Proof FOR Mecca being the place of Hajj
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There is a haj section where you can look at endless debates about this.
At the time I was in concurrent debate with another chap who was very much anti-Jerusalem, but pro Mecca. However his evidences (which have moved me to some extent) consisted of finding flaws with Jerusalem only, whilst still implying Mecca was the place of hajj.
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I?m on the fence with this, too. The idea that Becca can somehow mean Mecca is absurd. But before the establishment of the Temple in Jerusalem (Becca) by Solomon, the Israelites had numerous ?shrines? dedicated to God that acted kind of like Mosques. Supposedly only Priests could dedicate them (this might be a Jewish gloss) but before the institution of the Cohen (priesthood) all the Avot (patriarchs) could dedicate shrines. It would be perfectly believable that the Kaaba could be a shrine built by Ishmael and his father and that the Arabs preferred that shrine over any other due to familiarity. Of course Sunni and Shia go one further and ascribe to Mecca everything the Jews ascribe to The Temple. All of which is forbidden by the Quran. If God doesn?t create leaving fissures, how can you say Mecca is earth?s belly-button? And it?s certainly not the center of the earth ? that would assume a flat earth. I?d have no problem buying that the Kaaba in Mecca is an acceptable shrine if the Quran was less ambiguous about it. The Maqam Abraham is completely blown out proportion by ?Orthodox? Muslim exegetes. Marwa and Safa could easily be Moriah and the Stone of the temple. Jews believed that after the destruction of The Temple these areas were off limits, but the Quran seems to say that it?s acceptable to approach them. Might explain why Christians of the time felt compelled to dump dead animals and dung and rubbish on top of it.
But even if you try to reconcile the Bible with Quran, where does that leave The Temple now? After the Muslims took Jerusalem, why not return pilgrimage there? Does everyone get their own shrine based on history? Where does that leave converts outside either Semitic group?
It?s tempting to say that the same thing happened to the Arabs that happened to Christians and Jews. Once they were dominated by converted pagans they filled the faith with their previous bad habits. The ?stoning of the devil? and life-threatening circling is flatly recorded as Avodah Zara by the Jews (in relation to rituals practiced by Romans and Persians at the time) well before the advent of The Prophet. And you don?t have to be a Jew or a cynic to see why. Bottom line, I?m not sure what conclusion to draw.
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I?m on the fence with this, too. The idea that Becca can somehow mean Mecca is absurd. But before the establishment of the Temple in Jerusalem (Becca) by Solomon, the Israelites had numerous ?shrines? dedicated to God that acted kind of like Mosques. Supposedly only Priests could dedicate them (this might be a Jewish gloss) but before the institution of the Cohen (priesthood) all the Avot (patriarchs) could dedicate shrines. It would be perfectly believable that the Kaaba could be a shrine built by Ishmael and his father and that the Arabs preferred that shrine over any other due to familiarity. Of course Sunni and Shia go one further and ascribe to Mecca everything the Jews ascribe to The Temple. All of which is forbidden by the Quran. If God doesn?t create leaving fissures, how can you say Mecca is earth?s belly-button? And it?s certainly not the center of the earth ? that would assume a flat earth. I?d have no problem buying that the Kaaba in Mecca is an acceptable shrine if the Quran was less ambiguous about it. The Maqam Abraham is completely blown out proportion by ?Orthodox? Muslim exegetes. Marwa and Safa could easily be Moriah and the Stone of the temple. Jews believed that after the destruction of The Temple these areas were off limits, but the Quran seems to say that it?s acceptable to approach them. Might explain why Christians of the time felt compelled to dump dead animals and dung and rubbish on top of it.
But even if you try to reconcile the Bible with Quran, where does that leave The Temple now? After the Muslims took Jerusalem, why not return pilgrimage there? Does everyone get their own shrine based on history? Where does that leave converts outside either Semitic group?
It?s tempting to say that the same thing happened to the Arabs that happened to Christians and Jews. Once they were dominated by converted pagans they filled the faith with their previous bad habits. The ?stoning of the devil? and life-threatening circling is flatly recorded as Avodah Zara by the Jews (in relation to rituals practiced by Romans and Persians at the time) well before the advent of The Prophet. And you don?t have to be a Jew or a cynic to see why. Bottom line, I?m not sure what conclusion to draw.
Peace
Please also refer to this discussion also.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598192.0
Regards