Is it possible to change the WAY in which one thinks?
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I think thinking and knowledge are different but they intertwine with each other. Let me think of an example.
It?s difficult to explain?. People ?think? differently and I don?t think it necessarily all links with knowledge but it does link with it. We?re all born with different temperaments and our personalities are shaped by it along with our environment and by knowledge gained. Our thinking affects our personalities don?t you think? Why are some people positive and some negative? Why do people get angry easier than others?
I think that our instinct has thoughts.. maybe that?s the wrong word but like we innately have passions which drive our thoughts by knowledge it changes them. If we choose to follow the knowledge.
Maybe I?m not making much sense but basically knowledge shapes our thoughts. And it can be defective it depends on the ?knowledge? you gain. You see I can?t know everything in the world but from what I do know I can judge from good and bad, and maybe later I gain more knowledge and learn that what I thought was good wasn?t really good or it might be good but something else is better.
I think our brains automatically process good from bad until we know otherwise. Maybe I will think stealing is good because I get a lot of material things and it makes me happy but then through knowledge I will realize, I?m violating someone?s right, I?m taking someone else?s assets and causing them grief, I?m making them bankrupt or whatever. I will conclude based on knowledge that stealing is bad but maybe I might still think it?s good because I get things? Maybe my intention is evil or I?m just self centered so that it wouldn?t matter what others felt. I think that goes back to thoughts/conscious?
Before I said I don?t think you can change the way we use our logic, but I take that back. I think we can to a certain degree. We can increase IQ and our reasoning but a lot of it has to do with experience, knowledge and willingness. Thing is I really believe that we?re influenced from ?knowledge? gained as a child or even through growing up even as adults. It?s like we have been conditioned for such a long time, how does one break away from it and say it is wrong, maybe it?s right but basically you?re in a position where you question everything.
?Quran how to guide?? what do you mean exactly? How to approach the Quran, how to understand it? I think you can have your own version of Quran how to guide, and I think another person will have theirs. Maybe then you can share information and see if they all work, maybe they do maybe they don?t. Then maybe you?d need to reform your guide..
so actually our thought processes are not defective but rather transform based on our current knowledge. it's only defective when we let our actions follow the wrong? our 'evil' desires?
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AQ=Al Quran
I agree that thinking and knowledge are connected. I did not mean to imply they are completely separate. Gaining/increasing knowledge can provide a feedback loop, of sorts, which can affect/shape our thinking.
I am not saying anything radical. I could argue AQ says the same thing, e.g. when it figuratively says "they are deaf, blind etc". We all know they have ears and eyes, yet they cannot hear or see etc. They have a defective filtering mechanism.
By a 'Quran How To Guide' I simply meant by using the extensive examples in AQ of reasoning, logic, deduction, logical arguments, how to react to information, fallacies, common pitfalls, barriers, bias, how to research/verify, data set, standards of evidence etc etc. There is tons of info on this in The Quran, in fact, I am currently reading a book which touches upon this. One could even argue, this type of content is even more important than AQ's actual "laws", because if you master this content then you can theoretically become AQ, as in its teachings become internalised so your thought process is AQ's thought process. Of course, this is perhaps the theoretical ideal, but probably impossible to acheive. I refer to this as the "hikma" component of AQ.
When I originally asked the question, I was in part wondering what info was out there regarding this, but also to plant a seed. A lot of my threads in which I ask an abstract question or float an idea are about this. Some subtle, some not so subtle. The most recent one being what came first revelation or revolution? which is semi-linked to what I said here.
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You can do this by hitting the "zone". We all experience the "zone", on those days where everything works in perfect harmony and your physical well being and even hand-eye coordination tends to be tip top for no discernable reason. The more in this zone you are, the higher the quality of insights you will have. Anything that enables one to transcend ego consciousness will bring one more into the zone.
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You can do this by hitting the "zone". We all experience the "zone", on those days where everything works in perfect harmony and your physical well being and even hand-eye coordination tends to be tip top for no discernable reason. The more in this zone you are, the higher the quality of insights you will have. Anything that enables one to transcend ego consciousness will bring one more into the zone.
Peace,
Respectfully.Oh, yes, i remember how to get into the "zone".
Try this, spend one night awake and do something slow. Don't fall asleep and then the following night, go to bed right after maghrib salah and then, wake up early, for fajr salah first, but after fajr salah, stay awake and don't go back to sleep. Wait and witness the sun coming and make yourself a cup of hot tea. I'm sure you'll experience it, God willing. The calmness, the peace, the joy, watch the sun come up, listen to the silence, if you can, if you don't live in Las vegas,....enjoy.Peace.
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Peace,
Respectfully.Oh, yes, i remember how to get into the "zone".
Try this, spend one night awake and do something slow. Don't fall asleep and then the following night, go to bed right after maghrib salah and then, wake up early, for fajr salah first, but after fajr salah, stay awake and don't go back to sleep. Wait and witness the sun coming and make yourself a cup of hot tea. I'm sure you'll experience it, God willing. The calmness, the peace, the joy, watch the sun come up, listen to the silence, if you can, if you don't live in Las vegas,....enjoy.Peace.
Thanks, I will enjoy!
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Wakas the book looks interesting i clicked onto it i'm no amazon member but it had a lil excerpt
?When God created Adam, he put human being in a unique relation to himself. He voluntarily limited his own absolute freedom to act upon his creatures in ways they could not foresee; in return they chose to acknowledge his power ? and despite their own fallibility ? accept the trust (al-amana) that the heavens and the earth had refused (3372).?
I really don?t get that. Why would the author claim God intentionally limited his freedom? Or maybe I got it wrong.. but i just found it odd.
you could have a Quran how to guide on reasoning, logic, deduction etc. do you think it would be specific enough for your purpose? but sure it's possible.
OPF i'm not sure if i've been in the "zone" but what does ego consciousness have to do with physical well being and eye hand coordination / i think the zone might be about your physical and psychological well being.
seeing the sun rise is beautiful Alen it's generally quiet that time and i wish it was as simple as don't go to sleep or go to sleep at a specific time. i can never fall asleep when i want to.
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?When God created Adam, he put human being in a unique relation to himself. He voluntarily limited his own absolute freedom to act upon his creatures in ways they could not foresee; in return they chose to acknowledge his power ? and despite their own fallibility ? accept the trust (al-amana) that the heavens and the earth had refused (3372).?
i also don't get it! peace
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Are you referring to state of 'flow'? Sounds like 'flow' but it has nothing to do with increasing IQ. You get there when you concentrate on your task at hand and don't force anything. You can get into 'flow' even with noise and crazy people around you if you hit the right conditions. It's not really a state of peace and serenity. The best description I can come up with is it feels like "meditating while doing something instead of sitting on the floor with your eyes closed". For example, I've gotten into states of 'flow' many times while doing parkour, performing, playing rugby etc.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
I wouldn't recommend taking on too many things at one time. You're more likely to be inefficient.
http//www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-myth-of-multitasking
http//www.amazon.com/Myth-Multitasking-Doing-Gets-Nothing/dp/0470372257I used to read 4 books while feeding my brain with more random information from the Internet. Did me no good. If anything, I became an information addict though I didn't retain all the information. If you can write a story with one hand while doing high-level mathematics with another, it's possible you can juggle multi-tasks very well.
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Peace all,
Cultures, as it is understood in modern times, are the patterns of behaviour and thinking that people living in social groups learn, create, and share. Culture distinguishes one human group from others and it also distinguishes humans from other animals.
A people?s culture includes their beliefs, rules of behaviour, language, rituals, art and technology, styles of dress, ways of producing and cooking food, religion, political, education and economic systems.People are not born with culture; they have to learn it. For instance, people must learn to speak and understand a language and to abide by the rules of a society.
(7
1678 And God brought you out of your mothers? wombs while you knew nothing. And He made for you the hearing and the eyesight and the mind, perhaps you would be thankful.Enculturation is a long process. Just learning the intricacies of a human language, a major part of enculturation, takes many years. Families commonly provide protection and enculturation to children in the households of their birth for 15 years or more. Only at this point can children leave and establish their own households.
People might continue on the same predefined paths as set by their ancestors or evolve.(22)
4322 But they have said ?We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are following in their footsteps.?Factors related to what we are born as "gender, physical ability and colour", our parents, our culture and how evolved our societies are, are beyond our control.
The cultural factors are the most influential blocks of the making of our personalities, the society and what it has to offer for the future of its members such as safety, freedom, medical care, education and work opportunities "all part of its culture", the ability of our parents and the choices they make for us; In my view, we have no control over any of these factors at our early age, however, dependant on our evolvement at maturity and later age beyond the total influence of our inherited culture, we might be able to improve our perception of these factors and hence be able to control our reactions and to manipulate its effect on us and on our future generations.
Perhaps you, I and many others like us are examples of people who influenced their destiny by conscious decision to leave one culture to another. I think such decisions did not only improve the chances of better life, but more importantly the chances to brake free from the control of the inherited cultural religion and to destroy the pad-locks that is installed on the minds.
Some of our modern societies have introduced new educational systems that focus on the building blocks of human personality away from the known cultural controls and start the process at early age. In doing this these societies have taken over the enculturation process from the family and start the instillation of well defined, though not commonly accepted, patterns of behaviour and thinking in an effort to produce new generations with improved mental freedom as foundations for faster evolving cultures and societies.
In my view, The Holy Quran provides modern societies with guide lines toward implementing educational systems that can be built in a methodical and adaptable self evolving approach which focus on instilling self evolving cultures in the personalities of the new generations that in turn enable the new generations to step beyond their inherited culture and so on and on in order for humanity to continue their evolvement in this journey of life.
The following verses of the Holy Quran tell us that The God considers lack of evolvement and accepting what was as the only knowledge of truth is taking partners with him " ".
... (14) (15)
3114 ? You shall give thanks to me, and to your parents. To me is the final destiny.
3115 If they strive to make you take partners with me, that you have no knowledge of, do not obey them. But continue to treat them amicably in this world. You shall follow only the path of those who have sought me. Ultimately, you all return to me, and then I will inform you of everything you have done.(23) (24)
4323 And similarly, we did not send a Warner to a town, except its carefree ones said ?We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are being guided in their footsteps.?
4324 He said ?What if I brought to you better guidance than what you found your fathers upon?? They said ?We are disbelievers in that with which you have been sent.?There are people that insist on remaining as they were and will never evolve and there are people that continue to learn and evolve throughout their lifetimes.
Ps I am using the term Evolve to express the self improvements in human cultures as it get triggered by increased knowledge and better understanding in strive to reach the highest quality of life.
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Cultures do evolve. even now I see it.. like from my parents moving from their ?home? country to another. The other country has it?s cultures which gets adopted in our lives in some ways so the cultures mix creating a new culture. Most definitely the society we live in influences our personalities.
As we get older we can have influence over our culture but I wouldn?t say totally. Because whatever society you?re in there will be a culture in it which will direct you in some way be it subtle or not.
I don?t believe culture is bad, because everyone has it. It?s what makes society but what you adopt as your culture has links to your background, your surroundings and your choices based from them and new knowledge. And it can go both ways; improving or decreasing a better life.
Some modern societies have what? Never heard of such a thing, but anyway you should know children?s first teachers are their parents/caregivers. And the education at home is much more effective than just school. You can?t escape culture even if you want to.
I think these days at least I know at uni the stuff they teach us to teach kids is odd, well for example they want to rid all bias but bias exist with people no matter what. For example they want educators to tell children being gay is fine and uphold it (not exactly like that but they want to portray that message) they want them to be a clean state with no bias but that is just impossible.
I don?t believe culture is bad, what is bad is when culture impedes on your rights! What are your rights? Well the laws of Quran.
(4913)
We?re created in different cultures so we can know one another, learn from one another, improve etc..
The only problem is when people insist on remaining and staying the way they were?? if that staying is wrong if that staying is causing problems if that staying is oppression or a violation ,sure. Otherwise what bad is it? If I have kids inshallah I will insist that they learn Arabic, I don?t think that?s bad, and that?s part of my culture. Just an example. I?m sure there are bad things that people insist on like arranged marriages. But there is good and bad
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?When God created Adam, he put human being in a unique relation to himself. He voluntarily limited his own absolute freedom to act upon his creatures in ways they could not foresee; in return they chose to acknowledge his power ? and despite their own fallibility ? accept the trust (al-amana) that the heavens and the earth had refused (3372).?
I really don?t get that. Why would the author claim God intentionally limited his freedom? Or maybe I got it wrong.. but i just found it odd.
Peace Sarah, Munzir and all,
I have heard this logic used in support of arguments some people made to explain how humans have the freedom to choose when God has the advance knowledge of their choices before they make them.
In their arguments, those who use such logic, say the humans can truly practice their freedom of choice only if God voluntarily limited his own absolute freedom by choosing not to know humans' choices in advance.
I do not accept this logic. God is the all knower; he knows all that we show as well as all that we hide. God knows us inside out, he is our creator.
I think that our choices are probabilities in our time line; we make them according to our circumstance and knowledge. The God knows all the probabilities as he is the creator of them all; that is he knows all probabilities equally and not any of them in particular more than the rest.
However, I do not think it can be understood that God knows, literally that is, our choices before we make them. In his creation of the human race, creation here means a conditional "dependant on many factors" physical and mental self evolving design, God placed the mechanisms of locking points, the beyond return points, in the human minds. That is to say when a human being reaches a certain level of choices and ways of thinking, the human mind locks and looses control and therefore becomes incapable of making the right most obvious choices. These mechanisms enact Gods will when we go astray. The results are loss of guidance to the right path, loss of ability to repent; such mechanisms are triggered by humans' behaviors.
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By design, God guides who wills by his deeds and misguide who wills by his deeds when such deeds trigger the locking mechanisms.The story of Abu Lahab in verse 111 of the Quran shows very clearly how this man and his wife were beyond salvation "return" even after they were told of their awful destiny. Here the minds of those people reached the locking point, the beyond return or change point. This is of Gods knowledge and therefore he rendered his definite judgment unto them in the same verse; this is from God's complete knowledge of his design. We experience some of these locking points when we attempt to relief ourselves from some ideas or a vice or even bad habits.
1111 Condemned are the hands of the father of the flame; condemned indeed 2 His money will not avail him, nor will what he has earned 3 He will be sent to a flaming fire 4 And his wife who carries the logs 5 On her neck will be a rope of thorns.
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i guess that makes sense "In their arguments, those who use such logic, say the humans can truly practice their freedom of choice only if God voluntarily limited his own absolute freedom by choosing not to know humans' choices in advance"
i guess i never thought of it because i don't believe it.
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They say its easy to change what you think but not how you think. A person can be an fanatic fan of a football team and then switch to basketball and become a fanatic fan of a basketball team. He could also be a stamp collector but his fanaticism does not easily go away. A person can change what he thinks buts its harder to change how you think.
I have had to do that since i started studying the Koran more carefully. It takes time but you need to be willing to do so in the first place. How you think might be influenced by your perspectives in life or by your nature and personality.
But generally its easier to change what you think or believe but its harder to change how you go about believing things.
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Peace,
I think it is important for all of us to understand our cultural back ground without pride and bias, for only without pride and bias, we can see things for what they are. If our minds are not locked yet then we might have a chance to learn, understand and find the truth.
People who are born as Moslems and others who are interested in becoming Moslems must truly accept that only the Quran is the word of God, and it is the only source of Guidance and Knowledge that could be trusted. I think this is the only way to move toward unlocking more and more of our minds so that we might reach a status of definite awareness, Ilmulyaqeen " " in Arabic.
I think we must realize that it is one's self that leads to guidance or to misguidance by means of day to day practice of one's life. Following God's Guidance as it is revealed in the Quran is the super highway to him; however, small streets and side walks are there as well.
Sadly, on the subject of God's Guidance, I still see the traditional interpretation of the Quran finds its way as translation of the Quran; I will explore this issue in the following verses as translated in the Message 2nd edition.
1327
1327 And those who have rejected say ?If only a sign were sent down to him from his Lord!? Say ?God misguides whom He wishes and guides to Him whoever is repenting.?
1693
1693 And if God had wished, He would have made you one nation, but He misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And you will be asked about what you used to do.
358
358 As for he whose evil work is adorned so he sees it as being good; for God thus misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills; do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.- The insertion of the pronoun "He" with Capital H, as in the following extracts from above verses, God misguides whom He wills/wishes and He guides whom He wills/wishes made me ask the following questions
a. Why adding to Quran's words?
b. Are Quran's words not enough or not complete to produce clear meanings?
c. Is this a way to produce a different meaning?
D. Is this an error due to lack of hard work " " or some minds still have locks?- The second issue is the usage of whom which together with the insertion of the pronoun He produced a different meaning that supports the fatalistic views and contradicts God's will of free choices for humans.
The Arabic reading says "" God " / " misguides / guides " " who wishes/wills; God is the subject in God misguides/guides and the humans, since the verses are directed to them, are the subject in who wishes/wills. As you see the insertion of "He" has introduced a new subject "God" to replace the humans for wishes/wills and the "Whom" converted the true subject, humans, to an object for God's wishes/wills. Hence the new sentence "God misguides/guides whom He wishes/wills" has a completely different meaning from the sentence "God misguides/guides who wishes/wills".
The last sentence in each of the three verses and the first sentence in the 3rd verse support that the humans are the subject in who wishes/wills. Bold and underlined, these sentences indicate humans' deeds as the cause of misguidance and guidance.
1327
1327 And those who have rejected say ?If only a sign were sent down to him from his Lord!? Say ?God misguides whom He wishes and guides to Him whoever is repenting.?1693
1693 And if God had wished, He would have made you one nation, but He misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And you will be asked about what you used to do.358
358 As for he whose evil work is adorned so he sees it as being good; for God thus misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills; do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.Furthermore, God's Guidance came to us in forms of Revelations such as Old Testimony, New Testimony and The Quran, reveled to Human Messengers and Prophets. Read the following verses to see for yourself.
238
239
238 We said ?Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.?
239 And those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are the dwellers of Hell, in it they will abide.Finally, a misguided human is the one who drove his mind to the locking point by his deeds which gave full control of his mind to whatever satisfies his senses and needs "" and therefore became incapable of finding guidance similar to the man and his wife in verse 111.
On the other hand a guided human is the one who drove his mind toward unlocking level after level by controlling his deeds (and ء and following God's guidance as per revelations only so that he might reach definite awareness, Ilmulyaqeen " ". Only some humans " "from ancient generations and very little "" from later ones will reach the highest levels. Many more might reach moderate levels.
Those who remain neutral, the majority blind followers, will have no one but themselves to blame and hope for God's forgiveness if they made some good deeds.
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Ok Wakas
I read Ayman?s article on free choice and the trust.
"In their arguments, those who use such logic, say the humans can truly practice their freedom of choice only if God voluntarily limited his own absolute freedom by choosing not to know humans' choices in advance"
Based on this are you saying, God gave us that trust? I don?t know.
I think it?s worded wrongly the part in which it says ?God voluntarily limited his own absolute freedom.?
God gave us the trust in this dunya to serve him, I?m still confused about the trust, I?ll prob reread the article but basically we are the khalifa of God? On earth? So God is testing us with power (to be rulers on earth)? That?s the trust God gave us?? Well part of it?
Dunno that?s what I understood maybe there?s something more but it?s not getting into my skull.Yeh Bigmo I partly agree, I?m not sure if you can change the how. I mean how I think of Quran came about from what I believed based on knowledge. But ?how? I think on other things I think that?s just part personality and what I believe of things is well morphed through experience, knowledge, perceptions.
I think my mind is incompetent, thinking about this is doing my head in! ahh
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They say its easy to change what you think but not how you think. A person can be an fanatic fan of a football team and then switch to basketball and become a fanatic fan of a basketball team. He could also be a stamp collector but his fanaticism does not easily go away. A person can change what he thinks buts its harder to change how you think.
I have had to do that since i started studying the Koran more carefully. It takes time but you need to be willing to do so in the first place. How you think might be influenced by your perspectives in life or by your nature and personality.
But generally its easier to change what you think or believe but its harder to change how you go about believing things.
I tend to agree with this. But age and cercumstances can also change how you think. peace
