the Quran definitely discourages capital punishment ------- RK
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(217 O you who believe, equivalence is
the law decreed for you when
dealing with murder--the free
for the free, the slave for the slave,
the female for the female. If one is
pardoned by the victim's kin,
an appreciative response is in order,
and an equitable compensation
shall be paid. This is an alleviation
from your Lord and mercy. Anyone
who transgresses beyond this incurs
a painful retribution.(2179) Equivalence is a life saving law for
you, O you who possess intelligence,
that you may be righteous.The Koran could be talking about revenge killings, very common among the tribes which usually ends up out of control. But I really do not see your point. What exactly are you trying to say?
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The Koran could be talking about revenge killings, very common among the tribes which usually ends up out of control. But I really do not see your point. What exactly are you trying to say?
Brother Q_s is trying to refute the fact that the Quran discourages capital punishment, and I am giving a counter-arguement for that. God definitely condemns revenge/"honor" killings. Revenge/"honor" killing is a form of aggression.
Note the following in (217
"...If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order,
and an equitable compensation shall be paid." -
Dear Brother
As I have always told you RK was a Cheat and Edip is his followers. Quran does not allow me to trust such persons.
Yusaf Ali translate it "Equality". Equality is not equal to Equivalence.
Mangoes are equal to mangoes
Mangoes are not equal to dollars but may be equivalent to dollars.
Equality is somewhat acceptable but not Equivalence. Please in future never quote illiterate persons.
RegardsThis is not the first knee-jerk nonsence produced by Q_student. He is splitting the literary hair of a word, yet unable to comprehend that such a literary nuance has no relevancy in this argument.
This will be my last post as a reply to this person.
Peace,
Edip -
This is not the first knee-jerk nonsence produced by Q_student. He is splitting the literary hair of a word, yet unable to comprehend that such a literary nuance has no relevancy in this argument.
This will be my last post as a reply to this person.
Peace,
Edippeace Exactly. Dear Q_student, I think just because you oppose Rashad Khalifa you attack all of his views. If a Bahai comes to you and says "worhship God alone", do you object just because he is a Bahai???
@ Edip
Please respond to the PM which I sent to you about salaat/namaz
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Dear Q_student, I think just because you oppose Rashad Khalifa you attack all of his views. If a Bahai comes to you and says "worhship God alone", do you object just because he is a Bahai???
Brother Peace
It is the point where you are misguided by Richard Kalif alias Rashid Khalifa.
Quran says631
(631) O Prophet, when the hypocrites come to you, they say, "We bear witness that you are indeed Allah's Messenger." Yes, Allah knows that you are indeed His Messenger, but Allah bars witness that these Hypocrites are utter liars.
It is clearly says that a "shahaadah" of a munaafiq is not acceptable though it may be 100% correct.Because he must be speaking the truth to cheat and dodge the people
Regards -
Student,
Brother Peace
It is the point where you are misguided by Richard Kalif alias Rashid Khalifa.
Quran says631
(631) O Prophet, when the hypocrites come to you, they say, "We bear witness that you are indeed Allah's Messenger." Yes, Allah knows that you are indeed His Messenger, but Allah bars witness that these Hypocrites are utter liars.
It is clearly says that a "shahaadah" of a munaafiq is not acceptable though it may be 100% correct.Because he must be speaking the truth to cheat and dodge the people
RegardsYou clearly are projecting.
As I have always told you RK was a Cheat and Edip is his followers. Quran does not allow me to trust such persons.
Yusaf Ali translate it "Equality". Equality is not equal to Equivalence.
Mangoes are equal to mangoes
Mangoes are not equal to dollars but may be equivalent to dollars.
Equality is somewhat acceptable but not Equivalence. Please in future never quote illiterate persons.whatever
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Student,
Dear Brother
As I have always told you RK was a Cheat and Edip is his followers. Quran does not allow me to trust such persons.
Yusaf Ali translate it "Equality". Equality is not equal to Equivalence.
Mangoes are equal to mangoes
Mangoes are not equal to dollars but may be equivalent to dollars.
Equality is somewhat acceptable but not Equivalence. Please in future never quote illiterate persons.
RegardsNot all mangoes are equal. No mangos are equal to Alfonso's. And this special treat http//s174.photobucket.com/albums/w113/HouseView/?action=view¤t=Camel-Mango-Pickle-Big.jpg has no equal in market.
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Salaam Brothers and sisters
Source http//www.submission.ws/quran/appendices/appendix37.html
But Quran says
Regards
Salaam Student
I also believe that there is no capital punishment in the quraan. This verse, IMO, has nothing to do with people. Does it mean if a slave of mine is killed by a free, the free should not be killed for him and only a slave should take the punishment?!
Moeover, means equivalnce, compensation. From the root is derived the word / story, which is the verbal equivalent of what really happend in reality. Aslo in the qur'aan we have the verse 1864Moses said "That was what we were seeking after" So they went back on their footsteps, following (the path they had come).
Which means they made an equal journy back on their footsteps. -
Salaam Student
I also believe that there is no capital punishment in the quraan. This verse, IMO, has nothing to do with people. Does it mean if a slave of mine is killed by a free, the free should not be killed for him and only a slave should take the punishment?!
Moeover, means equivalnce, compensation. From the root is derived the word / story, which is the verbal equivalent of what really happend in reality. Aslo in the qur'aan we have the verse 1864Moses said "That was what we were seeking after" So they went back on their footsteps, following (the path they had come).
Which means they made an equal journy back on their footsteps.Salaam Sister
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Quran says
Regards
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Salaam Student
It's again circular argument. You do not redo the steps when it's "following the traces", nor do you reenact the events when you retell a story, otherwise, qasaas would mean copy. It's not. It's equivalent. Otherwise tell me what's the meaning of ? Is it to excute a "free man" if the victim is a free man, irrespective of who the murderer is?
If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever) And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
Where's capital punishment here?
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Salaam Student
It's again circular argument. You do not redo the steps when it's "following the traces", nor do you reenact the events when you retell a story, otherwise, qasaas would mean copy. It's not. It's equivalent. Otherwise tell me what's the meaning of ? Is it to excute a "free man" if the victim is a free man, irrespective of who the murderer is?
If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever) And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
Where's capital punishment here?
Dear Samia
I think you are struck up.
What is the meaning of Qisaas as per your understanding.
Please provide the evidence for it .Thanks -
Dear Samia
I think you are struck up.
What is the meaning of Qisaas as per your understanding.
Please provide the evidence for it .ThanksSalaam student
Why should I answer your questions and give evidence if you do not bother to reply to the question I asked you twice? You are the one who brought up verse 2178 without explaining what you understand of qasaas in its context. You are not debating, but sitting like a chief inspector asking questions and demanding proof!
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Salaam student
Why should I answer your questions and give evidence if you do not bother to reply to the question I asked you twice? You are the one who brought up verse 2178 without explaining what you understand of qasaas in its context. You are not debating, but sitting like a chief inspector asking questions and demanding proof!
I have said this a few times.... The discussions lead nowhere.
Q_student, you have proved your point regarding RK, and your posts are becoming ruder and ruder. You label people with shirk, call them liers, and hypocrites, and I have proven to you how much of a hypocrite you've been on this forum. I think you should move on.
Like I said before, there are bigger lies than those RK stated. I don't see you attacking them with the same passion as you do RK's.
If you really believe these people are mushrik then shouldn't you follow 6108?
Look it up yourself.... you're not worth the effort of cutting and pasting the verse, you clearly do not read posts and replies properly.
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Salaam student
Why should I answer your questions and give evidence if you do not bother to reply to the question I asked you twice? You are the one who brought up verse 2178 without explaining what you understand of qasaas in its context. You are not debating, but sitting like a chief inspector asking questions and demanding proof!
Salaam sister
You cannot say this . Probably you missed my post of thisSalaam Sister
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Regards
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Salaam sister
You cannot say this . Probably you missed my post of thisSalaam Sister
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Salaam student
1- This is not your answer. This is a copy/paste
2- This is not my question. I never asked you what the word "qasaas" meant. -
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Salaam student
1- This is not your answer. This is a copy/paste
2- This is not my question. I never asked you what the word "qasaas" meant.Salaam sister
1I did not translate them (probably then they might have become my answer) because I am 100% sure you know arabic (as I have seen in certain posts before)
2We have basic difference in Qisaas which you said it is equivalence and recompensation (if I correctly remember).So its meanings were first to be established.Anyway ,thank you for your input.
Regards -
Salaam Student
It's again circular argument. You do not redo the steps when it's "following the traces", nor do you reenact the events when you retell a story, otherwise, qasaas would mean copy. It's not. It's equivalent. Otherwise tell me what's the meaning of ? Is it to excute a "free man" if the victim is a free man, irrespective of who the murderer is?
If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever) And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
Where's capital punishment here?
Samia brought a good point. The verse says
2.178. O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
It means compensation. However it is not clear how the compensation was divided among the criterias mentioned. Maybe there was a common law about the price to be paid for free men and free women and slaves. But it is not about capital punishment since you don't persecute except the killer. What difference does it make who the killer killed if he would be executed? Obviously its about compensation of some sort.
It could also mean this punishment should be applied to anyone regardless of his social status. The Verse is still not clear as is most theocratic verses in the Koran.
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Student,
Not all mangoes are equal. No mangos are equal to Alfonso's. And this special treat http//s174.photobucket.com/albums/w113/HouseView/?action=view¤t=Camel-Mango-Pickle-Big.jpg has no equal in market.
rotfl bravo
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Samia brought a good point. The verse says
2.178. O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
It means compensation. However it is not clear how the compensation was divided among the criterias mentioned. Maybe there was a common law about the price to be paid for free men and free women and slaves. But it is not about capital punishment since you don't persecute except the killer. What difference does it make who the killer killed if he would be executed? Obviously its about compensation of some sort.
It could also mean this punishment should be applied to anyone regardless of his social status. The Verse is still not clear as is most theocratic verses in the Koran.
"A.L.R. These are the signs of the clear book" 121
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I think that 2.178 is not properly understood or translated
as far as I can ascertain does not mean murder, rather it is the plural o a killed person. It would be as I see it Al qissas is prescribed to you where people get killed.
Further on, on translation it is implied that only the brother of the person killed would be able to remit any of the penalty (like half the death penalty? or a fourth?). So only those the killers pf those who have a brother may get a remission? Seems completely idiotic. I think that the "brother", here means brethren or folks. I do not think if is talking about murder and I do not think it is talking aobut punishment but about civil compensation. That is the way it makes sense. And taken as that it certainly makes sense.
Salaam