Gelatin & Additives
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Dear Progressive
May I ask you how do you include "brain" in "meat". Brain is a different tissue than "flesh " which is muscular tissue.
Flesh i.e muscular tissue has the property to conctract.Have you ever seen brain "contracting and relaxing" like flesh ????
RegardsHe just replied in his earlier post that when presented to a person, he will surely ask what is it before he eats it... A logic which do not stand at all as the for someone to question or not lies 100% in the discretion of the person and is not a generality.
On the other hand, if we take the BRAIN to be among the entrails, then again, according to progressive, it becomes lawful to consume it as there is no TEXTUAL prohibition on the entrails of the pig...
@progressive.
How would you reconcile the verse on the LAHM TWARIYAN? The fish from rivers and seas... Its pointless to discuss the minute precision emplyed in the Quran as both me and you are convince on that. The point is reconciliating all the verses and harmonize them... If you can look again, that would be very good. We know that Allah does not lack words.. the work fish has been used in the Quran as HOOT... however, why did Allah used the word LAHM and not hoot?
To give you a clue, we do not get only fish from the sea but sea cucumbers as well...
The issue is a bit intriguing, however we can come to a concensus God willing...
Wassalaam
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He just replied in his earlier post that when presented to a person, he will surely ask what is it before he eats it... A logic which do not stand at all as the for someone to question or not lies 100% in the discretion of the person and is not a generality.
On the other hand, if we take the BRAIN to be among the entrails, then again, according to progressive, it becomes lawful to consume it as there is no TEXTUAL prohibition on the entrails of the pig...
@progressive.
How would you reconcile the verse on the LAHM TWARIYAN? The fish from rivers and seas... Its pointless to discuss the minute precision emplyed in the Quran as both me and you are convince on that. The point is reconciliating all the verses and harmonize them... If you can look again, that would be very good. We know that Allah does not lack words.. the work fish has been used in the Quran as HOOT... however, why did Allah used the word LAHM and not hoot?
To give you a clue, we do not get only fish from the sea but sea cucumbers as well...
The issue is a bit intriguing, however we can come to a concensus God willing...
Wassalaam
Peace
Brain cannot be included in flesh through any parameter.Embryologically ,Physiologically ,histologically,or Linguisitically ,the brain is a different thing from the flesh.
He should not put them together.
Regards -
He just replied in his earlier post that when presented to a person, he will surely ask what is it before he eats it... A logic which do not stand at all as the for someone to question or not lies 100% in the discretion of the person and is not a generality.
On the other hand, if we take the BRAIN to be among the entrails, then again, according to progressive, it becomes lawful to consume it as there is no TEXTUAL prohibition on the entrails of the pig...
@progressive.
How would you reconcile the verse on the LAHM TWARIYAN? The fish from rivers and seas... Its pointless to discuss the minute precision emplyed in the Quran as both me and you are convince on that. The point is reconciliating all the verses and harmonize them... If you can look again, that would be very good. We know that Allah does not lack words.. the work fish has been used in the Quran as HOOT... however, why did Allah used the word LAHM and not hoot?
To give you a clue, we do not get only fish from the sea but sea cucumbers as well...
The issue is a bit intriguing, however we can come to a concensus God willing...
Wassalaam
What's "lahm twariyan"? Which verse do you mean?
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What's "lahm twariyan"? Which verse do you mean?
Peace. Sorry for late reply and short on words. I am currently on mobile. You can find LAHM TWARIYAN mentioned in two verses of the quran at 1614 and 3512
To outline my point on this. We do not get only pure flesh that we eat from rivers and seas. I mean these animals also got entrails and so on. We do eat the eggs of fishes which are often found inside them. There is also the famous and well known CAVIAR! And its not flesh but the eggs which are found inside the fish. If LAHM TWARIYAN would mean only sure flesh and muscle tissue, then eggs, entrails etc would become unlawful for eating which is not the case.
May Allah guide us all.
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Peace. Sorry for late reply and short on words. I am currently on mobile. You can find LAHM TWARIYAN mentioned in two verses of the quran at 1614 and 3512
To outline my point on this. We do not get only pure flesh that we eat from rivers and seas. I mean these animals also got entrails and so on. We do eat the eggs of fishes which are often found inside them. There is also the famous and well known CAVIAR! And its not flesh but the eggs which are found inside the fish. If LAHM TWARIYAN would mean only sure flesh and muscle tissue, then eggs, entrails etc would become unlawful for eating which is not the case.
May Allah guide us all.
1614 Wahuwa allathee sakhkhara albahralita/kuloo minhu lahman tariyyan watastakhrijoominhu hilyatan talbasoonaha watara alfulkamawakhira feehi walitabtaghoo min fadlihiwalaAAallakum tashkuroona
1614 He is the One who committed the sea, that you may eat from it tender meat, and that you may extract from it pearls that you wear. You see the ships flowing through it, so that you may seek from His bounty, and that you may be thankful.
3512 Wama yastawee albahranihatha AAathbun furatun sa-ighun sharabuhuwahatha milhun ojajun wamin kullinta/kuloona lahman tariyyan watastakhrijoona hilyatantalbasoonaha watara alfulka feehi mawakhiralitabtaghoo min fadlihi walaAAallakum tashkuroona
3512 Nor are the two seas the same. One is fresh and palatable, good to drink, while the other is salty and bitter. From each of them you eat tender meat, and you extract jewelry to wear. You see the ships sailing through them, seeking His provisions; and perhaps you may be appreciative.
What you dont understand is that THRERE IS NO PROHIBITION IN THOSE VERSES. God says that we MAY/DO eat the flesh of fish. There is, however NO PROHIBITION. Therefore, it is unnecessary to meantion caviar.
The verses are totally different from 6145 where it says that the meat of pigs is PROHIBITED.
Peace
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Salam,
Gelatine made from bones and skins from animals are sterile because it is boiled in high temperature and are processed in factories to get those gelatine leaves or powder. You cannot get virus for eating gelatine but brains and flesh and blood from especially pig can contain viruses and worms etc.
Maria
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Salam,
Gelatine made from bones and skins from animals are sterile because it is boiled in high temperature and are processed in factories to get those gelatine leaves or powder. You cannot get virus for eating gelatine but brains and flesh and blood from especially pig can contain viruses and worms etc.
Maria
Peace,
What if pig flesh is boiled at the same high temperatures? Does it make it sterile?
God bless
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1614 Wahuwa allathee sakhkhara albahralita/kuloo minhu lahman tariyyan watastakhrijoominhu hilyatan talbasoonaha watara alfulkamawakhira feehi walitabtaghoo min fadlihiwalaAAallakum tashkuroona
1614 He is the One who committed the sea, that you may eat from it tender meat, and that you may extract from it pearls that you wear. You see the ships flowing through it, so that you may seek from His bounty, and that you may be thankful.
3512 Wama yastawee albahranihatha AAathbun furatun sa-ighun sharabuhuwahatha milhun ojajun wamin kullinta/kuloona lahman tariyyan watastakhrijoona hilyatantalbasoonaha watara alfulka feehi mawakhiralitabtaghoo min fadlihi walaAAallakum tashkuroona
3512 Nor are the two seas the same. One is fresh and palatable, good to drink, while the other is salty and bitter. From each of them you eat tender meat, and you extract jewelry to wear. You see the ships sailing through them, seeking His provisions; and perhaps you may be appreciative.
What you dont understand is that THRERE IS NO PROHIBITION IN THOSE VERSES. God says that we MAY/DO eat the flesh of fish. There is, however NO PROHIBITION. Therefore, it is unnecessary to meantion caviar.
The verses are totally different from 6145 where it says that the meat of pigs is PROHIBITED.
Peace
Any idea why Allah used the word LAHM and not the word HOOT which means fish?
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Probably because scallops are quite sweet and tender... crab and lobster meat too. Don't know about mussels, they seem icky.
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Peace
Brain cannot be included in flesh through any parameter.Embryologically ,Physiologically ,histologically,or Linguisitically ,the brain is a different thing from the flesh.
He should not put them together.
RegardsFlesh, as in muscle, is completely different from the brain, so I agree with you competely.
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Salaamun Alaykum,
This is indeed an interesting topic... So far we have to options before us
- The whole pig stuff as well as derivatives is haraam (my opinion)
- Only pure flesh/muscle tissue is haraam, the rest becomes automatically halaal like the fat,bones,brains, entrails etc...
I got a new point to add to my argument...
Let us look at this verse
6146 For those who are Jewish, We forbade all that have claws; and from the cattle and the sheep We forbade their fat except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone. That is a punishment for their rebellion, and We are truthful.
Pay special attention to the prohibition and how it is detailed...
Now let us look at the prior verse which talk about pig
6145 Say, "I do not find in what was revealed to me anything prohibited for any eater unless it is (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs (Lahm al khinzeer), for it is unclean, and (4) meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced to eat these without being malicious or deliberate, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
So, let us assume that bones or entrails were OK for us to consume, should not the prohibition be detailed the same way as it was done on the 6146?? For example Forbidden is the flesh of swine except those which are mixed with the bones and the entrails.
Because it is very obvious that there are pieces of flesh left overs stuck on the bones and the entrails which cannot be removed when doing a normal slaughtering and no especial machinery/process is involved.
The original poster does not seem to be interesting in the topic anymore )
Hope to hear back.
Allah knows best.
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6145 Say, "I do not find in what was revealed to me anything prohibited for any eater unless it is (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs (Lahm al khinzeer), for it is unclean, and (4) meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced to eat these without being malicious or deliberate, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Peace
Isn't 'laham' / flesh specific enough? If the whole pig was forbidden then there would be no need for the word 'laham'.
Here is what I wrote before...
Here God says "We forbade all that have claws", not the MEAT of those with claws. Meaning the whole of the animal is prohibited.
But when God tells us to not eat the flesh of the pig, He is being specific to the flesh. The same when He is prohibiting the fat of cattle and sheep to the Jews. Also, when prohibiting the fat, God further specifies what fat is OK.God bless
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Peace
Isn't 'laham' / flesh specific enough? If the whole pig was forbidden then there would be no need for the word 'laham'.
Here is what I wrote before...
Here God says "We forbade all that have claws", not the MEAT of those with claws. Meaning the whole of the animal is prohibited.
But when God tells us to not eat the flesh of the pig, He is being specific to the flesh. The same when He is prohibiting the fat of cattle and sheep to the Jews. Also, when prohibiting the fat, God further specifies what fat is OK.God bless
Read my earlier post again... God does not specify what Fat is ok, but He rather made it clear that he is making the task easy for the people, so that they do not get in lots of difficulties by trying to remove the fat stuck on the bones and entrails.
However, according to your logic...
Brains, entrails, bones, fat, gelatin of pigs are halaal... right?
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Salaamun Alaykum,
This is indeed an interesting topic... So far we have to options before us
- The whole pig stuff as well as derivatives is haraam (my opinion)
- Only pure flesh/muscle tissue is haraam, the rest becomes automatically halaal like the fat,bones,brains, entrails etc...
Dont agree with you.. you forgot my opinion, which is that the fat is OK but not the brain.
6145 Say, "I do not find in what was revealed to me anything prohibited for any eater unless it is (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs (Lahm al khinzeer), for it is unclean, and (4) meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced to eat these without being malicious or deliberate, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
So, let us assume that bones or entrails were OK for us to consume, should not the prohibition be detailed the same way as it was done on the 6146?? For example Forbidden is the flesh of swine except those which are mixed with the bones and the entrails.
Because it is very obvious that there are pieces of flesh left overs stuck on the bones and the entrails which cannot be removed when doing a normal slaughtering and no especial machinery/process is involved.
You see..that's my point. Since the flesh is attached we cannot eat it.
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Any idea why Allah used the word LAHM and not the word HOOT which means fish?
Why should God only say "fish"? There are also crabs and other things. Anyways, since sea game is not prohibited it is irrelevant. God is just clarifying that we MAY eat sea game.
BTW does "hoot" mean fish as in the species or fish as in little fishes (thuna, salmon, etc.) and not sharks?Peace
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Dont agree with you.. you forgot my opinion, which is that the fat is OK but not the brain.
You see..that's my point. Since the flesh is attached we cannot eat it.
I think we have an agreement on this finally... We can never be sure whether there is flesh residue with the fat etc... so that turns them doubtful and better to abstain.
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Read my earlier post again... God does not specify what Fat is ok, but He rather made it clear that he is making the task easy for the people, so that they do not get in lots of difficulties by trying to remove the fat stuck on the bones and entrails.
However, according to your logic...
Brains, entrails, bones, fat, gelatin of pigs are halaal... right?
Peace
I never thought of it that way BUT what I meant was that God is probably being specific when He said the LAHM/FLESH of pigs
Why not just 'pigs'?I cannot answer your question as I am not completely sure and hope that we can both learn from the discussion.
God bless
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Peace
I never thought of it that way BUT what I meant was that God is probably being specific when He said the LAHM/FLESH of pigs
Why not just 'pigs'?I cannot answer your question as I am not completely sure and hope that we can both learn from the discussion.
God bless
Peace
That was exactly the point of this discussion... However, seems we have already made out point and to get an idea, you will have to read the whole thread.
My opinion is nothing can be consumed from the pig as it may be potentially polluted by meat remnants. This is true for the derivatives as well.