Gelatin & Additives
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6145 Say, "I do not find in what was revealed to me anything prohibited for any eater unless it is (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs (Lahm al khinzeer), for it is unclean, and (4) meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced to eat these without being malicious or deliberate, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Peace
Isn't 'laham' / flesh specific enough? If the whole pig was forbidden then there would be no need for the word 'laham'.
Here is what I wrote before...
Here God says "We forbade all that have claws", not the MEAT of those with claws. Meaning the whole of the animal is prohibited.
But when God tells us to not eat the flesh of the pig, He is being specific to the flesh. The same when He is prohibiting the fat of cattle and sheep to the Jews. Also, when prohibiting the fat, God further specifies what fat is OK.God bless
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Peace
Isn't 'laham' / flesh specific enough? If the whole pig was forbidden then there would be no need for the word 'laham'.
Here is what I wrote before...
Here God says "We forbade all that have claws", not the MEAT of those with claws. Meaning the whole of the animal is prohibited.
But when God tells us to not eat the flesh of the pig, He is being specific to the flesh. The same when He is prohibiting the fat of cattle and sheep to the Jews. Also, when prohibiting the fat, God further specifies what fat is OK.God bless
Read my earlier post again... God does not specify what Fat is ok, but He rather made it clear that he is making the task easy for the people, so that they do not get in lots of difficulties by trying to remove the fat stuck on the bones and entrails.
However, according to your logic...
Brains, entrails, bones, fat, gelatin of pigs are halaal... right?
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Salaamun Alaykum,
This is indeed an interesting topic... So far we have to options before us
- The whole pig stuff as well as derivatives is haraam (my opinion)
- Only pure flesh/muscle tissue is haraam, the rest becomes automatically halaal like the fat,bones,brains, entrails etc...
Dont agree with you.. you forgot my opinion, which is that the fat is OK but not the brain.
6145 Say, "I do not find in what was revealed to me anything prohibited for any eater unless it is (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs (Lahm al khinzeer), for it is unclean, and (4) meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced to eat these without being malicious or deliberate, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
So, let us assume that bones or entrails were OK for us to consume, should not the prohibition be detailed the same way as it was done on the 6146?? For example Forbidden is the flesh of swine except those which are mixed with the bones and the entrails.
Because it is very obvious that there are pieces of flesh left overs stuck on the bones and the entrails which cannot be removed when doing a normal slaughtering and no especial machinery/process is involved.
You see..that's my point. Since the flesh is attached we cannot eat it.
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Any idea why Allah used the word LAHM and not the word HOOT which means fish?
Why should God only say "fish"? There are also crabs and other things. Anyways, since sea game is not prohibited it is irrelevant. God is just clarifying that we MAY eat sea game.
BTW does "hoot" mean fish as in the species or fish as in little fishes (thuna, salmon, etc.) and not sharks?Peace
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Dont agree with you.. you forgot my opinion, which is that the fat is OK but not the brain.
You see..that's my point. Since the flesh is attached we cannot eat it.
I think we have an agreement on this finally... We can never be sure whether there is flesh residue with the fat etc... so that turns them doubtful and better to abstain.
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Read my earlier post again... God does not specify what Fat is ok, but He rather made it clear that he is making the task easy for the people, so that they do not get in lots of difficulties by trying to remove the fat stuck on the bones and entrails.
However, according to your logic...
Brains, entrails, bones, fat, gelatin of pigs are halaal... right?
Peace
I never thought of it that way BUT what I meant was that God is probably being specific when He said the LAHM/FLESH of pigs
Why not just 'pigs'?I cannot answer your question as I am not completely sure and hope that we can both learn from the discussion.
God bless
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Peace
I never thought of it that way BUT what I meant was that God is probably being specific when He said the LAHM/FLESH of pigs
Why not just 'pigs'?I cannot answer your question as I am not completely sure and hope that we can both learn from the discussion.
God bless
Peace
That was exactly the point of this discussion... However, seems we have already made out point and to get an idea, you will have to read the whole thread.
My opinion is nothing can be consumed from the pig as it may be potentially polluted by meat remnants. This is true for the derivatives as well.
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I think we have an agreement on this finally... We can never be sure whether there is flesh residue with the fat etc... so that turns them doubtful and better to abstain.
Yeah that makes sense.
So, if I understood you correctly, the flesh is both haram and harmful but the reason why the rest of the pig is also haram/ harmful is because it is attached to the flesh? -
I think we have an agreement on this finally... We can never be sure whether there is flesh residue with the fat etc... so that turns them doubtful and better to abstain.
I totally disagree. There is no meat in the fat. Go to google images and type in "lard".
There is meat on the bone so we better stay away from that. I will not change my position on this the fat of pigs is lawful. -
I totally disagree. There is no meat in the fat. Go to google images and type in "lard".
There is meat on the bone so we better stay away from that. I will not change my position on this the fat of pigs is lawful.There are several grades of lard. The finest is leaf lard, which comes from the area around the kidneys of the pig. Back lard is another high grade, while rendered fat from other parts of the pig is less desirable. To make lard, either a wet or dry rendering process is used. Wet lard is made by steaming or boiling fat. Since the fat is not water soluble, it will float to the top, and the cook can simply skim it off. Dry rendering uses a large pan and no water to heat the fat, allowing the cook to skim impurities away.
So how do we know if the FAT has not been polluted by being in contact with flesh remnants? The Quran made is clear that there are fat which are stuck to the bones, back and entrails. So how do we know from which part they took the fat to make the Lard? Lard is just a by-product of the pig.
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There are several grades of lard. The finest is leaf lard, which comes from the area around the kidneys of the pig. Back lard is another high grade, while rendered fat from other parts of the pig is less desirable. To make lard, either a wet or dry rendering process is used. Wet lard is made by steaming or boiling fat. Since the fat is not water soluble, it will float to the top, and the cook can simply skim it off. Dry rendering uses a large pan and no water to heat the fat, allowing the cook to skim impurities away.
So how do we know if the FAT has not been polluted by being in contact with flesh remnants? The Quran made is clear that there are fat which are stuck to the bones, back and entrails. So how do we know from which part they took the fat to make the Lard? Lard is just a by-product of the pig.
What if I have my own pig and I slaughter it. I take only the fat that is not in contact with the flesh. Would that be ok?
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There are several grades of lard. The finest is leaf lard, which comes from the area around the kidneys of the pig. Back lard is another high grade, while rendered fat from other parts of the pig is less desirable. To make lard, either a wet or dry rendering process is used. Wet lard is made by steaming or boiling fat. Since the fat is not water soluble, it will float to the top, and the cook can simply skim it off. Dry rendering uses a large pan and no water to heat the fat, allowing the cook to skim impurities away.
So how do we know if the FAT has not been polluted by being in contact with flesh remnants? The Quran made is clear that there are fat which are stuck to the bones, back and entrails. So how do we know from which part they took the fat to make the Lard? Lard is just a by-product of the pig.
When did the Quran say that the fat is not allowed to be in contact with the flesh?
How would you if the fat was in contact with the flesh or not when you buy (for example) a burger that was made with lard? You see..it's lawful. -
When did the Quran say that the fat is not allowed to be in contact with the flesh?
How would you if the fat was in contact with the flesh or not when you buy (for example) a burger that was made with lard? You see..it's lawful.Salaam
No... I do not see the FAT as lawful.
Look, consider this. There is no text which says that the fat is lawful or it should not contain pieces of flesh, even in a minute quantity ok... However, we need to use our mind and logic and we need to reconcile all the verses.
Look at the prohibition of the People of the Book again.
The verse make it clear that they can eat the fat that are attached to the bones, entrails and backs... Had not it been like this, those of the faithful among them would have starved themselves from any mean with the fear that there might be a piece(even very very small) of FAT which has remained attached to the flesh, entrails, bones etc and therefore they would NOT HAVE EATEN IT. Allah made it clear for them that there is no problem in eating the fat which are hard to remove from the bones, backs and entrails.
Now the part which concern us is the nature of the Fat as detailed in this verse.... This verse outline it clearly that fat by nature attached itself to all parts of the animal. So how would you know if there is not a piece, even a very very small piece of flesh has remained in the fat... We have not get the same detailed rules as the People of the Book got.... Like if there are small pieces of flesh which remains in the Fat then there is no problem eating it.
Also, you neglected the part on how LARD is obtained! Entrails and fatty parts of the animal is boiled for the LARD to come out and float on top of the water where it is collected.
As for the private slaughter you proposed, then you should take your injunction based on the Quran... I doubt someone will slaughter a pig just for the fat LOL.
Seems you do not want to leave the burger... however, for me it is disgusting.
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As for the private slaughter you proposed, then you should take your injunction based on the Quran... I doubt someone will slaughter a pig just for the fat LOL.
Peace
Why not? what if they need the heart for a transplant and thought that they might as well make use of the fat?
God bless
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Will the fat of the swine have germs? If so, which process makes the fat sterile? ;D
peace
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It is better to be sure than doubtful
Peace
Well said bravo bravo
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It is better to be sure than doubtful
Peace
Ok then... I think you should start working on it... and see how you can monitor all lard suppliers and manufacturer as well as pig butchering houses.... I am done on this issue. If something else comes to my mind, then will post back.
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Ok then... I think you should start working on it... and see how you can monitor all lard suppliers and manufacturer as well as pig butchering houses.... I am done on this issue. If something else comes to my mind, then will post back.
I don't mean the lard from suppliers/ manufacturers (as you never know what else is in there) but from my own pig. I am hoping to cut out the fat that isn't in contact with the flesh.