Wife Beating is a Therapy
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Peace all,
This is great, Huruf; thank you. But it still does not answer my question. This verse has been discussed so many times in the past and although most people seem to agree that "beating" is not the correct translation, the verse remains unchanged and no one has offered a new and complete translation of it. So the question remains What does it really mean? Huruf, if you (or anyone else here with knowledge of Classical Arabic) were given authority to rewrite (correctly translate) 434, how would you write it?
434
The phrase (waidriboohunna) is not literal for ?and abandon or leave them (F)? ? the phrase prior (waohjuroohunna) ?and abandon them (F)? in the place of lying down (beds)? means to desert them in the literal sense.To give/show or hit you (idriboohu) with another non literal example
4358
And they said "Are our gods better or He?" They did not give it (the objection) to you {daraboohu} except arguing, but they are a people disputing.Thus my rendition
434...and those whom (F) you fear their (F) quarrel, so advise them (F) and abandon them (F) in the place of lying down, and ignore/show them (F), so if they obeyed you, so do not oppress on them (F) a way, that God is high, mighty/great.
Example scenario
Wife goes out on a wild shopping spree, uses foul language on husband or whatever.
Husband tells her this behavior has stop and if she continues, deserts her in bed and by doing so ignores/shows or ?hits her? with his displeasure ? it is one continuous action which may last a day or weeks or longer. If they change be good, else divorce them in a nice manner?
2231 And if you divorced the women, so they reached their term, so hold them (F) with kindness or divorce them (F) with kindness, and do not hold them (F) harming to transgress, and who does that, so he had caused injustice (to) himself. And do not take God's verses mockingly, and remember God's blessing on you, and what He descended on you from The Book and the wisdom, He advises you with it, and fear and obey God, and know that God (is) with every thing knowledgeable.
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Peace all,
434
The phrase (waidriboohunna) is not literal for ?and abandon or leave them (F)? ? the phrase prior (waohjuroohunna) ?and abandon them (F)? in the place of lying down (beds)? means to desert them in the literal sense.To give/show or hit you (idriboohu) with another non literal example
4358
And they said "Are our gods better or He?" They did not give it (the objection) to you {daraboohu} except arguing, but they are a people disputing.Thus my rendition
434...and those whom (F) you fear their (F) quarrel, so advise them (F) and abandon them (F) in the place of lying down, and ignore/show them (F), so if they obeyed you, so do not oppress on them (F) a way, that God is high, mighty/great.
Example scenario
Wife goes out on a wild shopping spree, uses foul language on husband or whatever.
Husband tells her this behavior has stop and if she continues, deserts her in bed and by doing so ignores/shows or ?hits her? with his displeasure ? it is one continuous action which may last a day or weeks or longer. If they change be good, else divorce them in a nice manner?
2231 And if you divorced the women, so they reached their term, so hold them (F) with kindness or divorce them (F) with kindness, and do not hold them (F) harming to transgress, and who does that, so he had caused injustice (to) himself. And do not take God's verses mockingly, and remember God's blessing on you, and what He descended on you from The Book and the wisdom, He advises you with it, and fear and obey God, and know that God (is) with every thing knowledgeable.
Peace Eid
That is a good attempt.But your second example is not what you think.Look at one verse before.4357
(4357) And when the son of Mary was cited as an example, your people raised a clamour at it,4358 (435 saying, "Are our gods better, or is he?" *52 They have cited this example to you only in the spirit of dispute. The fact is that they are a quarrelsome people.
Regards
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Peace everyone,
One of the meanings given for DRB in Project Root List is "prevent/hinder". How about
434 Those who go on foot are to support those left behind by what God has bestowed on them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright women are dutiful; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those women from whom you fear their uprising, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and prevent/hinder them. If they respond to you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.
Take measures to prevent them/hinder them from disloyalty/uprising, for example by taking steps to remove the source/cause of their potential uprising/disloyalty etc. Prevent/hinder would be more inline with being pre-emptive. Just an idea.
Example scenario
Wife goes out on a wild shopping spree, uses foul language on husband.
Husband tells her this behavior has to stop and if she continues, deserts her in bed and prevents/hinders her from the wild shopping spree by cutting the resources and stops talking to her until she stops using the foul language etc. If she changes be good, else divorce her in a nice manner?
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That is a good attempt.But your second example is not what you think.Look at one verse before.
4357
(4357) And when the son of Mary was cited as an example, your people raised a clamour at it,4358 (435 saying, "Are our gods better, or is he?" *52 They have cited this example to you only in the spirit of dispute. The fact is that they are a quarrelsome people.
Regards
Peace Q_student,
Alright, so what's the difference in either example were sticks being used, slaps or punches being thrown?
434
Regards
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My attempt
4.34. The men are supporters/maintainers of the women on the basis and by the means with which God has given more to each with respect to the other and by means of what they spent of their money; and virtuous women are obedient to God, guardians/protectors to the unseen with what God guarded/protected. And as for those women you fear their rising up /disloyalty, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bed, and idriboo them. If they pay heed, then seek not against them a way; Truly, God is High, Great.
Comment
On the basis of each other reciprocal advantages, men are maintainers, women are guardians of what God means to be guarded.
Salaam
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My attempt
4.34. The men are supporters/maintainers of the women on the basis and by the means with which God has given more to each with respect to the other and by means of what they spent of their money; and virtuous women are obedient to God, guardians/protectors to the unseen with what God guarded/protected. And as for those women you fear their rising up /disloyalty, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bed, and idriboo them. If they pay heed, then seek not against them a way; Truly, God is High, Great.
Comment
On the basis of each other reciprocal advantages, men are maintainers, women are guardians of what God means to be guarded.
Salaam
so this is not about husband and/or wife?
and who is "YOU" in the verse?
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peace q_s, all,
would the correct translation therefore IYO be the following?
434 Men are the protectors/supporters of women. They shall take full care of women with what they spend of their wealth. God has made men to excel in some areas and women to excel in some areas. So, righteous women are obedient to God's Ordinances and guard the moral values even in privacy, the values that God has commanded to be guarded. If you experience ill-treatment from them, apprise them of possible consequences. Next, leave them in their resting places, but keep admonishing them with examples. If they pay heed to you, do not seek a way against them. God is Most High, Great.
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Up to that point I think the believers are being addressed.
It appears that the speech starts on general terms and then narrows to the married couple.
Please keep asking questions and even answering them. We need that.
Salaam
every single believer or believers with authority?
and exactly which part of the verse refers to the married couples?
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peace q_s, all,
would the correct translation therefore IYO be the following?
434 Men are the protectors/supporters of women. They shall take full care of women with what they spend of their wealth. God has made men to excel in some areas and women to excel in some areas. So, righteous women are obedient to God's Ordinances and guard the moral values even in privacy, the values that God has commanded to be guarded. If you experience ill-treatment from them, apprise them of possible consequences. Next, leave them in their resting places, but keep admonishing them with examples. If they pay heed to you, do not seek a way against them. God is Most High, Great.
You know, I am a translator by profession and while I appreciate the text you have put I think it does opt for an interpretation, against which I have absolutely nothing, except that it may close doors to other interpretations. It doesn't keep cose enough to the posibilities kept open by the original.
Posted by RasulHamsa
Insert Quote
Quote from huruf on Yesterday at 105625 PM
Up to that point I think the believers are being addressed.It appears that the speech starts on general terms and then narrows to the married couple.
Please keep asking questions and even answering them. We need that.
Salaam
every single believer or believers with authority?
and exactly which part of the verse refers to the married couples?
I think all believers in general. Have you seen something that would indicate it addresses particularly those in authority?
It might be understood that it is referring to married couples when it says "leave thim in their beds" (or de equivalent) and then in the next aya it is I think clearly referring to a breach within a couple.
Salaam
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Have you seen something that would indicate it addresses particularly those in authority?
yes if you read the next verse And if you fear a breach between the two then appoint judge from his people and a judge from her people; if they both desire agreement, Allah will effect harmony between them, surely Allah is Knowing, Aware.
who is that "YOU" again who fear a breach between the two and appoint the judges etc?
It might be understood that it is referring to married couples when it says "leave thim in their beds" (or de equivalent) and then in the next aya it is I think clearly referring to a breach within a couple.
yes if you read it with next verse that make sense.
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Peace everyone,
One of the meanings given for DRB in Project Root List is "prevent/hinder". How about
434 Those who go on foot are to support those left behind by what God has bestowed on them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright women are dutiful; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those women from whom you fear their uprising, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and prevent/hinder them. If they respond to you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.
Take measures to prevent them/hinder them from disloyalty/uprising, for example by taking steps to remove the source/cause of their potential uprising/disloyalty etc. Prevent/hinder would be more inline with being pre-emptive. Just an idea.
Example scenario
Wife goes out on a wild shopping spree, uses foul language on husband.
Husband tells her this behavior has to stop and if she continues, deserts her in bed and prevents/hinders her from the wild shopping spree by cutting the resources and stops talking to her until she stops using the foul language etc. If she changes be good, else divorce her in a nice manner?
DEar TS
It is highly acceptable translation provided the classical arabic allows this meaning. PRL is not authority. If you quote some classical arabic source like Lane or Lisaan ,Tajul aroos ,Sihaah Fil lugha, Misbahul munir, Ibne Durayd, Qamoos ul Muhit ,Tahdheebul Lugha, then it will be ok. Websites carry their own thought process.Even GA Pervaiz could not get rid of this meaning.He used soft word in exposition
34 As stated earlier, women own what they earn but due to biological reasons, they are incapacitated for considerable periods of time, to earn a living. Due to this fact it is obvious and natural that the responsibility for maintaining the family is vested in men. When women are given such protection then they must fulfill their functions as women faithfully and safeguard their potentialities.
If notwithstanding all this, those in authority apprehend defiance on the part of women with regards to the performance of their natural functions, they should, in order to correct such a behaviour, first admonish the women, then, if required, separate them temporarily from their husbands, or intern them, and finally, if necessary, punish them otherwise. Allah?s Laws must prevail. If they submit to them then seek no occasion against them.
Regards
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Even GA Pervaiz could not get rid of this meaning.He used soft word in exposition
Peace Q_student,
Parwez did manage to get rid of that meaning?
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_043.htm
And whenever Jesus son of Mary is mentioned by you with respect, your people (O Rasool) raise an outcry;
And say "It is strange that you condemn 'Shirk', preach ?Tauheed? and strongly oppose our deities; but at the same time you praise the deities of Christians. Do you mean that he is better than our deities?"
Their objection, however, is for the sake of creating a dispute only; and not for clearly understanding the point. In fact these people are contentious by nature. (They know very well that you condemn the Shirk of Christians as much as theirs; and that you respect God?s Rasool Jesus, who propagated ?Tauheed?.)
4358
434
...so advise them (F) and abandon them (F) in the place of lying down, and raise an outcry/objection on them (F)
Regards
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Peace Q_student,
Parwez did manage to get rid of that meaning?
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_043.htm
4358434
...so advise them (F) and abandon them (F) in the place of lying down, and raise an outcry/objection on them (F)
Regards
Peace
Where have taken his translation of 434.
Please go tohttp//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_004.htm
and Open verse number 34 explanation.
Regards
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There are some ladies whi beats their husbans on regular bases
Peace afridi220
Your absolutely right, although it is very uncommon, I only came across one in my whole life. I always say if you feel the need to beat wife or husband then do you really need to be with that person?
Peace
Hope
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I am often reminded of the following dialogue in 'The Matrix' when issues such as traditional understandings like this come up
Morpheus The Matrix is everywhere, it's all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo What truth?
Morpheus That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born into a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind.See http//mypercept.co.uk/DRB.html
The above article is one part of a bigger article I am currently writing. -
I have written an article on verse 434 of the Qur'an, a verse which has commonly been misinterpreted to justify violence against women. I have created a website to publish this article www.quranverse434.com
