The quran is not sufficent!
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Don't look at me, I didn't say it!
I was on youtube looking at some videos giving good reasons for following the quran and good verses
supporting this.I came across this video.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWkL_h01fK8
Peace peace
Wow, weakest argument yet.
First, the Quran tells Muhammad not to elaborate on the verses of the Quran. I believe this is a given. Therefore, the quoted verse in this video somewhat distorts it from it's pure Arabic format.
Second, the hadithist used a hadith to support his argument that the hadith is necessary. Priceless.
The hadith itself is also retarded. What could have possibly been given to Muhammad, other than the Quran? The "sunna" or the "hadith?" rotfl rotfl rotfl aren't they one and the same? Hadithist say the sunna is from the hadith, yet they're two different things...I guess hadithists don't have brains after all.
Hadithists then claim it's the "sunna" he was given, knowing that the hadith wasn't produced until much later (some claim the hadith was preserved and protected like the Quran and is as old as the Quran. Yeah okay.) Alright, so God gave Muhammad the Final Testament...and the life practices of Muhammad...which include the way to take a sh1t and what to say to your wife during intercourse.
Basically, then, God states "I have sent down to you my revelation and..your individual hobbies and practices."
brickwall confused
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Salamun alaykum
I thought by now people would have realised that "The Hadiths" were invented to justify and legitimise the elevation of prophet Muhammad to a god and equal to Allah and even more than that . Have you forgotten already how the 'Muhammadan' sing out in unison whenever the prophet's name is mentioned ? But when Allah's name is mentioned , these people stay silent . Ever seen those Plaques of Allah and Muhammad hanging on muhammadan's homes , and the caligraphic ornaments with Allah and Muhammad together ?
The Qur'an is sufficient as we know and we should not call "dictionaries" and other resources for learning as extra Qur'anic , otherwise you'd have to refer to the computer and internet as extra-Qur'anic as well , then we are all back in the 7th century .
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace,
respectfully."Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which HADITH (narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statement, utterance, discourse, account, tale.......), besides this (Quran) do they believe in?" 7185
"Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless HADITH (narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statement, utterance, discourse, account, tale........), and thus divert others from the path of God without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution." 316
"God has revealed herein the BEST HADITH (narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statement, utterance, discourse, account, tale.....); a book that is consistent and points out both ways (to heaven and hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God's message. Such is God's guidance; he bestows it upon whomever He wills. As for those sent astray by God, nothing can guide them." 3923
"These are God's revelations (Quran) that we recite to you truthfully. In which HADITH (narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statement, utterance, discourse, account, tale...... ) other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 456
"Let them produce a HADITH (narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statement, utterance, discourse, account , tale......) like this (Quran) if they are truthful." 5234
"Therefore, let Me deal with those who reject this HADITH (narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statement, utterance, discourse, account, tale......)(Quran); we will lead them on whence they never perceive." 6844
"Which HADITH (narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statement, utterance, discourse, account, tale......) other than this do they uphold?" 7750
This actually happened to me few days ago i was talking to aguy that hadiths are not aprt of Islam and that The Quran is complete and clear and then he got up and said, no, The Quran is not fully detailed, you gotta go to hadiths and scholars anc check with them.
"And when our revelations (Quran) are recited to the one of them, he turns away in arrogance as if he never heard them, as if his ears are deaf. Promise him a painful retribution." 317
Glory be to our God.
Peace.Why is it that only some words have 10 different translation while the other words in a verse has only one?
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Salamun alaykum
I thought by now people would have realised that "The Hadiths" were invented to justify and legitimise the elevation of prophet Muhammad to a god and equal to Allah and even more than that . Have you forgotten already how the 'Muhammadan' sing out in unison whenever the prophet's name is mentioned ? But when Allah's name is mentioned , these people stay silent . Ever seen those Plaques of Allah and Muhammad hanging on muhammadan's homes , and the caligraphic ornaments with Allah and Muhammad together ?
The Qur'an is sufficient as we know and we should not call "dictionaries" and other resources for learning as extra Qur'anic , otherwise you'd have to refer to the computer and internet as extra-Qur'anic as well , then we are all back in the 7th century .
Peace
almarh0m
And I never thought of it that way, almarh0m. It is very scary indeed. People DO do this (and I hope you don't mind me saying do-do P). They honor the prophet whenever they hear his name, but not Allah! WTF is up with up with that **** anyway? FOR THE PAST 2 MONTHS I was beginning to feel like sallullahualaihywasallam was Muhammad's friggin last name. You couldn't simply say "Muhammad" in front of a hadithist without getting yelled at. You can't say Jesus sallullahualaihiwasallam to a hadithist without getting attacked/beheaded/stoned to death, but I'd rather take a beheading than the other two.
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Don't look at me, I didn't say it! o
I was on youtube looking at some videos giving good reasons for following the quran and good verses
supporting this.
I came across this video.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWkL_h01fK8
Peace peacePeace,
Respectfully.Something like The Quran?????
http//submission.org/had-corruption.html
Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.
"These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 456"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6114
"It (the Quran) is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he (Muhammad) uttered any other teachings, We would have grabbed him by the right, and We would have severed his Wateen (Major artery of the heart), none of you could have helped him." 6943-47
"Say (O Muhammad) what is of the greatest testimony? Say God is the witness between me and you, and this Quran has been inspired to me, that I may warn you and whomever it reaches" 619
"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Muslim)
Glory be to our God.
Peace. -
Salamun alaykum
I thought by now people would have realised that "The Hadiths" were invented to justify and legitimise the elevation of prophet Muhammad to a god and equal to Allah and even more than that . Have you forgotten already how the 'Muhammadan' sing out in unison whenever the prophet's name is mentioned ? But when Allah's name is mentioned , these people stay silent . Ever seen those Plaques of Allah and Muhammad hanging on muhammadan's homes , and the caligraphic ornaments with Allah and Muhammad together ?
The Qur'an is sufficient as we know and we should not call "dictionaries" and other resources for learning as extra Qur'anic , otherwise you'd have to refer to the computer and internet as extra-Qur'anic as well , then we are all back in the 7th century .
Peace
almarh0m
I don't believe Sunnis elevated Muhammad to a god. They elevated him above the other prophets and demoted the Koran. Their dogma is circulated through Muhammad and so they want to elevate him above any other prophet. They also portrayed Muhammad as a political leader who came to establish a theocracy. Thats basically wahat they are looking for, to establish a theocratic orthodoxy.
Orthodox
Adhering to the accepted or traditional and established faith, especially in religion.
Adhering to the Christian faith as expressed in the early Christian ecumenical creeds.
Orthodox
Of or relating to any of the churches or rites of the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Of or relating to Orthodox Judaism.
Adhering to what is commonly accepted, customary, or traditional an orthodox view of world affairs.Theocracy
A government ruled by or subject to religious authority.
A state so governed
Theocracy means literally ?the rule of God? and the term was invented by Josephus (ad 38-c. 100) to describe the ancient Hebrew constitution and the role of Mosaic law. However, if you do not literally believe that the law has been handed down by God on tablets of stone, it may be difficult to accept theocracies on their own terms. A more secular version of the meaning of theocracy is that it is priestly rule. Arguably, however, the more important distinction is between regimes that have religiously revealed laws or policies unchallengeable even by a popular majority or by an inherited monarch, and regimes that do not. (It should be noted that even such regimes which claim that their laws are divinely ordained and thus immutable do not make this claim in respect of all laws. For example, the Islamic Shari'a recognizes a category of positive law, the mubah, covering such matters as driving on the right, which are religiously neutralhttp//www.answers.com/topic/theocracy
To establish that you need to create a religious authority and because of the big divide and diversity in the Muslim world at the time of the Abbasids, the only charcted that everyone can agree with is Muhammad. Schacht says
The need of creating some kind of theoretical justification for what so far had been an instinctive reliance on the opinions of the majority, led, from the first decades of the second/eighth century onwards, to the living tradition being retrojected, and to its being ascribed to some of the great figures of the past. This process, too, began in Kufa, where the stage of doctrine achieved in the time of Hammad b. Abi Sulayman (d. I20/73 was attributed to Ibrahim al-Nakha'i (d. 95-6/7I3-I5). The Medinese followed suit and retrojected their own teaching to a number of ancient authorities who had died about the turn of the century, some of whom later became known as the 'seven jurists of Medina'. At the same time as the doctrine of the school of Kufa was retrospectively attributed to Ibrahim al-Nakha'i, a similar body of doctrine was directly connected with the very beginnings of Islam in Kufa by being attributed to Ibn Mas'ud, a Companion of the Prophet who had come to live in that city, and Ibrahim al-Nakha'i became the main transmitter of that body of doctrine, too. In the same way, other Companions of the Prophet became the eponyms of the schools of Medina and of Mecca. One further step in the search for a solid theoretical foundation of the doctrine of the ancient schools was taken in 'Iraq, very early in the second/eighth century, when the term ' Sunna of the Prophet ' was transferred from its political and theological into a legal context, and identified with the sunna, the ideal practice of the local community and the corresponding doctrine of its scholars. This term, which was taken over by the school of Syria, expressed the axiom that the practice of the Muslims derived from the practice of the Prophet, but it did not as yet imply the existence of positive information in the form of ' Traditions ' (Hadith), that the Prophet by his words or acts had in fact originated or approved any particular practice. It was not long before these Traditions, too, came into existence, and the persons who put them into circulation were the Traditionists.
The ancient schools of law themselves represented, in one aspect, an Islamic opposition to popular and administrative practice under the later Umayyads, and the opposition group which developed into the Traditionist movement emphasized this tendency. As long as a Companion of the Prophet had been the final authority for the doctrine of a school on a particular point, it was sufficient for a divergent doctrine to be put under the aegis of another Companion of equal or even higher authority, as happened in Kufa where all kinds of minority opinions were attributed to the Caliph 'Ali, who had made Kufa his capital. But after the general authority of the Prophet himself had been invoked by identifying the established doctrine with his sunna, a more specific reference to him was needed, and there appeared detailed statements or 'Traditions' which claimed to be the reports of ear- or eye-witnesses on the words or acts of the Prophet, handed down orally by an uninterrupted chain of trustworthy persons. Very soon the emphasis shifted from proposing certain opinions in opposition to the ancient schools to disseminating Traditions from the Prophet as such, and the movement of the Traditionists, which was to develop into a separate branch of Islamic religious learning, came into being. It was the main thesis of the Traditionists that formal Traditions from the Prophet superseded the living tradition of the school. The Traditionists existed in all great centres of Islam, where they formed groups in opposition to, but nevertheless in contact with, the local schools of law. Initially the ancient schools offered strong resistance to the disturbing element represented by the Traditions, but they had no real defence against their rising tide; they had to express their own doctrines in Traditions which allegedly went back to the Prophet, and to take increasing notice of the Traditions produced by their opponents. Finally the outlines and many details of Islamic law were cast into the form of Traditions from the Prophet. In this way, one of the greatest and most successful literary fictions came into being.
http//www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/schacht.html Good read
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I don't believe Sunnis elevated Muhammad to a god. They elevated him above the other prophets and demoted the Koran. Their dogma is circulated through Muhammad and so they want to elevate him above any other prophet.
Yes, he is definitely elevated above the other prophets, even though the Qur'an states there is no distinction between the prophets - some are elevated above others but only Allah knows who that is. But if you say that to a Sunni Muslim they will get very angry and say that's wrong....
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Salamun alaykum
" Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe " ( 2956 ) .
Obviously it is not sufficient for "The Muhammadans" .
Peace
almarh0m
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And I never thought of it that way, almarh0m. It is very scary indeed. People DO do this (and I hope you don't mind me saying do-do ). They honor the prophet whenever they hear his name, but not Allah! WTF is up with up with that **** anyway? FOR THE PAST 2 MONTHS I was beginning to feel like sallullahualaihywasallam was Muhammad's friggin last name. You couldn't simply say "Muhammad" in front of a hadithist without getting yelled at. You can't say Jesus sallullahualaihiwasallam to a hadithist without getting attacked/beheaded/stoned to death, but I'd rather take a beheading than the other two.
Peace,
Respectfully.I know all about this, i've seen this in the past and i'm witnessing it these days in London. I'm afraid that satan has been recruiting people faster in the 20th and 21st century then ever before put together.
I'm afraid to even say prophet Muhammad because i feel like a stone will find its way into my head or a plane might land on top of me. That would really ruin my day. hypno
Peace.
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or you mght fly one through a building LOL laugh
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But you follow hadeeths, right?
how would you study law just by reading books without consulting who wrote the book and who it was sent with
thus the Quran is sufficient, its just that you cannot interprete the quran yourself without looking at the circumstances surrounding the comming down of various ayah; this you can only do my reading the conplilation of the words of who it was sent with
hope i have not boored you handshake -
or you mght fly one through a building LOL laugh
Peace,
Respectfully.Muslims did not do 9_11 job, that was done by George W. Bush and the whole world knows it by now.
There were explosives planted in both Twin Towers, planes sent rockets into them before hitting them and WTC went down easily because it was classic demolition style - says the whole world.Pentagon just exploded because a rocket was sent into it, not a Boein 747. Have you seen Boeing 747? I flew with one of them, those things are huge.
The pennsylvania - well, no plane landed there. They just made a hole and said Muslims did this. Did what?
Peace.
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how would you study law just by reading books without consulting who wrote the book and who it was sent with
thus the Quran is sufficient, its just that you cannot interprete the quran yourself without looking at the circumstances surrounding the comming down of various ayah; this you can only do my reading the conplilation of the words of who it was sent with
hope i have not boored you handshakePeace,
Respectfully.When you study The Law, you read the books, then you go to court and practice it. Who cares who wrote it? If the book is a lie, you'll know it - when they kick you out of the court, you'll know that you said something that made them upset or angry, means that your book is not good. Go back and find another book, right?
The Quran is sufficient. God says it is fully detailed. Not just detailed, fully detailed.
It doesn't matter which ayah came down first, which came third, which was last and wheremadinah or Makkah or Syria or Spain. The main and the most important thing is you must follow it. If God says do not kill, then do not kill.
If The God says do good, you don't say, but what is good and how do i do it? You know, i know, they know, we all know what good deeds are and how they are done, nobody is stupid here, we are all very smart. How many cell phones are being sold every day? Countless. If you know how to play games and watch movies and read and build a car, then you surely know how to buy a sandwich to a homeless or invite him or her for a sleepover and a shower, or how to buy them clothes or smile to people.Tell me then which verse in The Quran is it that you don't understand and that you need some "scholar" or "imam" to translate or interpret it for you? Tell me which ayat?
Peace.
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nsw you have no sence of humour. not may do these days, sad. You cannot even have a laugh these days they say laughter is the medicine for the soul. so many people take life too dam seriously these day. MMMM ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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nsw you have no sence of humour. not may do these days, sad. You cannot even have a laugh these days they say laughter is the medicine for the soul. so many people take life too dam seriously these day. MMMM ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Yeah because comparing Alen to a terrorist is soooooooo funny! rotfl
Offending people is such a good medicine for my soul and that will get me to heaven angel -
I thought it was funny. LOL maybe it is a sick sence of humour but hey I had a laugh. ;D