Question for Sister Samia
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That is even better, because I have same understanding as well. Then first please settle this issue where would you put Jezm in your above classification? Would you place it with Harkats?
Badar
If you had the same understanding you wouldn't ask such a question jazm is not a sign, diacritical or not.
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Thanks again, but to remove any ambiguities in this discussion. Would you please name "the round" sign in the text in question. First one happens to be on second Lam and second one on Yaa.
Badar
I am not a kid in a kindergarten, and I hate to be tested.
What we are discussing has no effect on the words of God, which were revealed without these diacritical signs. By now you should have known what I think just as I know where your questions lead to, going around and around to say sukuun (or jazm, according to you) is the end of a word and the beginning of another. If you do not want to accept my understanding, fair enough. I am not taking yours, and it's fair enough, too.
Let's agree to disagree. -
No reason to be upset sister. I asked you a simple question please label, rounded marks in the text, put the definition on them; from the elegant write up of yours above. These marks that you know what they are, based on your knowledge. But you are free not to, I respect your freedom. I have never asked you to agree with me. It is purely an academic discussion; so far no personal opinions involved or are there?
Pecae,
Badar
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Dear and respected Sister Samia, I would never treat you with disrespect, so even do not imagine that. Final question in our discussion of, weather Jezm indicate end of a word or not? Do you consider Sibawayhi and his Al-Kitab as a respectable authority in Arabic grammar or not? My understanding is, when one says word Alkitab; more Arabs think of Sibawayhi's AlKitab, than real AlKitab.
Badar
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Fair enough dear sis, how would you identify the "round mark" on second Lam in red, of this construct and second one on Ya. Thanks
Badar
There is no such "round mark" anywhere on this word throughout in the Grand Qur'aan. Only on the second lam there is a jezm on it. The word which is placed in colour seems to be the Urdu version of Qur'aan.
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I have swiftly gone through first 100 Aa'ya'at of Chapter 2 and have noted that round mark only appears on the alif if it is at the end of a word, and it appears on waw in between in the word Aoulaika "these/they are". On no other word/consonant this sign appears. Pl throw some light on it.
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Sister Samia it appears, that you have choosen not to answer my question about Sibawayhi and his Al-Kitab. However, irrespective of your answer. His position as Arab Linguist and Grammarian is established and well know. One way of resolving a disagreement between educated people is to call upon witness of an authority. Hence, I call upon his AlKitab, to support my argument that "Jezm" indeed does indicate end of a word. Please see below, chapter 2 of AlKitab. This whole chapter is dedicated to markers of end of words.
http//www.jalt.net/jaltusr/CurrJournals/SaraJalt1.pdf
Peace.
Badar
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Hence, I call upon his AlKitab, to support my argument that "Jezm" indeed does indicate end of a word. Please see below, chapter 2 of AlKitab. This chapter is dedicated to markers of end of words.
http//www.jalt.net/jaltusr/CurrJournals/SaraJalt1.pdf
Peace.
Badar
I was hardly connected during the week-end.
Saying that "jazm" is a marker of end of words is not the same as saying it indicates the end of a word. Mmoreover, according to Sibawayh, (and it's well known), nouns are not subjecte to jazm. Also, jazm can be demonstrated in different ways, and not just a simple "sukuun" at the end of the word.
Three main points from the book of Sibaway which you quote a link of
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Pages 3738 jazm, raf3, nasb and jarr are all signs of "i3raab grammar", which is "removable", i.e not pemanent and is changed according to the function/position of the word (such as the end signs for a noun when it's direct object, indirect object or subject)and affects the end of words. Mirroring these four "channels" are waqf; damm; fat7 and kasr, which are signs of "binaa' built-ins", and are permanent example the preposition "min ", where the sukuun is permanent whatever the position of the preposition is.
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Pages 38-39 There's no "jarr/inclination" in a verb and there's no "jazm" for a noun.
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Pages 44-45 The sign of jazm for verbs conjugated to the plural masculin, the dual and the second person feminine is the removal of the "nuun". This is also the sign of "nasb". In other words, the "nuun" is the sign of "raf3" and its disappearance is an indication that the verb is either in a state of nasb or jazm.
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If I understand you correct. You are wondering about second Jezm on the word. It was a cut and paste from openburhan site, please check Sura 2
http//www.openburhan.com/Badar
I wondered about this
Thanks again, but to remove any ambiguities in this discussion. Would you please name "the round" sign in the text in question. First one happens to be on second Lam and second one on Yaa.
I find the original text like this where there is no "the round" sign.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.002b.gif -
which are signs of "binaa' built-ins", and are permanent example the preposition "min ", where the sukuun is permanent whatever the position of the preposition is
But Sister I find many places where there is no sign on "nun" of "min"
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.004.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.005.gif -
But Sister I find many places where there is no sign on "nun" of "min"
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.004.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.005.gifThe book in question is not the qur'aan but Sibawayh's. He mentiond prepositions and I just gave an example. I could have said "some pronouns" and here it is on this verse
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But Sister I find many places where there is no sign on "nun" of "min"
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.004.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.005.gifPeace
Regards