Well Here Goes...
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Peace Meteora,
Well..I spent a little more time on this board. It seems you are well aquainted with the 19 issue and have gone far in arguing with 19ers (like Edip) for a while and are a code rejector in general.
Yes, I am a rejector of moronic codes like the Bible Code and Code 19. All those stupid codes simply rely on numerology trial and error and presenting to an ignorant naive audience the successful trials while hiding the failed trials. The fact is that in any random sample of numbers 1 out of 19 numbers is going to be divisible by 19. All that the code worshippers do is present the successes and hide the failures.
Even, Edip acknowledged the fact that Khalifa conducted thousands of trials and only presented his successful trials.
I however have much faith in it and that's the point.
You might as well have faith in Santa Claus and the Toothfairy.
If you don't believe it's a sign/miracle because it doesn't work every time someone tries to see it's a multiple of something, that's fine. What if the failed trials are just the false formulas they concocted?
Both the failed and successful trials are random formulas that Khalifa and 19er concocted. If they showed you both the failures and successes then you would see that their success ratio is 1 in 19, which is the same as in any random sample. This is why they carefully hide their failed trials.
The right ones are the right ones. For the record I'm not more obsessed with the number (hardly obsessed actually) than with God's words and laws. Right now I acknowledge it as nothing more than a preservation code for the Quran.
You said that without the Code "we may as well not believe in the Quran", so you are definitely obsessed with this stupid Code. It is OK, people who are obsessed with something, never readily admit it.
It doesn't preserve anything except the delusions and obsessions of those who are ignorant of the basic principles of mathematics and yet put their faith in a "mathematical" miracle which is not even a mathematical system, let alone a miracle.
Peace,
Ayman
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You said that without the Code "we may as well not believe in the Quran", so you are definitely obsessed with this stupid Code. It is OK, people who are obsessed with something, never readily admit it.
Sorry to but in, but the "we may not as well believe in the Quran" argument is weak and I think you (Ayman) are obsessed with bashing Code-19.
people who are obsessed with something, never readily admit it.
From my personal experiences, I believe you can get obsessed over debating on forums, lol.
Peace,
Yaqub -
Peace Yaqub,
Sorry to but in, but the "we may not as well believe in the Quran" argument is weak and I think you (Ayman) are obsessed with bashing Code-19.
The "we may not as well believe in the Quran" argument is used by 19ers not by me so tell this to them and learn to read before making comments.
people who are obsessed with something, never readily admit it.
From my personal experiences, I believe you can get obsessed over debating on forums, lol.I think that based on what you said you are obsessed with butting in and making useless remarks.
Peace,
Ayman
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Sorry to but in, but the "we may not as well believe in the Quran" argument is weak and I think you (Ayman) are obsessed with bashing Code-19.
people who are obsessed with something, never readily admit it.
From my personal experiences, I believe you can get obsessed over debating on forums, lol.
Peace,
Yaqubbravo
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Sorry to but in, but the "we may not as well believe in the Quran" argument is weak and I think you (Ayman) are obsessed with bashing Code-19.
people who are obsessed with something, never readily admit it.
From my personal experiences, I believe you can get obsessed over debating on forums, lol.
Peace,
YaqubDear Brother
You are equally obsessed with code 19 . Otherwise you could have stopped worshipping it and believed in Allah's Quran and not RK's book.
Regrards -
Please Q_Student, it is obvious Ayman knows more about Code-19 than I do currently, and it is obvious that both you and Ayman post more than I do on the subject. So how do you conclude that I am more obsessed about it than you? rotfl
Look at all of your posts on this forum. You may not believe in the Code, but it is obvious that you are more obsessed over it than any other 19er, even if you are obsessed about bashing it.
That's all I want to say.
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Please Q_Student, it is obvious Ayman knows more about Code-19 than I do currently, and it is obvious that both you and Ayman post more than I do on the subject. So how do you conclude that I am more obsessed about it than you? rotfl
Look at all of your posts on this forum. You may not believe in the Code, but it is obvious that you are more obsessed over it than any other 19er, even if you are obsessed about bashing it.
That's all I want to say.
Salaam brother
Some obsessed with hadiths
Some obsessed with code 19
Some obsessed with inscriptions.
All these in the same category ,names and labels different.
Regards -
Ayman, please show me where you found out the gaps between verses, and the beginning of chapters, and the revelation orders were man's idea. We've established that Sura names and in-book decorations are man-made, because they aren't important.
Yes, I am a rejector of moronic codes like the Bible Code and Code 19. All those stupid codes simply rely on numerology trial and error and presenting to an ignorant naive audience the successful trials while hiding the failed trials. The fact is that in any random sample of numbers 1 out of 19 numbers is going to be divisible by 19. All that the code worshippers do is present the successes and hide the failures.
But when the successful trials happen to restore the Quran to its original format, what's the problem? It's not like the Quran, after using the code becomes so much different than the ones in the homes. There are only slight changes, those changes being nothing more than certain misspellings of words, which is believable seeing how easily we can make typos. Quran is not just about transmitting writings but it's also an oral format, and that's probably how the typos sprouted.
http//www.submission.org/quran/protect.html
Comparing the Egyptian edition to the oldest available Quran, the Tashkent Quran, will show that there have been many human errors in the Tashkent Quran that has to be corrected when the Egyptian edition was made. The errors were obvious because the Quran has always been completely memorized and kept in its oral transmission to these days and can be verified against any written book. It is impossible to consider that God meant to preserve and protect the written books for example by Uthman (the Tashkent Quran), or any other human being for this matter when they are full of human errors.
The link has posted images of the oldest available Quran being compared to the modern Arabic Qurans we have today, and show both have clearly been tampered with.
So what's wrong with using the code to find the mistakes? The code does not emit any words, or verses. The only thing it doesn't validate is 9128&129
http//www.submission.org/images/hadith.GIF
Translation `Ali was asked "Why are you staying home?" He said, "Something has been added to the Quran, and I have pledged never to put on my street clothes, except for the prayer, until the Quran is restored."http//www.submission.org/images/sura-9.gif
The Title Figure of Sura 9 from a standard Quran, showing that this
sura is Medinan, "except for the last two verses; they are Meccan"!!!Volume 6, Book 61, Number 511
Narrated Zaid bin ThabitAbu Bakr sent for me and said, "You used to write the Divine Revelations for Allah's Apostle So you should search for (the Qur'an and collect) it." I started searching for the Qur'an till I found the last two Verses of Surat At-Tauba with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari and I could not find these Verses with anybody other than him. (They were)
'Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty ...' (9.128-129)
You called Sub.org hypocrites for using hadith in their arguments to prove a point, when they reject them. This is not true (that they reject them) because they stated using them for historical evidence is alright. It's using them for religious guidance that's the mistake. God made it clear we should go by his book for religious guidance. He didn't say reject your history. God says in the Quran that the Quran was placed in Muhammad's heart, and is perserved in master tablets with Him (God), but God does not mean he will protect the Mushafs, because I can make false copies of it right now and distibute it to the world (yourself included). Hopefully you would not believe the bs at your doorstep.
So what is God protecting? Surely it must be something we can obtain, the pure word of God. If he is protecting it for us, then there's a way to uncover the true word of God. Care to tell me what works better than the code...if there's another method that is.
Both the failed and successful trials are random formulas that Khalifa and 19er concocted. If they showed you both the failures and successes then you would see that their success ratio is 1 in 19, which is the same as in any random sample. This is why they carefully hide their failed trials. You might as well have faith in Santa Claus and the Toothfairy.
You can say this to anyone who comes up to you and says "I believe in such and such". Even if the code never failed in a calculation, you can still say this to someone and tell him/her it doesn't purify the Quran, or mean God exists. I'm not saying the #19 works with every little equation someone wants to use, but I am saying it works for the right equations, the ones necessary to produce the Quran in its rightful format.
You said that without the Code "we may as well not believe in the Quran", so you are definitely obsessed with this stupid Code. It is OK, people who are obsessed with something, never readily admit it.
Could not find where I wrote this, but if I did then I am surprised. I can't say I've had a good month, and I would be obsessed with it. What's wrong with being obsessed with a sign? That God himself declared was. I am obsessed with it as much as the fact there is a line going across the moon indicating where it split and reformed when Muhammad pointed at it (whether he pointed at it or not is unknown, but it says in the Quran it has split), and that's why there are moon rocks in museums today.
It doesn't preserve anything except the delusions and obsessions of those who are ignorant of the basic principles of mathematics and yet put their faith in a "mathematical" miracle which is not even a mathematical system, let alone a miracle.
That's your opinion. You're not showing how it fails to preserve it, yet you claim so. I've posted links showing how successful it can be, yet you aren't doing your part. So, you can at least show us how it fails and come up with logical points while you're at it. You have probably did this elsewhere, but I do not have the patience and time to read through hundreds of arguments so I'll ask you here.Peace
This doesn't seem to fit with the rest of your post.
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This doesn't seem to fit with the rest of your post.
rotfl
Peace,
This is part one http//www.islamrevolution.org/9128129parti.htm
This is part two http//www.islamrevolution.org/9128129partii.htm -
lmao! Signature of Satan?! HAHAHAAHA
...a way to put it I guess...for the hardcore anti 9128&129 but I am not so. It's in the Quran, and even when it doesn't go with the code, or whatever evidence is presented in those links that I've yet to read, I'm not going to say they're Satan's words. It's not like they're...satanic, or sounding like they came from a hadith book. They actually seem to fit well within the context!
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let's say hypothetically that there is a 50/50 chance that's a big assumption to make! Even in hadith you can find good things, I wouldn't call them satan verses. Clearly it's a beautiful way to maintain hostility and rivalry not nice at all. I guess codes can make you over look things like content take 16125 for example.
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This is part one http//www.islamrevolution.org/9128129parti.htm
This is part two http//www.islamrevolution.org/9128129partii.htmAs usual and expected, the 19er who wrote the nonsensical junk in the links is a hypocrite. Therefore, here is what he starts from
1.1 What does hadiths and sunna say about 9128-129
Peace,
Ayman
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As usual and expected, the 19er who wrote the nonsensical junk in the links is a hypocrite. Therefore, here is what he starts from
1.1 What does hadiths and sunna say about 9128-129
Peace,
Ayman
he did that to convince traditionalists.
And you know what? People have already given up in trying to convince you. Ask Pierre for instance. Even I tried to convince you. But I might as well give up, since you are a rejector of the great mathematical miracle of the Quran.Besides, give me one GOOD reason for rejecting the great mathematical miracle of the Quran.
Peace
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Bookmarking that. Thanks much pro.
To all I want to apologize for the way I've been acting since the time I joined here, but that should be no surprise. It's my religion, something that I put above anything else.
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lmao! Signature of Satan?! HAHAHAAHA
...a way to put it I guess...for the hardcore anti 9128&129 but I am not so. It's in the Quran, and even when it doesn't go with the code, or whatever evidence is presented in those links that I've yet to read, I'm not going to say they're Satan's words. It's not like they're...satanic, or sounding like they came from a hadith book. They actually seem to fit well within the context!
Peace,
it was hard for me as well to reject the false verses. Believe me it is very hard at first. I was like WHAT?!! Removing verses from the Quran?! But then I realized that they are not part of the Quran.
There are also other good links that prove that they are not part of the Quran.
Besides, let me quote one of them A messenger has come to you from among you who wants no hardship to afflict you, and cares about you, and is compassionate towards the believers, merciful.
That should ring a bell in the mind of sincere believers. How on earth could God call Muhammad "merciful", when this is a divine attribute?
Besides, do you think that it is a coincidence that God DID NOT SIGN THAT CHAPTER?? IT IS THE ONLY CHAPTER IN THE ENTIRE QUAN THAT IS NOT SIGNED BY GOD (with the basmalah)!
And how many chapters later two basmalahs? ... You guessed it! Precisely 19 chapters after that!
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But some people (like the ones we know) just throw that in the category of coincidences despite how many things the #19 actually works with. They're claiming the ratio of successes to failures is 1/19, even though they cannot elaborate on this claim or even list the failures themselves.
No matter how many times you make it clear to them that any number only works with the right equations, they will simply be rejectors. I admit I have not looked into the issue of 19 as much as other people (started maybe two months ago) but I have yet to see a "failure" up to this point.
And once again, whenever a hadith is being used on the submitter side, it is only used as HISTORICAL REFERENCE and only to convince traditionalists. They are not using it as proof for their side, per se.
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But some people (like the ones we know) just throw that in the category of coincidences despite how many things the #19 actually works with. They're claiming the ratio of successes to failures is 1/19, even though they cannot elaborate on this claim or even list the failures themselves.
No matter how many times you make it clear to them that any number only works with the right equations, they will simply be rejectors. I admit I have not looked into the issue of 19 as much as other people (started maybe two months ago) but I have yet to see a "failure" up to this point.
And once again, whenever a hadith is being used on the submitter side, it is only used as HISTORICAL REFERENCE and only to convince traditionalists. They are not using it as proof for their side, per se.
Peace,
Keep in mind that there are many people out there who put together some random numbers and then get multiples of 19. Make sure that you are very critical with the info displayed, even at islamrevolution.org
Of course there are many astounding findings, but a lot of them are just from baseless numerologists who "hunt" for multiples. Rejectors of 19 take such examples and exploit them and say stuff like "see, its all baseless numerology". And I can definitely say NO! IT's NOT all baseless numerology. But dont buy everything you see.As for 9128-129 I am 100% convinced that they are not part of the Quran.
Also, the simple fact that Muhammad is called "rahim" should be immediately suspicious - IT IS AN ATTRINUTE OF GOD! -
just to comment quickly
You implicate that no one can have attributes of God? you believe no one can be merciful for example? no one at all can show any attribute of mercy?
I don't believe that, the verse indicates he is a mercy for the people, think about it. having the Quran is a mercy without it's guidance we'd be like the last followers of revelation or even worse. So Mohammed as a messenger is a mercy upon us.
Also Ayman has a point in relation to tradition, the person on the site argues traditional accounts of the last verses to further support his theory of removing the verses. Has more study been undertaken in this regard on other verses, probably not. Allahu alem.
i read somewhere that code 19 can be proven in other things such as the american declaration of independence
I don't know to much about the code but there appears to be a mixture of formula just to find the code.
also look at this for example
"The 19th occurrence of the word "God" in the Quran takes place in verse 255 (2 + 55 = 57 = 19x3)"
Why add the two to make the number a dividable by 19 and why not do the same in other verses, why are certain verses hand picked just to try prove in the 19 "miracle".
Also if he wants to argue codes and relevance of verses, how can he be sure the verses are accurately ordered? how can he take that for granted?