Beating wife theory is negated by Qur'aan=4:34
-
peace QS,
Why do you ignore my question? Is it because it exposes your views to be false?
I assume the example you brought, as explained by sister Samia, is the best example you have of drb meaning strike without mentioning anything else (e.g., with what, where, how etc)? In this example it seems to imply killed. Therefore, it is not good evidence, it is fairly weak.
I think it is becoming clear why articles promoting "beat or strike" present very little information from Classical Arabic sources. It is clear that "beat" is an interpretation, at the very most it can be translated as "strike" but as we know this literally makes little sense (e.g. strike to kill, or strike once), hence they are forced to use other words, even though they do not exist as meanings in Classical Arabic, e.g. beat, punish etc. What is also becoming clear is that those who promote such a view are almost forced to due to the existance of Hadith on this topic. If they reject the "beat" meaning, this will force them to reject their Hadith, which they are unwilling to do.
-
Peace
004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).Regards
What's the need for (lightly) between brackets? Because he knows very well what "dharaba" alone means. Could as well translate it as "kill them softly".
You do not have a mind of your own? Just quote hadith through others, and quote others who use hadith?
This verse showed your true colours. -
peace QS,
Why do you ignore my question? Is it because it exposes your views to be false?
I assume the example you brought, as explained by sister Samia, is the best example you have of drb meaning strike without mentioning anything else (e.g., with what, where, how etc)? In this example it seems to imply killed. Therefore, it is not good evidence, it is fairly weak.
I think it is becoming clear why articles promoting "beat or strike" present very little information from Classical Arabic sources. It is clear that "beat" is an interpretation, at the very most it can be translated as "strike" but as we know this literally makes little sense (e.g. strike to kill, or strike once), hence they are forced to use other words, even though they do not exist as meanings in Classical Arabic, e.g. beat, punish etc. What is also becoming clear is that those who promote such a view are almost forced to due to the existance of Hadith on this topic. If they reject the "beat" meaning, this will force them to reject their Hadith, which they are unwilling to do.
Peace
Please consult Lane's Lexicon ,the very first entery in the start of the word "dharaba".
Regards -
Peace
Please consult Lane's Lexicon ,the very first entery in the start of the word "dharaba".
Regardspeace QS,
Since I pointed it out exactly for you, please point it out exactly for me. Link to pdf page and tell me where, so there is no confusion.
Thanks.
-
What's the need for (lightly) between brackets? Because he knows very well what "dharaba" alone means. Could as well translate it as "kill them softly".
You do not have a mind of your own? Just quote hadith through others, and quote others who use hadith?
This verse showed your true colours.Peace
- ( 1 / 1400
to beat, strike, hit; to knock, punch; to slap, flap; to tap
Regards
- ( 1 / 1400
-
I'm sorry, but I do not see the need for violence at all
No violence involved. There are so many meanings of "DaRaBa" which is the root of the word used in the verse.
-
peace QS,
Since I pointed it out exactly for you, please point it out exactly for me. Link to pdf page and tell me where, so there is no confusion.
Thanks.
Peace
Exactly from the very beginning from where the word "Dharaba" starts.
Page 1777 3rd Column
Regards -
Peace
- ( 1 / 1400
to beat, strike, hit; to knock, punch; to slap, flap; to tap
Regards
You are so helpless and bankrupt to search for a word from the qur'aan in al-Muhaddith dictionary. Who are you fooling? Why don't you search it directly in Webster, Hans Wehr or al-Mawrid? These three dictionaries, among other technical ones, are referred to in this only online dictionary! It's a contemporary dictionary, and it even says that its files have not been verified against the original contents in other books/dictionaries!
You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to cheat the others just because you do not want to admit to your ignorance.
- ( 1 / 1400
-
Yes, it says "beat", but is there an example of it being used in a sentence without saying what/where/how/etc. Is the example you gave earlier (shown below) the only example you could find?
You are right. In Grand Qur'aan there is no such sentence, in all 58 occurences of words made from this Root.
-
You are right. In Grand Qur'aan there is no such sentence, in all 58 occurences of words made from this Root.
Not because it is used once does that mean it must have a derivative meaning. It could be used once with a unique meaning.
The problem here is that the word 'idribuhum', with the word 'ihjuruhuna' and '3izohuna' just before it, makes it most probably a corporeal punishemnt and therefore NOT
-
darb el amthal which is covered by the word 'admonish them'.
-
darb 3anhom ie. to leave because that is covered by the word 'ihjuruhuna- leave them'.
So it is natural to say 'idribuhuna' means beat becaue you are narrowed to this meaning and not because you are evil and want to beat the hell out of your wife.
Peace,
Rami
-
-
peace,
Yes, it says "beat", but is there an example of it being used in a sentence without saying what/where/how/etc. Is the example you gave earlier (shown below) the only example you could find?
It is a very simple question I am asking you.
Peace
The answer is in the example which I quoted .Please translate it .
Would you put here what Lane's lexicon says about dharaba just I put them back in the post.Just first two or three sentences.
Regards -
Peace all,
And those (from) whom
you fear
so the treatment starts before nushuz or after it?
-
You are so helpless and bankrupt to search for a word from the qur'aan in al-Muhaddith dictionary. Who are you fooling? Why don't you search it directly in Webster, Hans Wehr or al-Mawrid? These three dictionaries, among other technical ones, are referred to in this only online dictionary! It's a contemporary dictionary, and it even says that its files have not been verified against the original contents in other books/dictionaries!
You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to cheat the others just because you do not want to admit to your ignorance.
Peace
Al-Mawrid Page 710 19th Edition
Under "Dharaba" it has also given the meaning of "to tap".
Regards -
I read bits of it. but show me a verse in the bible where it says for a husband to slap his wife? and I willturn away. come on somebody show me a verse that it says Husbands slap your wifes if she disobeys. if you cannot find one then it is mans theory not God's. Men who do this should be put behind bars, and he will probally get a bashing in prison 10 fold anyway now that is vengence oh and Vengence is from God too now that will be worse.
I will give you some sexist verses
"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says" (I Corinthians 14 34). "For a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man" (I Corinthians 116-9). "Let a women learn in silence with all submission. And do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless, she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love and holiness, with self-control" (I Timothy 211- 15).
-
Peace
Al-Mawrid Page 710 19th Edition
Under "Dharaba" it has also given the meaning of "to tap".
Regardswhatever
You are hopeless...
Of course you do not know - although I already mentioned it - that al Mawrid is one of the dictionaries " al Muhaddith" is based on.
These English/Arabic/English dictionaries are for contemporary translations; useless for old Arabic or original meanings.
Next time, since your intellect is deteriorating as I see, quote a colloquial Arabic dictionary, or even a news broadcaster. -
Peace Samia,
Is it possible that "idhriboohunna" in 434 can mean "prevent/hinder them" linguistically and contextually? Fear "nushuz" obviously means nushuz has not been committed yet and the remedies have to be pre-emptive. How can someone beat another for something that has not even been committed yet? Logically and contextually "prevent/hinder them" makes sense as a pre-emptive remedy for fear of nushuz.
If you fear your child will indulge in drugs then you should beat the child even before the child takes drugs. How nonsensical would that be. It will however make sense to prevent/hinder the child from doing drugs. 434 is similar in that nushuz is being feared and not actually committed yet.
-
Peace Samia,
Is it possible that "idhriboohunna" in 434 can mean "prevent/hinder them" linguistically and contextually? Fear "nushuz" obviously means nushuz has not been committed yet and the remedies have to be pre-emptive. How can someone beat another for something that has not even been committed yet? Logically and contextually "prevent/hinder them" makes sense as a pre-emptive remedy for fear of nushuz.
If you fear your child will indulge in drugs then you should beat the child even before the child takes drugs. How nonsensical would that be. It will however make sense to prevent/hinder the child from doing drugs. 434 is similar in that nushuz is being feared and not actually committed yet.
Interesting point, but what about the other methods already mentioned (ie. address the issue politely, etc.)?
Also, you say it means "prevent/hinder them" - how? from what?
I like the interpretation "admonish them with more examples/punish them otherwise, etc.""Seperate them" would only be possible in a polygamous marriage. "Seperate from them" would not make sense, since right after that it says "if they obey you, do not transgress/seek a way against them".
-
Peace all,
And those (from) whom
you fear
so the treatment starts before nushuz or after it?
Before the proposed actions is "Fa" which reflects the relationship of cause and effect. When there is cause and subsequent is the effect/result then in between "fa" is placed. And there is nothing of the sort what some call "pre-emptive". What is said is that whose "Nushooz" are making you fearful/are causing you fear then in that case do this and that.
And those wives whose untoward/inappropriate conduct is making/makes you fearful/afraid
then for this reason politely and lovingly advise such of them,
and distance/shift them away from yourselves inside the bed rooms
and you people make them surfaced/evident/move them out from the bed rooms .
The ONLY peculiar feature that makes the relations of wife and husband distinct from all other relationships is the fact known to everyone that both do sex in the bed room. But this is never pronounced orally that we or the husband never says orallay that I...... The moment wife is moved out of the bed room he is telling loudly without use of words that both are no more doing any sex, the primary distinction of their relationship. The next step advised to be taken also rebuts the theory of beating propounded by tradition/hadith mongers.
The by design/willfully breaking of sexual relationship by a husband is bound to eventually break the marriage, therefore, others are asked to intervene the moment a husband is moved out his wife from the bed room it is like announcing with the beat of durm that he is discontinued sexual relationship with her.
