Why are some people in the world poor beggers?
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Peace,
Respectfully.Because of freemasons, because of illuminati, becauswe of zionists.
We all know that the central bank in New York is responsible for the recession that is making us all depressed and miserable. We are all aware that there is only one way to prevent poor people staying in that state - we must first unite, stand strong and make an argument.How?
By implementing these three verses into society
2215 They ask you what they should spend, say ?What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, God is fully aware of it.?
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much they are to give, say ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Eat from its fruit when it blossoms and give its due on the day of harvest; and do not waste. He does not like the wasteful.
How do we implemet these three rules into society?
Well, this is just the beginning but i think and believe that we must have like conferences with nonMuslims and sunnis as well and create a dialogue. God willing.Glory be to God.
Peace. -
I know, I know! This is just a prelude to another not so simple theory as to why...unless one answers in a koanlike manner "we are all poor beggars". Maybe we can delay the inevitable this way.
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I know, I know! One is a "poor beggar" if they fulfill both of the following criteria
poor having little money or few possessions, lacking in specific resources, qualities or substances, inadequate not sufficient to meet a need.
AND
beggar reduce to beggary, a pauper who lives by begging, to request something in a supplicating manner.
Simple. <waits patiently for his gold star>
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peace
When you say beggers, then you probabely mean they are very poor.
I agree with alen on this part
How?By implementing these three verses into society
2215 They ask you what they should spend, say ?What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, God is fully aware of it.?
I do ask myself why if God is Almighty, then does he permit this? In the case of natural disasters, human's are not really responsible as it is not their will.
Then i think to myself, i cannot judge them (poor beggers) on
- how happy they really are in comparison to us
- whether that's what they deserve or not
I can only PROPERLY judge my own life.
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Peace,
Respectfully.Because of freemasons, because of illuminati, becauswe of zionists.
We all know that the central bank in New York is responsible for the recession that is making us all depressed and miserable. We are all aware that there is only one way to prevent poor people staying in that state - we must first unite, stand strong and make an argument.How?
By implementing these three verses into society
2215 They ask you what they should spend, say ?What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, God is fully aware of it.?
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much they are to give, say ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Eat from its fruit when it blossoms and give its due on the day of harvest; and do not waste. He does not like the wasteful.
How do we implemet these three rules into society?
Well, this is just the beginning but i think and believe that we must have like conferences with nonMuslims and sunnis as well and create a dialogue. God willing.Glory be to God.
Peace.Hi Allen, I think a lot of the people in the world do implement these things in there every day- but are still poor beggars-miserable.
Yet I am sure there are people some who don't even acknowledge God and yet don't come into this scenario at all but do very well in life enjoying there existence and all.
So the question was what is making one set stay in there misery and yet something else making the other prosperous.
I think all you guy's are very talented and can give a good analytical opinion.
So is it a false sense of satisfaction some people have created or create in themselves and stop or don't strive and struggle to better them?
Example or two;
Some may feel satisfied because they do get to fulfill their rituals - to them that is enough , as that will give them paradise so everything is okay....forget the better life and the hardship that will be involved for the education of their kids.......
Some feel that there jobs gives them bread and butter and a roof over their heads , that is okay...forget about the education of the kids they will get what ever is that they deserve e.t.c
peace
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Peace,
Respectfully.Basically what i wanted to say, is that because of freemasons, illuminati and the zionists, there are some people who are pushed into beggars and being poor. Now, at this point, some people among the poor and the beggars, find a way out - police calls it stealing, poor and beggars call it survival. Between poor and the beggars are men and women and at this intersection we must be able to see this reality men always choose to survive by stealing back what was originally stolen from them. I have met women who have chosen different lifestyle - prostituiton. I have seen poor women and men who sleep on the streets. I have spoken to girls - not women - girls, younger then me, who are doing things for their children which even some married women don't do.
The girls i spoke to, who are forced to do things that married people do, should go back to high school and college. But i can't help them all. I'm just one man. Is there anyone out there who might wanna join me to eradicate prostituition? I have met several girls in Leicester who really need our help. Not with money, not with weapons, but they need friends. They need real friends who will respect them.
These girls who are used for sex, are being treated like coffee machines and i have had just about enough.
May The Exalted God Most Powerful help us all.Peace.
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Government interference into the economy makes people poor. Capitalism makes hard working entrepreneurs fabulously rich and these fabulously rich people hire lots of people and the bigger a business gets, the cheaper its goods and services get, which benefits consumers.
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1671 And God has preferred some of you over others in provision. Those who have been preferred will not relinquish their provision to those who are committed to them by oath, so they may become equal in it. Are they denying the favor of God?
Just like it is natural for the god to be more powerful (almighty in fact) and more independent (to the point of being completely independent) than humans, it's natural for some humans to be richer and more prosperous than others. This is one of the god's laws and violating the god's laws always, always leads to misery.
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Peace,
Respectfully.Basically what i wanted to say, is that because of freemasons, illuminati and the zionists, there are some people who are pushed into beggars and being poor. Now, at this point, some people among the poor and the beggars, find a way out - police calls it stealing, poor and beggars call it survival. Between poor and the beggars are men and women and at this intersection we must be able to see this reality men always choose to survive by stealing back what was originally stolen from them. I have met women who have chosen different lifestyle - prostituiton. I have seen poor women and men who sleep on the streets. I have spoken to girls - not women - girls, younger then me, who are doing things for their children which even some married women don't do.
Peace
I agree with you. I don't know the exact percentage that owns most of the money in the world. Do they even need the money? And they still cheat on the the labour and produce of these poor countries.
They say that give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime (Lao Tzu)
It would be cheap to give someone a fish. But it will just feed him until he is hungry again. To teach him it will cost more but the results are unlimited.
No matter how many charities there are, there are still millions of poor people because there will never be enough money to go round if that small percentage is being greedy and holding onto most of the money.
So what can we do? We can prefer the luxuries of the hereafter over the luxuries of this world. Whether we know it or not we live in luxury. Look inside your wardrobe and you will find unworn clothes that you do not need. Look inside your fridge or your kitchen bin and you will see uneaten food. Even hot water and central heating is a luxury.
I think we can all make a difference even in one person's life.
By the way, if you want, I can message you my email address if your friend wants someone to talk to.God bless
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Peace simple,
I think your options are far too limited. This is not a question that can be answered as simply (no pun intended) as you seek. I think that your question seeks to address symptoms of the problem rather than the root cause. This will result in symptomatic treatment which only ends up hiding the real problem.
By way of an example, I will put this forward. Let's say that someone suffers from allergies. If this person takes medication to alleviate the symptoms, but continues to eat that which he/she is allergic to, there will never be relief from the problem, only from the symptoms. This is the way most people, communities, nations tend to deal with problems. This is where I believe most of us fall short in trying to establish truth.
The first thing to remember imo is that everyone who doesn't suffer from a physical/mental limitation has the capability to contribute to society. This capability has been given to each individual through different means, e.g genetic disposition, personal interests, opportunities available, etc.
Some of these means are considered to be beyond the control of the individual & some not. Not withstanding this, all of these means do have a common thread, which is that they are all a result of the natural laws of God.
I do not here mean in any way the concept of predestination or pre determination, because this concept is contrary to many verses of AQ. Some examples in AQ are those which tell us that we are personally responsible for ourselves & our actions as well as the fact that we are rewarded & punished. This could not occur if we had no choice. In the second option of your poll you present this as a possibility, but this option is a non-starter since it contradicts AQ.
Your first option too is not an option since the concept of God providing is not some kind of magical or whimsical thing God does. This concept actually refers to God providing the means for everyone's basic needs to be taken care of. The real problem is the unjust manner in which wealth is distributed. I do not mean only that people who are rich don't give enough charity to the poor, but rather that we tend to value the capability & worth of people in an arbitrary manner. In fact, I don't like the word charity. I see "sadaqa" as the right of those in need to the excess that I have. "Sadaqa" is, in any event only a stepping stone to the establishment of true economic justice as contained in a true Islamic society.
By the way, I voted "other".
Peace
Imraan
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Peace Alen
We are all aware that there is only one way to prevent poor people staying in that state - we must first unite, stand strong and make an argument.
How?
By implementing these three verses into society
2215 They ask you what they should spend, say ?What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, God is fully aware of it.?
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much they are to give, say ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Eat from its fruit when it blossoms and give its due on the day of harvest; and do not waste. He does not like the wasteful.
How do we implemet these three rules into society?
Well, this is just the beginning but i think and believe that we must have like conferences with nonMuslims and sunnis as well and create a dialogue. God willing.Glory be to God.
Peace.I agree with you. I think that one of the main obstacles intrying to free ourselves from the shackles of capitalism is that we all feel (especially as individuals) that we cannot succeed in establishing the system of God. Unity is a key, but the first step is small groups of like minded people etsablishing themselves & implementing what they can. remember that the establishment of justice did not happen overnight with any of the messengers. It takes patience & time. There are those who move forward when all odds are against them & those who wait for it to be a little easier. Let's endeavour to be of the former rather than the latter.
I am part of a small group of people in South Africa trying to establish a society based on Quranic principles, a society in which all members have their basic needs taken care of through the society, regardless of what function each individual performs within the society. It is slow going because we are feeling our way around still trying to establish the ideals of such a society as a goal to work towards. Also there are members who are more reday to move forward than others. THis is not due to a lack of commitment, but rather the fact that all of us come in with different situations in regard to debt, lifestyle, possessions, etc. We keep moving forward, though.
If there are any groups of like mind out there, it would be great to hear from you.
Imraan
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Peace nimnimak_11
I do ask myself why if God is Almighty, then does he permit this? In the case of natural disasters, human's are not really responsible as it is not their will.
Then i think to myself, i cannot judge them (poor beggers) on
- how happy they really are in comparison to us
- whether that's what they deserve or not
The misconception of "God permits this" is extremely misleading. These natural disaters result from natural laws that God has established in the creation of this environment we live in. "He permits it" only in the sense that He does not miraculously intervene when His natural laws take effect.
As for "how happy they are in comparison to us" & "whether that's what they deserve or not", these are only ideas in which we seek to justify our greed & choice to ignore what is due to these people. In fact, most of these misconceptions stem from an erroneous concept of what the quranic term "taqdeer" represents. It certainly does not represent predestination & predetermination of what we will & will not do.
Imraan
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Peace Supernaut
671 And God has preferred some of you over others in provision. Those who have been preferred will not relinquish their provision to those who are committed to them by oath, so they may become equal in it. Are they denying the favor of God?
This is an interesting verse. I have wanted to discuss it for some time now.
It seems to be translated in two different ways. I will list some of the alternatives below.
While most translators interpret it in the manner you have quoted above, I wonder if any of those with a good grounding in Arabic can shed some light on why it is sometimes translated/interpreted as follows
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And on some of you God has bestowed more abundant means of sustenance than on others and yet, they who are more abundantly favoured are unwilling to share their sustenance with those whom their right hands possess, so that they might be equal in this respect. Will they, then, God's blessings deny? Asad
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And Allah has caused some of you to excel in earning livelihood over the others (4332). And yet, they who are more abundantly provided are often unwilling to share their provision with those who work for them, lest all might be equal in this respect (7024), (302. Will they continue to deny Allah's blessings in this manner? (1653), (287, (3949). Shabbir Ahmed
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Different individuals possess different capacities for work. Every programme or project requires the co-operation of all for its accomplishment (43/32). The Divine Niz?am-e-Rabubiyyat requires that the produce should be distributed amongst all according to their needs. Those who possess greater capability (or power) generally do not adhere to this Niz?am thinking that according to this arrangement all will be equal and they, therefore, take more than the others (30/2. They thus, assert that the means of production and the capacity to earn are not endowed by Allah (16/53, 24/33, 28/78, 39/49). Parwez
Imraan
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Peace 1CELOSTNOWFOUND,
I don't know any Arabic so I can't comment on how 671 should be translated, but Parwez's translation of 671 is very immoral. The practice of distributing produce according to people's needs requires that some people be extorted for the sake of others. I'm willing to bet that the free-minds.org translation's closer to the true meaning of 671 because it's supposed to be a literal translation.
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Peace Supernaut
I don't know any Arabic so I can't comment on how 671 should be translated, but Parwez's translation of 671 is very immoral. The practice of distributing produce according to people's needs requires that some people be extorted for the sake of others. I'm willing to bet that the free-minds.org translation's closer to the true meaning of 671 because it's supposed to be a literal translation.
I don't see this as being immoral. Nobody is being extorted. He is talking about a society in which evry able person is required to contribute to society.
My opinion is that people who want to benefit from an Iskamic society needs to be willing to contribute to that society. When AQ mentions that there is no compulsion in "deen", it does not mean that there is no compulsion & that's the end of it. I think that there is no compulsion in the system one chooses to follow, but once you have chosen a system, you are compelled to follow that system by upholding its principles.
From your post it seems that you are a capitalist at heart, I lean more towards socialism. Either way, niether one compares with Islam. I once tried to initiate a discussion on this forum regarding whether the system of Islam has been better copied by capitalism or socialism, but there was almost zero response. Maybe this is the start of that dialogue.
Imraan
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Peace 1CELOSTNOWFOUND,
I don't see this as being immoral. Nobody is being extorted. He is talking about a society in which evry able person is required to contribute to society.
If people contribute willingly, without being forced, then that's A-OK, but people should never be taxed. Tax is extortion because the government uses the threat of violence to ensure people pay their taxes. That seems immoral/unislamic to me. Where in the great reading are the believers commanded to force people to pay sadaqa or contribute to zakat? Nowhere. Yes, the god does warn people of Hell and of an upheaval in society if they don't do those things, but those are only the natural consequences of not paying sadaqa or contributing to zakat. The god tells us that idol worshipers will always do stupid things, that a society of idol worshipers will always be backward and that idol worshipers will go to Hell, but It doesn't tell us to persecute them. Do you get what I'm saying (I'm in a rush so I might not have explained too well)? Greed and idol worship are punished by the god's natural laws; no human has the authority to enforce those natural laws.
My opinion is that people who want to benefit from an Iskamic society needs to be willing to contribute to that society.
Be a bit more specific. People only benefit from three things peaceful trade, charity and force. Charity's okay and trade's dandy, but the use of force or the threat of the use of force are horrible!
When AQ mentions that there is no compulsion in "deen", it does not mean that there is no compulsion & that's the end of it.
No, I think it does.
I think that there is no compulsion in the system one chooses to follow, but once you have chosen a system, you are compelled to follow that system by upholding its principles.
I disagree. If you read 542-55, you'll see that every group is allowed to live according to its own laws and 2256 tells us that no one should be forced to follow islam. Muslims can choose to take other people as their awliya (which I very humbly believe should be translated as "Patrons" in 551 and not "Allies", but are told that doing so would make them disbelievers.
From your post it seems that you are a capitalist at heart
One billion trillion zillion percent. And you might be surprised where I got my somewhat anarcho-capitalist beliefs. I don't describe myself as an anarcho-capitalist, but my humble study of the quran has lead me to conclude that the quran's political philosophy is very libertarian. I don't study the quran with a libertarian bias; the quran made me a libertarian. I learnt the word "Libertarian", the lingo libertarians use and about libertarian thinkers long after I developed my libertarian understanding of the quran.
I lean more towards socialism.
Socialism is all about subjugating people and stealing from them. It's a monstrous ideology that I think islam is diametrically opposed to.
Either way, niether one compares with Islam. I once tried to initiate a discussion on this forum regarding whether the system of Islam has been better copied by capitalism or socialism, but there was almost zero response. Maybe this is the start of that dialogue.
Imraan
I suppose it is, but I won't be able to partake in this discussion because I'm really, really busy these days.
