sunnis. We have nothing to do with them and they have nothing to do with us.
Regards
Brother, just because someone follows the traditional method of prayer does not make them sunni. Nor is it called a sunni salat. Nor does it mean you are using other sources. The sources that detail this 'sunni salat' you refer to came 200 years after it was established, maybe more if this indeed was the traditional prayer long before Mohamed's time.
As I said in an earlier post in this thread, I follow this traditional prayer, but that does not mean that a different physical prayer is wrong. See my example of a one ruka'ah prayer with 5 rukoo3 and 5 sujood. What if I pray like this? Does that mean I am using another source other than the quran for my physical prayer? Let me make up a different physical prayer...... 2 raka'ah, one rukoo3, 4 sujood (and ofcourse, following the guidlines for physical prayer like ablution and not speaking too loudly not too quietly). Is this wrong? No.
Now following the same concept, I make up a salat similar to the traditional one.
If you study the topic of salat, which you obviously are doing, then free your mind of any ideas/images of what salat should be. It seems you have this view that there is only one specific ritual that has to be correct, and you cannot find that in the quran. Thus your attitude to the verses mentioned above and your obvious annoyance when they are constantly repeated.
We should try to prove these Quranic Claims and not do otherwise round
I think you mean, we should try and act according to these quranic TRUTHS.
There is no need to prove any quranic claim. All quranic claims are 100% true as they are the words of God. Prove to yourself that the quran is the word of God, and that is all you have to do.
Trying to stick to the point of the thread, what do you make of the narrations stating that there are 5 pillars of Islam? How does this sit with you bearing in mind the quran is complete and fully detailed?
Regards
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Peace Q_s,
please watch both of theses vids http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=as_7cddmBsk
and http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eMnoF67jkk&feature=related"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." (6114)
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salam,
Is Qur'an complete? If yes, then could anyone please show me where in the Qur'an 5-daily salat are mentioned also how to offer these salat prayers?
pbuh
God has a reason for not mentioning unneccessary details (like how to eat, how to sleep, how to get intimate, how to scrub your ass and teeth) because he doesn't want people to be reading and memorizing more than they should in his eyes.
You'll also notice that details of prayer are also not that important, because it's the heart and willing to pray that matters. My grandma could not stand on her two legs, crouch and repeat this 5 times a day.
I believe the Quran mentions either 3 or 2 prayers, but I think it's 2. It mentions Fajr and the night prayer, which is known today as Isha.
The interesting thing to note that even in all the hadith books, which has words summing up to more than double or triple of the words contained in the Quran, does not give details on how to pray. Maybe more detail, but it still leaves you with questions. Yet this is the most prominent argument hadithiest use. Talk about FAIL. nope
