Anthony Wallace - a messenger or not?
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If you are a messenger, then where is your book?
Peace,
messengers don't bring books/laws. They confirm them. Prophets bring new books/laws.
Nonetheless, Anthony Wallace is not a messenger. He is... ...confused. -
Peace,
messengers don't bring books/laws. They confirm them. Prophets bring new books/laws.
Nonetheless, Anthony Wallace is not a messenger. He is... ...confused.Prophets don't necessarily bring new books. For example there is one Law of Moses but numerous prophets after him.
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Prophets doesn't necessarily bring new books. For example there is one Law of Moses but numerous prophets after him.
They bring new books/laws. For example, the Quran was revealed through Muhammad after Moses.
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They bring new books/laws. For example, the Quran was revealed through Muhammad after Moses.
Ofcourse but what about Joshua, Jeremiah, Isaiah etc. They are called prophets by the Quran and the OT. Therefore, prophethood has nothing to do with books and laws. All human messengers are prophets as they talk to the people in the name of God.
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Ofcourse but what about Joshua, Jeremiah, Isaiah etc. They are called prophets by the Quran and the OT. Therefore, prophethood has nothing to do with books and laws. All human messengers are prophets as they talk to the people in the name of God.
Peace Rami,
sometimes I wonder whether you are a Jew or whether you are a Muslim, or whatever other Monotheistic religion. (You suggested some kind of Jedi thing. lol.)
Where is your proof that Jeremiah and Isaiah are prophets?
There are 20 Prophets in the Quran
1- Abraham (also named as a prophet in 1941 and 337)
2- Isaac (also in 1949 and 37112)
3- Jacob (also in 1949)
4- Noah (also in 337)
5- David (also in 1755)
6- Solomon
7- Job
8- Joseph
9- Moses (lso in 1951 and 337)
10- Aaron (also in 1953)
11- Zachariah
12- John (also in 339)
13- Jesus (also in 1930 and 337)
14- Elias
15- Ismail (1954)
16- Elisha
17- Jonah
18- Lot
19- Idris (named a prophet in 1956)
20- Muhammad (who is confirmed to be the last of the prophets (3340)
Remember that Aaron and Moses both recieved the same scripture. Therefore the Quran is the 19th scripture.
Others (not Prophets)
Adam (described as one of the chosen 333, but not associated with the word messenger or prophet)
Hud, Saleh, and Shu 'aib (named as messengers in 26125/ 143/ 178 respectively)
Zal-Kifl (described as steadfast, patient and righteous 2185 and 384
Luqman (described as one endowed with wisdom 3112)
Nowhere in the Quran is any of these messengers associated with the term 'Scripture'. Non of them delivered a Scripture. Thus according to the definition of 2213 they are not prophets. Three of the six are called messengers (Hud, Saleh, and Shu'aib) while the other three (Adam, Zal-Kifl and Luqman) are only spoken of as receiving God's blessings.
We note that the Quran informs us that God has sent other messengers in the past that we are not told about in the Quran
"We have sent messengers before you, some of them we mentioned to you, and some We did not mention to you." 4078 (also 4164)
However, it is indeed of interest to note that the only two verses that assert that fact (4078 and 4164), both speak of messengers and not of prophets.
check http//www.quran-islam.org/125.html
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Peace;`
progressive1993,I think you are right here. In the OT also there are two chapters one Neviim and the other Ketuviim. (excuse if the spelling or word is wrong) the same as Nabiyoon and Kutub. This empahsize I think is on the connection of books with prophets and not with messengers.
Godbless.
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Peace,
messengers don't bring books/laws. They confirm them. Prophets bring new books/laws.
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat57_files/57_25.gif
Khalifa
5725 We sent our messengers supported by clear proofs, and we sent down to them the scripture and the law, that the people may uphold justice....http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat2_files/2_213.gif
Khalifa
2213 The people used to be one community when GOD sent the prophets as bearers of good news, as well as warners. He sent down with them the scripture, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes..... -
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat57_files/57_25.gif
Khalifa
5725 We sent our messengers supported by clear proofs, and we sent down to them the scripture and the law, that the people may uphold justice....http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat2_files/2_213.gif
Khalifa
2213 The people used to be one community when GOD sent the prophets as bearers of good news, as well as warners. He sent down with them the scripture, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes.....Peace,
there are messenger prophets and messengers. Please look at my earlier, longer post again.
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"Muhammad was not the father of any of your men; he was a messenger (Rasoul) of God and the last prophet (Nabi)."
Believe it or not. God does not say that Muhammad is the last messenger. Since we know that the Quran is the "Final Testament" or God's last scripture for mankind, combined with out knowledge that no more Prophets will come after Muhammad, who delivered the last Book of God, we conclude that messengers don't bring anymore scriptures.
Peace
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Peace Rami,
sometimes I wonder whether you are a Jew or whether you are a Muslim, or whatever other Monotheistic religion. (You suggested some kind of Jedi thing. lol.)
I am wondering the same thing. D
Where is your proof that Jeremiah and Isaiah are prophets?
Jewish consensus.
6- Solomon
7- Job
8- Joseph
11- Zachariah
14- Elias
16- Elisha
17- Jonah
18- Lot
Are there any evidence that they are prophets?
Remember that Aaron and Moses both recieved the same scripture. Therefore the Quran is the 19th scripture.
19th scripture!!!!! What are the other scriptures called? And why is the Book of Moses so special.
My take is a messenger is a person who carries God's message that could be anything. When God's messenger start to announce the message to the people, he becomes a prophet. So prophets are human messengers but angels speak to a specific person and don't go public. The only way a human messenger can lose the title prophet is by keeping God's message to himself.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace
"Muhammad was not the father of any of your men; he was a messenger (Rasoul) of God and the last prophet (Nabi)."
Believe it or not. God does not say that Muhammad is the last messenger. Since we know that the Quran is the "Final Testament" or God's last scripture for mankind, combined with out knowledge that no more Prophets will come after Muhammad, who delivered the last Book of God, we conclude that messengers don't bring anymore scriptures.
Peace
Could you kindly show us a verse in the Qur'an that says that , there will be no more prophet after " Muhammad " ? Do you see a word "aakhir" in 3340 ? The last time I looked , it was still "Khatam" ( Khatama an nabi ) .
Peace
almarh0m
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We do not make any distinction between one and another of His messengers.
And alenator, Il get back wit later, Lord willin. And God is suffiecent as a witness between me and you, the One who has the knowleadge of the Scripture.
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If you are a messenger, then where is your book?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598266.msg201711#msg201711
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598255.msg201710#msg201710
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597491.msg199527#msg199527
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMwIENTzoAg
Peace Rami,
I am wondering the same thing.
Jewish consensus.
Are there any evidence that they are prophets?
19th scripture!!!!! What are the other scriptures called? And why is the Book of Moses so special.
My take is a messenger is a person who carries God's message that could be anything. When God's messenger start to announce the message to the people, he becomes a prophet. So prophets are human messengers but angels speak to a specific person and don't go public. The only way a human messenger can lose the title prophet is by keeping God's message to himself.
Peace,
Rami
In the Book of Moses and in the Gospel is a shinning light and guidance. This is a reminder. And recall in the books of the prophets. Praise be to God and peace be upon His servants who He has selected. peace
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In the Book of Moses and in the Gospel is a shinning light and guidance. This is a reminder. And recall in the books of the prophets. Praise be to God and peace be upon His servants who He has selected. peace
What the?
http//gaygamer.net/images/surprised-monkey.jpg
Confused me.Peace peace
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What the?
http//gaygamer.net/images/surprised-monkey.jpg
Confused me.Peace peace
2148 And We had given Moses and Aaron the Criterion, a shining light, and reminder for the righteous.
544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jews, as well as the Rabbis, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of God?s Scripture, and they were witness over. So do not fear the people but fear Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus the son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. And We gave him the Injeel, in it is guidance and light, and to authenticate what is present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and lesson for the righteous.Are you o.k.? peace
Peace Anthony,
The mere fact that you claim your messages and understanding/interpretation of the Quran are from God is paramount to being a false messenger. We ALL have a certain understanding of the Quran and God's message, but to try to tell people that our interpretation or understanding is better than others and that they need to follow us CONTRADICTS the Quran, as I have mentioned before.
Now how do you, Anthony get around this? By being God's messenger of course! God was not speaking of YOU in the Quran Anthony, and people denying you aren't denying the messenger mentioned in the Quran. People like me who deny you and think of you as either mentally ill (schizophrenic to be exact), or gravely misguided, since you somehow believe God is speaking of you in a book from over 1400 years ago, when he was clearly speaking of Muhammad. It is sickness, and people like me who deny you only strengthens your misguidance i.e. using the verses about rejecting Muhammad and the Quran to think they are speaking of people who deny you.
Anthony, the Quran does not speak of you, and you are no more special, authorized, or annointed and worthy to be followed than anyone else here. Quite ironically, you tell us/me not to fall into the trap of rejecting God's messenger without knowledge. Ironic because we do not reject His message or messenger (Muhammad), only you. Ironic because if we were to accept you as a messenger, we would be going against the very Quran that you claim to follow. MANY times it speaks out against following other people's opinions and using our own individual reason. We are NOT to follow you Anthony Wallace, you are a false messenger who, if wrong on your views of Islam, will lead people astray. We are to rely on God ALONE for our guidance, and God ALONE is enough for me to be guided.
I think you to be sick, and feel bad for you. I know you think the Quran speaks of you, just as many a schizophrenic thinks the television and/or books are speaking directly to, or about them.
What I hope is that you are able to see the error of your ways, realize that you are not being referred to and any voice you may or may not be hearing are being brought to you from your own (or Satan's) accord.
I deny you fully Anthony Wallace, while accepting the messenger spoke of in Quran. God alone shall be witness between us and I do wish you well.
One more thing, please don't accuse me of trying to push my interpretation of the Quran on others, be it in the open or in disguise (as you specifically said). That is slander to the 10th degree, for ANYONE who knows me, my wife included will tell you that I advocate seeking God alone for guidance. I may or may not be right in my observations about Quran, but God specifically tells you and others NOT to rely on me, but to seek guidance through Him.
All praise be to God, the greatest of the great! peace
Where was God not speacking of "me" in Quran? Can you show me the verses? And can you show me where I claimed that a specific verse was specifically speaking of me and noone else? And of Muhammad specifically? Or can you show me were it is immposible for two or more people to share some of the same experiences? They called Muhammad metally ill, and misguided too; so why should I care what you think ( especially someone who doesnt know if his observations of the Quran are right or wronge)? And how long have you stayed on this Earth in terms of years? What sorrow for the servants. And which one of the messengers in the Quran do you believe? Isnt there more than one messenger mentioned in the Quran? So do you only accept one messenger mentioned in Quran and reject the others? Narrated and not narrated? Or only those narrated? You do agree that God is and will be witness between us? Why wish me well if you think im a false messenger? You say that you may or may not be right in your observations about the Quran. Well why should anyone listen to you or follow you then! If you dont know of you right or wronge? Why should I compromise wit you when you do not have certainty and are doubtful and I am on a clarity from my Lord? Then you would turn me into a rejecter-like you- after my belief! This is like the devil how he tells the human " Disbelieve" , then soon as he disbelieves, he says" I am innocent from what you do. I disown you. I fear God." And so what? So what if I never stop claiming to be Gods messenger and striving in His cause? And so what if I think the Quran has been inspired to me or that God is speaking of me ( A.D.W) in the Quran? What greater cost do I pay in my larger knowleadge or understaning? And faith and love?
Some of us have been given understanding, and some not. And some allitle more than others. And to try to tell people that our interpretation or understanding is better than others and that they need to follow us does not contradict the Quran, as mentioned before. You are not the first! Nor are you and the other rejecters anybetter than the ones from before. Your rejection will not be tolerated whatsoever with me. And no, my name ( Anthony Deshawn Wallace) is not written in Quran;o.k.? Ironacly and on the contrary, if you obey God and His messenger ,you all would not be going against the very Quran that you claim to follow. I do agree that me and others should not rely on you, but to seek guidance from God.
The truth is from God. That is " all" truth. I rest my faith in God alone. You speak of it as its just a book 1400 years old;while you have remained on the Earth for very little if you know. You have it all backwards,TheAlinatore. People like me who believe in God and His messengers and His words only increase your misguidance as it appears to me. And also as you claim to know how I think. I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord. Miserable is how you judge. Among us are those who submitted and the compromisers. As for those who submitted, they have sought what is corrct. And as for the compromisers, they are fuel for the Fire. God is more worthy to be followed. You have rejected Gods messenger ( me). You have rejected Muhamad. You have rejected Gods message. You have compomised wit one who claims our Lords revelations false and also deny and distort His revelations and deny the angels and the Fire of Hell. I am innocent from what you do. For the guidance is Gods guidance. And Alinatore, God alone is enuff for you, if you truly believe. Glory be to our God. God is enuff for me, there is no god but He, in Him I place my trust, and He is the Lord of the Great Throne. And thanks for the well wishen. You know that means if Gods judgment is in my favor- then you will lose? God is enuff as a witness. Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds.
Bring your proof that Gos was not " speaking of me" in Quran. And bring forth your witnesses who bear witness that God has forbidden my "messengership." Show me were denyin "me" ( the one who proclaimed " I am Gods messenger to you. Be aware of God and obey me. Serve God and avoid evil. ect...), isnt denyin the one mentioned in Quran or Gods messenger. You should just be paitient. And follow only the path of those who have sought God. And follow those who do not ask you for a wage and are guided. Follow the best of what ihas been inspired to you from your Lord. And follow Gods path, the straight. And not the other paths lest they divert you from His path. And as said earlyer, ask those who recieved the reminder if you dont know. And continue to rely on God alone for your guidance, TheAlinatore. Continue to seek God Alone for guidance.
If you love God then follow me so God will love you and forgive your sins. If I stray then it is to my own loss. And if I am guided, then it is because of what my Lord has inspired to me. And He is the Hearer, Knower.
And please dont accuse me of tryin to pass my interpretation off on others;( As if its wrong to tell the truth). And I wont accuse you of doin it to me and those who follow me.
Anyone who knows me or who believes in my messanges or who has salated with me will tell you that I advocate seeking God alone for guidance,too. And God is enuff a witness. And we will not call besides God- the Lord any god. If we did it was in error.
Now do you have any questions about God or the Quran, or the Great Reminder, or Al-salat, or false prophets?
I do get around all this by " being" Gods messenger of course. peace
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Anthony Wallace, your questions/accusations are in normal font, and my responses in boldface...
Where was God not speacking of "me" in Quran? Can you show me the verses?
You are claiming to be a messenger, the messenger is spoken of in the Quran, and it is not you, it is Muhammad. FYI, too lazy to look up verses speaking of the messenger, but if you don't think the Quran is talking about you, then where is your basis (or rather, mis-basis) for claiming to be some divine messenger?
And can you show me where I claimed that a specific verse was specifically speaking of me and noone else? And of Muhammad specifically? Or can you show me were it is immposible for two or more people to share some of the same experiences?
b]If you claim to be a messenger, then the holy book you claim to be a messenger of HAS to speak of you. If you are not mentioned in the Quran (which you are not) then God/Quran does not support your claims.
They called Muhammad metally ill, and misguided too; so why should I care what you think ( especially someone who doesnt know if his observations of the Quran are right or wronge)?
Anthony, take psychology. Schizophrenics often think a specific text or television program is referring to them when, in fact, they are not. Some also think that God talks to them (I do believe He speaks to us each individually), but you take it to a whole new level by claiming to be chosen.
2.Someone who doesn't know if his observations are right or wrong??? I say that in true humbleness and so that others do not follow what I think, but instead think for themselves and allow God to guide them to His path! In my mind there is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that my views are correct (and completely work for me). I truly feel God's love, have seen countless miracles in my own life, and taste His grace on a daily basis. I am not so completely arrogant (or sick) as you to try to tell others my views are correct and should be followed, but instead let them figure it out for themselves!
And how long have you stayed on this Earth in terms of years?
Not sure if that was a rhetorical question, but if it wasn't, then 30.
And which one of the messengers in the Quran do you believe? Isnt there more than one messenger mentioned in the Quran? So do you only accept one messenger mentioned in Quran and reject the others?
- The ones spoken of in the Quran. 2. There are. 3. Yes, all others are irrelevant to me, I don't really care about them. I have the message of God alone, and do not need any human, messenger or otherwise to remember, obey, or pay homage to. The message is already here, thus the messengers are completely unimportant to me.
Narrated and not narrated? Or only those narrated? You do agree that God is and will be witness between us? Why wish me well if you think im a false messenger?
I don't even know what you are saying/asking in the first part, but the reason why I wish you well is because I truly feel sorry for you. I don't think you have evil intentions with claiming to be a messenger, but I believe you are either mentally ill, sickly misguided, or both. Since you intent is not bad, I feel sorry for you and hope God guides you. I don't really wish bad on anyone, actually.
You say that you may or may not be right in your observations about the Quran. Well why should anyone listen to you or follow you then!
If you dont know of you right or wronge? Why should I compromise wit you when you do not have certainty and are doubtful and I am on a clarity from my Lord?Read above Anthony, it is said in humbleness. I do 'know' my views are correct, but until I actually speak with God on the Day of Judgment, I cannot say YES, YES, YES, they are 100% correct so follow me. I NEVER said anyone should listen to me, where did I say this? It is good to learn from each other, but I ALWAYS stress to allow God to guide each of us, NOT to rely on others'.
Then you would turn me into a rejecter-like you- after my belief! This is like the devil how he tells the human " Disbelieve" , then soon as he disbelieves, he says" I am innocent from what you do. I disown you. I fear God." And so what? So what if I never stop claiming to be Gods messenger and striving in His cause? And so what if I think the Quran has been inspired to me or that God is speaking of me ( A.D.W) in the Quran? What greater cost do I pay in my larger knowleadge or understaning? And faith and love?
Satan instills fear in you Anthony, since he has already cause you to believe you are a divine messenger, you are afraid to take back such claims. Satan uses such scare tactics to divert you from the path of God/humbleness/righteousness. I am NOT a rejector, I love God with all my heart Anthony, I truly do. I only reject human beings, like you because you are not necessary. You do not lead me to God, nor teach me anything new. I submit to God 100%, and do so without you, or any other 'messenger' out there.
Some of us have been given understanding, and some not. And some allitle more than others. And to try to tell people that our interpretation or understanding is better than others and that they need to follow us does not contradict the Quran, as mentioned before. You are not the first! Nor are you and the other rejecters anybetter than the ones from before. Your rejection will not be tolerated whatsoever with me. And no, my name ( Anthony Deshawn Wallace) is not written in Quran;o.k.? Ironacly and on the contrary, if you obey God and His messenger ,you all would not be going against the very Quran that you claim to follow. I do agree that me and others should not rely on you, but to seek guidance from God.
Yes, and I believe I have been given understanding. Yes, it DOES contradict the Quran, it tells us many times not to rely on others (or our forefathers) for guidance, and it goes on to say that the ONLY one who guides is God. You say they should follow YOUR views because you are a messenger. This is blasphemy Anthony, God tells us NOT to follow people like you, but instead to seek guidance through Him alone. You have been deluded by Satan into thinking you are something that you are not, when in fact you are no better or more special than any one of us here. I'm sure it probably hurts to hear that, but you need to know. We are ALL equal, and it is God we submit to. You and your views are above no one Anthony.
The truth is from God. That is " all" truth. I rest my faith in God alone. You speak of it as its just a book 1400 years old;while you have remained on the Earth for very little if you know. You have it all backwards,TheAlinatore. People like me who believe in God and His messengers and His words only increase your misguidance as it appears to me.
How so? By shunning man and seeking God alone? Your getting a bit sunni-ish with such claims, Anthony. I DON'T CARE about His messengers, they are all gone. All I have is God's message, and THAT is what I follow. There is no need for you Anthony, I have God and His word.
And also as you claim to know how I think. I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord.
So you think, if you only knew who was inspiring you to make such claims Anthony, if you only knew...
Miserable is how you judge. Among us are those who submitted and the compromisers. As for those who submitted, they have sought what is corrct. And as for the compromisers, they are fuel for the Fire. God is more worthy to be followed. You have rejected Gods messenger ( me). You have rejected Muhamad. You have rejected Gods message.
Are you sick? Seriously? I follow the Quran and obey God alone, not you or any other false messenger out there. I don't reject Muhammad, I just don't worship him. I accept Muhammad's message (God, God, God) and reject him as an idol. I submit to God Anthony, not you. I love God Anthony, not you. I seek God Anthony, not you. Yes, I reject you and have no need for you, God is enough for me and shall be witness between us. I in no way, shape, or form reject his message, but believe in it and follow it to the best of my abilities. You are not part of that message and never will be. I feel bad for you Anthony, and think that you should focus on God alone. I bid you well, and hope you are able to find peace through our lord. peace
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Are you sick? Seriously? I follow the Quran and obey God alone, not you or any other false messenger out there. I don't reject Muhammad, I just don't worship him. I accept Muhammad's message (God, God, God) and reject him as an idol. I submit to God Anthony, not you. I love God Anthony, not you. I seek God Anthony, not you. Yes, I reject you and have no need for you, God is enough for me and shall be witness between us. I in no way, shape, or form reject his message, but believe in it and follow it to the best of my abilities. You are not part of that message and never will be. I feel bad for you Anthony, and think that you should focus on God alone. I bid you well, and hope you are able to find peace through our lord. peace
bravo
Anthony, do you expect us to believe every single person who says "I am a messenger" and if we don't we are rejectors/ disbelievers of them therefore we are rejectors/ disbelievers of God? How about those who claim they are messengers and are in fact mad?! Whether they are messengers or not, we have the Quran and only God will guide. Whether you are a messenger or not, let us focus on God alone, and you should too.
I think TheAlinatore said enough and I have nothing more to add.Peace
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Peace, I will get back later. Lord willin.................
645 Did the news not come to you of those who had rejected before? They had tasted the consequences of their decision and they incurred a painful retribution.
646 That was because their messengers came to them with clear proofs, but they said ?Shall mere human beings guide us?? So they rejected and turned away, and God had no need. And God is Rich, Praiseworthy. -
bravo
Anthony, do you expect us to believe every single person who says "I am a messenger" and if we don't we are rejectors/ disbelievers of them therefore we are rejectors/ disbelievers of God? How about those who claim they are messengers and are in fact mad?! Whether they are messengers or not, we have the Quran and only God will guide. Whether you are a messenger or not, let us focus on God alone, and you should too.
I think TheAlinatore said enough and I have nothing more to add.Peace
bravo
I can only agree.
@anthony
It doesnt matter how many verses you quote about kafirs - it doesnt change a thing about anyone who says you're not a messenger.
Peace
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Peace, I will get back later. Lord willin.................
645 Did the news not come to you of those who had rejected before? They had tasted the consequences of their decision and they incurred a painful retribution.
646 That was because their messengers came to them with clear proofs, but they said ?Shall mere human beings guide us?? So they rejected and turned away, and God had no need. And God is Rich, Praiseworthy.Where are your clear proofs then?