Muslim scholar argues that 653 hadiths in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih are false
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No, they fear their own authority will erode. Without hadiths, there is no fiqh, without fiqh there is no clerics. Clerics, even more than Islamist parties, fear hadith erosion.
This is 100% correct.
In the hadith you can find that "Clerics" is the successor of Prophet or Prophethood!.
In the Quran, Clerichood / Clerical systems was discouraged (5727).If you're a cleric; losing your own authority thus followers will be your worst nightmare!
You will do anything to stop that from happening! Even murder!
That is also what happen to Jesus and John anyway... murdered by advice of the clerics...Salam / Peace
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Most of the things in hadhis are false...My most I mean about 85-90%
It is nearly impossible to statistically determine the probability of truth or falseness of a fact given in the hadiths.
Due to the mechanism to determine the truth / falseness is also improper and irrelevant.In Year 0 Steve said X = Y
In Year 200 Desmond claim he hear from John who claim he hear from Robert who claim he hear from Gerrard who claim he hear from Steve that Steve said X = Y.
In Year 200- Desmond is still alive
- John is still alive
- Robert has past away
- Gerrard has past away
- Steve has past away.
There are two things to validate here
- Whether Steve really said X = Y
- Most important whether X=Y is really True.
Objective no 1 is IMPOSSIBLE to validate due to
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Steve had past away..
The fact that Robert and Gerrard has past away is actually irrelevant.
Even if Robert and Gerrard are still alive, and it is directly validated that the statement that Desmond made is true and John, Robert and Gerrard really validate them. But John, Robert and Gerrard is not the subject to be validated. It is Steve's opinion. -
Even if Steve is still alive; and he really state that opinion; doesn't necessarily X=Y is actually true. Thus the mechanism of 'validation' above does not applicable for goal number 2.
To validate objective no 2, we have to provide 'good enough' empirical evidences to prove X = Y.
The same mechanism being applied on scientific society.For Example
It is claimed that Muhammad said "You must follow the directions of khulafa Ar-Rhasidin".
The statement above is impossible to be made by Muhammad; as khulafa Ar-Rhasidin is non-existent during his lifetime.Even if Muhammad really said those thing; the statement above need more clarifications as
- Who is khulafa Ar-Rashidin being mentioned?
- And specifically what are the directions that being made by khulafa Ar-Rashidin that need to be followed?
If the directions are true, sound, wise and good then we shall follow them!
If the directions are false, silly, bad and evil then we shall abandon them!
Having said that; to me the Hadith book really beneficial for us today to really dig into the history of what actually linger in the mind and heart of middle-east people in 800 AD. Thus most probably the hadith really true in that context. Those thing that being stated in the hadith, is actually what they believed! This is a 'rare gem' if you dig into Anthropology field. If somebody wrote the same materials on the rumours that linger within Japan society on 700 AD, that would also be a gem to gain insight of their culture at that time.
But most certainly it is not a proper-source to differentiate between what's good and what's evil or the source / guidance for our law and public policy.
Salam / Peace
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It is nearly impossible to statistically determine the probability of truth or falseness of a fact given in the hadiths.
Due to the mechanism to determine the truth / falseness is also improper and irrelevant.In Year 0 Steve said X = Y
In Year 200 Desmond claim he hear from John who claim he hear from Robert who claim he hear from Gerrard who claim he hear from Steve that Steve said X = Y.
In Year 200- Desmond is still alive
- John is still alive
- Robert has past away
- Gerrard has past away
- Steve has past away.
There are two things to validate here
- Whether Steve really said X = Y
- Most important whether X=Y is really True.
Objective no 1 is IMPOSSIBLE to validate due to
-
Steve had past away..
The fact that Robert and Gerrard has past away is actually irrelevant.
Even if Robert and Gerrard are still alive, and it is directly validated that the statement that Desmond made is true and John, Robert and Gerrard really validate them. But John, Robert and Gerrard is not the subject to be validated. It is Steve's opinion. -
Even if Steve is still alive; and he really state that opinion; doesn't necessarily X=Y is actually true. Thus the mechanism of 'validation' above does not applicable for goal number 2.
To validate objective no 2, we have to provide 'good enough' empirical evidences to prove X = Y.
The same mechanism being applied on scientific society.For Example
It is claimed that Muhammad said "You must follow the directions of khulafa Ar-Rhasidin".
The statement above is impossible to be made by Muhammad; as khulafa Ar-Rhasidin is non-existent during his lifetime.Even if Muhammad really said those thing; the statement above need more clarifications as
- Who is khulafa Ar-Rashidin being mentioned?
- And specifically what are the directions that being made by khulafa Ar-Rashidin that need to be followed?
If the directions are true, sound, wise and good then we shall follow them!
If the directions are false, silly, bad and evil then we shall abandon them!
Having said that; to me the Hadith book really beneficial for us today to really dig into the history of what actually linger in the mind and heart of middle-east people in 800 AD. Thus most probably the hadith really true in that context. Those thing that being stated in the hadith, is actually what they believed! This is a 'rare gem' if you dig into Anthropology field. If somebody wrote the same materials on the rumours that linger within Japan society on 700 AD, that would also be a gem to gain insight of their culture at that time.
But most certainly it is not a proper-source to differentiate between what's good and what's evil or the source / guidance for our law and public policy.
Salam / Peace
This is 100% correct.
In the hadith you can find that "Clerics" is the successor of Prophet or Prophethood!.
In the Quran, Clerichood / Clerical systems was discouraged (5727).If you're a cleric; losing your own authority thus followers will be your worst nightmare!
You will do anything to stop that from happening! Even murder!
That is also what happen to Jesus and John anyway... murdered by advice of the clerics...Salam / Peace
These are excellent points you bring up. I have noticed that many academics who tried to sift through the hadiths to arrange them in chronological order or try to seperate whats fact or fiction have failed. This is because it is impossible to know the origins of the hadith and to what extent its isnad is fabricated or accurate. Juynboll spent almost 40 years studying hadiths yet he in the end said that even Schacht's attempt to create a chronology of hadith emergence is not possible therefore agreeing with Goldziher's initial thesis that hadiths are a jungle of texts impossible to arrange.
I also agree that hadiths can give us a good example how the early Muslim communities and the ones after it understood issues but to try to arrange them as to which is a hadith from the prophet and which is hadith from the companions and which was spoken by someone else or even which was completely fabricated is impossible as of now.
As far as the clerics they remind me of the pharisees and their fear of Jesus
John 11 44-49 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man does many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
John 182-3 "Then Judas, having received a detachment of troops, and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns, torches, and weapons"
Mathew 12 10-15 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other. Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
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Muslim scholar argues that 653 hadiths in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are false
taken from
http//www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024226.phpOnly 653? Hopefully they will find more in the future.
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dismissing even one hadith at a time is good news, there would be better hope for the true qur'anic order to be set up.
True
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Peace,
Respectfully.I took the book sahih Bukhari and went through the pages that deal with performing ablution guess what? All of the hadith regarding ablution are wrong not only because they are opposing and want to fight The Quran ....
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the communion, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative.
But also because some of them are really insulting prophet Muhammad. Needless to say, all of them have at least one thing in common they are not sahih. I really don't see how sunnis don't see this.
Peace.
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You're talking about the chapter of ABLUTION? I say, who cares? There are hadith that are many times more serious (and horrendous) than any hadith about ablution (washing body parts) like doing a 9 year old and calling a black man "raisin head" rotfl among many other hadith that depict Muhammad as a merciless tyrant who slaughtered Jews on a whim and pimped 11 wives on a daily (nightly) basis. hypno
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Peace,
Respectfully.I took the book sahih Bukhari and went through the pages that deal with performing ablution guess what? All of the hadith regarding ablution are wrong not only because they are opposing and want to fight The Quran ....
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the communion, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative.
But also because some of them are really insulting prophet Muhammad. Needless to say, all of them have at least one thing in common they are not sahih. I really don't see how sunnis don't see this.
Peace.
They don?t want to see, they are control by Mr. >D the great. The MULLA
A sunny said to me i will follow what Mulla says whether it is in Quran or not brickwall -
They don?t want to see, they are control by Mr. >D the great. The MULLA
A sunny said to me i will follow what Mulla says whether it is in Quran or not brickwallPeace,
respectfully.A guy once told me to find myself an imam .... i am not gay but i looked at the guy and thought .... is it possible that he was banned from his own planet and got visa to enter Earth and work visa to enter UK? he must be lucky! Unlike Britney Spears who is REALLY Lucky! rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
These guys are crazy. Britney has a song about them ....Crazy!
That's why i like Beyonce, she sings about me I'm a Survivor,....Peace.
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Racism in Muslim. I know Al-Khidr will like this. laugh
Book 004, Number 1975
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported The sun eclipsed on one extremely hot day during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) prayed along with his Companions. He prolonged his qiyam (standing posture in prayer) till they (his Companions) began to fall down. He then observed a long ruku'. He raised his head (and stood up for long) and then observed a long ruku'. He then raised (his head and stood up) for a long time and then made two prostrations. He then stood up and did like this and thus he observed four ruku's and four prostrations (in two rak'ahs) and then said All these things were brought to me in which you will be made to enter. Paradise was brought to me till (I was so close to it) that if I (had intended) to pluck a bunch (of grapes) out of it. I would have got it, or he (the Holy Prophet) said I intended to get a bunch (out of that) but my hand could not reach it. Hell was also brought to me and I saw in it a woman belonging to the tribe of Israel who was tormented for a cat whom she had tied, but did not give it food nor set it free to eat the creatures of the earth; and I saw Abu Thumama 'Amr b. Malik who was dragging his intestines in Hell. They (the Arabs) used to say that the sun and the moon do not eclipse but on the death of some great person; but (in reality) both these (the sun and the moon) are among the signs of Allah which are shown to you; so when there is an eclipse, observe prayer till it (the sun or the moon) brightens. This hadith has been narrated by Hisham with the same chain of transmitters except this "I saw a dark woman with a tail stature and loud voice," but he made no mention of" from among Bani Israel".
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His brother Hassan formed the Muslim brotherhood. Jamal was always different since the 40s. He always called for the Islamic reformation and had views that were very liberal. The sad thing is he says in the 40s and 50s his views were accepted by a lot more people than now. He emerged after 9-11. This book will be very important
I look upon the Muslim Brotherhood with much suspicion as an organization created by those of gog magog.
It will be interesting to see what they have to say.
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Muslim scholar argues that 653 hadiths in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are false
taken from
http//www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024226.phpThe following quote comes to mind (from http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/trash.htm)
If any book contains a few lies (which we have more than just "few" examples), then, the endorsement of that book is not reliable. If you see dozens of repeated fabrications introduced as trustworthy (sahih) hadith, then, how can you still rely on other narration of the same book? (sic)